Why Dishonored 2 doesnot have corvo as sole protagonist?

[happyninja42]

If I may interject my opinion, it's kinda risky having Emily as an assassin, not for the hurr-durr reason, but because if it's not done well it will make her seem REALLY undeserving of the throne. If in any case you will murder or condemn to a fate worse than death someone who's crime was disagreeing with her than she'll be a monster to a sane player. If all the targets will be cartoonishly evil to justify their treatment than this will result in a shitty plot.

I also already call that in one of missions we'll find out what happened to lady Boyle.

In the first game corvo could either be a proper assassin, or a vicious murderer who made everything worse

I don't see why this game couldn't let you make bad choices as well

Because in the end he didn't strive for power, but vengeance and rescuing a person he loved. The problem is not with the bad choices (or the choices at all) but the idea of ruining a person for power and still remain likable in some capacity.

And yet you can still get a bad ending aptly called "high chaos" where an insane corvo absolutely murders and tortures everyone in his path.......to rescue a person he loved.

I don't see why deposed empress Emily can't wreck some havoc on her way back to the throne and still be as "likable" as batshit insane high chaos corvo was in the last game

Unless you hold women to a higher standard of "likable"

I'm not sure you can say Corvo was "likeable" in any chaos level, he was a silent protagonist. But I would say the difference in high/low Corvo is the difference between Anakin Skywalker going dark to be Vader, to save a woman he loves (in his own head anyway), and Luke Skywalker not carving a path through everyone in front of him, to save the people he loves (namely his sister).

As to the above comment about players would find a high chaos Emily to be a monster, well, considering the God of War 4 thread, apparently there is a large player base that absolutely love playing horrible monsters, and revel in it, so it's not like this would sour every player to the character.

Besides, you can always just not play her that way. I have no intention of playing Emily as an evil woman, but the fact that the game allows that style is fine by me. It's on the game code, so what? I won't play it, so it doesn't really matter.

 

[CaitSeith]

If I may interject my opinion, it's kinda risky having Emily as an assassin, not for the hurr-durr reason, but because if it's not done well it will make her seem REALLY undeserving of the throne. If in any case you will murder or condemn to a fate worse than death someone who's crime was disagreeing with her than she'll be a monster to a sane player. If all the targets will be cartoonishly evil to justify their treatment than this will result in a shitty plot.

I also already call that in one of missions we'll find out what happened to lady Boyle.

In the first game corvo could either be a proper assassin, or a vicious murderer who made everything worse

I don't see why this game couldn't let you make bad choices as well

Because in the end he didn't strive for power, but vengeance and rescuing a person he loved. The problem is not with the bad choices (or the choices at all) but the idea of ruining a person for power and still remain likable in some capacity.

And yet you can still get a bad ending aptly called "high chaos" where an insane corvo absolutely murders and tortures everyone in his path.......to rescue a person he loved.

I don't see why deposed empress Emily can't wreck some havoc on her way back to the throne and still be as "likable" as batshit insane high chaos corvo was in the last game

Unless you hold women to a higher standard of "likable"

Not really, it just that when you have murder for politics in a game, real world events kick in and it looks far worse.

It would be really interesting if they actually make references to real world events with those in-game murders.

 

[PapaGreg096]

If I may interject my opinion, it's kinda risky having Emily as an assassin, not for the hurr-durr reason, but because if it's not done well it will make her seem REALLY undeserving of the throne. If in any case you will murder or condemn to a fate worse than death someone who's crime was disagreeing with her than she'll be a monster to a sane player. If all the targets will be cartoonishly evil to justify their treatment than this will result in a shitty plot.

I also already call that in one of missions we'll find out what happened to lady Boyle.

Well not so much as disagreeing with her but more of the lines of making her public enemy

Also, assassinating would make it much harder for her to be supported by her people. Prowling and murder is looked down on. There's no way the rebels, if there are any who support her, would risk this identity getting out. There's no need for her to get her hands literally dirty.

Dude as long as Emily won't start a plague or make sure the common man gets a decent wage she could hang children just for making fun of her and the people would still support her

 

[Asita]

*Shrug* Why shouldn't it have two possible protagonists? The franchise has had one released game and one to-be-released game, so it's not exactly bucking a trend. Not every franchise has to have a singular central character which they follow across all the titles. The main Final Fantasy games have a different central cast each time, as does the Elder Scrolls series, Borderlands series, Bioshock series, Dragon Age series, Persona series, Dragon Quest series, Fire Emblem series, Disgaea series, the Assassin's Creed series (sorta)[footnote]This one's significantly iffier than the rest, but while Desmond was the nominal protagonist up until the end of AC3, in practice he and the Animus acted more as a vehicle to ease the audience into the roles of Altair, Ezio (who further complicated things by having two sequels of his own), Haytham, and Ratonhnhak?:ton rather than an actual focus character[/footnote], Silent Hill series...point being that there was no obligation to stick with Corvo and just Corvo. Hell, the DLC for Dishonored saw Daud as a focal charater, so adding to the central character roster certainly isn't out of left field, especially considering that the Outsider bestows his gifts on pretty much anyone who piques his interest.

 

[Mcgeezaks]

Another convenient answer. A bodiless voice that isn't actually a woman at all. Even better is that you get to tout your retro elitism on top of your sexism with that one.

Keep diggin Brain-Cell hahahaha.

Yeah I'm surprised that people still try to argue with him.

 

[Poetic Nova]

Well, someone is getting their panties in a twist because it doesn't just feature generic buff guy #121

 

[RedDeadFred]

Because not only does it make sense given the ending of the first game and their relationship, but it adds replay value. To be honest, it's simply more interesting in general. I don't really see how this can be taken as a bad thing. Sure, you could simply have the Outsider give Corvo more powers this time around, but that seems kind of cheap from a story telling perspective.

I don't see how anyone would think Emily couldn't become a murderous badass... Her father is a master assassin and after she saw what happened to her mother, it kind of stands to reason that she'd want to know how to protect herself. Hell, in the high chaos ending, she's already downright ruthless.

To be honest, if it weren't for who was making the thread, I'd seriously have thought this was parody.

Oh, hey B-Cell, did you know that whichever character you don't pick dies in the intro? I shall spare a thought for you as I pick Emily and watch boring and generic Corvo die a boring and generic death.

That's not actually confirmed though is it? The popular theory seems to be that one of them is imprisoned in the void by Delilah (or incapacitated in some other way). I wouldn't rule it out though and it would certainly be in keeping with how the first game starts.

 

[Elvis Starburst]

Is it to appease gaming feminist extremist to bring a female character as protagonist? who complain about gaming industry invaded by men? or some other reason?

Oh come the fuck on. Right off the bat. This isn't some feminist agenda propaganda. Corvo had his time, this game is about someone else.

I want my games to be badass. you know?

beside corvo is now voiced by one who voiced garrett from thief. it would be so much better to develop corvo as sole protagonist instead of making story about a princess emily.

Oh, we know. We know you do. We know you eat, breath, drink, piss and shit out BADASS every day you crazy gritty gruff male protagonist gravel gargling person. As for the second part... refer to the above. This game is about someone else. The creators of the game want to tell a different story. Sorry it terrifies you that a woman can be part of a game. But believe it or not, some of the best known games come from games with female protagonists. And I'm not just talking about the silent ones either, so don't list me the ones you can pretend are male because they never speak.

absolutely. emily is princess. its like cinderalla become badass warrior lol

Yup, cause women can be badass and kick people's teeth in just as well as a guy can, especially if the game is based around it. But nah, can't have the womenz fucking up our games and stealing them from us big men who piss testosterone.

Could you imagine 47 and diana bieng protagonist in Hitman rather than only 47? beacuse if arkane were developing hitman 15 years ago they would make sequel like that. they are even doing this to new Prey too as Morgan can be Male and female.

That'd be awesome to see. Why not give it a try? I can imagine 100 different ways a female hitman (Hitwoman?) could kill someone that a male one can't. Sitting at a bar, guy offers a drink and calls the bartender for one, and she sneaks something in there to kill him through planning before hand? That'd be loads of fun!

So, let's see... Feminism questioning? Check. Badass used at least once? Check. Dislike towards the womenz in our video gaems? Check and check.
Well, this checks out. It's a B-Cell thread alright. Filled with the same kind of stuff we come to expect from our resident old school elitist anti-feminist gravel gargler himself.
Move along, citizen

Edit: Thanks for the laugh MY FRRRRRRRRRRRRRIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEENNNNNNNNNNNNNNND

 

[JohnnyDelRay]

Guys, don't go too hard on him. I find his threads way too hilarious, forums have been a bit dull off and on lately, he brightens up my day and that's not even sarcasm.

OT: To be honest, just finding out that we would be able to play as Emily has re-ignited my interest in this game. I was ready to let Dishonored 2 slip off into the waves until I found out you could see the story from two different perspectives - chances are very high that I won't even be giving Corvo's story a go, since he wasn't the most interesting protagonist to begin with. Similar motives, different approaches, if they've actually put a lot of thought and effort into it, could be a very interesting game.

 

[Elvis Starburst]

Guys, don't go too hard on him. I find his threads way too hilarious, forums have been a bit dull off and on lately, he brightens up my day and that's not even sarcasm.

I think it's been awhile for some people. Hence why this is already at 3 pages. Makes me remember when Biased-Cell first joined us. Ahhh... Those were exciting times

 

[B-Cell_v1legacy]

But believe it or not, some of the best known games come from female protagonists

what are these games? can you name them? as far as i know 99% of best games feature male protagonists.

I can name one. Portal

 

[Elvis Starburst]

But believe it or not, some of the best known games come from female protagonists

what are these games? can you name them? as far as i know 99% of best games feature male protagonists.

I can name one. Portal

[Edited this first bit, re-read your post]

Lara Croft from Tomb Raider, Samus Aran from Metroid, Bayonetta from... Bayonetta, you can be female in Mass Effect, Shantae from... Shantae, Aya Brea from Parasite Eve, Joanna Dark from Perfect Dark, Amanda Ripley from Alien Isolation, Jade from Beyond Good and Evil, to name a few

 

[B-Cell_v1legacy]

But believe it or not, some of the best known games come from female protagonists

what are these games? can you name them? as far as i know 99% of best games feature male protagonists.

I can name one. Portal

[Edited this first bit, re-read your post]

Lara Croft from Tomb Raider, Samus Aran from Metroid, Bayonetta from... Bayonetta, you can be female in Mass Effect, Shantae from... Shantae, Aya Brea from Parasite Eve, Joanna Dark from Perfect Dark, Amanda Ripley from Alien Isolation, Jade from Beyond Good and Evil, to name a few

imo all these games absolutely suck. not because they have female characters but because they are mediocre. especially new tomb raider games.

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

But believe it or not, some of the best known games come from female protagonists

what are these games? can you name them? as far as i know 99% of best games feature male protagonists.

I can name one. Portal

[Edited this first bit, re-read your post]

Lara Croft from Tomb Raider, Samus Aran from Metroid, Bayonetta from... Bayonetta, you can be female in Mass Effect, Shantae from... Shantae, Aya Brea from Parasite Eve, Joanna Dark from Perfect Dark, Amanda Ripley from Alien Isolation, Jade from Beyond Good and Evil, to name a few

But believe it or not, some of the best known games come from female protagonists

what are these games? can you name them? as far as i know 99% of best games feature male protagonists.

I can name one. Portal

[Edited this first bit, re-read your post]

Lara Croft from Tomb Raider, Samus Aran from Metroid, Bayonetta from... Bayonetta, you can be female in Mass Effect, Shantae from... Shantae, Aya Brea from Parasite Eve, Joanna Dark from Perfect Dark, Amanda Ripley from Alien Isolation, Jade from Beyond Good and Evil, to name a few

imo all these games absolutely suck. not because they have female characters but because they are mediocre. especially new tomb raider games.

Elvis, somehow I don't think you're going to convince him. Just a hunch.

 

[EternallyBored]

. Assassin would be silly.

Wait what's wrong with her being an assassin? Wasn't she tought by Corvo?

Because of what I said later.

Realistically, she'd have underground rebels fighting for her, forbidding her from getting herself in danger, since she is vitally important to their cause. Like in Hidden Fortress. She would be learning about politics and her royal duties instead.

If no one will fight for her, why the hell is she trying to reclaim her throne?

Someone mentioned she could learn her duties in the fifteen years between the games, but there are other problems.

Also, assassinating would make it much harder for her to be supported by her people. Prowling and murder is looked down on. There's no way the rebels, if there are any who support her, would risk this identity getting out. There's no need for her to get her hands literally dirty.

Okay, I gotta ask; why are these details so important to adhere to realism while the entire game world is a steampunk power fantasy? Why does magic and psychic talking clockwork hearts and silent protagonists who refuse to defend themselves by just speaking, all get away with the realism criticism, yet a woman's ability and motivation for being an assassin is somehow the breaking point? I am completely and utterly baffled here.

Realism is nearly always important. It makes the extraordinary more believable, gives it a foundation and makes the stakes more exciting. This is pretty contrived.

Not really sure why you are drawing the realism line in such a bizarre place, especially one that the first game happily violated by having the well trained guard captain be the one man resistance, off on solo assassination missions rather than lending his expertise to training saboteurs, gathering allies, etc. The entire resistance in the first game hinges way too much on Corvo for any sort of realistic scenario. Really you could spend all day nitpicking stupid shit the protagonist and antagonists do in that game if you really want to apply that arbitrary level of realism to it.

The front line royal is such a mainstream trope I am curious why its supposed lack of realism bugs you so much, despite fiction often having princes and princesses running off on solo or small team adventures to topple evil powers that make little sense if you apply the logic you seem to want to apply to Emily here.

Realism can Add to a setting, but you are drawing the line in a weird place that I think may only apply to your personal level of suspension of disbelief, which you are welcome to, but I really am not seeing any problems with the lines of logic the game is setting up, not without casting the same criticism on entire game series that have similar setups, which would mean most people can buy the rogue royal plotline without the same issues you seem to have with it.

 

[bastardofmelbourne]

Not really sure why you are drawing the realism line in such a bizarre place, especially one that the first game happily violated by having the well trained guard captain be the one man resistance, off on solo assassination missions rather than lending his expertise to training saboteurs, gathering allies, etc. The entire resistance in the first game hinges way too much on Corvo for any sort of realistic scenario.

Not really disagreeing with you, but Corvo isn't a "well-trained guard captain." He isn't associated with the guard or the City Watch at all. He's a super badass who was deliberately picked for the fact that he was a) a super badass and b) loyal to the Empress first, with no other connections to anyone else that might be exploited.

And to be honest, using Corvo for assassinations instead of rear-echelon stuff like training or networking is actually way more sensible, considering that the Lord Regent's co-conspirators can be counted on one hand and - as a former bodyguard - Corvo is ideally placed to know how to get past other people's bodyguards. The loyalists had no real resources other than Corvo, but also no real obstacles other than the four or five people who needed to die in order for them to take power.

On...eugh..."topic", whether it's "realistic" or not for Emily to be an assassin...I doubt Corvo trained her as an assassin, but he almost certainly trained her, for her own self-defence. That's explanation enough for most players. Shit, it's more explanation than what we get for why Booker DeWitt is able to churn through an army of racists and revolutionaries despite only being a private detective of dubious competence.

Anyway, this thread is fucking dumb and I'm amazed it hasn't been locked already. A more obvious example of shit-stirring I have not seen in some time.