Why do people hate JRPGs?

[Mr.Petey]

because they suck ass!!!

seriously though, its the same turn based style, the same badly drawn teenager with purple hair, and the same giant grind every time. why would i play that when i can play an awesome western RPG?

hell,id rather play mw2 for 10 hours than any jrpg for 4 hours

As of late JRPGs have taken a vast amount of alternatives from turn-based combat. Plus I seem to recall a few western RPGS still have the same amount of grind element too. It's something that can't really be taken out of a role playing game, no matter how much we despise it

OT however I agree with the subject and would like to see some concrete reasoning behind so many people hating it. I still get laughs and jokes made when I 'fess up to playing some of the lesser known ones "Aw another stoopid anime game!" and such. Not in a while since I've shut 'em up in regards how a good JRPG can be much deeper than a lot of mainstream titles, regardless of where they originate from

i dont mean just a little grind, i dont mind that. i mean the insane repetitive grind of JRPGS

you want concrete reasoning? it's a shitty art style, in nearly all of them a ginormous repetitive grind, in most of them the same crappy turn based gameplay, and if i want to play an RPG, why not play a western one, its everything done better. even a shitty one like two worlds beats nearly all jrpgs hands down.

There is exceptions to every rule, there are some jrpgs without any of those cept the same art style, but why take a risk and see if its true how it has a reasonable amount of grind and good combat, when i can get, for the same price, a western RPG which commonly are already better and not have some crap art?

Yes I asked for some solid reasoning so here goes.
Ok then, I don't really see a "shitty art" style as you so eloquently put it in some of my titles I own, such as:
Rogue Galaxy
Dark Chronicle
Star Ocean 1 2 and 3
Jeanne D'arc

These games all have variations of appearance and a unique style that makes them their own (apart from the first two that are cell shaded but are still in a class of their own)
What I'd see as "shitty" would be poorly drawn, not enough attention to detail in places where it would somewhat warrant it, badly drawn or out of place.
Even White Knight Chronicles and Final Fantasy XIII has a similar style on to some western RPGs in terms of the landscape and towns and they all look rich in colour and vibrant.

I think you're painting with too wide a brush here as yes Final Fantasy I through to VI did look very similar back in the NES/SNES days but it's come a long way since as I've mentioned earlier

 

[ThatFanBoyGuy]

I don't hate JRPGs, but I don't like JRPG fanboys who immediately declare every single JRPG as perfect genius just based on the fact it's a JRPG. Some are good, some are bad. Some have strong points and some have weak points. It's ridiculous to say a JRPG is perfect simply because it's a JRPG

 

[Arehexes]

it's a bunch of stupid faggots who like wrpgs who claim jrpgs are for kids with gay plots but they forget most major jrpgs take ideas from western table top rpgs so saying they hate jrpgs means they hate the ieas of table top gaming. And this retarded "it's spread sheet with graphics LOL IADNE:FOIDAOFJSDF" is dumb because a RPG IS STAT BASED. If you love never winter nights you are playing GASP a game with spread sheets for graphics. If your playing fallout 1 2 3 your playing a game with spead sheets for graphics (and fallout 1 and 2 was most so since that SPECIAL was a quick idea instead of GURPS). I don't know what else since that's the main reasons I see on forums. But hard care rpg fans should try Class of Heroes, Dark Spire, or the Etrian Odyssey games if they want to play a rpg close to D&D (dark spire more so).

 

[Okysho]

IN defense of the stereotype, most people when you say JRPG or Final Fantasy, the first thing that comes to mind is Cloud Strife.

Cloud actually only enforces two of these steryotypes.

During the time of FF VII Cloud is actualy 21 and 23 (FF7 and AC respectively) CLoud was the first AND ONLY one to carry an oversized sword, so is that really a steryotype there?

Too much Drama? You would too if you almost killed someone you really cared fore (before watching her die before your eyes)

The view of JRPGs (besides turn based combat) is pretty damn watered down

My creative writing teacher used to have a saying. Don't defend a story with the story.

Also, you're seriously limiting what people don't like about JRPGs. Sure, there have been far more Cloud Strifes out there than were necessary, but, as far as I've seen, it seems to go way beyond just the Final Fantasy series.

You shouldn't really be trying to breakdown or simplify people's opinions like that. The human mind is far too complex for anyone to attempt to add up the millions of variables and factors that go into a person's perspective. It's just easier to accept the disagreement people have with what you personally like versus what they like.

Ok fair enough and I see your point.

 

[Billabong Pobblecock]

I really like rpgs. the only thing i don't like is the constant use of children as the main protagonist. which isn't exclusive to eastern or western games. i just wanna play a good rpg where a ten year old doesn't find out his uncle giving him the bad touch gave him super powers

 

[Okysho]

Looks like more people don't like JRPGS simply because they don't like the anime art style, turn based combat and a good story.

Seems to make sense. Arguing JRPGs don't have good stories is like saying Bioshock had a bad story. Like every genre, JRPGs have their bad games too so that doesn't seem like a very valid argument.

 

[Okysho]

thanks for your input let's end this before blood starts flying

 

[crystalsnow]

All characters are whiny emo teenagers, everything in the game is completely ridiculous, samey combat that gets really old really fast, etc.

 

[Cmd. Shepard]

Everyone has a different taste in games is probably the biggest reason.

With JRPG's though, alot of the time, people in the Western markets (NA,EU,AUS) just don't fully understand what is going on. The Japanese have a way of telling stories that are very unique and not alot of people understand what is going on....much of it has subtext in Japanese culture. The characters in the games add to it as well, when people see JRPG characters, they often have trouble identifying with them because of their extremely odd situations and outlandish looks.

Most of it boils down to people's taste in games though......

 

[Mr.Petey]

Everyone has a different taste in games is probably the biggest reason.

With JRPG's though, alot of the time, people in the Western markets (NA,EU,AUS) just don't fully understand what is going on. The Japanese have a way of telling stories that are very unique and not alot of people understand what is going on....much of it has subtext in Japanese culture. The characters in the games add to it as well, when people see JRPG characters, they often have trouble identifying with them because of their extremely odd situations and outlandish looks.

Most of it boils down to people's taste in games though......

I think you've just won the thread. I'm glad somebody acknowledges it as personal preferences and culture origins as opposed to the generalisation of the "androgynous teenager" image it attracts

 

[babinro]

From someone who loves Final Fantasy and Tales games...there is so much within them that I can't stand.

- Way over the top weaponry
- Guns being portrayed as weaker than bladed weapons
- Random encounters
- Grinding to level
- Grinding for gold
- Most comedic characters in these games
- Over used RPG style storyline
- Outrageous characters that don't suit the world around them who also join your party.
- Nonsensical gaming limitations (FF12 required that you buy gambits to program your party as an example).
- Combination of current technology with medieval style combat...a 15 year old girl capable of destroying tanks/mechs really takes away a lot of believability in the games world.

I'm sure there are more...but I must reiterate that I really do love the FF and Tales series as a whole despite all of the above. There's tons of potential for improvement though.

 

[suicide samurai]

I'm 31. I grew up on some of this stuff in the NES/SNES/Genesis Era. Of note, the pre-FF7 games in the series (not sure which ones, due to title changes), Breath of fire, and Landstalker, as well as Chrono-trigger (never got into a lot of the other stuff in that series).

Hell, actually, most of what I grew up on was from Japan. it's the 18 year and under crowd that's had more "American" influances.

To me, the JRPG stuff almost goes over my head now--very fan-based, though if an RPG title catches my eye for something I'm interested in (fall-out, Elderscrolls (morrowind, oblivion), the KoTOR stuff), I might check one out. Some of the steam-punk elements still seem cool, though, while the FF movie (Spirit within?) I watched sort of blew--too much raver music, and the film never let the sound-track rest.

Length is a problem as well for me now. At 31, I have a house, long-term relationship, full-time job (up to 60 hours a week), plus occasional job-training/school. It's easier for me to pop in a quick shooter (or raceing game) to blow off steam and feel entertained than it is to get into any RPG that might lead me to being blurry-eyed in the morning. Sadly, JRPG's tend to be more grind-tastic that some of the others I've played.

The last little bit is cultural, and age based. It seems to me that the JRPG's tend to be very emo-based, full of broken and messed up characters with odd complexities. Oddly, I like Japanese Porn for this same reason.

 

[TheDrunkNinja]

Looks like more people don't like JRPGS simply because they don't like the anime art style, turn based combat and a good story.

Seems to make sense. Arguing JRPGs don't have good stories is like saying Bioshock had a bad story. Like every genre, JRPGs have their bad games too so that doesn't seem like a very valid argument.

See, now you just lost all credibility.

"Oh, people don't like JRPGs because they just don't like a good story."

I equate that line of thinking to someone saying "That guy says he doesn't like pizza, so he just doesn't like food."

Yeah, you like JRPGs. A lot of people don't like JRPGs. Comparing Bioshock to JRPGs is pointless since they're worlds apart. You take that kind of argument to any student of creative writing or screen writing, and you will always lose.

I can understand why you would be confused why there is so much hate attached to a genre you like, but you seriously dropped the ball here at the end.

 

[Therumancer]

I honestly have got to know. I get that they have their flaws and their own bad titles, but what game genre doesn't?

Usually,they've got good plots, good character development, good music and clever gameplay which is basically what makes a game enjoyable.

So why is it that people don't like them?

I mean this is the most sincere way. I'm not that big of a fan of FPSs and it wasn't until I saw Halo legends that I started to enjoy the series (even then, not to a huge fanboy-ish extent) and Western RPGS with the exception of Mass Effect haven't really hit that sweet spot with me.

Please tell me fellow escapists Why do the bad men hate us so much?

With JRPGs I think it's that they were intended for a very specific audience of people. As gaming became increasingly mainstream and accessible with each generation, games that were mostly intellectual exercises became increasingly less popular in proportion to the overall gaming community as you had more and more people interested specifically in fancy FX and immediate gratification.

RPGs arguably used to be the bread and butter of gaming accross all platforms, RPGs and on consoles that means JRPGs, being the genere that produced most of the blockbusters.

Right now with there being such a tug of war between games, with big budgets being nessicary to produce them, you see a lot more hatred towards someone else's genere of choice in part due to the perception that time being wasted on games you don't like, will decrease the number of games being produced that you will like. The increasing perception that there is a conflict and that it's your games against theirs is one of the reasons why I think you see so much bile spewed at specific generes.

One also has to consider that when it comes to RPGs while it's a smaller fan base than more mainstream fare, it's still a substantial one. I think developers and producers are reluctant to abandon that number of customers, but ultimatly would prefer generes that are easier to develop. Making a shooter using say "Unreal" is comparitively cheap when you look at an RPG that typiclaly requires the development of it's own engine from the ground up, combined with a lot more consistincy since all the numbers and mechanics are visible, and frequently a lot more art assets even if a lot of them wind up being recycled throughout the game.

As a result I think you see the anti-RPG (paticularly JRPG) crowd being a bit louder due to superior numbers, and you see developers trying to find excuses to develop more action games without totally alienating one of the longest standing (and still fairly large) markets that is out there.

For example right now you keep hearing these ridiculous claims that with current technology a company like Square Enix couldn't produce a "Final Fantasy VII" because it would be too expensive to do all those enviroments. One of those classic "WTF" statements, since it makes fundementally no sense, if the current tech was actually that much more expensive and unwieldy it would never have been embraced for "next gen" use to begin with. In reality what I think it comes down to is that it cuts into the potential profit margins, after all a cheaper game means less cost and more profit.

Well, enough rambling, especially seeing as I am (again) speaking repetitively.

Things work in cycles, JRPGs are pretty much perfect as they are, which is why they have survived this long. I anticipate that attitudes will change in a couple of decades at the most when the current twitchy fingered kids get older and still want to play games, despite being slower and more cereberal in their outlook. While the younger generation will probably still outnumber them (simply given how things work) the increased numbers, and the fact that this generation will be the first generation of gamers holding the biggest purse strings (Gen Xers were skipped, hence why we're the "lost generation"), taking over from the baby boomers, your going to see some radical shifts in how things are going to work to get their money.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

While everyone is entitled to their own opinion, I have always derived a sense of partial hypocrisy when specific complaints are lobbied towards characters. Tidus of Final Fantasy X is one such example, where his persona is frequently cited as an annoyance. Coincidently, this apparent qualm is perhaps one of the most accurate portrayals of general human emotion under those presented circumstances, although not entirely devoid of exaggeration for dramatic impact. Whilst I cede to a generalization in this assumption, a large portion of Western gamers, nay, gamers as a whole, imagine themselves being exceptionally better prepared were they to endure what the principle character(s) must. More often in results that ironically transcend even the world the game itself created.

Spoiler: FFX spoilers accompanied by an analysis of the abovementioned theory

I concluded this hypothesis some time ago and I had a rare opportunity to test the aforementioned when in a debate. Comically and predictably, when I queried how he would react if he lived a life of luxury, a born athlete and popularized sensation whose only qualm in life at the basis was father issues. Essentially, he was Tidus. Now imagine in matters of moments this is taken away, everything, everyone you have meant is gone. Worse, it is almost a certainty they have died and there is nothing you can do to remedy these abrupt turn of events. Can you truthfully say you would not complain, whine or perhaps even cry, depending on how stable a personality you possess? Of course, in this case of the debate, the person in question retorted with a tangent of his macho bravado, as with many. Hence why I ponder if whiny characters are less fancied out of a subconscious feeling of helplessness. We are not immediately able to play up our fantasized heroism. Of course, that can be one of the most prominent issues with JRPGs for some. We have no say in the main character's development, but I have digressed.

Hmm, this could be a topic in and of itself. I should note I used FFX due to my immense familiarity with the characters and because of how often Tidus - the persona I required for the argument - is complained. Food for thought I suppose.

 

[yundex]

I hate them because I don't like my rpg's to be linear anymore. Some exceptions being golden sun, FF9/12 grandia and a few more. If japan started craking out rpg's with dialog systems like mass effect and alpha protocol I probably wouldn't leave my house.

 

[thenamelessloser]

I hate them because I don't like my rpg's to be linear anymore. Some exceptions being golden sun, FF9/12 grandia and a few more. If japan started craking out rpg's with dialog systems like mass effect and alpha protocol I probably wouldn't leave my house.

Maybe I should start doing stuff with my life and get a social life now in case that happens in the future. I mean, I can just imagine finally getting a girlfriend but no a new Xenosaga/gears game but with CHOICES. And I would be like FUCK REALITY.

 

[zombays]

It's all the same, emo teenagers with FREAKY ASS hair. One super bad guy, kill him ,turns out there's a bigger bad guy, one or more of your members of the party die along the way or betray you. Whole story starts because someone burns down your village. In fact, let me just send you the link.
http://gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2010/10/21/every-rpg-ever-the-flowchart.aspx

 

[A random person]

People dislike certain trends, both stylistically and inherent to the genre, like with most things. The complaints I can understand best are overly long animations, grinding, and many of them having cliche stories (and not the fun kind of cliche).

Personally though, I like both Japanese and western RPG's; Chrono Trigger is one of the best games ever, and I'm having lots of fun with New Vegas (though I have to start over do to Windows getting deleted).