Why do people say Crysis 1 is a "generic shooter" ?
- Thread starter endtherapture
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I think I can see why it didn't work for you, because that's not how it worked at all. Were you seriously trying to turn invisible or turn on speed by pressing the maximum armor button multiple times?Treblaine said:
EDIT: That came out too contemptuously than it should have. Your comment just bothered me as yet another misconception about Crysis 1/Warhead that I feel led to the eventual creation of Crysis 2, in which the only thing improved amidst a sea of downgrades was how maximum armor worked. It's because of all these misconceptions that the Crysis series is no longer the unique and incredibly rewarding gameplay experience it once was.
Oh well, at least S.T.A.L.K.E.R. might be getting a sequel, and hopefully that isn't turned into a corridor shooter.
The best part about Crysis 2 was the easy controls - cloaking was much easier which is great.Treblaine said:
I bought Crysis on Steam. I've looked through the control settings a dozen different times, there IS NO hotkey for each of the suit modes. There is only ONE hotkey to cycle through the suit powers and it works not by each tap cycling to next mode, but the mode corresponding to tap number.Breadline said:
Please, don't revel in spreading ignorance TELL ME HOW to find these DIRECT KEY INPUTS for each suit mode so I can set it as:
X = Max Strength
C = Max Armour
V = Max Speed
F = Invisible
I have the latest patch on PC, so what gives? Don't treat me like a complete moron as if I would seriously ignore hotkeys for invisible + speed and just tap hotkey for max-armour over and over. That is an insulting assumption when you didn't consider that was the only key layout I had available!!!
So explain yourself. How did you get a keyboard layout that had one key press to go DIRECTLY to each suit mode?
And don't say "Google It" as I have.
I would also request this too - it'd make my tactics and stuff much better - at the moment I play it safe (still have loads of seriously great unscripted fun) using the wheel, but it's kinda unintuitive.Treblaine said:
For me Crysis is definition of graphics don't make a good game. I was utterly bored entire time playing it.
It's annoying, Breadline seems to have responded as if he/she can speak for anthony87 who said:endtherapture said:
"I wasn't aware of the shortcut commands for the different suit powers until I was nearly halfway though.
Super speed to strength jump FTW..........except when you go over a cliff and die."
The only shortcut I can find is a single key that cycles through the 4 suit powers in such an unintuitive way, corresponding to number of rapid taps rather than each tap going through each suit power.
Like I said in my edit, I spoke too harshly so I apologize for being a dick in that respect.Treblaine said:
But I also never said anything about single key inputs. There are four different buttons you double tap for nanosuit shortcuts. I remember, for example, double tapping crouch for invisibility was one and double tapping sprint for super speed was another. There's also a radial menu that you press and flick your mouse in a direction to activate, and after a few tries you do it fast enough that the radial menu hardly even appears. I honestly don't even remember there being a button that cycles through powers, that sounds incredibly inconvenient.
This was also a response to you citing Crysis' controls as a huge factor that put you off and made you like Crysis 2 better. You said you have to press one button multiple times to cycle powers, and I'm sorry for saying otherwise if such an inconvenient setup actually exists, but there are obviously much better options available. The powers in Crysis 1/Warhead were intuitive, allowed far more flexibility and weren't pseudo-quicktime events that could only be activated based on context. The Crysis 1 nanosuit was an easy to learn hard to master mechanic (look at the video I posted earlier in the thread for an example) while the Crysis 2 nanosuit was simply easy to learn.
It's because of people not wanting to actually get better and use the powers creatively and effectively that half of the nanosuit's powers were stripped down and basically became automatic.
Yeah, I think it's safe to assume anyone who has played the game knows about the radial menu. I have no problem with the concept of the radial menu, except WHY THE HELL is the weapon-attachment menu in there?!?! 4-powers, 4 directions, but NOOOoOoOoO! That's too intuitive! Because I really want to suddenly start dismantling my weapon as I'm surrounded by North Korean soldiers mag dumping into my craniumBreadline said:
But where is it explained that double-tapping sprint activates Maximum-Speed mode??!!?! Or double-tapping crouch for stealth? What about Maximum strength?!? I've only now been able to find it in a small addendum in the user manual of the sequel:
http://cdn.steampowered.com/Manuals/17330/manual_english.pdf
The Wiki failed me, and the game NEVER EVER stated that what these suit shortcuts actually were. There is a toggle box for "suit shortcuts" that has no info box explaining its function.
The "Suit Mode Toggle" key IS real and a red herring, makes it seem like this is the only alternative to the radial menu (that I avoided for even the 1-10 chance of missing slightly and hitting the useless weapons customisation screen) and from my RPG experience that fits my muscle memory from my experience with prior FPS games (Deus Ex, etc)
Radial menus obstruct my vision and even momentarily disable the ability to turn/aim and in this case weren't intuitive X/Y directions but off at 72 degree angles where one angle gave the unwanted weapon customisation.
And you know what would have been a HELL of a lot more intuitive than that? Literally having:
X = Max Strength
C = Max Armour
V = Max Speed
F = Invisible
In the keys customisation menu. Remember, if even the Wiki fails to mention this, HOW MANY PEOPLE still didn't discover this?!!?
You know what is better than "Easy to learn, hard to master"???
"Easy to learn, easy to master"
Making it arbitrarily hard to master is a pointless endeavour and FALSE VALUE! That is the difference between challenge and tedium.
I am no masochist who will excuse bullshit like putting weapons-customisation-election inside the radial wheel that is supposed to be DEDICATED to selecting suit powers! Especially when it ruins the simple vectors. I am USED to aiming directly up to arc grenades, directly side to side to lead targets and when walking over items directly down. Then to take a 4-option's that would neatly divide into Positive X, Positive Y, Negative Y and Negative X then add a 5th option that fucked up the 90-degree split and if accidentally selected could leave you unable to turn
I can easily direct my mouse through 90 degree increments. All the Mouse-gesture gadgets work around 90-degree increments and I control my browser very efficiently this way. But with Crysis radial menu I have to Aim for 144 degrees, but If I hit past 180 degrees (only 36 degrees out from centre, about 5 minutes on a clock face) then I either hit maximum strength when I want cloak, or worse I get the weapon customisation menu. Once spotted, I obviously want to go for max-armour but out by only 5-minutes on a clock-hand out and I either get speed or the crippling weapon-customisation menu.
And the distinction from challenge of fighting a potent enemy or hostile environment is I am not foiled by worthy opponents, but by BALLS STUPID DESIGN DECISIONS! Like having the bonnet-release be a setting on a car windscreen wipers, so you're driving along and want to wipe rain off windows, turn a dial a TINY FRACTION too far and the hood pops open flat against the screen totally blinding you. WHAAAA!!
MAXIMUM RAGE
Who knows, was one of the developers trolling me, or were they just rushed and felt pressured to pile shit into menus that didn't deserve to be there but were worried people wouldn't use it. Probably the latter but it sure feels like the former.
"half of the nanosuit's powers were stripped down and basically became automatic."
False.
Not only is it false that half the suit powers were stripped down but it is false that ANY of the suit powers were stripped down.
All the abilities are still there, just accessed more ergonomically.
-Speed is still there but you only activate it when you actually need it, when sprinting via a dedicated sprint key. Easy to combine with super-jump for the furthest leaps
-Stealth is still there exactly as before, just now one button pressed and pressed again to disengage. That's ergonomic design.
-Max Armour is still there only more effective and more power consuming, if anything this mode has been ENHANCED (not stripped down) and is the Ying to the Stealth mode's Yang with similar power consumption rates on their unique but opposite use
-Max Strength is default mode and works intuitively with charge-attacks. This is intuitive as to jump higher you'd need to coil your legs more which takes a fraction more time and still use more energy. Same for super throw and super kick.
This is intuitive. This is the way a nano-suit like this should work. You only ever need to do a single super punch or super jump often while doing something else. The number of times in Crysis 1 I wanted to do just a single super jump I'd have to enter a different mode then go back again immediately after. It's pointless and defies the way you'd imagine a suit like this should operate.
Automatic means "does by itself". The suit doesn't do any more by itself than in Crysis 1 where a whole load of suit powers were automatic like the rebreather. In Crysis 2 a cutscene event (there were cutscenes in Crysis 1 as well) sends you falling out of a building and you have to activate max-armour to survive the fall at all. Not automatic. The only vaguest automatic is that if you run energy-cell dry using Cloak it turns off cloak... and Crysis 1 nanosuit ALREADY did that when cloak ran dry.
Crysis 1 has a whole load of key combinations for shortcuts I am only NOW discovering about, 5 years after the game came out. After I've seen how Crysis 2's controls can be so much better without ANY compromise.
_
Crysis 2 is slightly more linear (Crysis 1 WAS linear), but that hasn't held back games like Half Life 2 or Portal from getting stupendous acclaim with similar levels of linearity. Yes, destructible buildings are gone but how were they actually used in Crysis 1 in terms of actual gameplay? Blowing a hole in a wall for alternate entrance wasn't practical in practice (nor usually even possible), it just meant under a firefight the house would annoyingly collapse on you then the pieces freak out as the physics of the boards didn't quite work lying on their sides. Most of the structures the enemies occupied were indestructible in crysis 1.
The lush jungle of Crysis 1 was again squandered as the obvious gameplay use of a lush jungle is with passive physical camouflage, a Ghillie Suit like seen in earlier COD games and was a main feature of Metal Gear Solid 3. Except you have an optical camouflage that works as well in a city scape as a jungle or a black-fibre suit that blends in more in a city than in a jungle [Hmm, I just realised the Predator-Predator 2 link with Crysis, first in jungle then in city] So in terms of gameplay, it's hard to miss the jungle.
Look, I get it that Crytech were real douches with all the douchy things they said towards PC gamers after they gave them so much paid patronage. But I don't hold a grudge against words, but deeds. I'm happy that console gamers got a taste of Crysis 2, just like they got a taste of Portal 2 but everyone knows the PC is the best version. Is it really the case that Valve can get away with releasing a game day and date on consoles along with PC without being considered traitors to PC gaming, yet the same decency isn't offered to Crytech?
I dunno what else to say man. I agree the controls could have been better in Crysis 1, but I and others adjusted fine and enjoy that better than Crysis 2's stripped down nanosuit. And yes, I'm standing by "stripped down". The second game's nanosuit is more inuitive in the same way that auto aim is more intuitive. I want to be precise, I want to choose what powers to use when I want to use them. I want maximum speed to be more than a glorified sprint that decreases your suit energy, and a maximum strength that doesn't rely on context and holding a button in the middle of combat to work correctly. Maximum armor was better in Crysis 2 though, like I said before.Treblaine said:
As for not knowing about the shortcuts, not sure what to say there either. I didn't even know there was a manual available and I always used them. Apparently you've already checked half the internet for these obscure functions, I can't remember how exactly I cracked the secret but my guess is that I may have Googled "crysis nanosuit shortcuts" and chosen the first result. But you specifically said you already tried that. It remains a mystery then, and a testament to Crysis 2's superiority because a lower barrier of entry is always an indication of quality.
I would never want a game to streamline if that streamlining also constrained. The controls of Crysis 1 were clearly a much bigger issue for you than I, a hump that you refused or were unable to get over. I even find Crysis 1's controls more intuitive because I can choose what I want and when without compromise. I much prefer that freedom at the cost of "intuitiveness" because I'm fine with working on it to get a more rewarding experience in the end. I didn't have big issues with the controls, and after getting good at them I find the combat far more enjoyable than Crysis 2. And by "getting good at them" I mean actually using the powers well, overcoming the controls was a simple endeavor, not an arbitrary challenge. But if you think something being "easy to learn, easy to master" is more enjoyable than "easy to learn, hard to master" (and again, I mean the mechanics, not the controls), then we've got very different perspectives on games in general.
But the merits of Crysis 1 vs Crysis 2 aren't why I'm posting. You mention a lot of other stuff that I'm not sure is directed to me. It's a shame, though valid, that you hated the controls so much. But this all expanded from you saying that the suit powers had to be cycled, and they don't.
I really would've liked to use Stealth, but it was impossible due to the suit drain and bad shortcuts. Stealth was better in Crysis 2 even though sometimes the AI could see you in Stealth mode which was annoying.Major Tom said:
Crysis has aged very well I think.
Breadline said:
But maximum speed IS jsut a glorified sprint that uses suit power! It's the only feature of that mode and with discrete mode it is almost impossible to use Maximum Speed sprint anf Maximum Strength Jump at the same instance for the longest jump. While sprinting in Max Speed mode the time needed to switch to max-strength mode and jump the forward momentum is lost. Unless macro keys are used. And would you look at that, Crysis 2 controls are pretty much macro shortcuts.
There is NOTHING AUTOMATIC. Auto aim makes intelligent decisions for you, the controls in Crysis 2 doesn't. There is NO special context menus, in Crysis 2 you can hold down melee button anywhere.
Anyone can do snide remarks.
'Being needlessly obtuse and unexplained is just the kind of shit that hipster gamers love'
Why the hell should the control layouts be "secret" and "Obscure" that you didn't even know you have to crack. And there is still the problem of how this SUCKS! Double tap "move back" for armour mode?!?!?
No "constraint", no "compromise", no loss of freedom. It is NOTHING BUT empty and contradictory accusations from you. I have addressed al the problems with Crysis 1 controls and how Crysis 2 controls are in every way better but you simply deny this without any logic nor reason.
In all this you NEVER directly address any one of my specific problems such as:
-how the game and the Wiki doesn't explain suit shortcut controls
-the inability to super sprint and super jump at the same instance with separate modes, and other problems with separate modes idea.
-the stupid design decisions with the Radial menu, even if radial menu in principal is a good idea.
Crysis 1 controls you DO NOT get more freedom! You have LESS freedom compared to Crysis 2 as it is impossible to use two suit modes at the same time. You Cannot sprint while using other powers, after picking something up you can't super-throw while continuously tracking a target.
I don't get you, I really don't get you, why do you keep saying Crysis 2 controls are "compromised" when I have demonstrated that in every objective way they are NOT compromised but IMPROVED in their capability! Please, explain to me what is so "compromised" about a control scheme that allows you to combine Super-Sprint and Super-Jump for the furthest leaps?
-Everything you can do with Crysis 1 controls you can do quicker with Crysis 2 controls
-Half the things you can do with Crysis 2 control you can't do without code customisation in Crysis 1
So, why am I mad? Other than you being so mealy mouthed denialism about progress?
Because these developers have endeavoured to make things better and yet people shit on their work from 20'000 feet and say the awkward controls of the previous game were good enough and reject all the improvements for no adequately explained reason. People like you are standing in the way of progress, unable to see or accept when things have improved by relishing in poor design.
I didn't get into PC gaming to put up with awkward and unsuited controls.
I never said that was the case. I said I WOULD have preferred that was the case.Breadline said:
The only alternative to the tricky Radial menu (that the game actually explains) is the Suit Powers Toggle (Default numb-row 4) where you do have to tap once for armour but to get speed you must double-tap, triple-tap for max speed and 4 rapid taps for Cloak. So NOT cycling through powers, but instead a bloody quick-time even of morse-code like tapping.
I don't know if that's better or worse than double-tapping S to get Max Armour.
Riddle me this: Why couldn't there just be one key to go DIRECTLY to each suit mode?
This is precisely why Crysis 2 was the biggest disappointment of 2011 - it took one of the most dynamic, polished and multi-faceted shooters since Half-Life 2 and turned it into a very pretty COD-clone.
Okay, maybe that's a bit harsh, but the freedom, immersion and Predator-style guerrilla warfare of the first game was always going to make a linear corridor-shooter look bad.
Okay, maybe that's a bit harsh, but the freedom, immersion and Predator-style guerrilla warfare of the first game was always going to make a linear corridor-shooter look bad.
I remember after I boosted my PC power I reinstalled and replayed Crysis, I remember when the game first came out I was a little critical of it, perhaps overly so. I remember thinking just after using a rocket launcher to take out an entire tower which fell to pieces in beautiful fashion sending the sniper flying, before usinging strength to jump over the compound wall into a jeep which I used to make my escape. "Where have the games gone that try this stuff?" Crysis only seems to get better with age precisely because no one seems to have the passion to make games with its ambition anymore. Crysis 2 was pretty much another CoD clone.
No, it's been canned due to poor sales of previous games (read pirates).Breadline said:
Onesquillionbazillion times this, I got into Crysis Wars (multiplayer) for a while but had to retire due to a lack of the above. It felt so clunky being forced to use the radial menu to say the least. Allowing Quake (or any competitive shooter's) binding of weapons/skills to keys might have seen Crysis Wars take off in a big way.Treblaine said:
I loved it, personally. It felt played great, it looked great, it was open in design. The combat was fun, the aliens looked cool (unlike what they did in Crysis 2 
) and were difficult to fight.
Even the story was alright. Not winning any awards for writing or making compelling characters; but it at least told a coherent story at a reasonable pace which, if CoD taught me anything, is apparently a lot to ask from games now-a-days.
) and were difficult to fight.Even the story was alright. Not winning any awards for writing or making compelling characters; but it at least told a coherent story at a reasonable pace which, if CoD taught me anything, is apparently a lot to ask from games now-a-days.
WHAT!!!emmettr3 said:
How is Crysis 2 any more a CoD-clone than the first one?!?!
What Crysis 2 HAS to exclude it from being a COD-clone:
-RPG like incremental upgrading of suit capability
-That nano suit with super-jump, mega punch and a god damn cloak mode
-dynamic weapon customisation with swapping out accessories and fire-modes
-carry 4 weapons total: 2 firearms and 2 explosives type weapons
-Bloody sci-fi aliens and mutating viruses!
-Aliens invading New York is more plausible than Russians invading
-Silent protagonist (in Crysis 2) cemented in Valve's games like Portal/Half-Life
What it lacks which CoD has and is derided for:
-lacks such a focus on online multiplayer
-lacks multiple disjointed and diverging perspectives typical of CoD
-lacks the implausibly-deadly knife and lunge
-Lacks faux-gritty realism of "modern warfare"
-Lacks a bullshit contrived plot of endless double-crossing and Makarov reading the script
-Lacks CoD melodrama of "oooh, Soap is dying :'("
-Lacks Chatty-protagonist that has infected CoD since Black Ops
If Crysis 2 is a cod-clone... then by that same loose standard so are Crysis and Crysis Warhead also CoD clones.
The only similarity is the BARE BASIC similarity in controller layout with on consoles. But that's like saying Portal is a Quake clone because it uses the controls layout that were established to work best for those inputs. Wait... is it a CoD clone ONLY because the develoeprs DARED to make it available on Consoles as well as PC?
Yes, Crysis 2 is slightly more linear, by why automatically compare it with the VERY LINEAR CoD rather than Half Life 2? Ah, yes, because Half Life 2 is a rightly lauded game and CoD is a derided and despised game. Crysis 1 was still very linear, you faced every obstacle in-order just have the option to flank around the side a bit, broadly you can do the same in Crysis 2.
Sorry dude, but I disagree with a few things you said.Treblaine said:
It seems you had trouble with the radial menu. In all honesty I thought it worked great, as long as you memorise where the different suit powers are on the menu. I don't agree with your hatred of having the weapon customisation on the radial menu, but I can see how it would annoy some people.
You mentioned how the radial menu obstructed your vision and stopped you from turning and aiming. I can only imagine this being an issue in combat. Even then it's not really a problem if you've memorised the different power locations, since you can then select your wanted suit power very quickly.
As for shortcuts, I never used them since the radial menu always worked great for me.
Ironically I had huge problems with the radial menu in Crysis 2. For some reason it always selected a different power from the one I had highlighted. Maybe it's just me.
As for the powers themselves, I never liked what Crytek did to the nanosuit in Crysis 2. Making speed/strength the default suit power felt stupid to me since it meant you were always using up energy. Speed is essentially sprint now, instead of 'really really fast' sprint like it was in Crysis, which means that no longer can you normally run out of a nasty situation if you've lost all your energy from being shot at(since being shot takes energy, even if you're not in armour mode). Throwing things in Crysis 2 is just pointless: for whatever reason, enemies aren't effected by thrown objects like they used to be. And holding down the attack key to power-throw an object takes more time than quickly switching modes and hitting the throw key. For me anyway.
It seems that you didn't care for the destructible environments in Crysis. Even if they didn't do much for you, don't you think it's better that they were there? Compared to Crysis 2 where the environment is mostly static. In Crysis you can destroy a bench with a rocket launcher. You can't in Crysis 2. The destruction may not serve much practical purpose (for some people) but at least it was there.
I respect your opinion, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with it. Anything that I haven't mentioned means that I either agree with you, or don't necessarily disagree with you.