Why do people say that Capitalism is good?

[Pegghead]

Well the fact that we have the police and soup kitchens debunks your arguments of theft and not being able to afford the things necessary to survive.

To me capitalism ultimately works and that's good enough for me.

 

[Dags90]

Well the fact that we have the police and soup kitchens debunks your arguments of theft and not being able to afford the things necessary to survive.

In a completely capitalist society there would be no police or military, there would only be mercenaries and other private defense contractors. You would only be protected from theft to the extent you could protect yourself.

 

[mechanixis]

snip

First of all pure capitalism is not perfect and their is no pure capitalism.
second capitalism is great because you have the freedom to succeed or the freedom to fail.

You think people only steal in capitalism? wow you are stupid, blaming capitalism for theft.

"But it's so much easier to convince people of the superiority of your product than it is to make a genuinely superior one." So you pick up a candy bar that was advertised as great but its tasted like shit. Are you going to pick up another one?

...why do you want the freedom to fail?

I didn't say Capitalism invented theft. I said it incentivizes it.

And what if you spent your life savings on that candybar? What if we're talking about a house or a car?

icentivizes theft and where is theft not an incentive?

And you answer my question on failure. You always have options in capitalism which you are never given in a system where the government tells you what to do. It is not the fault of capitalism that you didn't do your research before plunging your life savings into something that is bound to fail.

To be honest, I would rather fail with freedom then live in a society where i can't make choices.

Okay, so say your bank burns down with your life savings inside. Or a company is good at hiding reasons not to buy their product. (The entire advertising industry.)

It's still your fault somehow? It's hubristic to think that you will only lose money in ways that are forseeable or make sense.

 

[Pimppeter2]

Money is something you get for working to better society. It is a representation of how much you have contributed. This is the crux of Capitalism: the harder you work, the more money you get. And then you get to take that 'work' and translate it into goods - food, housing, a new car. So, with money as an incentive, it's believed that people will compete to be the best in their field, so they receive the most money.

Which in return creates the best prices and products for consumers through competition.

So my first gripe is, money represents work. But it isn't work itself. You can acquire money without working. You can rob someone, for instance. In fact, if you can get away with it, it's much easier to rob someone than it is to make the same amount of money through your own labors. See investment loan scandals. Because money is an end in itself, there's no incentive not to steal it - in fact, there's an incentive to do so. It's the path of least resistance.

Without repercussions for their actions people are likely to do it regardless of the economic system they are in.

The idea behind the free market is "If the market has no regulation, then people will only buy the best products, and therefore people will be incentivized to make better and better products." But it's so much easier to convince people of the superiority of your product than it is to make a genuinely superior one.

Yes, but as I've said before people should have the freedom to make their own decisions. I'd rather get screwed on a deal than not have the freedom to make my own decision.

Capitalism incentivizes the stealing of people's lifeforce.

No, Greed does. Greed is a natural thing. SO is anger, happiness, and sadness.

 

[Clobbertron]

Capitalism doesn't mean that the law doesn't exist.

The existence of the law does not reduce the value of ill-gotten money.

Yes, but it makes it less likely for people to do things we're they achieve ill-gotten cash.

If someone can gain ill-gotten money with no chance of getting in trouble, it doesn't matter what type of economic system you live in, 9/10 times people will do it.

Well, one approach to stopping theft is to punish the thief. Another is not to give him anything to steal.

If you can have everything you want or need for free, and don't feel compelled to acquire money for money's sake, you're not going to steal money.

The point of the law is to punish people that commit crimes, such as theft, so that reduces the incentive of people to commit crimes.
And if you never have anything that you could gain because you only have what you need to live, that would be a pretty joyless existence.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

snip

First of all pure capitalism is not perfect and their is no pure capitalism.
second capitalism is great because you have the freedom to succeed or the freedom to fail.

You think people only steal in capitalism? wow you are stupid, blaming capitalism for theft.

"But it's so much easier to convince people of the superiority of your product than it is to make a genuinely superior one." So you pick up a candy bar that was advertised as great but its tasted like shit. Are you going to pick up another one?

...why do you want the freedom to fail?

I didn't say Capitalism invented theft. I said it incentivizes it.

And what if you spent your life savings on that candybar? What if we're talking about a house or a car?

icentivizes theft and where is theft not an incentive?

And you answer my question on failure. You always have options in capitalism which you are never given in a system where the government tells you what to do. It is not the fault of capitalism that you didn't do your research before plunging your life savings into something that is bound to fail.

To be honest, I would rather fail with freedom then live in a society where i can't make choices.

Okay, so say your bank burns down with your life savings inside. Or a company is good at hiding reasons not to buy their product. (The entire advertising industry.)

It's still your fault somehow? It's hubristic to think that you will only lose money in ways that are forseeable or make sense.

And the local commune burns down and everyone's livelihood is now gone. Or a worker could put something in the commune which was sub standard, but s/he says it's good because s/he wants to be respected by the community by providing for it.

 

[Pimppeter2]

Capitalism doesn't mean that the law doesn't exist.

The existence of the law does not reduce the value of ill-gotten money.

Yes, but it makes it less likely for people to do things we're they achieve ill-gotten cash.

If someone can gain ill-gotten money with no chance of getting in trouble, it doesn't matter what type of economic system you live in, 9/10 times people will do it.

Well, one approach to stopping theft is to punish the thief. Another is not to give him anything to steal.

If you can have everything you want or need for free, and don't feel compelled to acquire money for money's sake, you're not going to steal money.

True, but then there is also no incentive to make the best product.

 

[Cain_Zeros]

All the "I'm free to do anything" stuff people are going on about.

However, I'm not so free to do anything. I'm getting a college education, but there are no jobs available where I live that will make use of it. I also don't make anywhere near enough money at my current job to move elsewhere and find jobs. I'm stuck in a dead end job because it's all there is. Still sound like a wonderful flowers and happiness system?

 

[BonsaiK]

Capitalism incentivizes the stealing of people's lifeforce.

And that's really the root of the issue here.

All I know is this:

* It's human nature to want to own stuff. People dig owning stuff. Any system that doesn't allow you to own stuff has a short future.
* This thread belongs in Religion and Politics.

 

[Clobbertron]

All the "I'm free to do anything" stuff people are going on about.

However, I'm not so free to do anything. I'm getting a college education, but there are no jobs available where I live that will make use of it. I also don't make anywhere near enough money at my current job to move elsewhere and find jobs. I'm stuck in a dead end job because it's all there is. Still sound like a wonderful flowers and happiness system?

So you would rather have someone just choose a job for you saying "You do this now. If you don't like it tough luck." instead of having the option to pick your career?

 

[mechanixis]

snip

First of all pure capitalism is not perfect and their is no pure capitalism.
second capitalism is great because you have the freedom to succeed or the freedom to fail.

You think people only steal in capitalism? wow you are stupid, blaming capitalism for theft.

"But it's so much easier to convince people of the superiority of your product than it is to make a genuinely superior one." So you pick up a candy bar that was advertised as great but its tasted like shit. Are you going to pick up another one?

...why do you want the freedom to fail?

I didn't say Capitalism invented theft. I said it incentivizes it.

And what if you spent your life savings on that candybar? What if we're talking about a house or a car?

icentivizes theft and where is theft not an incentive?

And you answer my question on failure. You always have options in capitalism which you are never given in a system where the government tells you what to do. It is not the fault of capitalism that you didn't do your research before plunging your life savings into something that is bound to fail.

To be honest, I would rather fail with freedom then live in a society where i can't make choices.

Okay, so say your bank burns down with your life savings inside. Or a company is good at hiding reasons not to buy their product. (The entire advertising industry.)

It's still your fault somehow? It's hubristic to think that you will only lose money in ways that are forseeable or make sense.

And the local commune burns down and everyone's livelihood is now gone. Or a worker could put something in the commune which was sub standard, but s/he says it's good because s/he wants to be respected by the community by providing for it.

Still, your entire commune burning down is a lot less likely. In Capitalism, a person's livelihood often comes down to a line of code in their bank account. If one person creates something and misrepresents it, that's one product and one customer, as opposed to a national, corporate-scale deception. There's an extreme insecurity inherent in Capitalism.

But I'm not a proponent of socialism, either. It's also deeply flawed.

 

[Ftaghn To You Too]

snip

First of all pure capitalism is not perfect and their is no pure capitalism.
second capitalism is great because you have the freedom to succeed or the freedom to fail.

You think people only steal in capitalism? wow you are stupid, blaming capitalism for theft.

"But it's so much easier to convince people of the superiority of your product than it is to make a genuinely superior one." So you pick up a candy bar that was advertised as great but its tasted like shit. Are you going to pick up another one?

...why do you want the freedom to fail?

I didn't say Capitalism invented theft. I said it incentivizes it.

And what if you spent your life savings on that candybar? What if we're talking about a house or a car?

icentivizes theft and where is theft not an incentive?

And you answer my question on failure. You always have options in capitalism which you are never given in a system where the government tells you what to do. It is not the fault of capitalism that you didn't do your research before plunging your life savings into something that is bound to fail.

To be honest, I would rather fail with freedom then live in a society where i can't make choices.

Okay, so say your bank burns down with your life savings inside. Or a company is good at hiding reasons not to buy their product. (The entire advertising industry.)

It's still your fault somehow? It's hubristic to think that you will only lose money in ways that are forseeable or make sense.

And the local commune burns down and everyone's livelihood is now gone. Or a worker could put something in the commune which was sub standard, but s/he says it's good because s/he wants to be respected by the community by providing for it.

Not to mention that BANKS DON'T HOLD MONEY. They hold some, but mainly they keep bonds of your money.

Capitalism provides incentive, prevents stagnation, all of that. The ability to fuck up by no fault of your own and have some help can be added, but if it's your fault for a scewup you pay for it. Only you, unless your screwup harmed someone. In that case you'll likely end up in jail.

 

[mechanixis]

All the "I'm free to do anything" stuff people are going on about.

However, I'm not so free to do anything. I'm getting a college education, but there are no jobs available where I live that will make use of it. I also don't make anywhere near enough money at my current job to move elsewhere and find jobs. I'm stuck in a dead end job because it's all there is. Still sound like a wonderful flowers and happiness system?

So you would rather have someone just choose a job for you saying "You do this now. If you don't like it tough luck." instead of having the option to pick your career?

Well it would be more like "What do you like to do? Okay, do that." The state would have no reason to turn all its great minds into janitors, especially if the only remaining motive is 'progress'.

 

[Pimppeter2]

snip

First of all pure capitalism is not perfect and their is no pure capitalism.
second capitalism is great because you have the freedom to succeed or the freedom to fail.

You think people only steal in capitalism? wow you are stupid, blaming capitalism for theft.

"But it's so much easier to convince people of the superiority of your product than it is to make a genuinely superior one." So you pick up a candy bar that was advertised as great but its tasted like shit. Are you going to pick up another one?

...why do you want the freedom to fail?

I didn't say Capitalism invented theft. I said it incentivizes it.

And what if you spent your life savings on that candybar? What if we're talking about a house or a car?

icentivizes theft and where is theft not an incentive?

And you answer my question on failure. You always have options in capitalism which you are never given in a system where the government tells you what to do. It is not the fault of capitalism that you didn't do your research before plunging your life savings into something that is bound to fail.

To be honest, I would rather fail with freedom then live in a society where i can't make choices.

Okay, so say your bank burns down with your life savings inside. Or a company is good at hiding reasons not to buy their product. (The entire advertising industry.)

It's still your fault somehow? It's hubristic to think that you will only lose money in ways that are forseeable or make sense.

And the local commune burns down and everyone's livelihood is now gone. Or a worker could put something in the commune which was sub standard, but s/he says it's good because s/he wants to be respected by the community by providing for it.

Still, your entire commune burning down is a lot less likely. In Capitalism, a person's livelihood often comes down to a line of code in their bank account. If one person creates something and misrepresents it, that's one product and one customer, as opposed to a national, corporate-scale deception. There's an extreme insecurity inherent in Capitalism.

But I'm not a proponent of socialism, either. It's also deeply flawed.

Re-read the bold part. You have it backwards.

Plus, you do realize that your money is protected in the bank right? If the bank burns down you don't lose all your cash.

 

[Pegghead]

Well the fact that we have the police and soup kitchens debunks your arguments of theft and not being able to afford the things necessary to survive.

In a completely capitalist society there would be no police or military, there would only be mercenaries and other private defense contractors. You would only be protected from theft to the extent you could protect yourself.

Well if any form of political ideology was implemented in its extremity then the area of power would fall to shit.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

snip

First of all pure capitalism is not perfect and their is no pure capitalism.
second capitalism is great because you have the freedom to succeed or the freedom to fail.

You think people only steal in capitalism? wow you are stupid, blaming capitalism for theft.

"But it's so much easier to convince people of the superiority of your product than it is to make a genuinely superior one." So you pick up a candy bar that was advertised as great but its tasted like shit. Are you going to pick up another one?

...why do you want the freedom to fail?

I didn't say Capitalism invented theft. I said it incentivizes it.

And what if you spent your life savings on that candybar? What if we're talking about a house or a car?

icentivizes theft and where is theft not an incentive?

And you answer my question on failure. You always have options in capitalism which you are never given in a system where the government tells you what to do. It is not the fault of capitalism that you didn't do your research before plunging your life savings into something that is bound to fail.

To be honest, I would rather fail with freedom then live in a society where i can't make choices.

Okay, so say your bank burns down with your life savings inside. Or a company is good at hiding reasons not to buy their product. (The entire advertising industry.)

It's still your fault somehow? It's hubristic to think that you will only lose money in ways that are forseeable or make sense.

And the local commune burns down and everyone's livelihood is now gone. Or a worker could put something in the commune which was sub standard, but s/he says it's good because s/he wants to be respected by the community by providing for it.

Still, your entire commune burning down is a lot less likely. In Capitalism, a person's livelihood often comes down to a line of code in their bank account. If one person creates something and misrepresents it, that's one product and one customer, as opposed to a national, corporate-scale deception. There's an extreme insecurity inherent in Capitalism.

But I'm not a proponent of socialism, either. It's also deeply flawed.

Why is a commune less likely to burn down than a bank? Are communes built out of asbestos? Are all banks doused in oil?

And what's to stop other people from making sub standard products? If any body can do it, why not?

 

[crimsonshrouds]

snip

First of all pure capitalism is not perfect and their is no pure capitalism.
second capitalism is great because you have the freedom to succeed or the freedom to fail.

You think people only steal in capitalism? wow you are stupid, blaming capitalism for theft.

"But it's so much easier to convince people of the superiority of your product than it is to make a genuinely superior one." So you pick up a candy bar that was advertised as great but its tasted like shit. Are you going to pick up another one?

...why do you want the freedom to fail?

I didn't say Capitalism invented theft. I said it incentivizes it.

And what if you spent your life savings on that candybar? What if we're talking about a house or a car?

icentivizes theft and where is theft not an incentive?

And you answer my question on failure. You always have options in capitalism which you are never given in a system where the government tells you what to do. It is not the fault of capitalism that you didn't do your research before plunging your life savings into something that is bound to fail.

To be honest, I would rather fail with freedom then live in a society where i can't make choices.

Okay, so say your bank burns down with your life savings inside. Or a company is good at hiding reasons not to buy their product. (The entire advertising industry.)

It's still your fault somehow? It's hubristic to think that you will only lose money in ways that are forseeable or make sense.

Ok were not talking about failure anymore. you are talking about misfortunes and making crap up at this point. When the automakers found out that their cars had a fault what did they do? Have you ever worked in retail? When company finds out they messed up on a product they have what we call "recalls"

If a company knowingly lies about something to sell a product they can be sued and the publicity will not do anything good for their stocks. A company is less likely to lie now than they would have about a hundred years ago.

Their is insurance for your house for fires if you don't have it that's your fault.

Blaming misfortunes on capitalism is just plain sad and your arguement gets very thin.

 

[benoitowns]

I like capitalism because I like freedom. Freedom to buy and sell stuff is good. I like being able to go to a store and spend money for what I want.