Why do people say that Capitalism is good?

[mechanixis]

All the "I'm free to do anything" stuff people are going on about.

However, I'm not so free to do anything. I'm getting a college education, but there are no jobs available where I live that will make use of it. I also don't make anywhere near enough money at my current job to move elsewhere and find jobs. I'm stuck in a dead end job because it's all there is. Still sound like a wonderful flowers and happiness system?

So you would rather have someone just choose a job for you saying "You do this now. If you don't like it tough luck." instead of having the option to pick your career?

Well it would be more like "What do you like to do? Okay, do that." The state would have no reason to turn all its great minds into janitors, especially if the only remaining motive is 'progress'.

So the state picks you job based on what they want you to do in order to "progress".

So where does choice come in? What if I'm a smart person but I want to be a lazy janitor for my entire life? The state is going to force me to do something I don't want to do?

If you want to a lazy janitor then you're going to make a lousy quantum physicist, regardless of how smart you are. And the system takes that into account.

How does it do that? Ohh, and fairy dust isn't an answer.

You're telling me the state magically knows the best career for you?

Well, you could tell them, if you're certain of what motivates you. The government isn't out to get you for the sake of screwing you over.

Being able to choose what you do isn't somehow caused by Capitalism. They're completely independent.

 

[Mcupobob]

Charites duh, in a "True Capitalist" Society Charites would help the homeless/sick/cripple but due to human nature we can't have this as most charites would be correpted or have no funds to sustain themselvs, so it must be balanced out with goverement and socialism which i'm fine with.

Are you aware how many charities there actually are in the US alone? There are amazing amounts of private charities everywhere in this great nation. Also, government is no less fallible than people that might be running those charities.

In fact I would almost be tempted to argue that the government would be MORE likely to be corrupted, but there is no actual evidence to support it, so I won't. Suffice to say, government in any country is subject to massive corruption, with private charities, at least you spread the risk out so that fewer people are affected if there are a few bad apples. When a government "sells its people down the river" each and every one of its people are truly screwed.

Yes and if it weren't for goverement programs regulating them then they would fall apart or become corrupt. I like Captilism and would love to see a True captilist society where people help other people due to there own free will and compasion, but most don't or make flimsly exucuse, sure a good number of them makes money but none of us can say for sure that when we donate to the redcross if its going to help people or buy some more coke for the big heads and even with govemement regulations its still iffy but thankful there will always be muckrackers out there(sorry lost my train of though).

 

[JWW]

Capitalists don't want the market to be completely unregulated (at least, the vast majority want some regulation); I'll admit that the system is required to be regulated to some degree (certainly not enough to be called "socialist").

Capitalism is good because it works. At the present time, it is the best economic system to sustain a society. I'll admit that people do get hurt and people do get screwed over, but it is the still the best economic system that we have created.

 

[mechanixis]

This is in response to the thread "Why do people say that Capitalism is 'good in theory'?" The fact that Capitalism, and its beloved nephew the Free Market, are held up as the greatest socioeconomic system by so many people confuses me to no end.

Okay, so first of all, let's talk about money.

Money is something you get for working to better society. It is a representation of how much you have contributed. This is the crux of Capitalism: the harder you work, the more money you get. And then you get to take that 'work' and translate it into goods - food, housing, a new car. So, with money as an incentive, it's believed that people will compete to be the best in their field, so they receive the most money.

So my first gripe is, money represents work. But it isn't work itself. You can acquire money without working. You can rob someone, for instance. In fact, if you can get away with it, it's much easier to rob someone than it is to make the same amount of money through your own labors. See investment loan scandals. Because money is an end in itself, there's no incentive not to steal it - in fact, there's an incentive to do so. It's the path of least resistance.
The idea behind the free market is "If the market has no regulation, then people will only buy the best products, and therefore people will be incentivized to make better and better products." But it's so much easier to convince people of the superiority of your product than it is to make a genuinely superior one.

Secondly, in hardcore Capitalism, you need to pay for everything. This includes food, water, shelter, healthcare. Let's think about this for a moment. Without these things, we literally will die. So if you don't have money, you can't stay alive. Money = lifeforce. So if you're unable to work, or lose all your money in an unforseeable calamity - say, you've been robbed - you're fucked. Is it too much to ask that we not live on the fucking edge all our lives? Isn't the purpose of society in general to remove the burdens of survival through community?

Capitalism incentivizes the stealing of people's lifeforce.

And that's really the root of the issue here.

I have so many problems with this yet I cant help but agree, sort of.

Firstly I do not work to better society, I work in a casino as a dealer. People attempt to win money from the casino, my job while not officially to take it, is to take it. (Officially its to deal the game to procedure)

But you have hit the nail on the head, we must work to live and so we live to work. But one thing you do not mention in your post is alternative? Really is communism a better choice. Is there another option im not aware of.

Well the thing is a casino couldn't exist in a society that wasn't built around the concept of wealth. Gambling is capitalism in short: sometimes you win money and sometimes you don't, and while it depends largely on the hand you're dealt, you can influence it a little based on how savvy you are.

I think the solution is an intergrated system of socialism and capitalism - citizen's needs, and their associated industries, are provided by the state, but entrepreneurial and entertainment industries are all driven by the market.

 

[crimsonshrouds]

snip

First of all pure capitalism is not perfect and their is no pure capitalism.
second capitalism is great because you have the freedom to succeed or the freedom to fail.

You think people only steal in capitalism? wow you are stupid, blaming capitalism for theft.

"But it's so much easier to convince people of the superiority of your product than it is to make a genuinely superior one." So you pick up a candy bar that was advertised as great but its tasted like shit. Are you going to pick up another one?

...why do you want the freedom to fail?

I didn't say Capitalism invented theft. I said it incentivizes it.

And what if you spent your life savings on that candybar? What if we're talking about a house or a car?

icentivizes theft and where is theft not an incentive?

And you answer my question on failure. You always have options in capitalism which you are never given in a system where the government tells you what to do. It is not the fault of capitalism that you didn't do your research before plunging your life savings into something that is bound to fail.

To be honest, I would rather fail with freedom then live in a society where i can't make choices.

Okay, so say your bank burns down with your life savings inside. Or a company is good at hiding reasons not to buy their product. (The entire advertising industry.)

It's still your fault somehow? It's hubristic to think that you will only lose money in ways that are forseeable or make sense.

Ok were not talking about failure anymore. you are talking about misfortunes and making crap up at this point. When the automakers found out that their cars had a fault what did they do? Have you ever worked in retail? When company finds out they messed up on a product they have what we call "recalls"

If a company knowingly lies about something to sell a product they can be sued and the publicity will not do anything good for their stocks. A company is less likely to lie now than they would have about a hundred years ago.

Their is insurance for your house for fires if you don't have it that's your fault.

Blaming misfortunes on capitalism is just plain sad and your arguement gets very thin.

What I'm saying is that Capitalism is very bad at containing misfortune. Corporations ensure that sudden calamities or other incidents aren't isolated, they're nationwide. If you work in the carriage industry and the car is invented, everyone in your industry is now royally fucked - unless you have a backup skillset you've been cultivating, you're going to work for minimum wage until you're eighty to pay your bills.

Ok you really backpeddled there.
So the people start working in that industry that is developing or as people have been doing in these recent economic times are getting better education and more skill sets for jobs.

You think their would be no fallout from a change like that in a communist or socialist system? You are making a lot of false assumptions here.

The larger a system no matter what it is, if their is a huge failure their is going to be massive fallout. Think of a clock full of gears if one gear is out of alignment the clock doesn't work. So if a government is supporting every body then a large amount of people lose their jobs for whatever reason. That government is going to be put under a huge amount of strain and will be unable to support everybody like it was established.

 

[Housebroken Lunatic]

Capitalism doesn't mean that the law doesn't exist.

Yes, complete free market capitalism works. Nothing in its pure form works, but Capitalism is the best economic policy that gives people the most freedom.

It's all just an illusion. The poor and the downtrodden desperately clinging to the HOPE of striking it rich but never really do can attest to that. And they outnumber all the "free" people who actually live with decent living standards.

Showing that capitalism doesn't care for society in general, it only caters to a very small minority...

 

[mechanixis]

snip

First of all pure capitalism is not perfect and their is no pure capitalism.
second capitalism is great because you have the freedom to succeed or the freedom to fail.

You think people only steal in capitalism? wow you are stupid, blaming capitalism for theft.

"But it's so much easier to convince people of the superiority of your product than it is to make a genuinely superior one." So you pick up a candy bar that was advertised as great but its tasted like shit. Are you going to pick up another one?

...why do you want the freedom to fail?

I didn't say Capitalism invented theft. I said it incentivizes it.

And what if you spent your life savings on that candybar? What if we're talking about a house or a car?

icentivizes theft and where is theft not an incentive?

And you answer my question on failure. You always have options in capitalism which you are never given in a system where the government tells you what to do. It is not the fault of capitalism that you didn't do your research before plunging your life savings into something that is bound to fail.

To be honest, I would rather fail with freedom then live in a society where i can't make choices.

Okay, so say your bank burns down with your life savings inside. Or a company is good at hiding reasons not to buy their product. (The entire advertising industry.)

It's still your fault somehow? It's hubristic to think that you will only lose money in ways that are forseeable or make sense.

Ok were not talking about failure anymore. you are talking about misfortunes and making crap up at this point. When the automakers found out that their cars had a fault what did they do? Have you ever worked in retail? When company finds out they messed up on a product they have what we call "recalls"

If a company knowingly lies about something to sell a product they can be sued and the publicity will not do anything good for their stocks. A company is less likely to lie now than they would have about a hundred years ago.

Their is insurance for your house for fires if you don't have it that's your fault.

Blaming misfortunes on capitalism is just plain sad and your arguement gets very thin.

What I'm saying is that Capitalism is very bad at containing misfortune. Corporations ensure that sudden calamities or other incidents aren't isolated, they're nationwide. If you work in the carriage industry and the car is invented, everyone in your industry is now royally fucked - unless you have a backup skillset you've been cultivating, you're going to work for minimum wage until you're eighty to pay your bills.

Ok you really backpeddled there.
So the people start working in that industry that is developing or as people have been doing in these recent economic times are getting better education and more skill sets for jobs.

You think their would be no fallout from a change like that in a communist or socialist system? You are making a lot of false assumptions here.

The larger a system no matter what it is, if their is a huge failure their is going to be massive fallout. Think of a clock full of gears if one gear is out of alignment the clock doesn't work. So if a government is supporting every body then a large amount of people lose their jobs for whatever reason. That government is going to be put under a huge amount of strain and will be unable to support everybody like it was established.

Alright, alright, granted. There's going to be fallout regardless.

How about this: you're born poor. You aren't a genius with a brilliant new invention. You can't afford an education. The most you can hope to do is work a minimum wage job and scrape by. Is this deserved?

 

[Dys]

snip

First of all pure capitalism is not perfect and their is no pure capitalism.
second capitalism is great because you have the freedom to succeed or the freedom to fail.

You think people only steal in capitalism? wow you are stupid, blaming capitalism for theft.

"But it's so much easier to convince people of the superiority of your product than it is to make a genuinely superior one." So you pick up a candy bar that was advertised as great but its tasted like shit. Are you going to pick up another one?

...why do you want the freedom to fail?

I didn't say Capitalism invented theft. I said it incentivizes it.

And what if you spent your life savings on that candybar? What if we're talking about a house or a car?

icentivizes theft and where is theft not an incentive?

And you answer my question on failure. You always have options in capitalism which you are never given in a system where the government tells you what to do. It is not the fault of capitalism that you didn't do your research before plunging your life savings into something that is bound to fail.

To be honest, I would rather fail with freedom then live in a society where i can't make choices.

You seem to misunderstand how an ideal capitalist system works. If someone can monopolize everything (which is inevitable over a long enough period of time, as smart investments with already existing capital will always make more money than hard work) then the overwhelming majority of the people end up living in a way that is definitively not free. Then someone asshole starts a revolution because they can't handle living purely for the profit of someone else leading to the community collapsing.

Sure, when it's controlled capitalist ideals can motivate people to work and ultimately benefit society. Amazingly, despite right wing bias, socialist traits can help keep people who are struggling alive long enough that hey find a job or somehow make themselves a useful contribute to society. I feel the need to point out that western society has more socialist traits and laws than capitalist ones, and western countries are by far the wealthiest and best off. It's a balancing act and it's stupid when people try and claim that capitalism is synonymous with freedom, it simply is not.

First of all pure capitalism is not perfect and their is no pure capitalism.
second capitalism is great because you have the freedom to succeed or the freedom to fail.

In totalitarian systems (not capitalism) people are free to suceed (escape, overthrow government etc) or fail (die). Success and failure are determined by goals, and is in no way related to economics.

You think people only steal in capitalism? wow you are stupid, blaming capitalism for theft.

Nobody "blamed capitalism for theft", he merely pointed out it encourages it. Fuck, he didn't even say anything outside of a perfect textbook utopia would be any different, simply that capitalism encourages theft. Which it does. You reading too far into someones post hardly makes them stupid.

"But it's so much easier to convince people of the superiority of your product than it is to make a genuinely superior one." So you pick up a candy bar that was advertised as great but its tasted like shit. Are you going to pick up another one?

Ever met anyone who's had more than one xbox 360 or iphone? Guess what, they are inferior products sold purely by marketing (especially the iphone 3g) and people remain loyal to them. It only tastes like shit if you choose to ignore everyone telling you it's chocolate.

The cold hard truth is capitalism is just as bad, if not worse, than Stalinist. Industrial revolution Britain wasn't the nicest place to live, it was because conditions were so bad there, and because the super rich were unrestricted in what they were allowed to capitalize one that people dream up the ideas of socialism and distribution of wealth. In the absolute, there's no way capitalism can ever benefit anyone who wasn't born into wealth. It's stupid how American culture seems to love "capitalism" so much and hate socialism, despite the overwhelming majority of the population being completely unaware that their society resembles neither.

Because its the system we use, and, more importantly, it works. The Cold War was Communism vs. Capitalism, not truly an armed conflict so much as a competition on who can be more sucessful. In short, capitalism won, as America Demonstrates by being a dominant economic power, even China has adopted a kind of government run capitalism(its wierd nyoro~) and its growing exponentially(that and they cheat with a fixed currency rate, the cheaters) Capitalism isn't perfect, but it is the most sucessful method in history as of now (im not to clear on the European Socialism vs. true socialism thing, im acting under the impression that Europe blends the two nyoro~) and thats why Capitalism is good!

WHAT!? The cold was was not communism vs capitalism. First of all, Russia was never communist, they were controlled by a totalitarian minority. I could rant on how wrong you are about that for a considerable amount of time, but I'll skip it and go straight to AMERICA AND THE WESTERN WORLD ARE NOT CAPITALISTS, you are not allowed to own anything, things like slavery are illegal, there is consumer protection from false advertising, you're not allowed control a nation press and a national free to air television station (cop that Rupert Murdoch!). These limitations are notably not capitalist, there are very real and very significant limitations on how much influence and by extension wealth you can have.

Also,you're apparently unaware that communism is a political ideology where capitalism is an economic model. Presumably by communism you mean socialism (which Cold war era Russia actually had some traits of, unlike communism).

Also, as I've said several times, capitalism does not work. France had a a crack at it and it went to shit, Britain had a go at it and conditions were horrible. Surely you've heard of the industrial revolution? There's a damn good reason why we elect governments to limit private companies.

 

[Dana22]

In the absolute, there's no way capitalism can ever benefit anyone who wasn't born into wealth.

Thats simply not true.

 

[Ironman126]

"A capitalist can no more give of himself as someone could pick himself up by his boot-straps" - Vladimir Lenin.

Capitalism is a flawed economic system when left to its own devises. The same could be said of Socialism. In Capitalism, the lack of regulations creates a small upper class and a massive lower class. The rich get richer and the poor stagnate. We've seen it before in the US. Look back to the late 1800s and early 1900s.

In Socialism, the regulations themselves can get drastically out of hand. Like that law proposed to have the government enforce video game ratings. While you don't see a huge rift between rich and poor, you can see heavy, and often unnecessary, regulation of markets that would do just fine being left alone, like the movie of video game industries.

Both systems are inherently flawed, Capitalism more so, however. Unregulated Capitalism generally leads to revolution (violent or otherwise) and too much Socialism leads to dictatorship (cite Hitler and the Nazi and i will find you and beat you within an inch of you life. National Socialist Party, or Nazi, was in no sense Socialist.) Take Venezuela for example. Neither system is good by itself. You have to "regulate the regulations" in a sense with Socialism and you have to control the greed in Capitalism. Finding a middle ground has worked well for the US when that balance is maintained. When it isn't, you get the mess we are in now. Thanks a lot Bill and George.

 

[Rafe]

Ok... So if you get robbed of your money in a capitalistic society, you die?

 

[mechanixis]

Capitalism doesn't mean that the law doesn't exist.

Yes, complete free market capitalism works. Nothing in its pure form works, but Capitalism is the best economic policy that gives people the most freedom.

It's all just an illusion. The poor and the downtrodden desperately clinging to the HOPE of striking it rich but never really do can attest to that. And they outnumber all the "free" people who actually live with decent living standards.

Showing that capitalism doesn't care for society in general, it only caters to a very small minority...

YES! Thank you. Absolutely. For the majority of citizens in a capitalist society, there is no hope of advancement. You're born without the money to get an education, and therefore must live hand to mouth for your entire life while those who were simply born more fortunate advance above you. Given the same opportunities, you may have been even more qualified than they are, but you never received such an opportunity.

 

[Arehexes]

Isn't this why shelters and half way homes are made? To help those in need.

Not in a 'True Capitalist' society. There's no profit in it unless the government funds it. How strongly did Americans fight the offer of free healthcare because it was 'socialist'?

There was a lot of people that wanted free healthcare. Some people I knew, wanted to move to Canada. Not everyone is a sociopath looking to swindle people for survival means. There are good people in this world.

Also plan those sociopath not reading the bill and thinking Obama wanted "death panels" and I'm going on recording saying that was bad freaking ass (not how it started or what it caused or what they thought it was for, I was making a costume and when I heard it I thought Star Wars).

 

[Housebroken Lunatic]

Alright, alright, granted. There's going to be fallout regardless.

How about this: you're born poor. You aren't a genius with a brilliant new invention. You can't afford an education.

This of course never happens according to capitalists, due to their religiois belief that every single human being posses exactly the same innate abilities to strike it rich and become a millionaire, thus making it on each single individuals complete resposibility over their wealth.'

But if ever human do possess these qualities, then why aren't everyone in the world filthy rich? I mean, even if you don't really enjoy living like a rock star or hotel chain heir, it would certainly help your day to day life by having a fortune on your bank account. Yet the world isn't like that.

To this the capitalists really don't have any answer, other than blaming the poor for being poor. Also blatantly ignoring the fact that the rich actually has to keep poor people poor in order to stay rich since the very concept of a free market works by taking advantage of people who don't have the means or ability to see that you are actually making a profit of them.

 

[Housebroken Lunatic]

Ok... So if you get robbed of your money in a capitalistic society, you die?

According to capitalist ideals, there's really no reason why anyone should provide you with food when someone has robbed you of your sola bility to procure food, and thuis you'll starve to death... You know, unless you rob someone else that is...

 

[Shameless]

while it has it's problems it is the best way to live

 

[mechanixis]

Isn't this why shelters and half way homes are made? To help those in need.

Not in a 'True Capitalist' society. There's no profit in it unless the government funds it. How strongly did Americans fight the offer of free healthcare because it was 'socialist'?

There was a lot of people that wanted free healthcare. Some people I knew, wanted to move to Canada. Not everyone is a sociopath looking to swindle people for survival means. There are good people in this world.

I never said their weren't. But isn't it kind of shocking that it was even a debate?

 

[Housebroken Lunatic]

while it has it's problems it is the best way to live

That's an opinion, not a fact. And I for one completely disagree...

 

[Dana22]

We've seen it before in the US. Look back to the late 1800s and early 1900s.

Which happens in capitalism. Great depression lasted 20 years, but after that, the great prosperity of US lasted 40 (1940-1980).

 

[crimsonshrouds]

snip

First of all pure capitalism is not perfect and their is no pure capitalism.
second capitalism is great because you have the freedom to succeed or the freedom to fail.

You think people only steal in capitalism? wow you are stupid, blaming capitalism for theft.

"But it's so much easier to convince people of the superiority of your product than it is to make a genuinely superior one." So you pick up a candy bar that was advertised as great but its tasted like shit. Are you going to pick up another one?

...why do you want the freedom to fail?

I didn't say Capitalism invented theft. I said it incentivizes it.

And what if you spent your life savings on that candybar? What if we're talking about a house or a car?

icentivizes theft and where is theft not an incentive?

And you answer my question on failure. You always have options in capitalism which you are never given in a system where the government tells you what to do. It is not the fault of capitalism that you didn't do your research before plunging your life savings into something that is bound to fail.

To be honest, I would rather fail with freedom then live in a society where i can't make choices.

Okay, so say your bank burns down with your life savings inside. Or a company is good at hiding reasons not to buy their product. (The entire advertising industry.)

It's still your fault somehow? It's hubristic to think that you will only lose money in ways that are forseeable or make sense.

Ok were not talking about failure anymore. you are talking about misfortunes and making crap up at this point. When the automakers found out that their cars had a fault what did they do? Have you ever worked in retail? When company finds out they messed up on a product they have what we call "recalls"

If a company knowingly lies about something to sell a product they can be sued and the publicity will not do anything good for their stocks. A company is less likely to lie now than they would have about a hundred years ago.

Their is insurance for your house for fires if you don't have it that's your fault.

Blaming misfortunes on capitalism is just plain sad and your arguement gets very thin.

What I'm saying is that Capitalism is very bad at containing misfortune. Corporations ensure that sudden calamities or other incidents aren't isolated, they're nationwide. If you work in the carriage industry and the car is invented, everyone in your industry is now royally fucked - unless you have a backup skillset you've been cultivating, you're going to work for minimum wage until you're eighty to pay your bills.

Ok you really backpeddled there.
So the people start working in that industry that is developing or as people have been doing in these recent economic times are getting better education and more skill sets for jobs.

You think their would be no fallout from a change like that in a communist or socialist system? You are making a lot of false assumptions here.

The larger a system no matter what it is, if their is a huge failure their is going to be massive fallout. Think of a clock full of gears if one gear is out of alignment the clock doesn't work. So if a government is supporting every body then a large amount of people lose their jobs for whatever reason. That government is going to be put under a huge amount of strain and will be unable to support everybody like it was established.

Alright, alright, granted. There's going to be fallout regardless.

How about this: you're born poor. You aren't a genius with a brilliant new invention. You can't afford an education. The most you can hope to do is work a minimum wage job and scrape by. Is this deserved?

Ok more false assumptions and i have to get off im sleepy.
So i guess in our society right now thier are no ways to better yourself.
Wow!
Public schooling sucks but at least now you are given free chances to learn to read and write.
Now whether you wish to make your self smarter and get out of working minimum wage or not is your choice.

I cannot remember the man's name but he was a slave in the south and he did everything he could to learn how to read and he fled to the north where he put his new found skills to work. i will hopefully remember this man's name when i get some sleep.

This is why i love responsibility it is always the individuals burden. People better themselves all the time and then there are people who do not and make excuses saying they are disadvantaged.

Their is always a choice and the responsibility is weighed on the person and that is why people flee to government control. They fear responsibility. Edit now i remember its frederick douglass.