Why do people think it's ok to pirate games?

[Assassin Xaero]

I have been thinking about this for a while now and can't seem to come up with a good reason why someone would pirate a game.

Somehow I do see how this goes with the title... there is a difference between doing something and thinking it is ok to do something. I used to pirate stuff, mostly music, but don't anymore. Why I pirated games:
World in Conflict - Demo was too short and couldn't figure out if I liked the game or not. (now own in Steam)
Jericho - Wanted to try it and not lose money if it sucked. (now own in Steam)
Painkiller - Couldn't find it in stores anyway. (now own in Steam)
Undying - Wanted to try it, but couldn't find it anywhere. Would buy it if I could find it.
Quake II - Don't remember, but I bought it on Steam with Quake and Quake III Arena.

 

[Cody211282]

I understand that but that's not what I was trying to say, I was saying that it was wrong to steal it, and they are no way entitled to free games.

can you not read?
THAT WAS NOT WHAT I TRIED TO SAY EITHER.

I said it was WRONG to steal it and I said gaming was not a right.

Why do you persist in arguing with me when I essentially said i agreed with you? -_-

I know what you were saying and I was stating what I was trying to say since it didn't come out right the first time, I wasn't arguing with you and if I gave off that I was I am sorry for not saying it right.

 

[Bloodeye]

1. Release dates here can be months/years behind U.S/Japan/Europe.

2. Games may banned or censored.

3. For some reason our games cost more to buy then pretty much everywhere else.

Despite this I don't actually own any pirated games but that's more because I'm too lazy to get my console chipped than because I think its wrong. I can totally understand someone doing it for any of the reasons mentioned above.

 

[Kagim]

To all the people saying:

"Piracy isn't stealing because your not actually taking anything from them and it doesn't cost them money"

I'd like to ask you if you would be okay with someone hacking your computer and copying all your private information and turning around and distributing it. Would you be happy if someone accessed your computer and had copies of everything on it. Its the same thing. Taking information that doesn't belong to you. Regardless if its classified as "stealing" or not what your doing is wrong.(To cut you off, just because movie,music and game data isn't "private" information doesn't change anything. Its still data, which is what were discussing)

That's like saying raping someone is okay because its not arson.(I am not comparing severity simply pointing out the weak argument). If someone copied all your private and/or creative works and freely distributed them you would be pissed.

There are only a few instances where this should be legal.

1) There is absolutely NO way to obtain the data and pay the company who deserves it. I.E A discontinued game you can only find on E bay. I feel if a company willingly stops production of a product that product should become public property. Same with companies that go out of business. If there is NO legitimate ways to purchase it then fine. I can accept this. Second hand isn't always an option, namely for PC games(which can not be traded in) and old movies.

2) Your medium(Dvd,cd,blue-ray) is destroyed. As long as you get a product of equal value. Blizzard does this(and so should every company. In the age of the internet not having this system is inexcusable). If you register your game you can literally lose everything in a fire but if you remember your Battle-net account info all your games are yours for life. There is no reason why i shouldn't be able to register my games to my PSN account and own them for life.

3) There should be ways to trial test all media before buying. Since most games have an open box = no return policy I would like to see Timer Demo's again. Let us play the game for 3 hours then see if we want to buy it. I wish people could be trusted to download a game then buy it if they like it but clearly they can't. With Itunes on demand movie rentals for 2 bucks stealing movies to "just see if you like them" is null. Two bucks. If your to cheap for two bucks your either still in highschool or a massive tightwad.

Finally I realize DRM is horrendous. I am not on their side. That doesn't make pirating right. That's like robbing James because Jimmy robbed you. In the end the people who get screwed are the players and retailers. Not the companies. Pirating isn't "sticking it to the man" its sticking it to your local EB that barely makes 15% off the game. The players? DRM is just going to get worse and worse. Its an arms race. Companies with millions of dollars and man power versus Teenagers. It's the reason I see more people walk away from PC gaming. Where PC gamers get consistently screwed with DRM the console counterparts are safe. You want to know where Star Craft 2's Lan play went? Look at hackers. You want to know where this always online, even in single player came from? Look at hackers. These are all reactive actions.

Its hard to deny it. I am sure someone is going to come give me shit and justify having thousands of dollars of music, movies and video games on their computer they took for free. It honestly just depress me however. It never fails to amaze me the sort of things people can justify doing. As well the shear amount of personal attack i always receive.

Honestly though. Nothing pisses me off more then the excuse, "I can't afford it".

I can't afford a lot of things. Does that make me entitled to them? No. Physical or digital.

 

[Cody211282]

I have been thinking about this for a while now and can't seem to come up with a good reason why someone would pirate a game. My line of thinking is since you didn't pay for it your stealing, and well stealing is wrong and a criminal action thus don't pirate game. But there has to be a reason so many people pirate games, maybe I just don't get it or haven't heard the right reason, "Because I can" "I don't have the money to spend on games/don't want to spend money on games" are the ones I hear most and they are not even that good of reasons to do it.
So I was wondering if anyone else had an incite or have heard a good argument for it?

A good argument? Well, simply put, it isn't stealing. If I go out and steal a car, then I am taking a car away from someone else. If, however, I pirate a game/movie/song, the company that made it isn't losing anything, I'm just not giving them my money.

Sure, if you have the money to pay for the game, go ahead and pay for it and support the company that made it. But in a situation like mine, where your choices are either spend your food money on video games, don't buy any new games, or download a copy of it for free, then (I hate using this term) it's a victimless crime.

Once I have the time to get a full time job, and can afford more than the very basic necessities, I will go back to paying for my games in an effort to ensure those companies will keep making games, but until then I will pirate without regret because of the knowledge that I'm not hurting anyone or anything in doing so.

Well as i stated before it is stealing, you taking something you didn't pay for I know your not physically taking something from the company but the idea is the same, you think you deserve something you can't pay for and take it upon yourself to commit a theft and take the game you want. I don't have much money now, so I don't buy games ether, what I do is look for a job and wait until I have the money to buy what I want.

How is it still stealing if no loss is suffered on the part of the developer in the process? It would be like saying that taking a picture of the statue of liberty rather than taking the tour is stealing because it cost money to make the statue of liberty, right? So taking a picture, and thus getting to see the statue of liberty for free, rather than paying for a tour is obviously wrong. See the problem in logic there?

To clarify: you can't steal something that's infinitely copyable at no cost, when you didn't intend to pay for said copy in the first place. No loss is suffered by the developer under those circumstances.

It's stealing because you took/copied something without paying for it, that this has monetary value thus you stole it.

For the Statue of Liberty picture argument please see my argument about the Mona Lisa.

 

[Mortons4ck]

[greedy ass companies and artists] don't need to make millions of dollars a year so they can buy the moon, or enough cocaine to give them a heart attack

But it would be nice if they could pay their programmers more than starvation wages so said programmers could send their kids to college.

The average programmer makes around $30k a year. Yeah...real "starvation" wages there. I barely even make $15k a year.

Which is about 60% of the American median household income ($50k). Them children ain't goin' to college any time soon.

 

[Cody211282]

there is a set of things that are right and wrong, stealing is wrong, killing is wrong, rape is wrong. You sir should have known this by know.

Moral relativism FTW. What if you killed someone who was highly likely to cause more death and overall human misery than you ever would just by killing him alone? At its core an action is just an action and 'good' an 'evil' are arbitrary tags tacked on by an observer from their skewed perspective or unique definition.

Yet again I have stated my argument for this, It had to do for killing Hitler. I'll quickly summarize with doing something evil to save lives is justified and probably good depending on who you ask, doing something evil for personal gain/gratification is still evil.

 

[Cody211282]

snip

Because they charge too much for games that are of a low standard compared to the technology available. If I'm gonna be paying close to $80 for some games I want Final fantasy the spirits within type graphics, where EVERY HAIR is animated. Not some crap twaddle that of year 2000 standards.

People feel they are getting seriously ripped off for the standard they are recieving, thus why they have not ill feelings towards making unliscenced copies.

EDIT: You wouldnt buy a Lada for £20k would you? Or hell even a ford escort for £20k either, hell not even a brand new Skoda costs £20k.

Then just don't buy the game, pirating a copy because you don't feel like paying is still not an excuse ether pay to play the game or don't pay and don't play the game.

 

[jasoncyrus]

snip

To be honest nothing pisses me off more than people assuming I can shell out $60 for a game everytime. Not even 3 hour movies with better graphics, story writing, and generally better entertainment abilities, cost this much.

Plus as I stated before. For the technology available, they are putting out a pretty shitty level of quality in their games. So no, I won't horrendous prices for slop when they can make me prime steak instead.

snip

It amazes me how people will say stuff like this and just lay down and let companies force feed them tripe and let themselves have to deal with low quality crap. This is why half the games that come out are lacking originality and quality.

 

[teebeeohh]

i used to pirate games cause i wanted to play them but didnt have the money or my parents wouldnt prove of me playing those games

now i pirate games to check them out, if i like em i will usually buy them(even if this might take a while) or i won't if they are crap.

I don't buy all the games i Download but hey, I bought about 300 games in the past 15 years(this covers multiple platforms but mostly PC games and whatever the latest portable from nintendo is)

 

[Cody211282]

Well I have a friend who bought like 1-2 games this decade. The rest he downloads. Yay. Anyways, I got into a conversation with him and basically told him "alright dude, I get it you don't want to pay for games. But at least support the developers you like. Buy the games you like. Wouldn't that be a fair comprimise?"

He replied: "No. I'm not giving my money to the wrong people. The money should go to the developers, not the greedy assholes who run the distributing companies".

So I respond, "it's still stealing and you're still hurting the people who has to eat like you and me. Maybe think about that comprimise idea I suggested?"

He retorts: "No. The industry has to change before I start giving my money. I'm not giving it to bloodsuckers."

The conversation in a nutshell. I got a little heated, as I always do but in the end we came up with one thing: Mass Effect 2 was great.

In all seriousness, I try convince as many people as I can to start bying. But I suppose their arguements are valid? I mean, I do agree that I do not want to give people like Kotick my money. They seem much more comfortable in my pocket. On the other hand, as I mentioned, people have to fucking eat. The whole "industry in another direction" part broke down to: the distributers have to fuck off and let real people with real love for games make games. And THEY are the ones that should get the money. This I completely agree on.

In fact, I might be converted officially again. What you do think?

I don't like giving people like Kotick my money ether, so I don't buy their games and I also don't pirate them, it's called self control.

 

[lasherman]

I have been thinking about this for a while now and can't seem to come up with a good reason why someone would pirate a game. My line of thinking is since you didn't pay for it your stealing, and well stealing is wrong and a criminal action thus don't pirate game. But there has to be a reason so many people pirate games, maybe I just don't get it or haven't heard the right reason, "Because I can" "I don't have the money to spend on games/don't want to spend money on games" are the ones I hear most and they are not even that good of reasons to do it.
So I was wondering if anyone else had an incite or have heard a good argument for it?

A good argument? Well, simply put, it isn't stealing. If I go out and steal a car, then I am taking a car away from someone else. If, however, I pirate a game/movie/song, the company that made it isn't losing anything, I'm just not giving them my money.

Sure, if you have the money to pay for the game, go ahead and pay for it and support the company that made it. But in a situation like mine, where your choices are either spend your food money on video games, don't buy any new games, or download a copy of it for free, then (I hate using this term) it's a victimless crime.

Once I have the time to get a full time job, and can afford more than the very basic necessities, I will go back to paying for my games in an effort to ensure those companies will keep making games, but until then I will pirate without regret because of the knowledge that I'm not hurting anyone or anything in doing so.

Well as i stated before it is stealing, you taking something you didn't pay for I know your not physically taking something from the company but the idea is the same, you think you deserve something you can't pay for and take it upon yourself to commit a theft and take the game you want. I don't have much money now, so I don't buy games ether, what I do is look for a job and wait until I have the money to buy what I want.

Yeah, but it isn't really "taking something you didn't pay for", it's taking a copy of something you didn't pay for. If you go out to a museum and snap a photo of the Mona Lisa, you now have a copy of the Mona Lisa which you didn't pay for, but would you consider that stealing?

Personally, I'm curious as to why you are so against pirating at all. Specifically in the situation I mentioned where someone is only pirating because they just can't afford to buy a copy.

I understand being opposed to pirating if you can easily afford to pay for it, or if you want to support a developer, but what is so wrong about taking a copy of something you wouldn't have paid money for in the first place? Even if you were to consider this stealing, surely you can admit that in this situation there is no actual negative impact on anyone?

Yes it's a copy, it is also something you didn't pay for that you should have thus stealing.

For the Mona Lisa picture, it would be more accurate to say an exact replica, and they are very expensive, the picture analogy is sorta how Arcane Asylums DRM worked, you got the game but you are missing a few thing(like jumping).

I'm against pirating for the simple reason of it's wrong, it's illegal and it makes people think they are entitled for things they don't work for. I am probably one of a very small amount of people who think if something is wrong then you shouldn't do it, and it's as simple as that.

Fine, you didn't like my Mona Lisa example, how about this: I see a nice wooden table at a furniture store. Since I have no money, all I do is examine the table, then go home and build an identical table. They are both exactly the same in every way, except that one was very expensive and one was free. What is 'wrong' with building a replica/duplicating/copying something else?

Also, you say you are "against pirating for the simple reason of it's wrong, it's illegal and it makes people think they are entitled for things they don't work for." Why, exactly, is it wrong? Are you only against it for the reason that it's illegal, or do you actually have a personal, well thought out reason for thinking it is wrong? Honestly, if the only reason you are against it is because someone decided to make it illegal, don't you think you should have a better reason than that?

 

[Cody211282]

snip

Ooo ethics debate.

Lets counter that "save the majority" argument with this old dillemma. 100 innocents trapped in a cave, a very fat man is unfortunately stuck in the only way out. It's not his fault, he slipped down a hill and got stuck there on his way home from serving soup at the homeless shelter and giving free computers to terminally ill children. But he is truely stuck.

Now the 100 can either wait it out and hope help comes, which is a it unlikely due to its sheltered location, or they can kill the fat guy, chop him up and escape.

Is the latter really the better solution?

I would rip that guy limb for limb to save the people stuck behind him, but that's different from stealing something for personal gain as I have said before.

 

[4484448444844484]

Steam makes buying games so easy there's no excuse for pirating anymore.

 

[Cody211282]

I understand the not having money thing, I don't have a job so I know the temptation of wanting to take something that isn't mine because I feel it's not fair that I can't have it, well I don't because it's wrong and when I get the money I can buy it. As for turning to piracy because you don't like the DRM or the company making it I'm sorry you ether buy the game and support something you don't agree with and have fun, or you don't make sure the people don't get your money for something you don't think is worth it and just don't play the game, there is no option 3.

Oh? There isn't an option to be a pirate? Gosh what sillyness, for a minute there I thought we were discussing something that wasn't purely theoretical.

From a moral viewpoint where piracy = stealing, there is no alternative to buying

From a practical viewpoint there is, but piracy carries a tiny risk.

Low risk, high reward and to many it's a moral greyzone.

On that note I must leave since it's 4:11 in the morning and I have to go smell flowers in the morning.

Yes I know that practical they can, what I am saying is it is wrong just because something is easy or convenient doesn't make it right.

 

[jasoncyrus]

snip

Agreed, if everyone had that same mindset then alcohol would still be illegal in the united states along with many other things.

 

[Kagim]

snip

To be honest nothing pisses me off more than people assuming I can shell out $60 for a game everytime. Not even 3 hour movies with better graphics, story writing, and generally better entertainment abilities, cost this much.

Plus as I stated before. For the technology available, they are putting out a pretty shitty level of quality in their games. So no, I won't horrendous prices for slop when they can make me prime steak instead.

Translation.

"Its not up to my standard and i think its shit but i will still take it and play it to completion but refuse to pay for it."

That is essentially what you said.

If you don't like it. Don't play it. I fail to see how playing games you apparently think suck justifies not paying for them.

I think my job sucks, can i stay home and still get paid?

I hate my apartment and think its shit, i shouldn't have to pay for it. Technically it doesn't cost my landlord a dime to let me live here for free so i think i am entitled to live here for free because its not up to my standard.

 

[jasoncyrus]

snip

Ooo ethics debate.

Lets counter that "save the majority" argument with this old dillemma. 100 innocents trapped in a cave, a very fat man is unfortunately stuck in the only way out. It's not his fault, he slipped down a hill and got stuck there on his way home from serving soup at the homeless shelter and giving free computers to terminally ill children. But he is truely stuck.

Now the 100 can either wait it out and hope help comes, which is a it unlikely due to its sheltered location, or they can kill the fat guy, chop him up and escape.

Is the latter really the better solution?

I would rip that guy limb for limb to save the people stuck behind him, but that's different from stealing something for personal gain as I have said before.

In all honesty, gaming these days is hardly a personal gain. Games that are actually a gain are few and far between. Red Steel for example. Not a personal gain, Fable 2, not a personal gain, Spore, not a personal gain, most mario games of late, not a personal gain since they're the same shit repackaged. The list goes on.

EDIT: as for ripping our theoretical saint apart to save the people of unnown morals behind him, makes you a bit of a monster.