Why do people think it's ok to pirate games?

[rampantcreature]

No money...or old games. Like the "Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego?" that aren't actually even selling and making money for everyone...but are hard to get access to if you feel nostalgic.

 

[jasoncyrus]

I'm gonna save Cody here and say just one of those people could be a super hero (as I dont believe in god I'm gonna give very far fetched examples, but then again you never said the fictional "incident" happens in our world soooo yeah anyways) or some kind of almighty being (a god) or they could all be priests or they could all be part of the Save a life foundation (dont know if thats an actual thing but I mean the kind of people who help other people in third world countries)

Well then why didn't you simply trim a bit of gut off him then? Sure he'd go into shock if you werent careful but pretty sure he could be saved with today's medical capabilities.

Amazing how people who supposedly have "morals" would kill someone so quickly without exploring all the options.

Actually you know what, instead of "trimming" why not just liposuction?

Unfortunately I don't think most caves come with liposuction machines...I think thats an optional extra.

you'd bring one in, call for help or go get help

Yah but theres a fat guy blocking the only way out. So kinda hard to do that =P

EDIT: I am going to go sleep, I bid you all goodnight.

 

[_Cake_]

Sometimes they want to play old games that can be hard to find. Sometimes they just don't have the money. If they had no way of buying the game in the first place is it better to just never play it? I would rather my work be taken then never seen at all.

 

[Quiet Stranger]

I'm gonna save Cody here and say just one of those people could be a super hero (as I dont believe in god I'm gonna give very far fetched examples, but then again you never said the fictional "incident" happens in our world soooo yeah anyways) or some kind of almighty being (a god) or they could all be priests or they could all be part of the Save a life foundation (dont know if thats an actual thing but I mean the kind of people who help other people in third world countries)

Well then why didn't you simply trim a bit of gut off him then? Sure he'd go into shock if you werent careful but pretty sure he could be saved with today's medical capabilities.

Amazing how people who supposedly have "morals" would kill someone so quickly without exploring all the options.

Actually you know what, instead of "trimming" why not just liposuction?

Unfortunately I don't think most caves come with liposuction machines...I think thats an optional extra.

you'd bring one in, call for help or go get help

Yah but theres a fat guy blocking the only way out. So kinda hard to do that =P

EDIT: I am going to go sleep, I bid you all goodnight.

You never said WE (me and anyone else posting like cody) were in the cave too!

 

[kurupt87]

Err, no it's not that simple. While yes, things like theft and murder are generally accepted and thought of as bad, it's because it inconviences/causes harm to people, and so we are brought up to see these things as wrong.

They are not good or evil in themselves, they are an action that someone has taken. Peoples opinions of the action though, that is what makes something good or bad, and the reasons behind those actions.

I know, I'm bringing up Hitler, but w/e. Killing Hitler before he came into power, that'd be an undeniably good thing to do, right? Imagine the untold millions of lives that would be saved.
Hang on, what about Hitler himself? He sure as shit wouldn't see this as a good thing to do. Neither would Germans of the time before the war, or alot of the world when looking at it morally. He had good policies and ideas when he came to power and was trying to drag Germany out of the shit it was in from after The Great War.

Stealing all the guns from the people that mean us harm is an undeniably good thing, right?
Again, think of the suffering that you'd stop.
From their perspective though it'd be bad, for whatever reason they would have to think that they are in the right, "they" have a reason for opposing the eponymous "us". It's a difference in society at some level, and what the societies hold dear, and it doesn't come down to what is "right", and never will. Such a thing doesn't exist. It comes down to whoever has the biggest stick, and is willing to use it.

I'll start with your killing Hitler argument, this is put in the area of good because you are saving lives by doing it, no he wouldn't like it but since he killed so many people your actions are justified to save the majority.

The problem is what he is saying isn't about saving lives it's about being to lazy to get another hobby or wait until the person has the money, they are doing it for self gratification and that's what makes it wrong.

So you accept that good and bad are human opinions on things, that's good.

I'm sorry, but did you just imply that laziness has something to do with what somebody enjoys? I don't see that myself, at least not in the context you're using. While I can understand a lazy person would not be inclined toward sport, to imply that someone is lazy because they enjoy something and won't change what they enjoy because of that laziness is bizarre.

Doing something else because of financial difficulties is a definite option though, but wouldn't guarantee the amount of enjoyment of your preferred past-time.

Ok, lets ditch the "too poor to buy" person, and look at your average pirate. Now, this person pirates the game because it's free, and has little to no risk involved. This pirate has limited funds, as we all (or most of us) do. The amount of games he pirates would never be equal to the amount games he'd buy if piracy didn't exist, no way. Your normal person will only buy games that they know, or strongly hope, they will enjoy. A pirate will pirate various games on very little basis, games which he'd never buy. It, again, comes down to a lose/lose for the developer, either way no one anyway gets any benefit from it, apart from the pirate.

Your issue it seems, is that the pirate gains, not that the developers lose out. This is a non starter for a point of view really. The central point of your argument is that this unknown pirate gains from doing something that you consider bad and won't do. Also in some cases, that they gain from something that they got for free something that you paid for. Can you not look at that dispassionatly and realise that that is selfish? It doesn't affect you, or anyone else, at all. You just want him not to have enjoyment because he did something you don't like.

I do believe that someone that has pirated a game, and has enjoyed the game, should buy it as soon as they can. I also believe that, outside of the demo argument that some here have given, someone who pirates a game that they would normally buy is doing wrong.

Pffft, this is getting a bit complex. It comes down to morals vs money really, the two don't go together so well. Money is a necessary evil, something that people need, giving value to things in a way that is understood by all. It's also a way to control people, again something that is needed but is bad and is constantly abused. Gahh, I'll stop on that issue.

 

[lasherman]

I have been thinking about this for a while now and can't seem to come up with a good reason why someone would pirate a game. My line of thinking is since you didn't pay for it your stealing, and well stealing is wrong and a criminal action thus don't pirate game. But there has to be a reason so many people pirate games, maybe I just don't get it or haven't heard the right reason, "Because I can" "I don't have the money to spend on games/don't want to spend money on games" are the ones I hear most and they are not even that good of reasons to do it.
So I was wondering if anyone else had an incite or have heard a good argument for it?

A good argument? Well, simply put, it isn't stealing. If I go out and steal a car, then I am taking a car away from someone else. If, however, I pirate a game/movie/song, the company that made it isn't losing anything, I'm just not giving them my money.

Sure, if you have the money to pay for the game, go ahead and pay for it and support the company that made it. But in a situation like mine, where your choices are either spend your food money on video games, don't buy any new games, or download a copy of it for free, then (I hate using this term) it's a victimless crime.

Once I have the time to get a full time job, and can afford more than the very basic necessities, I will go back to paying for my games in an effort to ensure those companies will keep making games, but until then I will pirate without regret because of the knowledge that I'm not hurting anyone or anything in doing so.

Well as i stated before it is stealing, you taking something you didn't pay for I know your not physically taking something from the company but the idea is the same, you think you deserve something you can't pay for and take it upon yourself to commit a theft and take the game you want. I don't have much money now, so I don't buy games ether, what I do is look for a job and wait until I have the money to buy what I want.

Yeah, but it isn't really "taking something you didn't pay for", it's taking a copy of something you didn't pay for. If you go out to a museum and snap a photo of the Mona Lisa, you now have a copy of the Mona Lisa which you didn't pay for, but would you consider that stealing?

Personally, I'm curious as to why you are so against pirating at all. Specifically in the situation I mentioned where someone is only pirating because they just can't afford to buy a copy.

I understand being opposed to pirating if you can easily afford to pay for it, or if you want to support a developer, but what is so wrong about taking a copy of something you wouldn't have paid money for in the first place? Even if you were to consider this stealing, surely you can admit that in this situation there is no actual negative impact on anyone?

Yes it's a copy, it is also something you didn't pay for that you should have thus stealing.

For the Mona Lisa picture, it would be more accurate to say an exact replica, and they are very expensive, the picture analogy is sorta how Arcane Asylums DRM worked, you got the game but you are missing a few thing(like jumping).

I'm against pirating for the simple reason of it's wrong, it's illegal and it makes people think they are entitled for things they don't work for. I am probably one of a very small amount of people who think if something is wrong then you shouldn't do it, and it's as simple as that.

Fine, you didn't like my Mona Lisa example, how about this: I see a nice wooden table at a furniture store. Since I have no money, all I do is examine the table, then go home and build an identical table. They are both exactly the same in every way, except that one was very expensive and one was free. What is 'wrong' with building a replica/duplicating/copying something else?

Also, you say you are "against pirating for the simple reason of it's wrong, it's illegal and it makes people think they are entitled for things they don't work for." Why, exactly, is it wrong? Are you only against it for the reason that it's illegal, or do you actually have a personal, well thought out reason for thinking it is wrong? Honestly, if the only reason you are against it is because someone decided to make it illegal, don't you think you should have a better reason than that?

For the table example if you go home and buy the supplys(or get the wood from a stockpile you had from going out into the woods and cutting it down) and spend the time making it from scratch then it's your you have spent the time and resources to make it. This is different because you are stealing the code to use for yourself, you didn't work on it you didn't pay for it, thus stealing.

No it's wrong because you are taking something that belongs to someone else they made it and you are taking it from them even if it is a copy you are taking the code they spent a lot of time and money on and not compensating them for it and you are doing it for personal gain thus wrong.

Well, if you want to get technical, piracy is not theft. Say I go to ThePirateBay and download a new game, I am downloading it from someone who has given anyone permission to download it. They may have stolen it, but frankly I don't care how they got their hands on it. Now that it is in their possession, they should be able to do whatever they want with it.

Also, as I said at least once before, copying something you had no intention of buying simply doesn't hurt anyone. If I was never planning on buying the next Bioware game, but if I know someone who has it and is willing to give me a copy of it, it doesn't affect Bioware, or anyone who had a hand in making it for that matter, in the slightest.

 

[Kagim]

snip

Actually if its not upto my standard I dont finish it. I ditch it and inform my associates its not worth paying for.

If your home sucks MOVE. If Gears of War 3 sucks I cant go and get a better version of it from someone else. Only one company makes GoW3 thus making your analogy flawed.

And actually yes it does cost him money since he has to pay various taxes on the property unless hes passing *everything* onto you, land tax, property tax, maintainence costs, etc.

So yeah, failed argument.

Well, here we go.

1) You happily left out the "I ditch games i don't like." Something i point out in my post i have no problem with if people do as long as they pay for quality. If you actually read it and not just skimmed for something to ***** about you would know that.

2)Companies have to pay taxes on there buildings, employee salaries, and shipping costs in some cases to make and sell there games. So yeah, failed counter point.

3)Bout the home thing? Sure i can go to another shitty apartment in my price range which is either in shitty condition or shitty part of town. As well rent is generally in proportion to the taxes the landlord has to pay divided among the amount of rooms upon entering the agreement plus usually around 20% extra to make a profit(In other words rent is usually landlords total fees / number of blocks + 20-40% depending on the size of room) As described by my last three landlords from separate owners. Utilities are also generally not paid for in my price range and accounts must be drawn separately. As well generally stores, at least where i live, have differences in price. Not massive variances i realize. I can go to multiple complexes and see different prices but usually get the same quality of home. You can go to different stores to shop for prices and deals and always get the same quality of game. Counter point dead.

 

[Arenari]

The best argument that I have heard is, I pirate the game to see if i like it, then i go buy it. What do you think?

 

[NIHILHATE]

I pirate games. I live in a small town without a gameshop, I have no car and I hate busses. I have no means of paying over the internet, and my computer is SHIT, meaning there's a 1/10 chance it will actually run. And I never buy games new anyway, so the developers aren't actually missing out on any money. Plus I'm not loaded, it took me two years to save up for my 360, and I can afford maybe five second hand games a year. And as I mentioned, I live in a small town. What is there for entertainment? Sex, drugs and videogames, that's what. I rarely have money for weed, and the only girls in my town who dig metro guys are em*s, so the sad truth is, I only get laid when I'm out of town. I rarely have the money to go out of town (apart from school). What's left? GAMES. So excuse me if I feel the need to deprive a multi-million company of a tenner, only to never actually play the game 'cos my PC doesn't have the technology, and of course, can you see where I'm going with this? I don't have the money to improve it.
Happy?

 

[AnonymsWarrior]

Do what you want 'cause a pirate is free, being a pirate is alright with me, do what you want 'cause a pirate is free, you are a pirate!

 

[Cody211282]

snip

As I said before you kill far too easily without considering the full options. Ignoring my previous statement of trimming the guy, you have a tool to chop him up, a tool you could dig him out with.

I never said I had a tool, and I don't believe I was given one, I was assuming this was bare ahnded or with a rock.

 

[Crystal Cuckoo]

I lost my copy of Pokemon Mystery Dungeon.... *sniff*

 

[Cody211282]

I have been thinking about this for a while now and can't seem to come up with a good reason why someone would pirate a game. My line of thinking is since you didn't pay for it your stealing, and well stealing is wrong and a criminal action thus don't pirate game. But there has to be a reason so many people pirate games, maybe I just don't get it or haven't heard the right reason, "Because I can" "I don't have the money to spend on games/don't want to spend money on games" are the ones I hear most and they are not even that good of reasons to do it.
So I was wondering if anyone else had an incite or have heard a good argument for it?

OH HERRO AGAIN! And I'm just gonna say this once more (okay I will say it many more times) but there's no such thing as good and evil, everything is opinion, so there ya go

Yes there is stealing something that is not yours is evil, killing in cold blood is evil, saying that there is nothing that is evil is just an excuse to make it so you sleep better at night.

Lawl, my friend you make me smile, looks like the got to you too, too funny, just cause something says something doesn't make it so, like for example, Let's say someone says a flower smells nice (roses) and the next person says the roses smell awful, who's right or wrong? Neither, it's all based on opinion, to person A he is right and the flowers smell nice, to person B he is right and that the flowers smell bad, it's the exact same thing with this, for another (more extreme example) lets look at 9/11, to you and all other people (mainly those who aren't terrorists) thought it was awful and terrible, to the terrorists it was one of the best things to ever happen, but again who is right or wrong? Neither because it's all based on opinion also a reason you only believe things are evil is because you've been told they're evil for so long you probably wouldn't believe otherwise.

I also sleep so well at night because I don't think much at all (when I go to bed) my bed is also very cozy and I'm usually VERY tired so when I go to bed I usually hit the pillow pretty hard

Well considering I rate the 9/11 terrorist as evil as Stalin and Hitler your not making a good point and your making me think your morally bankrupt, there is a set of things that are right and wrong, stealing is wrong, killing is wrong, rape is wrong. You sir should have known this by know.

I have no morals because there are no need for them, I mean sure I wouldn't go around killing people but when I view something, either be it "good" or "bad" I think of it as something that just happen also you poor foolish person I feel so sorry for you, a man once said "If you are lied to enough you can believe heaven is hell and hell is heaven" he got that right except it's not lying, it's just telling someone over and over again

If you want to bring up Plato's The Cave then I get to say there are truth's in this worth, I don't believe in heaven or hell, so that's not a factor in my reasoning. And lets say someone is violently raped you wouldn't say that's a bad thing?

Nope, just something that happens, "1 death is a tragedy (no it isn't, I'm just quoting here) a million deaths is a statistic" though I'd probably go aaaawwww, cause you know, it probably hurt or something

You are a very cold, scary person

 

[Kagim]

So we've established the industry cheerleader is irrefutably a monster who would brutally murder a saint because he accidentally got 100 random people stuck in a hole... simply because the amount of people benefited by his actions is directly quantified for him in the hypothetical moral dilemma.

Okay, now that the thread is over, what do you think is the best way to melt cheese? Some people microwave, but to me microwaved cheese always tastes like either plastic or cheese that had been left out for two days (I was six).

Use a double boiler. It melts cheese without the rubber effect as well its really hard to burn cheese in a double boiler. Of course if your using cheese slices of courses it going to be like rubber your using processed crap.

Ew.

 

[Cody211282]

I have been thinking about this for a while now and can't seem to come up with a good reason why someone would pirate a game. My line of thinking is since you didn't pay for it your stealing, and well stealing is wrong and a criminal action thus don't pirate game. But there has to be a reason so many people pirate games, maybe I just don't get it or haven't heard the right reason, "Because I can" "I don't have the money to spend on games/don't want to spend money on games" are the ones I hear most and they are not even that good of reasons to do it.
So I was wondering if anyone else had an incite or have heard a good argument for it?

A good argument? Well, simply put, it isn't stealing. If I go out and steal a car, then I am taking a car away from someone else. If, however, I pirate a game/movie/song, the company that made it isn't losing anything, I'm just not giving them my money.

Sure, if you have the money to pay for the game, go ahead and pay for it and support the company that made it. But in a situation like mine, where your choices are either spend your food money on video games, don't buy any new games, or download a copy of it for free, then (I hate using this term) it's a victimless crime.

Once I have the time to get a full time job, and can afford more than the very basic necessities, I will go back to paying for my games in an effort to ensure those companies will keep making games, but until then I will pirate without regret because of the knowledge that I'm not hurting anyone or anything in doing so.

Well as i stated before it is stealing, you taking something you didn't pay for I know your not physically taking something from the company but the idea is the same, you think you deserve something you can't pay for and take it upon yourself to commit a theft and take the game you want. I don't have much money now, so I don't buy games ether, what I do is look for a job and wait until I have the money to buy what I want.

Yeah, but it isn't really "taking something you didn't pay for", it's taking a copy of something you didn't pay for. If you go out to a museum and snap a photo of the Mona Lisa, you now have a copy of the Mona Lisa which you didn't pay for, but would you consider that stealing?

Personally, I'm curious as to why you are so against pirating at all. Specifically in the situation I mentioned where someone is only pirating because they just can't afford to buy a copy.

I understand being opposed to pirating if you can easily afford to pay for it, or if you want to support a developer, but what is so wrong about taking a copy of something you wouldn't have paid money for in the first place? Even if you were to consider this stealing, surely you can admit that in this situation there is no actual negative impact on anyone?

Yes it's a copy, it is also something you didn't pay for that you should have thus stealing.

For the Mona Lisa picture, it would be more accurate to say an exact replica, and they are very expensive, the picture analogy is sorta how Arcane Asylums DRM worked, you got the game but you are missing a few thing(like jumping).

I'm against pirating for the simple reason of it's wrong, it's illegal and it makes people think they are entitled for things they don't work for. I am probably one of a very small amount of people who think if something is wrong then you shouldn't do it, and it's as simple as that.

Fine, you didn't like my Mona Lisa example, how about this: I see a nice wooden table at a furniture store. Since I have no money, all I do is examine the table, then go home and build an identical table. They are both exactly the same in every way, except that one was very expensive and one was free. What is 'wrong' with building a replica/duplicating/copying something else?

Also, you say you are "against pirating for the simple reason of it's wrong, it's illegal and it makes people think they are entitled for things they don't work for." Why, exactly, is it wrong? Are you only against it for the reason that it's illegal, or do you actually have a personal, well thought out reason for thinking it is wrong? Honestly, if the only reason you are against it is because someone decided to make it illegal, don't you think you should have a better reason than that?

For the table example if you go home and buy the supplys(or get the wood from a stockpile you had from going out into the woods and cutting it down) and spend the time making it from scratch then it's your you have spent the time and resources to make it. This is different because you are stealing the code to use for yourself, you didn't work on it you didn't pay for it, thus stealing.

No it's wrong because you are taking something that belongs to someone else they made it and you are taking it from them even if it is a copy you are taking the code they spent a lot of time and money on and not compensating them for it and you are doing it for personal gain thus wrong.

Well, if you want to get technical, piracy is not theft. Say I go to ThePirateBay and download a new game, I am downloading it from someone who has given anyone permission to download it. They may have stolen it, but frankly I don't care how they got their hands on it. Now that it is in their possession, they should be able to do whatever they want with it.

Also, as I said at least once before, copying something you had no intention of buying simply doesn't hurt anyone. If I was never planning on buying the next Bioware game, but if I know someone who has it and is willing to give me a copy of it, it doesn't affect Bioware, or anyone who had a hand in making it for that matter, in the slightest.

Ok I'm going to make this short because as much fun as I have bantering with you this has just become both of us constantly saying the same thing, even if no one losses any money it is still wrong because you took it without paying for it.

 

[AdamRBi]

If I pirate a game, it's only for a few reasons and only under certain conditions.

The Reasons to Pirate:
1. Not enough loose cash to spend on a game.
2. Not interested in actually playing the majority of the game.
3. Can't find the game any other way.

But I don't go around pirating newer games, that falls under my "do not pirate if" rules:
1. I won't Pirate a game thats newer than 5 to 7 years old. Mostly due to the fact that by then the companies don't sell them anymore or don't pay much attention to those sales.
2. If it won't easily run on my computer, I don't bother. Seriously, after my PS2 broke and I had no money to fix it or replace it I tried very hard to get a PS2 Emulator to work on my machine and I still can get it right.

That's what I would consider my 'rules' for pirating games. It's like duplicating a car from 1998. Not like GMC would loose it's footing over it, they don't even produce the car anymore.

As for those pirating brand new game, they're pretty much stealing. The developers worked hard on that game and they should at least get their money's worth.

 

[Giest118]

Perhaps if developers started making good games rather than expensive games, piracy wouldn't have such a catastrophically putrid effect.

 

[Cody211282]

snip

Well in most circumstances no since in this day and age in developed countries that arnt in a cultural ark age, its a higher prercentage being prostitutes that are raped. Which gives them a very good incentive to stop bing one, thus not exactly a bad thing.

That sir is a horrible thing, sure what they are doing is wrong but raping them isn't the thing to do, take them to jail and punish them for their crimes legally. Also I would like you to say that to my ex she was raped when she was 10 my her cousin.