Why do some people think free healthcare is bad?
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Because some people are nazis. And communists. At the same time. Just like the people calling for better healthcare in the US. According to the people protesting against better healthcare in the US. God bless American logic and the communist nazi people that invented it.
I know right?ThrobbingEgo said:
Here in Oz we're just withering away in economic termoil because of our free health care, honestly, if it weren't for helth care we'd be out of this damn recession already, oh how i envy the great and powerful greenback that we're totally not equal with on the exchange rate for the first time ever. [/opposite day]
The US is already one of the lowest-taxed first-world countries (if not the lowest), you've got the slack there to comfortably afford universal healthcare. I dunno where your doubling taxes thing comes from - source?Pirate Kitty said:
What I do know is that Sweden has the highest happiness rating of the Western world, and it's the most socialist, with almost 50% taxes (yes, that includes universal healthcare). Does that tell you anything?
Hence why I said 'sort of agree with'. While no one would want to give an alcoholic a new liver, especially if he is just going to wreck the new one, creating a system to judge whether it was brought upon by their own idiotic actions and thus punish them would likely cause more problems than just giving this alcoholic a new liver. The system would have to be well thought out and lenient before I'd consider it something worth implementing.Turing said:
Also, what makes you believe that your depression would be considered self inflicted?
Yes, but under a 'free' health system, you could end up paying less taxes and getting a better service than you currently do, as is shown in every other developed country. It would take time to get there, but it is certainly possible.Pirate Kitty said:
What I like is that everyone jumps in on subjects like this as if they know enough to make an educated opinion on the matter. I know enough about it to know that I couldn't explain to anyone what I was sure about and I shouldn't try on the parts I'm not sure about. Mostly it has to do with the politicization effect from the "Left" and the "Right", the use of government to functionally establish monopolizes and the facts concerning cost of new drugs and procedures being higher in places that are freer marketwise because the companies providing innovation in medicine and medical practices have to make up loses is less free markets.
The world would be better off with a completely free market though and such a market would include free clinics, though of course not guarantee them.
The world would be better off with a completely free market though and such a market would include free clinics, though of course not guarantee them.
It's not bad. It's just not economically viable. Every country that has it (except Canada) is either re-examining its implementation or has a nonviable economy.
People freeze to death. Free housing would save them. Is being against free housing robbing people of life?
People starve to death. Is being against free food for everyone robbing people of life?
It'd be great if single payer health care would work everywhere, but it just won't.
People freeze to death. Free housing would save them. Is being against free housing robbing people of life?
People starve to death. Is being against free food for everyone robbing people of life?
It'd be great if single payer health care would work everywhere, but it just won't.
No Health Insurance is good 30% of the working class's paycheck ($10-15 here is average for blue collars in FL, especially during this economy), that's after taxes. On top of that most employers pay half of that cost, which works out to a total of 60% on ones income. It's bad enough to the point where every painting company I have worked for required me to get license as independent contractor (hell one boss made me 1% owner of company so he could dodge offering me health insurance) so I would have to pay for it myself without assistance.Roganwilson said:
Health Insurance CEOs make millions of dollars an hour, why is that when a computer could handle all claims? 80% of insurance payments go to administration costs.
One of my favorite articles is about a new Representative who ran against government healthcare complaining about having to wait 28 days after he sworn in for his government provided healthcare benefits kicks in.
http://www.alternet.org/rss/1/336385/anti-healthcare_gop_freshman_whines_about_having_to_wait_28_days_to_get_govt_healthcare/
because most americans dont want to pay the tax too support it free health care isnt exactly free its payed from the government wich pays it from tax money AKA want health? pay for it
Australia has a SORT OF working healthcare system, basically you pay 1% of your income in a medicare tax (if you are above a certain income threshold, if you're under it it's free) and that gives you access to the public option. However, you can waive the tax and the public option by taking out private insurance, which actually works out cheaper for people on higher incomes. That way there's a functional public healthcare option while allowing the private insurers to stay competitive.
However, you have to keep a pretty sketchy view of the word "functional". Most public hospitals are underfunded, and you can expect a long wait in the ER if you don't happen to be injured in the early morning or another slow time. Also some hospitals have closed their ERs because they don't have the staff to operate them, and if you live in a regional community you're likely to have the local one closed down entirely and be told that you need to go to the new, overloaded "super hospital" two towns over that now services the whole region. Still, better than nothing I guess.
However, you have to keep a pretty sketchy view of the word "functional". Most public hospitals are underfunded, and you can expect a long wait in the ER if you don't happen to be injured in the early morning or another slow time. Also some hospitals have closed their ERs because they don't have the staff to operate them, and if you live in a regional community you're likely to have the local one closed down entirely and be told that you need to go to the new, overloaded "super hospital" two towns over that now services the whole region. Still, better than nothing I guess.
Here is England everyone is entitled to free health care, in theory it is great but the NHS has been under a lot of strain considering the huge and unneeded funding cuts under the new governments. The bottom line is everyone at least is covered and if you don't want to be covered, just buy your own health insurance.MortisLegio said:
Socialised medicine does include Triage you know.... If your standing there missing half your face its a pretty safe bet you'll be brought to the front of the Queue and seen immediately.Guitarmasterx7 said:
I have a feeling that cultural attitudes are the problem here. Sweden is a different kind of first-world country than the US, where taxes work to distribute the wealth so that everyone has extremely comfortable lives, and even if they earn very little, every essential is provided for them.Wicky_42 said:
On the other hand, Americans, as seen from the posts in this thread, run the gamut from obscenely rich to dirt-poor because America is the land of enterpreneurs, which results in a small minority holding the vas majority of wealth. This is true of most countries, but it's especially obvious in the USA, and the population is extremely resistant to anything that would upset this (because those with vested interests, the rich, also have the most say in it).
It's ironic that the loudest, most obnoxious flag-waving country in the world also has this "I don't care for my fellow countrymen" attitude, and that for Americans, poor = unworthy/lazy.
And it's also completely ridiculous saying that public healthcare cannot be implemented since pretty much every other developed nation already has it in some form or another, and most of them aren't nearly as wealthy as the USA. It's just that the population is unwilling.
True, it would be a dictatorship if the government implemented an unpopular system. I guess the Americans deserve their misery-exploitation industry.
I'm one of the least 'bleeding heart' type people around.
I think people should make lemonade...
I don't like pensions, I don't like hand outs for the out of work. I HATE compensation for people having babies! (seriously: we have an over population problem...)
but I think free health care is a necessity. heath care is something so critical, something you really, really, really can't live without, and yet, it is unavoidably one of the most expensive things in the world too.
there is no getting around this. it is just a real nasty issue. that is why in this case I do support a communist approach. just take a bit extra in tax, so I won't really notice, and we can all just not have to worry about this MAJOR worry in life.
I'm from Australia.
from what I can calculate, roughly, we are taxed TWICE as much as those in the US (GDP
ublic revenue). our gov gives handouts for everything! I hate it soo much! but Medicare (our 'universal free health care') is something I wouldn't trade for anything.
unlike other handouts: its not the 'dole bludgers' fault if they get sick. you can't say "well, if they'd worked harder they wouldn't need heath care" (the opposite would be closer to the truth).
I think people should make lemonade...
I don't like pensions, I don't like hand outs for the out of work. I HATE compensation for people having babies! (seriously: we have an over population problem...)
but I think free health care is a necessity. heath care is something so critical, something you really, really, really can't live without, and yet, it is unavoidably one of the most expensive things in the world too.
there is no getting around this. it is just a real nasty issue. that is why in this case I do support a communist approach. just take a bit extra in tax, so I won't really notice, and we can all just not have to worry about this MAJOR worry in life.
I'm from Australia.
from what I can calculate, roughly, we are taxed TWICE as much as those in the US (GDP
ublic revenue). our gov gives handouts for everything! I hate it soo much! but Medicare (our 'universal free health care') is something I wouldn't trade for anything.unlike other handouts: its not the 'dole bludgers' fault if they get sick. you can't say "well, if they'd worked harder they wouldn't need heath care" (the opposite would be closer to the truth).