Why do Vegetarians get so much hate?

[Samurai Goomba]

we have evolved much beyond our animal roots, if I can survive without having to have something die for me, then it makes me feel a bit better inside, I don't choose to have these feelings and beliefs, I can't ignore them, its gotten to the point, where I couldn't physically eat meat, I dont mind people eating it around me, but the thought of it in my mouth makes me sick.

But you can't survive without something dying for you. That's the whole point. If you eat plants, those were once living and died for you. Likewise, the animals that would have eaten those plants didn't get to eat them. Also, the land used to farm those plants could have been used as unspoiled land, which animals could have lived on (and eaten more plants). In addition, the plants harvested (if machine harvesters were used) probably killed a lot of small rodents. Not to mention the insects that die to pesticides. When you eat plants, you validate/perpetuate this whole system and allow this process of multiple deaths to continue.

When I eat an organically-farmed chicken, the only thing that died was the chicken... And any bugs the chicken ate, but at least that made the chicken happy.

It's fine to be vegetarian for health reasons and such, but don't use the "not killing things" argument. Life is about living off of other life. Proof? Food consumed closer to the state of "alive" is actually healthier (assuming it was killed in the wild, not in a factory). The "higher morality" of vegetarianism is an ill-defined and slippery slope. That's why I get angry when I meet preachy ones.

There is a lot more to my vegetarianism than just not wanting the animal to die, its much better for the environment, its a healthy lifestyle, Plants are alive and do respond to light and water, but they don?t feel pain. The ability to feel pain requires a brain, a central nervous system, and pain receptors. All animals have these things. Plants do not

Healthy lifestyle: Depends entirely on the individual. You yourself proved this by stating you know an overweight vegetarian. So no, it's not so much more healthy than just being healthy in general.

Better for environment: Depends on the method. There are methods of farming vegetables that are bad for the environment, like places that have to spray crops with tons of pesticides. Slaughterhouses don't have to spray poisonous gas all over everything to keep bugs away (though they are disgusting for quite a few, different reasons). It just depends. There are environmentally-friendly ways to butcher animals, and environmentally-unsafe ways to grow crops.

As for your remark about plants, that's true. You didn't respond to any of my points about the pain-feeling animals harmed by your choice to be vegetarian, like all the animals that starve from not being able to eat those vegetables or use that land, or the little pain-sensitive mice that die horribly to combine harvesters.

I'm just saying that I think many moral vegetarians come from a place of emotion, and fail to understand that what they're doing isn't SO much better than what everyone else is. This is what makes me upset at them when they get preachy. I don't think it's bad to kill animals for food at all (obviously), so I'm not saying you're bad to do something that causes death. Maybe to you, killing a cow is "worse" than killing a handful of mice (I'm not sure what the actual ratio is for cows to mice murdered by the food industry). And that's fine. Believe what you want, as long as you don't try to say it's in any way more morally correct or push such a belief on me.

 

[irrelevantnugget]

I'm not a vegetarian, but I don't drink alcohol. Nearly everything that has been said here (or at least the parts I've read), can be applied to non-drinkers. It's quite saddening, I'm pretty sure there's more situations where this kind of thing happens.

Sad thing, humanity.

 

[The Youth Counselor]

I give them a hard time, just for fun. I actually really commend them, I tried to go veg and didn't last the week.

I do however feel eating meat keeps us at the top of the food chain and makes us masters of this dominion.

Vegans though are notorious for being preachy and self righteous. The raw vegans are members of a subversive cult! I think a lot of people unfairly group vegetarians with preachy and self righteous vegans.

 

[Hexdaemon]

Vegetarians are the murderers!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ov5Jgw_Nwx4

ok, seriosly though, I have no problem with vegetarians, I just dont want to hear preaching.
Also, refusing to eat meat on the premise of conditions of animals are kept in wont change their conditions, the majority is with people who need cheap meat to live, if you want to change animal welfare, support the welfare groups that are trying to get standards changed.

 

[Samurai Goomba]

One final thought: one choice (of diet) does not necessarily lead to another set choice (of social action, temperament or opinion) .

But you can't survive without something dying for you.

Actually, you're wrong on that. Look up fruitarianism. Not that I'd suggest taking it up; it seems more than a bit much, and in any case does lead to deficiencies according to several studies.

Link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruitarianism

Check out the "criticism" section. I don't even need to bother disproving the idea that diet is something a person can safely and healthily pursue. Besides, same rules apply. Fruit-eating animals get deprived of lands and fruit, starve and die. Thus, animals do indeed die. Oh, and I bet they still spray for bugs. Although with a diet like that, wouldn't be too long before they'd start eating them to get some protein.

When your kid can get taken away from you for being put on an all-fruits diet I think we can safely call that diet "pretty stupid." Besides, I'm almost certain animals are still getting hurt. The mere process of living causes other things to die. My house is depriving animals of living quarters and possible trees they could eat from. Hence, they starve and die. It's sort of like a Butterfly Effect kind of thing. Everything is related. Even inaction causes animals to die, because other animals kill them. So unless animals have more right to kill than I do... I should go kill and eat some tasty critters right now.

 

[Gdog4evr]

we have evolved much beyond our animal roots, if I can survive without having to have something die for me, then it makes me feel a bit better inside, I don't choose to have these feelings and beliefs, I can't ignore them, its gotten to the point, where I couldn't physically eat meat, I dont mind people eating it around me, but the thought of it in my mouth makes me sick.
...
There is a lot more to my vegetarianism than just not wanting the animal to die, its much better for the environment, its a healthy lifestyle, Plants are alive and do respond to light and water, but they don?t feel pain. The ability to feel pain requires a brain, a central nervous system, and pain receptors. All animals have these things. Plants do not.

...
My personal belief is that when someone finds out i'm Veg they immediately figure i'm going to preach to them, or that I feel i am an elitist who thinks I am better than them

You're putting in a significant amount of effort into not eating a category of food; including searching for alternate sources of protein and putting up with abuse from people who eat meat. My understanding is that you do this for moral reasons, in that you empathize with animals. However, you also say that you don't think you're morally superior to people who eat meat, even though by your standards they are doing something immoral. I'm having some trouble reconciling all of this.

I guess some people are give you flak because they are confused; if I find something so immoral that I avoid it even when doing it would be more convenient, such as pushing someone if they are standing in my way, yet don't fault someone who DOES do that, people would find me odd.

 

[VitalSigns]

we have evolved much beyond our animal roots, if I can survive without having to have something die for me, then it makes me feel a bit better inside, I don't choose to have these feelings and beliefs, I can't ignore them, its gotten to the point, where I couldn't physically eat meat, I dont mind people eating it around me, but the thought of it in my mouth makes me sick.
...
There is a lot more to my vegetarianism than just not wanting the animal to die, its much better for the environment, its a healthy lifestyle, Plants are alive and do respond to light and water, but they don?t feel pain. The ability to feel pain requires a brain, a central nervous system, and pain receptors. All animals have these things. Plants do not.

...
My personal belief is that when someone finds out i'm Veg they immediately figure i'm going to preach to them, or that I feel i am an elitist who thinks I am better than them

You're putting in a significant amount of effort into not eating a category of food; including searching for alternate sources of protein and putting up with abuse from people who eat meat. My understanding is that you do this for moral reasons, in that you empathize with animals. However, you also say that you don't think you're morally superior to people who eat meat, even though by your standards they are doing something immoral. I'm having some trouble reconciling all of this.

I guess some people are give you flak because they are confused; if I find something so immoral that I avoid it even when doing it would be more convenient, such as pushing someone if they are standing in my way, yet don't fault someone who DOES do that, people would find me odd.

its because i can comprehend that it is a personal choice and no amount of facts or pleas will change anyones mind. I dont think its morally wrong, but that isnt to say i think it is morally right. Shades of Grey.

NOTE: and again its not the actual Death that bothers me as much, its the living conditions, I understand that mice get killed when they graze for my salad, (although i buy as much organic as possible) but if I stop eating that I will die of starvation. Also at this point the thought of meat in my mouth makes me nauseous so I dont really understand what people are trying to prove to me, I havent told any of you Eating meat is stupid. You don't want me to preach then don't condemn my personal decision.

 

[VitalSigns]

I have been a Vegetarian for 3 years now Because I find it is a healthier diet

But you just said in another thread that you are a smoker... That's at least 7 kinds of stupid right there.
Anyway pretty much everything in the world is meant to be food for something else. I do prefer non cruel methods to kill animals but I do not have a problem with eating them.
Also you said that yes, you do not go into restaurants and whine about their being no choices but just like with religion the non annoying people are seen far less than the fuckwits. Too many times I have had to deal with some asshole who does not make us aware of their condition before hand, does not like the 3-4 vegetarian dishes we have and yet demands we make something just for them. So sadly it is just a case of you copping the flack for other vegetarians stupidity.

I wanted my body lean and muscular, so i Went vegetarian, it worked for me so I cant argue with results, Smoking is something im addicted to and I did before I started being Veg, that being said i don't even really want to quite, when i said healthy I was speaking more so in a vanity sense of being attractive.

 

[Naeo]

Vegetarians get shit because other people want to impose their way of life upon the "weirdos" who won't eat meat.

Personally, I think vegetarianism is perfectly justified, both in the "a lot of slaughterhouses are just plain cruel/abusive", "the pig farms in Mexico started the swine flu epidemic", and "it takes about 20 pounds worth of rice to raise one pound of beef."

 

[chronobreak]

I find it odd that Veganism and the like even exist, especially in cases where it's because of cruelty to the animals...

Imagine yourself a couple hundred years ago. Can you imagine the guy hunting for his food, killing it, and some person saying "eww!"? That guy would most likely get beaten, and would have to go hungry... or go eat some plants, right? I feel like the whole thing is just a condition of the wussification of man.

Also, the whole martyr complex most vegans have. They see that they are fighting a losing battle, they will never achieve their collective goal, and just have to settle for preaching and doing what they do. This gives a lot of them, or at least the ones I've met, a form of snobbery because we just don't see the light like they do, and they are always persecuted for their beliefs.

OP, you are preaching, by the way. I actually responded to a quote by you in another thread, and it had to do with this same topic more or less. If you have 100 posts, and 50 of them are about being vegan or animals or whatever, that's preaching.

 

[Mikaze]

It's sad, but you're only getting all that because of the vegetarians who are loud, obnoxious and preachy. Also because they're a little ignorant of your choice (like "How do you get protein then??" Idiots... Meat isn't the only protein food source in the world).

Well, its different types of protein than in meat, and the quantities are generally smaller based on regular portion sizes...
I mean, you can make a balanced vegetarian diet, its just that its a whole lot more difficult. Humans aren't herbivores by design.

I wouldn't know specifically since I'm not a vegetarian, but I just know that protein isn't restricted to meat.

Personally, I think that cutting out a whole category of natural food sources isn't really good; Variety is the key. There are foods from each group/category that contain nutrients not found in the others, so diversifying is best.

Best source of protein in the world is Falafel.

Also the argument that Humans aren't natural herbivores is under massive debate as were the only animals that have to cook our food to be able to eat it.

That is a point I would like to dispute. While humans nowadays may be unable to eat many foods without those foods being preapred in some way beforehand, this is potentially a result of something I shall refer to as 'reverse-evolution' (there is almost certainly a correct term for this process, that may even be it but I'm not sure.)

Basically over the last few centuries, the improvements in living conditions, life expectancy, medicine, etc. have been keeping alive the people who would normally die, propagating their genetic weaknesses instead of removing them from the gene pool and slowly degrading the ability of humans to consume foods that have not been prepared. If we look back a few millennia we can most likely see a stronger human that could eat many foods unprepared and if we look back a few more millennia from there we get to humans that can eat anything that isn't explicitly toxic.

~Mikaze~

 

[Meatstorm]

Because they are little sissies, who don't have the guts to enjoy the taste of blood.

This, because it's the most awesome reason so far.

This.

 

[VitalSigns]

It's sad, but you're only getting all that because of the vegetarians who are loud, obnoxious and preachy. Also because they're a little ignorant of your choice (like "How do you get protein then??" Idiots... Meat isn't the only protein food source in the world).

Well, its different types of protein than in meat, and the quantities are generally smaller based on regular portion sizes...
I mean, you can make a balanced vegetarian diet, its just that its a whole lot more difficult. Humans aren't herbivores by design.

I wouldn't know specifically since I'm not a vegetarian, but I just know that protein isn't restricted to meat.

Personally, I think that cutting out a whole category of natural food sources isn't really good; Variety is the key. There are foods from each group/category that contain nutrients not found in the others, so diversifying is best.

Best source of protein in the world is Falafel.

Also the argument that Humans aren't natural herbivores is under massive debate as were the only animals that have to cook our food to be able to eat it.

That is a point I would like to dispute. While humans nowadays may be unable to eat many foods without those foods being preapred in some way beforehand, this is potentially a result of something I shall refer to as 'reverse-evolution' (there is almost certainly a correct term for this process, that may even be it but I'm not sure.)

Basically over the last few centuries, the improvements in living conditions, life expectancy, medicine, etc. have been keeping alive the people who would normally die, propagating their genetic weaknesses instead of removing them from the gene pool and slowly degrading the ability of humans to consume foods that have not been prepared. If we look back a few millennia we can most likely see a stronger human that could eat many foods unprepared and if we look back a few more millennia from there we get to humans that can eat anything that isn't explicitly toxic.

~Mikaze~

already been disputed. Humans are Omnivores, meaning we can survive on both, or one of the two, so it really comes down to what you want.

 

[VitalSigns]

Why don't people like Vegetarians?

Because Hitler was one. Nuff said.

At times, Hitler claimed that he didn?t eat meat because he wanted to be seen as an ascetic who was focused only on the needs of the German people. However, Hitler was actually a devoted carnivore, and his consumption of fish, pigeons, and sausages is extensively documented.

Google it

 

[MasterSqueak]

To me, Vegetarianism is going against nature. We are designed to eat meat AND greens, so why limit ourselves? I eat meat, I'm perfectly healthy, and enjoy salads and veggies. Meat is plenty healthy as long as you prepare it correctly. I, however, am strongly against animal abuse. Animal abuse is when the animal is placed in unneccisary pain, not killing it for food. The food chain is one of the most important parts of Earth's ecosystem. And quick, painless death is far more humane compared to what would happen in the wild.

This is all my opinion, and I do not care if you are Vegetarian or not. I simply put in my two cents in hopes of showing you a view from the other side, so to speak.

 

[Silva]

One final thought: one choice (of diet) does not necessarily lead to another set choice (of social action, temperament or opinion) .

But you can't survive without something dying for you.

Actually, you're wrong on that. Look up fruitarianism. Not that I'd suggest taking it up; it seems more than a bit much, and in any case does lead to deficiencies according to several studies.

Link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruitarianism

Check out the "criticism" section.

I did. That's why I mentioned the part about deficiences.

I don't even need to bother disproving the idea that diet is something a person can safely and healthily pursue.

No, you really don't. I never took a stance for or against the diet. It has killed people. That's reason enough not to reccomend it.

Besides, same rules apply. Fruit-eating animals get deprived of lands and fruit, starve and die. Thus, animals do indeed die. Oh, and I bet they still spray for bugs. Although with a diet like that, wouldn't be too long before they'd start eating them to get some protein.

Animals die anyway, so do we. Does that make killing humans okay? We are not talking about preventing an ultimate end here, merely delaying it. So this point doesn't amount to any difference, merely it makes it seem all the more easy to do as one wills on this issue. But the easy path is not necessarily an ethically correct path.

When your kid can get taken away from you for being put on an all-fruits diet I think we can safely call that diet "pretty stupid." Besides, I'm almost certain animals are still getting hurt. The mere process of living causes other things to die. My house is depriving animals of living quarters and possible trees they could eat from. Hence, they starve and die. It's sort of like a Butterfly Effect kind of thing. Everything is related. Even inaction causes animals to die, because other animals kill them. So unless animals have more right to kill than I do... I should go kill and eat some tasty critters right now.

I should point out now, and note that I'm not taking a vegetarian stand or stance here since I am not one as I already explained earlier, that the fact that things die from almost all actions is not an invitation or an ethical justification for making choices that lead to much larger losses of life, particularly relatively intelligent life. Just because something is in nature doesn't mean that we have to follow it as an ethical rule. If we did apply such logic on a grander scale, civilisation would cease. So why apply it here?

 

[lolmeister]

I have a vegetarian friend, and we usually have a little dig at him just for laughs, but I don't really care. If people choose to miss out on the delights of meat, then its not my problem.