Why do you believe?

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ThrobbingEgo

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Seekster said:
As a History (and Journalism) major I can tell you that there have been far too many coincidences throughout history for there not to be some higher power behind it all. Personally I have a difficult time understanding how someone could possibly deny God but you probably have just as much trouble understanding my point of view as well.
A skeptic could call "researcher bias." If you're looking for a pattern you will find it, even if there is none. It's why there are "faces" on the moon and mars. There aren't, really. We just see them because it's the way our brains are wired. We are obsessed with patterns.

Anyway, I don't want to start an argument on the internet. I'm a Mass Communication major and we like to criticize Journalism majors. :p
 

Damien the Pigeon

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Mantonio said:
Damien the Pigeon said:
JodaSFU said:
Damien the Pigeon said:
I used to be atheist/agnostic, but now I believe differently. Someone didn't just hand me a religious book and tell me to read it or anything, though. I have my own beliefs and I arrived at them in my own way. So am I religious? I suppose a bit, yes, but I'm not part of any organized religion.
I actually follow that to a certain degree. Are you a deist?
I'm not familiar with that term, so...maybe? Is that like the opposite of atheist?
Deism is the believe that a god or team of gods created the universe. But unlike, say, the christian God, once it started it it/they simply went away, no longer taking an interest. They made the universe, but everything from that point on is down to science.
Ah. Then to answer the original question, no I am not a deist, but I do feel that there is a combination of spirituality and science. What you said definitely makes a good point, but I think that whatever is out there still exists to some degree. People say that "God wouldn't let all the chaos and suffering happen" but I wonder if any god would even be all-powerful? Does a God need to be omnipotent? What if God(s) just does what he/she/it/they can in small doses to try to help the world?

I guess in terms of my own religious views, I have more questions than answers. If pressed, though, I would have to admit that I do believe in some sort of higher/maybe just slightly different power.
 

Seekster

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ThrobbingEgo said:
Seekster said:
As a History (and Journalism) major I can tell you that there have been far too many coincidences throughout history for there not to be some higher power behind it all. Personally I have a difficult time understanding how someone could possibly deny God but you probably have just as much trouble understanding my point of view as well.
A skeptic could call "researcher bias." If you're looking for a pattern you will find it, even if there is none. It's why there are "faces" on the moon and mars. There aren't, really. We just see them because it's the way our brains are wired.

Anyway, I don't want to start an argument on the internet. I'm a Mass Communication major and we like to criticize Journalism majors. :p
Fair enough, incidentally Im only a Journalism major because I want to write and English majors focus too much on grammar for my liking.

Yes a skeptic could claim researcher bias but I do not go out and look for patterns, its really more of a "now that I think about it" sort of thing. As I have said before its just as impossible to prove the existence of God empirically as it is to disprove the existence of God empirically. I for one believe that God does not require us to prove His existence for He exists regardless but that is a matter of faith.

Love to stick around but I have class so see you later.
 

Maze1125

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Seekster said:
As a History (and Journalism) major I can tell you that there have been far too many coincidences throughout history for there not to be some higher power behind it all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98OTsYfTt-c&feature=related
 
Feb 18, 2009
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Hmmm, have not really pondered, how to label myself. I believe in chance and coincidence; The collaboration between chaotic man and organized nature. I don´t give much value to rationalism and human intellect. I see little point in wondering, why things happen the way they happen. And as for God, I have nothing against him. He´s a cool guy.

What I really am, is a relativist. I´m very much aware, that I´m not anymore right than you are, and vice versa. What is true, is a matter of perspective. So all of you are fine in my book.

...Yeah, I think that´s about all.

EDIT: Oh yeah, the title said "Why do you believe?" Ermm, no reason. I guess it´s easier to function, when you have some notion of your surroundings and a code of conduct. Besides, I too have the need to understand, why things happen. It´s just that, I satisfy that need with a simple answer, "Because they do."
 

Kpt._Rob

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Apr 22, 2009
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Seekster said:
Sometimes you just KNOW something to be true, you cant prove it, or argue for it in empirical terms but you just KNOW. I understand many people are uncomfortable putting faith in anything but to each his own I suppose.
As a Christian, doesn't it bother you at all that a Muslim, a Jew, a Hindu, or even someone who thought the works of H.P. Lovecraft were prophetic would say the exact same thing? The "I just know" trail of thought has been claimed by every religion ever, doesn't the fact that they feel every bit as certain concern you?

Regardless, and in answer, I'm a proud atheist (defacto agnostic if you want to get really technical [meaning I believe that the probability of a deity is so improbable that there is no reason to believe]). If you want a nice summary of what I believe read Richard Dawkin's "The God Delusion". I also believe that religion is a dangerous force in this world, if you want some substantiating reading for that you could read Sam Harris' "The End of Faith" or "Letter to a Christian Nation", or if you don't have time to read, watch Richard Dawkin's two part documentary "The Root of All Evil" (you can watch it free on Google) or Bill Maher's "Religulous" (which also offers plenty of other reasons to doubt any certain answer).
 

IrrelevantTangent

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I believe in Buddhism for several reasons. Firstly, because it promises eternal life without eternal boredom- whatever memories you have from your past life will be either completely gone or heavily suppressed, so you won't end up losing your mind out of boredom in Heaven- as you keep getting reincarnated over and over again, in a neverending cycle. Second, because Buddhism is totally okay with the concept of being imperfect. Nobody's admonishing you for thinking 'impure' thoughts because they know it's natural. Nobody's forcing you to believe in anything because it's all about one's personal quest for the truth and for a deeper spiritual meaning in life. And no one's punishing you for sinning in your life, other than getting reincarnated as something other than a human, I guess. And that depends on your belief system regarding reincarnation. But most of all, because Buddhism isn't claiming it's the only true religion- it recognizes the worth of other religions instead of lambasting them for all their faults, and recognizes that all paths lead to the center. I may be a Buddhist, but that doesn't mean I can't appreciate the Bible or the Qur'an. I just don't exclusively subscribe to either of them, or either religion associated with them, for that matter.
 

Fightgarr

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Dec 3, 2008
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Does anyone else find it strange that over half of the responses to the question: "Why do you believe" are by people who have no religious beliefs. I'm glad that this is a discussion thread rather than an argument though, so I appreciate that. I'm an animist. or those of you who do not know what that is, its someone who believes that everything on the planet living or inanimate has a spirit that must be respected. This isn't to say that I worship staplers or something. It does mean that have a respect an appreciation for every rock and tree I come across though. Why I believe is because everything in the universe is so dynamic and incredible in all of its absurdities that everything having a spirit just makes sense to me. To me its not a question of what I can sort out through logic and reason because the universe isn't logical or reasonable it just exists. Anyway, to me animism makes sense.
I know I sounded like a pretentious git for most of that, but its fucking difficult to put your beliefs about the universe into words that don't sound bullshitty.
 

Rascarin

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I was born into a religious family, where we attended church every week (still do, in fact). It is unfathomable for me to believe that there is no God. It's hardwired into my brain. Even though religion itself is a struggle for me and theres lots I don't understand and lots that I do wrong, I still believe in God.

Also, after studying science at college, it seems impossible to me that the sheer complexity of the world happened because of a freak explosion in space. It's too improbable to be chance. The diversity of species, the complexity of DNA, structure of the human body... I cannot see how a huge asplosion can create that.

Thats just my opinion, anyway.
 

Christemo

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Jan 13, 2009
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the most "religious" part of me is my swears. including "Jesus fucking christ", "holy crap" and "gawd dammit". and dont misunderstand me. i wasnt meaning i invented those swears. i believe in nothing but Mother Nature (not as a deity, as our sweet sweet planet).
 

scotth266

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Jan 10, 2009
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I believe because:

1)This world doesn't make sense.
2)This world is unsolvable.
3)This world is here.

So yeah, that's about it. Think on it.
 

Mantonio

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Rascarin said:
I was born into a religious family, where we attended church every week (still do, in fact). It is unfathomable for me to believe that there is no God. It's hardwired into my brain. Even though religion itself is a struggle for me and theres lots I don't understand and lots that I do wrong, I still believe in God.

Also, after studying science at college, it seems impossible to me that the sheer complexity of the world happened because of a freak explosion in space. It's too improbable to be chance. The diversity of species, the complexity of DNA, structure of the human body... I cannot see how a huge asplosion can create that.

Thats just my opinion, anyway.
The odds are more likely than you think. Besides, the Big Bang can get away with more improbability that other things, because it only had to happen once.

I implore you to read Richard Dawkins 'The God Delusion'. Even if it doesn't affect your view, it's a good book.
 

Bobzer77

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Seekster said:
Sometimes you just KNOW something to be true, you cant prove it, or argue for it in empirical terms but you just KNOW.
I have to agree with that, I just think about life and the universe and I know this didn't happen on its own, I accept that it may have, and even if there was un-deniable proof that God does not exist I would still go to mass and stuff because even if you look at the parables, stories and teachings even the commandments (thou shall not kill etc) If everyone had a moral code like that the world would be a much better place.
 

scotth266

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Mantonio said:
I implore you to read Richard Dawkins 'The God Delusion'. Even if it doesn't affect your view, it's a good book.
Several folks have recommended this to me. The title is what drives me off. I would read it otherwise: but it seems blatantly hostile just by looking at the cover.

EDIT: Is that avatar from the Sword in the Stone?
 

IrrelevantTangent

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Bobzer77 said:
Seekster said:
Sometimes you just KNOW something to be true, you cant prove it, or argue for it in empirical terms but you just KNOW.
I have to agree with that, I just think about life and the universe and I know this didn't happen on its own, I accept that it may have, and even if there was un-deniable proof that God does not exist I would still go to mass and stuff because even if you look at the parables, stories and teachings even the commandments (thou shall not kill etc) If everyone had a moral code like that the world would be a much better place.
I do think Christianity did get it right with all of those stories and messages regarding being kind to others and obeying moral laws, don't get me wrong. But Christianity is viciously opposed to many things that I don't think are anywhere near that bad (condoms, abortions, D&D, video games) and I find fault with it for that.
 

tyleroi

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Hmm I'd have to say what swung me from atheist to a little bit past agnostic was a mathematical argument that was presented to me by a physics major a year or so ago.. I can't remember the specifics (I'm not a math person) but essentially it boiled down to a higher being of some kind, though not necessarily a 'god' in the typically viewed sense, may be necessary for the "before the beginning of our universe" time to cause the first 'cause' in a super long chain of causes and effects that led to the present. But then again, the concept of what is a god isn't really defined in this argument thus far so: I don't believe, personally, that its very likely at all for there to be an all powerful/all knowing god out there who cares about every action I take. Could there be something that's just vastly superior to us in its stage of development? More likely, but still improbable.

I just wonder what some people think of the 'using math to prove the existence of god' rather then how I usually saw it used as a method of disproving.
 

Mantonio

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scotth266 said:
Mantonio said:
I implore you to read Richard Dawkins 'The God Delusion'. Even if it doesn't affect your view, it's a good book.
Several folks have recommended this to me. The title is what drives me off. I would read it otherwise: but it seems blatantly hostile just by looking at the cover.

EDIT: Is that avatar from the Sword in the Stone?
I know what you mean, but believe me it isn't. It's quite a calmly paced book actually, especially when read out loud by Dawkins himself.

And it's the guy from 'The Road to El Dorado actually'.

tyleroi said:
Hmm I'd have to say what swung me from atheist to a little bit past agnostic was a mathematical argument that was presented to me by a physics major a year or so ago.. I can't remember the specifics (I'm not a math person) but essentially it boiled down to a higher being of some kind, though not necessarily a 'god' in the typically viewed sense, may be necessary for the "before the beginning of our universe" time to cause the first 'cause' in a super long chain of causes and effects that led to the present. But then again, the concept of what is a god isn't really defined in this argument thus far so: I don't believe, personally, that its very likely at all for there to be an all powerful/all knowing god out there who cares about every action I take. Could there be something that's just vastly superior to us in its stage of development? More likely, but still improbable.

I just wonder what some people think of the 'using math to prove the existence of god' rather then how I usually saw it used as a method of disproving.
That just creates the question 'what created that god?'.
 

scotth266

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The_Oracle said:
I do think Christianity did get it right with all of those stories and messages regarding being kind to others and obeying moral laws, don't get me wrong. But Christianity is viciously opposed to many things that I don't think are anywhere near that bad (condoms, abortions, D&D, video games) and I find fault with it for that.
Condoms: Yeah, not much reason to be against that anymore. Give it time. God just seems to have trouble synching his clock, so he forgets to run FaithUpdate v 2.5 every once in a while :D

Abortion: We (as in the moderate Catholics) tend to be only against abortion's use as a method of birth control. It's unnecessary and painful for all involved. As a medical procedure (for serious complications), and when complex situations are brought in(rape), we tend to say let the woman decide.

As for D&D and videogames: a stupid bishop said something stupid. They can be silly sometimes: you just drown them out after a while and pay attention to the good ones. Pity they aren't the ones the media likes focusing on.
 

scotth266

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Mantonio said:
scotth266 said:
Mantonio said:
I implore you to read Richard Dawkins 'The God Delusion'. Even if it doesn't affect your view, it's a good book.
Several folks have recommended this to me. The title is what drives me off. I would read it otherwise: but it seems blatantly hostile just by looking at the cover.

EDIT: Is that avatar from the Sword in the Stone?
I know what you mean, but believe me it isn't. It's quite a calmly paced book actually, especially when read out loud by Dawkins himself.

And it's the guy from 'The Road to El Dorado actually'.
Heh. I saw that movie. It was the funny.

Alright then, if it isn't too combative I'll look at it. It probably won't change my opinion though.
 

Squeaksx

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Jun 19, 2008
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Well I view myself as one who believes in -the almighty- as a person before me had said. In all honesty I think it would be rather foolish to look at the world around us, realizing all that we do not know and cannot understand, and yet deny the idea of someone or something actually crafting the blue-print which causes trees, flowers, creatures, and people to look the way they are, to act the way they act. If nothing else you have to fathom the high probability of their being a Great Creator behind all of this. If this is so true, I believe there is only tiny things you have to lose to gain so much.

On a latter note, there are also many many cases of faith being the driving force in turning people's life around. From celebrities such as Johnny Cash and Robin Williams to even closer to home like my uncle (also an ex-junky and a felon who is now probably the cleanest, and most honorable person you could meet.) I simply don't think that we as human beings have the capacity in most cases to do such things by ourselves when we're in the deepest depths and can't even see the way out. There is a reason you see people make a dive into faith when they reach the lowest of the low, for some it doesn't take that much, but for others it is the only time when God becomes most obvious and needed.

For those who complain about not wanting to go to church on Sunday, it isn't as though that is required. You don't need to go to a quote on quote "church" and it doesn't even need to be on Sunday. A simple grouping together of fellow people of faith on any day of the week would be sufficient and really, what's an hour or an hour and a half? Besides it isn't even so much required as suggested because people tend to change into those they have around them, and if they surround themselves with fellow people of faith then it will become easier for them to stick with their beliefs, right? Social osmosis.

The latter, impure thoughts. There is nothing wrong with impure thoughts, even the most righteous of men get impure thoughts, on a regular basis. It's the choice whether to act or not to act on said thoughts that make it right or wrong. If impure thoughts were damnable then I think we would all be screwed. It's the act of restraint, not the act of thought suppression. In most cases also, the actions that are considered "impure" tend to be for our benefit. I think it would be safe to say that most of these tend to hold a high risk of ill-consequences falling onto the person doing or even the people around the one doing it.

I realize that I will get ostracized for my beliefs in some, neh, most cases. Sticking with your beliefs in circles that tend to insult or simply, as said before, ostracize. People tend to complain about the bible-bashers going around with their signs and their speeches, but you tend to forget the quiet men of faith who are also bludgeoned with hurtful words and even actions in some cases simply because they follow what they believe and don't keep it hidden from the world.
(On an off note even I'm not in favor of those sign carrying yelpers, I think it is better to speak to someone in an intellectual, humble, and open-minded tone if you wish to win them over to your side. The days of the inquisition are over my friends.)

Finally, people talk about him being a person one can turn to in time of need and pain. How about a person to turn to in joy and prosperity? A being you can look at and realize that it wasn't just a coincidence, and that there is a rather high probability of it happening again, and again. Sure there are going to be hardships, there are going to be a lot of them, but even then he'll be there for you to turn to in times of hardship, a shoulder to lean on so to say.

Hrm..I guess I went on for quiet a bit, well I believe that's all I can say about this subject, I hope you don't mind the rant..