Why doesn't the iPod touch get recognition as a handheld gaming console?

Recommended Videos

Nouw

New member
Mar 18, 2009
15,615
0
0
RAKtheUndead said:
That's a question with a very simple answer: It really, really sucks at gaming.

RAKtheUndead said:
A lot of the use of the iPhone happens to be internet surfing, or games playing, or other little toys which seem to be designed for distracting one from the poor overall telephonic abilities of the device, but it seems that they didn't have a look at the other products in the portable games market to investigate one of their biggest problems. Nintendo have always held the high ground in the portable games market, not because of the processing power of their systems, but because they realised that battery life is an important aspect, and gave it an accordingly high amount of attention.

The Game Boy held top position in the market even when far more advanced systems made its monochrome screen look like an archaic remnant - because it could keep going when other systems were completely drained. In a comparison with the DS and the iPhone, one would almost draw parallels between Apple's device and the Game Gear, but that would be unfair to Sega - at least they aimed for a market who wanted games more advanced than some 14-year-old's weekend programming project. Anyway, why are we giving Apple the benefit of the doubt in the computer gaming market? It isn't like they haven't tried entering the market before - and failing hard when they did.


I'll discuss this later.
RAKtheUndead said:
Out of those applications which have become popular, many of them, inexplicably, are games. Some people seem to think that this represents a new competitor into the handheld market, but I'd like to ask them something: Are they actually aware of the history of a) Apple and computer gaming and b) the mobile phone in the context of handheld games?

To the first part, I start with three words: Apple-Bandai Pippin. This machine, based around a Macintosh computer, was one of the biggest flops in gaming history. In an era where the Sony PlayStation sold in excess of 100 million, the Pippin sold just 42,000. Even the Atari Jaguar and Amiga CD32 sold more than that! Even putting that aside, the last time that Macintosh computers had a significant exclusive title, it was called Marathon, and that developer was bought up by Microsoft. So answer this: Why are we giving Apple the benefit of the doubt in the computer gaming industry?


I told you I'd get back to this. Two "fails" in two paragraphs.

As for the second part, we have to look at another major flop in the games market, this time introduced by the biggest mobile phone company in the world. Enter the Nokia N-Gage, an ergonomic disaster which proved exactly why mobile phones and gaming weren't meant to mix.

Putting these two things aside, the focus on games from the iPhone platform is still perplexing. Conventional logic would suggest that the iPhone and iPod Touch are unsuitable for any sort of moderately complex games, for a simple reason. The iPhone has just about the worst ergonomic design of any modern gaming platform, because against all common sense, nobody bothered to put any proper buttons onto the phone.

At this point, I'd like to have a look at one of the games in particular on the iPhone, one that's maintained a lot of popularity over its lifetime. This game would be Doom, the famous title by id Software. Now, I find myself quite experienced with the game, having played it on several operating systems and platforms. While I mightn't be a "speedrun Nightmare" player, I'm certainly familiarised with Ultra-Violence difficulty at least.

I've tried playing Doom on a platform with a touchscreen before, using my Palm T|X to play the game. The experience is simply horrible, and not just because the resistive touchscreen isn't particularly responsive. It's because the touchscreen buttons lack tactile feel, and they're ergonomically badly placed. The T|X has a considerable advantage over the iPhone, though - at least it has a directional pad and a set of proper buttons on it.

Things get a lot worse when you try to translate that to the iPhone. On-screen buttons are loathsome for gaming in any circumstance, and when you have to use them to control the entire game, it soon becomes apparent that the hardware developers haven't had any experience in computer gaming themselves. I can only imagine how much worse it would be for even more complex games, and it's an utter case of design failure.

For this reason, many of the more popular games are simplistic and arguably childish in their appeal. Excuse me if I sound elitist, but these games seem more like some 14-year-old's Flash game that they're doing for a weekend programming project, and I largely set aside these games a couple of years ago. I see why a bunch of "casual" gamers might want these sorts of simplistic games, but once again, I ask, if it's the applications you're after, why not just buy an iPod Touch? The hardware is essentially the same, except that you're not trying to rely on this device as your phone, so you don't have as many issues with the battery life, and the poor quality of the OS doesn't matter as much because the iPod isn't competing in a market with multitasking OSes with more sophistication and extra in-built features. As for me, I'll stick with my Nintendo DS, with Super Mario 64 DS and Chrono Trigger.


This is a useful gaming system.
RAKtheUndead said:
...The tilt functionality is highly overrated, and makes it hard to focus on the game itself. It's a gimmick. As for the touchscreen point, that is one of the most pertinent reasons why a device built for gaming requires some dedicated buttons.

Anyway, as a matter of interest, I went back to my Palm T|X to see how my Doom performance was on it versus playing it on the PC. On the PC platform, I can play at Ultra-Violence, as I mention in the article. Now, there are two control setups that I've used at various points of time.



I hold the device in landscape mode, with the directional pad to the left. From there, I can either map the D-Pad such that the left and right keys are set to turn, with virtual touchscreen buttons on the right-hand side set to strafe in either direction, similar to the control system on the Game Boy Advance port, or else, set the left and right keys to strafe and use the stylus on the screen similarly to current Nintendo DS first-person shooters.

The first of these methods is horrible. The virtual touchscreen buttons lack sensitivity, although that's a case of the resistive touchscreen on the T|X over a capacitative model. Using these buttons with a pair of thumbs also leaves big greasy thumbprints on the buttons, and they feel unpleasant in any circumstance compared to a set of tactile buttons.

The second method is more comfortable, although there are still issues. It's closer in general feel to a PC first-person shooter, with the D-Pad closer in function to a WASD layout. In this circumstance, having a resistive touchscreen improves playability, as the stylus doesn't obscure the screen in the same way that a finger would, and it feels more comfortable in any case. However, the screen isn't as accurate as you'd really want - when moving the stylus, it tends to move in a skipping motion, making long-range accuracy a case of trial and error. There's also an issue with the positioning of the buttons on the left-hand side, seeing as the T|X isn't a device designed for gaming, and it would be more comfortable if there were a shoulder button on the left-hand side mapped to fire, similar to console and Nintendo DS first-person shooters. In this mode, I can adequately play to the standard of Hey, Not Too Rough, which is two difficulty levels below my normal difficulty on PC (and previously on the Game Boy Advance).

So, based on the evidence I've amassed so far, the list of most comfortable set-ups goes as follows, in order of preference:

PC, WASD and mouse > Game Boy Advance > PC, directional keys > Palm T|X, d-pad strafe > Palm T|X, d-pad turn > iPhone, any setup.

Doesn't turn out too well for the iPhone, and adding insult to injury would be that if the stylus sensitivity could be increased on the Palm T|X, it would probably beat the Game Boy Advance. Somehow, I don't think resistive screens are through just yet.
I think this sums it up quite nicely.
I think it'd be a good idea to spoiler box that.

The I-Pod Touch doesn't get attention as its terrible to play games and most Major Developers ignore it.
 

migo

New member
Jun 27, 2010
2,698
0
0
TiefBlau said:
If you're getting blisters from the DS, it's probably because the system you received took a detour through Hiroshima before reaching your hands, and those are the results of radiation. I can't possibly imagine how else you can get blisters on those things.
No, it's specifically how small the action buttons are. It's friction.

The stylus is indeed ergonomically shit. But I personally don't play games for the comfort, and to the extent that the DS is so uncomfortable for you that you'd rather play silly flash games is to the extent that you are losing in physical capacity to millions of schoolchildren and elderly women.
Except I'm not playing silly flash games.

Well don't keep me in suspense.
I was almost going to throw you a bone, but your above quote was rather douchebaggy, so like everyone else I'll refer you to reading the thread properly.
 

Danpascooch

Zombie Specialist
Apr 16, 2009
5,231
0
0
migo said:
danpascooch said:
To supplement my other quote, I'd like to ask WHAT EXACTLY DID I MAKE UP!?
That the games are crap. You didn't have time to go out and buy an iOS device and play all the games to come to that conclusion between posting that it had no titles at all to saying that none of them were any good. End of story.
What I said was a matter of opinion, and therefore doesn't need a citation, as an owner of an itouch I am entitled to an opinion on it's gaming capabilities.

The PSP's battery life is NOT an opinion, and therefore needs a citation, especially when it's wrong (which means it was made up)

Opinions are supposed to be "made up", battery life specifications are not.

End of story.
 

migo

New member
Jun 27, 2010
2,698
0
0
Opinions aren't supposed to
danpascooch said:
Opinions are supposed to be "made up", .
And this is where I go searching for an ignore user function.

Edit: Success!
 

TiefBlau

New member
Apr 16, 2009
904
0
0
migo said:
No, it's specifically how small the action buttons are. It's friction.
This is true. I have no idea what Nintendo was thinking by making the buttons so fucking tiny. This line of reasoning sure as hell wasn't present before in the company. The buttons on the N64 could drown my thumb in all its button-mashing glory.
migo said:
Except I'm not playing silly flash games.
And my hands don't distort themselves into funny little pretzels when I play the DS.
migo said:
I was almost going to throw you a bone, but your above quote was rather douchebaggy, so like everyone else I'll refer you to reading the thread properly.
Most people supplement their arguments with examples, is what I was getting at. Despite the belligerent nonsense that you and I clearly enjoy sputtering, the purpose of a discussion is education for at least one of the two parties. To simply assume everyone should be well-versed in the complex art of iTouch is both elitist and retarded.
 

Danpascooch

Zombie Specialist
Apr 16, 2009
5,231
0
0
migo said:
TiefBlau said:
If you're getting blisters from the DS, it's probably because the system you received took a detour through Hiroshima before reaching your hands, and those are the results of radiation. I can't possibly imagine how else you can get blisters on those things.
No, it's specifically how small the action buttons are. It's friction.

The stylus is indeed ergonomically shit. But I personally don't play games for the comfort, and to the extent that the DS is so uncomfortable for you that you'd rather play silly flash games is to the extent that you are losing in physical capacity to millions of schoolchildren and elderly women.
Except I'm not playing silly flash games.

Well don't keep me in suspense.
I was almost going to throw you a bone, but your above quote was rather douchebaggy, so like everyone else I'll refer you to reading the thread properly.
Does reading the thread "properly" mean agreeing with you mr. narcissist? People are allowed to disagree, it's how opinions work

The DS couldn't possibly give you blisters unless you rubbed your fingers over a button for hours.
 

Uber Waddles

New member
May 13, 2010
544
0
0
You show me a breakthrough game that defines the iPod touch as a console, that would warrant buying an iPod Touch AND the game and Ill accept it as a handheld.

Until then; as people said... Its a music player. With game apps. I appreciate what its apps do, and it has some fun games, but nothing more then just a "kill 10 minutes" kinda thing. The games on it are just, for the most part, casual stuff. Compare that to the DS, where I can sit down and play a game with a storyline.

I like my Touch, but when you throw it into the games arena, its just useless.
 

Danpascooch

Zombie Specialist
Apr 16, 2009
5,231
0
0
migo said:
Opinions aren't supposed to
danpascooch said:
Opinions are supposed to be "made up", .
And this is where I go searching for an ignore user function.

Edit: Success!
Are you saying I'm supposed to find a CITATION FOR MY OPINION!?

Made up means it is entirely a product of my mind, and my opinion IS a product of my mind, as it's supposed to be.

The PSP's battery life is NOT supposed to be a product entirely of your own mind, it's based on outside HARD FACTS, unlike the objective entertainment value of a game.

If you think I need a citation for something that is meant to be a matter of opinion, you're an idiot.

Go ahead and hit ignore, I'm sick of arguing with a narcissist who thinks I need CITATIONS FOR MY OPINIONS, but doesn't need citations for a HARD FACT SUCH AS BATTERY LIFE (seriously, does anyone else see how absolute bat shit retarded that is?) anyway.
 

Redlin5_v1legacy

Better Red than Dead
Aug 5, 2009
48,836
0
0
Maybe because it was never marketed as one? Whatever, I like my iPod touch but I don't consider it a console.

I love my DS and I'll stay that way.
 

migo

New member
Jun 27, 2010
2,698
0
0
Uber Waddles said:
You show me a breakthrough game that defines the iPod touch as a console, that would warrant buying an iPod Touch AND the game and Ill accept it as a handheld.

Until then; as people said... Its a music player. With game apps. I appreciate what its apps do, and it has some fun games, but nothing more then just a "kill 10 minutes" kinda thing. The games on it are just, for the most part, casual stuff. Compare that to the DS, where I can sit down and play a game with a storyline.

I like my Touch, but when you throw it into the games arena, its just useless.
That's entirely a matter of preference, but if you want a game with storyline there's Broken Sword Director's Cut. I've gotten plenty of value out of my iPod touch as a gaming platform that I couldn't see getting out of a PSP or DS. I could really say the same thing for either of those "Show me a breakthrough game that defines the DS as a console and would warrant buying a DS AND the game." - there's also a caveat from a realistic perspective that it has to be more like 10 games with the DS given their price. With the iPod touch you're paying the cost of the hardware and an incremental cost on top of that for the games thanks to the low price. Most games on the PSP aren't worth more than a few dollars for the entertainment value you get out of them, at least most of the iOS games are worth at least what you pay for them, and in some cases (like Ultraviolet Dawn) worth quite a bit more. UV Dawn is a $1 game that has the same value as EV Nova which is the next closest game of that type for the PC. If you're a big fan of space combat & trading sims, then Ultraviolet Dawn is the game that warrants buying an iPod touch. If you're a fan of 2D fighters then Street Fighter IV is that game, given that the DS and PSP aren't suitable for them thanks to the D-Pad being a poor control method for fighting games.
 

Danpascooch

Zombie Specialist
Apr 16, 2009
5,231
0
0
Don't bother posting here guys, if you disagree with him using intelligent arguments, he puts you on his ignore list, he wants to live in his own little bubble of delusion, it's really sad.
 

Akalistos

New member
Apr 23, 2010
1,440
0
0
migo said:
Akalistos said:
Oh my god, I was attack with a quote from the Simpsons... HELP! SEND HELP!
Seriously, i got better thing to do then learn stupid memes. It doesn't show how much you are awesome, it does show how much you waste your life on the internet.
No, it shows you're wrong and that I said that intentionally rather than made a mistake as you suggested.

Let me guess, you are single right?
Now that's an example of an ad hominem attack. And you fail again, I've been in a relationship for a long time. Of course you're going to just claim that isn't the case just as you claimed it wasn't a meme either.

So... what are you going to say now. You never even talked to Danpascooch or that you weren't even born?
Everything I said is absolutely correct. What he said about those games was a blatant fabrication. If you have a brain, you'd realise that to be the case.

The Nizkor Project said:
Description of Ad Hominem Tu Quoque

This fallacy is committed when it is concluded that a person's claim is false because 1) it is inconsistent with something else a person has said or 2) what a person says is inconsistent with her actions. This type of "argument" has the following form:

1. Person A makes claim X.
2. Person B asserts that A's actions or past claims are inconsistent with the truth of claim X.
3. Therefore X is false.

The fact that a person makes inconsistent claims does not make any particular claim he makes false (although of any pair of inconsistent claims only one can be true - but both can be false). Also, the fact that a person's claims are not consistent with his actions might indicate that the person is a hypocrite but this does not prove his claims are false.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ad-hominem-tu-quoque.html
Now, it's my turn to call fail, i believe.
You believe wrong. He said the games were crap, but he never played them because he didn't even know they existed, therefore he pulled it out of his ass. If you're too stupid to understand that rather simple logic, there's nothing I can do for you.

I know, but since you can't reply only in fallacies, i told you that i won't comment on this topic... and if you want to know what i think of it. You'll have to dig it up from another techno forum. Those are examples.
If you said you won't comment on the topic, why are you still here?
Because you are so stuck up to admit you acted wrong that i won't stop till you admit it. And i can do this for the next 60 years... But yeah... can't put my whole comment in your reply? You edited most of it so it would seem that i insult you, which isn't the case... that much. And btw... Ad Hominem Tu Quoque. You did it because you said that his claim of bad port or unappealing game clash with your vision. In all fairness, you could also be the one that is wrong. That's why i "bolded" some part of the description. Like I said to Danpas, a "god among man" syndrome.
 

Akalistos

New member
Apr 23, 2010
1,440
0
0
danpascooch said:
Akalistos said:
danpascooch said:
migo said:
danpascooch said:
migo said:
Given how trivially easy jailbreaking is, you certainly can. Saying you have to jailbreak for iOS is just as stupid as saying that Mass Effect is an Xbox 360 exclusive because it's a console exclusive.
If you jailbrake your itouch, you're no longer really using an itouch, since it is not meant to be jailbroken.

The droid can do the same stuff, WITHOUT hacking it, so it's better.

Oh, and you can download new roms FROM THE PHONE ITSELF.

It's so much more open than the itouch it's ridiculous, I don't have Apple standing behind me telling me I'm not allowed to do this and that.
Android is hardly open, Cyanogen received C&D letters from Google, and you have to root most android devices, not counting the N1 and ADP1/2, to be able to get full functionality out of them. Rooting/jailbreaking, same shit. It's an invalid argument, and just as stupid as the "it wasn't designed as a game system" one. It's like saying because you have to put a GPU into a PC that it's not a gaming system because it was meant to be used with Intel's Integrated Graphics.
The Android is hardly open? Funny, because I can browse the file directories, download any file extension type from the internet using the 3G network, play GBA roms, AND get things from the app store that didn't require preapproval like the Apple Appstore does, ALL WITHOUT ROOTING IT. All things you can NOT do without jailbreaking an itouch.

Sounds pretty fucking open to me.
I got into a debate with him too. He a case of "GOD AMONG MAN" syndrome. Since nobody know and can give retribution for what he does and say, he believe he is a god. It's sad, i know.
It's sick is what it is, like the new avatar BTW Ak
Thank... it's my face through the Scott Pilgrim Creation tool from the movie. I added my beard tho.
 

migo

New member
Jun 27, 2010
2,698
0
0
Akalistos said:
In all fairness, you could also be the one that is wrong.
Only someone with no grasp of logic could believe that. In this case, you.
 

mjc0961

YOU'RE a pie chart.
Nov 30, 2009
3,847
0
0
Why doesn't the iPod touch get recognition as a handheld gaming console?
Because it's not a handheld gaming console: it's an MP3/audio player that has some games on the side. My iPod Classic and my cell phone both have some games as well, but they aren't handheld gaming consoles any more than the iPod Touch is.

And quite frankly, I think the iPod Touch and iPhone get too much credit as is. I shouldn't go to a game news site and find an article about how many iPads Apple sold last week, for example. Don't care, I want news about games, not Apple's various products.
 

Akalistos

New member
Apr 23, 2010
1,440
0
0
migo said:
Akalistos said:
In all fairness, you could also be the one that is wrong.
Only someone with no grasp of logic could believe that. In this case, you.
There a saying here: There's nothing crazier then a fool that don't know he's crazy. That seem to match you perfectly. As for logic, there's wasn't a trace in your argumentation. In light of that, i'll welcome your insult as a mean to say that you don't have anything to counter me with but a poor attempt to hurt me. I will take that as your claim for surrendering, and i'll accept your surrender.
 

TiefBlau

New member
Apr 16, 2009
904
0
0
migo said:
That's entirely a matter of preference, but if you want a game with storyline there's Broken Sword Director's Cut. I've gotten plenty of value out of my iPod touch as a gaming platform that I couldn't see getting out of a PSP or DS.
Incidentally, I have a copy of that game. On the DS.
migo said:
I could really say the same thing for either of those "Show me a breakthrough game that defines the DS as a console and would warrant buying a DS AND the game." - there's also a caveat from a realistic perspective that it has to be more like 10 games with the DS given their price.
K.
Elite Beat Agents, Phoenix Wright Series, Chrono Trigger, Advance Wars Series, Aforementioned Broken Sword, Phantom Hourglass, Mario Kart, Mario 64, Metroid Prime Hunters, and Professor Layton Series. Couple that with backwards compatibility with GBA games, and the DS is probably a better deal than the Wii.

Okay, you're turn. I've heard Broken Sword, which is also on the DS and UV Dawn, which is a fairly good game for 2 dollars on iTunes, but pretty mediocre without that last prepositional phrase. Please list some other outstanding games for the touch that demonstrate what it uniquely contributes to the gaming industry.