Why I fight for Caesar's Legion in Fallout

[Mr.PlanetEater]

I sided with Yes Man, NCR, House, and Legion last. Personally the Legion was my second favorite ending (Yes Man was first). Simply because it provided a very nice contrast to the other three endings, also Caesar had some of the most insightful dialogue of any of the New Vegas characters--Chief Hanlon comes in a close tie for second with House.

 

[BeerTent]

Hrmm...

Slaughtered NCR patrols because I needed a gun for fifteen minutes. Tossed it when it was no longer needed.

Kept House alive, but segregated from his machines. So he could watch me walk away.

Fought and killed Benny with a broken leg and arm in the arena.

Killed Caesar because he yelled at me. Sadly, could not kill everyone else.

Took over new Vegas. It's mine now. The NCR will not encroach on my land.

 

[Knight Captain Kerr]

I agree with was Cass has to say about the NCR:
NCR may not be perfect but they are the best we have.

 

[darron13]

I sided with house, after all he did go through all the trouble of planning all that, and really his ideals aren't in any way *bad*

As for Legion...well even with all you said, they're still slavers and rapists who crucify and burn their enemies alive, there's not much they can do to make me side with them after that.

 

[Saladfork]

Well said.

I agree with you and Caesar in that the NCR is wrong in trying to emulate the society that destroyed itself, and that something vastly different is required if you with to survive and thrive in the fallout universe.

I especially like how Caesar clearly studied some marxist theory, and is trying to apply it. He saw a thesis, the NCR, for its' many flaws, and so he eft and created its' antithesis, his legion. Through his conflict, he hopes to achieve synthesis and create a society greater than both of them.

Of course, in most of my games I'll sieze power for my own, and I know you don't really get to influence what happens after in-game but I like to imagine that I unify and pacify the mojave under my securitrons and people loyal to me, then establish a new nation under my own enlightened despotism.

 

[SoranMBane]

Slavery is never a "necessary evil," it's just evil, even in a world as messed up as the Fallout world. There is absolutely nothing redeeming about them aside from their honesty about their views and intentions. You talk about societal "levels"? Society has already partially rebuilt; the Legion and their slavery and pillaging would just be dragging it back down into the negatives.

That said, while the NCR is the lesser of two evils compared to the Legion, they're still bloated and corrupt, and House, while slightly better than them, is almost as much of a megalomaniac as Caesar. So that's why I'd say an independent Vegas under the control of a good-aligned Courier is the best option. Let society continue to rebuild at its own pace, without bureaucracy or tyranny, and under the protection of an army of robots and their unstoppable badass master.

 

[TheBestPieEver]

I met Boone pretty early in the game, so I really developed bad blood for the Legion. That being said, however, Boone died in my game so I was free to side with 'em. I just never thought that the Legion could be maintained. I mean, we say "The Legion" because we're lazy but it is really "Caesar's Legion" relentless warriors like the Burned Man and Legate Lanius have bowed before Caesar. Yet no one in the Legion bows before Lanius. They fear him, but they do not respect him. I think that the NCR was a good opportunity for civilization in the Mojave. By going with the whole "We are a democratic republic" shtick, it is far easier to start a revolution and rebuild from that if they get too reckless. On the other hand, if Caesar is killed then his whole empire turns to dust. There was not a banner that I was happy fighting under, and to me independence was just status quo but even worse 'cause NCR wouldn't be around to waste their money in the strip. So I fought under NCR just so I could make Veronica happy by sparing the brotherhood of steel.

 

[Ryan Minns]

I sided with the legion in one play through to test something out, I played as a female character and got pissed off at the ending. I felt like the game should have stayed more true to their story to be honest and I was expecting/hoping that after helping bring the legion to new found glory I'd be taught 'my place' and knocked unconscious and used as a slave since my character was a woman and it's the way the legion works, also praising a woman like they did could cause a rebellion if other women saw it.

Though I guess that can be excuse by the fact that if I did indeed turn myself into the avatar of death and mayhem any of the male warriors would be pissing themselves at the idea of trying

 

[xorinite]

the one that says "Cross us and you'll be crucified and your wife and children will be sold into slavery?" Legion ain't nothin' to fuck with.

You are not allowed to have a wife or children in the legion.
Your breeding partner will be assigned to you if you -earn- one by performing well for the legion.
Your wife, if you have one, is now the property of the legion and will be assigned to whoever we deem she should be assigned to.
Additionally your children, if you have any, are also the property of the legion and will be assigned to someone for brainwashing and being turned into brutal bloodthirsty fanatical murderers.

Don't like it? Get on the cross.

That segways nicely into my next point; slavery. Yeah, it sucks. Yeah, it's morally wrong. But it's something of a necessary evil IMHO. I mean, for one thing, free labor. But more importantly, the threat of slavery is a powerful bargaining chip. When the Legion conquers your territory, you can either give your children up to be slaves or soldiers. Any parent would pick the latter, thus growing the Legion's powerful army.

Male children are never made into slaves. They are always assigned to training as fanatics loyal to the legion.
Your girlfriend, mother, sister or daughter on the other hand... I mean that's 50% of the human race right there.

Civilizations have to start at the bottom and build their way up, and the Legion realizes it.

No they don't, honestly look at development in the world today.

They may seem evil on the surface, but I think they're the best hope for the Mojave. The NCR is bloated, corrupt, and incompetent. As my dad would say, they couldn't find their ass with both hands.

North Korea/Stalin's Russia/Hitler's Germany/Ingsoc may seem evil on the surface, but they are the best hope for a united Korea/a class revolution/a purified Europe/total victory.

Seriously, how can you argue in favour of 1984 run by violently misogynistic historical re creationists, working for a totalitarian dictatorship which in all likely hood will collapse into warring factions as soon as there is a question about the inheritance of the laurel crown.
Everyone in the legion is a slave not just the slaves you may be a pampered slave, but you are still property of the legion to do with as they see fit.

Additionally, if you play FO 1 and 2 and you will learn about the origins and nature of NCR to a much greater degree than is revealed in NV. You may come to realise that they really are the 'good guys' at least from the options given to you.

If you insist on a dictatorship with no rights for any of the people House is a far better option.
He is a genius, will probably restore society to a greater level of technology than its ever had, and is able to single handedly protect the entire area even from nuclear bombardment, and is effectively immortal so there won't be a problem of inheritance of his domain.

People always say jokingly about Einstein; He's not that smart, he's dead.
You cannot make the same joke about House (unless you killed him that is)

 

[Lord Garnaat]

No, you are wrong. When you play New Vegas, you can play as the Legion if you want to be a mass-murdering psychopath for a pure-evil character playthrough. You don't play for them because you think you're doing the right thing because the Legion has absolutely no redeeming qualities whatsoever. They rape and murder and enslave people indiscriminately, they treat women like pack mules, they inflict horrific punishments for the most minor of crimes, and they have no regard for human dignity or humanity in the slightest.

Yes, the NCR isn't perfect. They're over-expansionist, over-zealous in defending what they think is there's, and they have a serious problem with corruption. But they're still trying to do the right thing, bringing liberty and democracy and order to the Mojave without slaughtering everyone in sight. There are a few bad apples but for the most part they are defending the people of the wastes and bringing them into a civilized society where they don't have to worry about random raiders and monsters.

And what exactly is the great benefit that the Mojave get from the Legion? Safer roads for traders. Which is nice, don't get me wrong, but they get that BY MURDERING AND ENSLAVING EVERYONE THEY FIND! Is a low crime rate really worth that? All the Legion does is make a desert, and call it "peace".

 

[Wafflepunk]

Personally, I sided with House. My reasons for this are simple. To borrow the "levels" metaphor, if Legion is at level 1, and NCR is trying for level 5, Mr. House claims that with control of New Vegas, he could reach 6 and beyond. Based on what I saw in his story, I believe him. He seems more practical than the NCR, but isn't as brutal as Caesar. Plus, it doesn't look like he's dying anytime soon, so anything he does will last.

I considered siding with Yes Man, but then all of House's knowledge would be lost, and New Vegas would be the same it is now, but with a homicidal, power-mad delivery boy in charge. The Omertas would have killed me by the end of the week.

 

[Lonewolfm16]

I would just like to point out that the NCR and the Khans went to war just like any other faction and the massacre was a mistake. A terrible one but it wasn't somthing they set out to do. In addtion the Khans describe themselves as raiders and mention that they attacked NCR holdings. I don't see how the NCR is worse just because they killed innocents who were women. There is more of a point with the children but still the Khans killed merchants and caravaners. I personally was always pro-NCR, they arent perfect but at least they try to restore law and order and at least they are democratic. Yes they tend to only care about those under their rule, but they are only one nation with a responsibility to care for its citizens not everyone. If you join then the NCR will strive to protect and supply you. In addtion if you find the acts of the NCR is the Khans massacre so objectionable how do you completely agree with conquerers who wipe out entire cities leaving only those who submit to slavery in their wake? I could understand role-playing pro legion but if you think that in the situation presented the legion is the most moral group than I have to question your sanity.

 

[Saviordd1]

Yes yes, very convincing, grey and grey and bad governing on both sides.

But this is what it comes down to, do I support a bloated but well meaning retarded government?

Or do I support a bunch of sociopathic, misogynistic, homophobic hypocritical dickwads?

That choice was VERY easy.

 

[Texas Joker 52]

To reiterate some of the above, did you play Fallout 1 or 2? I was immediately on the side of the NCR, even with all their faults, because of what I went through to help them in the earlier games.

Also, a phrase comes to mind from your justification of the Legion, "he who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither".

The above pretty handily states one of the reasons why I always side with the NCR. Really, it boils down to this in my eyes: You can either side with the faction that is simply incompetent, or the faction that is pretty openly evil.

Not only that, but I tend to play the sort of character that will see no reason to undermine their morals simply because the world has gone to shit. Slavery, no go. I usually shoot slavers on sight, regardless of who they're aligned with, simply on principle.

But, that's me. Really, I don't see why you should feel the need to justify why you side with the Legion in a game. If you have fun that way, good on ya, and keep on doing what you're doing. Not everyone needs to side with House, Yes Man or NCR, and really, there should be some people who side with the Legion. Diversity is one of the spices of life.

... Not that that will stop me from slaughtering Legionnaires with a mile-wide grin on my face, but hey, that's just how I play.

 

[Jfswift]

I wouldn't be opposed to caesers plan if not for the way he treats his slaves. That was the deciding factor for me, although his brutal ways do work to instill order in a world without. I decided to go with yes man on my play through because the NCR was too restrictive, mr house was an arrogant douche and caeser's society would likely never change and quality of life would suffer since there would always be threat of force and slavery.

Now in fallout 3: the Pitt, I chose to keep the people enslaved but only because the leader there ultimately had a plan to fix society and cure disease. He also eventually would release them.

I'm not sure how useful slavery is though. In theory it's cheap labor but I would expect a lack of trust and quality from workers like that. Maybe it's better to just contract out workers? What do you guys/gals think?

 

[MajorTomServo]

***Just in case: SPOILER ALERT***

So far I tried being independent, and I must say, the ending is fairly good, I think that the best option is for NV to be on its own and done with it. Of course, to make that happen, I started Helios sending the energy to Freeside and the Strip. Got rid of the White Gloves and Changed the management of the Omertas and let the Chairmen on their own, except for Benny. I helped the Followers of the Apocalypse in Freeside, and that got me access to the Enclave remnants who most of them wanted to help the NCR, but thought it would be better to be independent, so that I did. I wan to try House next time, I want to see what he has to offer.

EDIT: I forgot the most important part of the topic; I don't support neither Legion or NCR ideas, I think the NCR is what Ulysses said "A group that tries to simulate the former ways of government without learning that it was their way of doing things that ended the old world." Or something among those lines. As for the Legion, I still think they're also in the mistake, right, they unify tribes by assimilating them and killing those who opposes them with no mercy. They think of women as an inferior being, dissing anything that could came from them, allowing any Legion member to abuse of them with no consequences. And probably this is something that they missed out while doing the game, but for some reason, it appears the Legion does not have any scientific department or even group of people that helps them with that, so they have no use of technology from what it seems. But that's probably something they missed while making the game.

So I don't support neither major faction, but I want to try House next time.

 

[dyre]

Caesar reminds me of Germany's Otto von Bismarck; a capable dictator who left no qualified candidates to take over after his death. I think one of the NPCs even said his Legion would only last as long as he did. Dictatorships ruled by the force of character of the leader are usually only successful for one generation.

Also, Caesar supports slavery, which absolutely isn't a necessary evil. Look what the NCR has done without it; that is, they've made a much more civilized society, with equitable treatment of women, villages with a decent degree of freedom, etc. Sure, NCR has propaganda, and some of their rhetoric reminds me of some of the more regrettable stuff American politicians say/ have said. But at the end of the day, the NCR IS better, even if their propaganda overrates them a bit. The people living under Caesar, in return for security (which btw people in the NCR have too, just not those on the outskirts like the Mojave desert), lose liberty, quality of life, the rights of their women, and the freedom of their sons (who seem to all be conscripted into the military).

At the end of the day, Caesar is a cruel bastard not because it is necessary. He is a cruel bastard because it is convenient, because it's the easy way to maintain order. NCR strives for (to a degree) civil society, patriotism, a dream of a better future; Caesar only uses strength and fear.

 

[PirateRose]

It's very hard to be a woman in real life and side with Legion with how they treat all women as sex slaves. I even attempted to play a male character once for RP purposes and still couldn't do it.

In fact, the first time I played, I had wiped out Cottonwood Cove and afterwords wondered off and found these NCR troops. One of the guys asked me to go take care of them, I told him I already did, and he praised the irony that a woman single-handedly wiped the Legion camp out.

Felt real good.

Also, try to go into V.A.T.S and check out the slave's legs at the Fort. The one's carrying a ton of stuff around. Their legs are heavily damaged. The Legion treats their slaves with zero respect.

I prefer the independent New Vegas ending on my main Courier.

You say NCR wants to restore old world order like it's a bad thing, which I agree. However I'm seriously puzzled that it's a good thing the Legion wants to restore ancient world order. There's a reason it's ancient. The idea to go even further back in time is horrible. I prefer the idea of not working backwards.

 

[Vivi22]

That segways nicely into my next point; slavery. Yeah, it sucks. Yeah, it's morally wrong. But it's something of a necessary evil IMHO. I mean, for one thing, free labor.

Slaves are certainly labour, but it's anything but free.