Why is rape or even just sex worse than death?

[bobstone]

how can rape be worse then death when you can recover from a rape.

rape: really bad, not everyone can resume their lives after it, but it is doable. you and your loved ones have to do what you can

death: nothing left, future stopped, no recovery. your loved ones have to do what they can.

I was suicidal at one point in time, part from anti depression meds and part from my life experiences at the time. what I learned is that while stuff can suck and be bad, death is no answer because everything changes every day. I still occasionally feel just as bad as I did then, but death is never an option now.

also as other people pointed out. a lot of rape victims are forced by threat of death.... so even at that time people can say that rape is not worse then death. it is after the fact when looking for a way to live their life, do most victims turn to death or start saying death is better. however theses victims either commit suicide or go on with their lives. I challenge any of you to provide factual numbers that show a majority of rape victims commit suicide afterwords. if death was better then it we would have a huge amount of suicides.

also the "death is better then (blank)" statement is purely hyperbole to enlarge the awareness of the second item. life is about living. "if you fail try again." everyone is taught that. I am not saying being raped is a failure, but the inability live afterwords is. it sucks, but it is true.

also to look at the legal stand point, most non religious controlled governments have a death penalty for murder, but not for rape. that alone seems kinda telling, if rape was worse then death, you would see the death penalty for rape cases more.


lastly on original topic, other have said it but will restate.

rape is not shown because the direct victims of rape are still around, and will rightfully raise hell about it.

death is because the direct victims are not around.

in games how many violent crimes that leave victims are really portrayed on average? not many, kinda of odd.

 

[Terminal Blue]

You have no idea at all what you're talking about.

Well, considering you clearly didn't bother to read my post properly, that makes two of us.

Most rapes are not violent, for starters.

Did it go over your head that the point of mine you quoted was irony, or do you just make a point of arguing with people for no good reason, because with all the vile shit on this thread is this honestly what you found most offensive? Really?

But yeah, let me spell this out very clearly.

I know.

Look up at the title of this thread. It reads "why is rape or even just sex worse than death?". I disagree with that assumption, therefore I am pursuing it to its logical conclusion to illustrate that it leads to an abhorent assumption, i.e. that rape which isn't "violent" (to use your fucked up definition of violence) isn't actually rape.

Do you understand now?

The amount of self-loathing, disgust and angst one experiences are not something you would understand.

Maybe not, but you don't get to "understand" people you've never met any more than I do.

By all means, conclude that you'd be better off dead. I'm not going to judge you for it or pretend I understand how you feel. But don't insult other people by calling the same judgement on them, because included in that judgement are people I happen to know better than you.

Most people who are raped don't refuse to call for help or to fight back because they are scared of dying.

Did I say they were? Did I make any point about how rape victims actually feel or react beyond pointing out that people don't generally go down fighting to the last breath?

I apologise for this. But seriously, take the fucking hint.

 

[Grimbold]

A rape victim can decide to end his trauma by comitting suicide.
A murder victim can not decide to be raped instead.
Therefore, not looking at variable cultural and personal opinions regarding rape or sex, rape is better than death.

 

[Mikeyfell]

Murder is justifiable: "I had to kill them in self defense" etc
There are a lot of things you can do worse than kill someone. (Like those Enron guys who stole billions of dollars from the whole state of California. They are worse criminals than any murderers)
and even if you're not killing in self defense the victim is dead afterwards, they don't have to live with what happened to them.

Rape is not justifiable by any definition.
and if a rape victim survives they're scared for the rest of their lives.
I have a friend who was raped 3 years ago and she hasn't been able to relax since then.
Being in a crowd terrifies her and being alone is even worse.
She wishes she was dead, and frankly I can't blame her.

 

[bobstone]

Murder is justifiable: "I had to kill them in self defense" etc
There are a lot of things you can do worse than kill someone. (Like those Enron guys who stole billions of dollars from the whole state of California. They are worse criminals than any murderers)
and even if you're not killing in self defense the victim is dead afterwards, they don't have to live with what happened to them.

if those Enron guys where to steal money or kill you, which would be worse? I for one would much rather be alive and living in a state that lost "billions" vs dead.

but it seems to me that you would have preferred SOMEONE ELSE die vs the money lost. what if that someone who dies was the next Einstein?

another way to look at it is, if you could clear that theft and make it right by having SOMEONE die right now. you think that should happen?

and whats with "they don't have to live with it"... really its all ok cause they don't have to live with it??????? that is insane logic.


so I gather from your argument that you think money is more important the life. wow how corporations have corrupted our values...


it is not justifiable, it's a poor argument. rape is an originating act, it is the crime in it self, to kill in defense has nothing to do with it. don't compare defense to rape.



touchy part here this is aside from the rest of the argument and just a personal feeling I need to make clear

She wishes she was dead, and frankly I can't blame her.

don't you think that having that attitude is not helping her? When I was suicidal the last thing I needed was someone who thought "well he might have a point" I needed "people making sure that I knew life was worth living". not people who where unsure of it them selves.

this is not an attack, I feel for your friend, I am not belittling rape in anyway, it is just that I have just been suicidal my self and wanted to comment on what you said because I honestly feel it is the wrong attitude to have around potential suicide victims.

 

[maninahat]

I don't think it is worse, but it is often considered worse because whilst death brings an immediate end to the victim's suffering, rape is also more oppressive, prolongued, and torturous in nature. A rapist demeans their victim, forcing an individual, and depriving them. Rape is basically assault, combined with slavery, combined with the broader social view that a person can be "sullied" by bad sex.

Besides the obvious reasons, there is an important logical rationale for why death should be considered worse than rape. Suppose society put all crimes on a scale. The higher up the scale, the worse the punishment. If it places rape higher than murder, society is basically incentivising rapists to kill their victims. Murder garners a smaller punishment, and with the stakes being as high as they are, it is in the rapist's interest to get rid of the key witness who might prove xe committed rape. Placing rape lower in the scale discourages rapists from murder, as that would increase the severity of their punishment.

 

[Buizel91]

Watching some dude get decapitated, while pretty nasty, isn't nearly as nasty as watching someone have their kneecaps smashed in with a hammer.

Cheers for that, my knees got a shooting pain, and i cringed :L

But yeh, what pretty much everyone is saying. Seeing someone die, you will be shocked, but not nearly as shocked as seeing someone getting raped/tortured.

 

[bobstone]

Watching some dude get decapitated, while pretty nasty, isn't nearly as nasty as watching someone have their kneecaps smashed in with a hammer.

Cheers for that, my knees got a shooting pain, and i cringed :L

But yeh, what pretty much everyone is saying. Seeing someone die, you will be shocked, but not nearly as shocked as seeing someone getting raped/tortured.

everyone can sympize with pain cause everyone has felt pain, of course rape is different, but we still sympathize with it because of its bases in pain and degradation.

death on the other had is something that mostly NO ONE has first hand experience with....

so death is fictionalized in our mind and happens to other people, while rape and other violence is something that can happen to us.

you learn to fear stuff so you can avoid it. death however is in the long term unavoidable, plus you can never really experience it to learn about it so we react differently to it.

 

[sumanoskae]

Easy, we're used to death. We see people killed onscreen all the time, even when it's gruesome, it's simple, black and white. It's easy for us to process and deal with. Rape is a very uncomfortable subject, so it doesn't get trivialized the way death does, because anyone who touches it is super careful about being sensitive.

Why are we not more sensitive to people who've had loved ones die in war, for example? a couple reasons.

First of all, I admit that equating rape to killing is kind of like equating murder to sex. Sex is a broad category, it isn't a bad thing until you remove consent. Murder implies the unprovoked killing of an innocent, it IS an inherently bad thing.

Not all the killing we see onscreen is bad, a lot of it happens to bad people that deserve it. not complex at all, it doesn't make us question anything or deal with anything controversial, it's just bad people paying for what they did. (Or so it's presented).

Next, why are we okay with watching people be butchered in Manhunt but no okay with sexual assault? Well most people AREN'T okay with Manhunt, it's just that nobody's surprised about it anymore.

In film, whenever rape is shown, it's usually a way to identify a character as reprehensible, and whenever murder is shown, it's usually for the same reason. Film can get away with this because people don't take the default position that film is exploitative trash, assuming it's not capable of presenting anything other then self glorification. In other words, somebody already slapped the idiot collective in the face and told them to stop treating films like crap. Games haven't been as fortunate. We still have to step on eggshells.

Admittedly, doing a rape scene in a game that was meaningful without resorting to simply showing it (Which is an option) would be difficult. I don't think anyone crazy enough to enjoy being involved in rape would openly admit it, so whatever depraved section of audience that is isn't going to make noise. For everyone else, nobody wants to get rapped, no one wants to rape anyone, so making us watch is pretty much the only solution that could be of any use to a sane human being. But I think it's possible.

So the reason nobody wants to show it is because douchebag nation will assume they're promoting rape simply because it's the worst case scenario they an think of, and they don't want to nut up and admit to being wrong about us.

As for games like Rape Lay, well that's sick and should be shunned and ignored in the hopes that it will fade into obscurity.

 

[freaper]

Scars of mental and physical abuse heal?

Bull-fucking-shit

We are more tolerant towards death because it's an everyday affair, like it or not. Rape on the other hand is hidden behind taboos and abuse of power. There's no way you'd hear on the news how many women got raped wherever, while we get the exact number of victims of a bank heist.

Hell, even if we were less prude in our modern society, I hardly doubt anyone would want rape to be present in a game, unless the problem itself were tackled. I'm just going to point towards ME3; Cerberus troops getting blown to smithereens by fire explosions: What gives? Cortez hitting on Shepard: Shit bricks!

 

[AngleWyrm]

Obviously this is not a new thought. But I'm thinking more from a biology/psychology perspective. If I see a sexual crime I'm like ewww, but if I see someone's head being ripped off I'm like eh.

Is this a societal thing, caused by the Abrahamic religions? Is it biological? What gives?

It is a social ordinance, a pressure exerted by society in response to the perception of overpopulation. Even the thread title "or even just sex" demonstrates we are not talking about criminal behavior, we are talking about taboos imposed by current culture.

The situation was different in the colonial days of the USA, when there was lots of room and few people. Back then "family values" were the thing. Get married and have lots of children. Raise your very own town full of great grand-kids if you can.

And it seems likely that the situation will change in the future, for reasons we do not yet know.

 

[remnant_phoenix]

I'll jump on board with the "rape is torture and torture is harder to watch for most people" bandwagon here. Also, usually when someone's killed in a game or whatever, it's pretty quickly over with and you've moved onto the next person/place/thing.

I agree with this. For someone to be raped is for someone to be subjected to serious physical, emotional, and mental trauma. For someone to be killed, there will likely be some physical trauma from the pain leading up to the death, and some emotional/mental trauma of "I don't want to die!," but then it's over, unless you believe in an afterlife, but that's a whole different can of worms we shouldn't get into here. Also, if someone is subject to a quick kill like a gunshot to the head, there's may be no trauma at all.

I think it's more about the criminal than the victim. Most of us can imagine circumstances in which we could kill another human being and be justified in doing so, but those justifications can never really exist for rape.

I agree here as well. I am a non-violent person and support non-violent solutions to problems whenever possible, but if I knew that someone was intent on killing my family and the only way to stop this person was to kill them, I would likely feel justified in ending their life. I can't imagine any plausible scenario in which I could ever feel justified in raping someone...even typing those words just now make me shudder, thus the OP's point is further proven.

 

[GraveeKing]

at least they CAN recover.

Or stay broken for the rest of their miserable lives. We have 6 pages of debate with people saying that rape is as permanent as death (and of course lasts way longer) and you decided to skip them all?

Or. You may note I said CAN, there's 0% chance of returning from death. With physiological damage at least there's a chance of it being reversible, even if it's only slightly.

I also didn't take any notice of the inevitable argument that was to unfold from 'Death VS Rape - which is worse' because it's rather off-topic, and will cause an almighty flame-war. Some people are terribly affected by what happens to them, some manage to get on with their lives.
Also take into consideration, that death affects a lot of others, rape affects that one personally terribly I admit - maybe for the rest of their lives even, but death will effect every family member and loved one who didn't get to say goodbye.

Now please - lets stay a little more on topic, I believe this discussion is on Rape being worse than death IN VIDEO-GAMES, not which is genuinely worse.

 

[TheFederation]

in gaming you kill everyone, even if your the good guy, but if you rape someone in a game, then your probably not the good guy, at least i hope so

 

[The Gnome King]

Maybe it's because the trauma of forced sexual activity is seen to be worse than just being killed. I mean, which seems worse, dead or scarred for the forseeable future, possibly even life?

Dead seems worse. I can always go to therapy. Life means new days, new beginnings, new choices, new possibilities.

Death means none of those things. So yeah, I'd much rather be raped.

 

[Kebabco]

It's a feminine bias in our culture. If rape is pictured as terrifying as it currently is it gives feminist groups and VAWA-proponents more ammunition for sexist legislation.

 

[ElPatron]

Or. You may note I said CAN, there's 0% chance of returning from death.

Actually it happened before, but that's not the point.

Death is as permanent as rape. But death is certain and there is no way to defeat in the long run - death is part of our lives and even when we take everything for granted we recognize our mortality.

We have accepted death. We don't accept rape.

It's a feminine bias in our culture.

I kinda have to agree with this, because I can't bring myself to think that raping a man is as bad as raping a woman. We are all a bit biased because at the end of the day, females carry our offspring.

I'm going with cultural and natural bias.

 

[bobstone]

I kinda have to agree with this, because I can't bring myself to think that raping a man is as bad as raping a woman. We are all a bit biased because at the end of the day, females carry our offspring.

I'm going with cultural and natural bias.

except most male rape occur from another male.... and extremely violent.
http://www.ncvc.org/ncvc/main.aspx?dbName=DocumentViewer&DocumentID=32361
not the most up to date study but all I found quick like. take it or leave it, but I recommend a grain of salt be added to some of the information given. since parts of it come from a male dominant time.


aside from that.

I am really confused how something that; however hard, is recoverable from, is worse then the end of your existence?

it is harsh of me to say but....

to think that death is better is to give up. the only one truism of our life is that we where put on this world. that is all. the only guaranteed thing you get at creation is life.
it may be is short, long, painful, or sweet but it is all you got.

also you all talk about how common place death is, how many of you had someone close to them die through violence? death is not common place. you all experianced death of old age and natural causes with people you know but that is not what murder or suicide is, it is different. you all say "o if I see a guy getting maimed i will go ewww but rape..." who here has seen either irl? I don't mean oops I cut my arm off cause of an accident, i mean really watching someone cut someone up bad.

anyway question to you all
what do you all really think of death, we all agree that rape is realllllllllly bad I am fully support this , but take it out of the equation and just think about all the impact death has. then compare them again.

I cant expect to change most of your views on this but I really feel strongly about death , I am not scared of it to any unreasonable degree but is a very big subject with me.

 

[GraveeKing]

-snip-
We have accepted death. We don't accept rape.

Of course, but lets be honest - it's more the murder you get in games, we may accept mortality and death, but I do believe ending someones life earlier than their natural time was the point I was getting at. Causing death in any way shape or form is always a terrible thing.

 

[ElPatron]

Causing death in any way shape or form is always a terrible thing.

That is the kind of logic that makes me look bad when I say I want some kind of "Stand Your Ground" law after Socialism decided it was okay for a kid who was older than "me" and still in school (with my parents paying for taxes to keep him in school) to bully and mug me, never develop any skill, knock up a girl, have a kid who will be older than my kids (who will be bullied and mugged by him) while I am paying taxes so that the government can give him a house and pay him welfare checks every month, and still have the "right" to break into my house and put my family in danger because he's poor.

Death is justifiable every time you require it as a last resort.

Ending someone's life only costs someone's time, it only anticipates the inevitable.