Women aren't Babies

[Your once and future Fanboy]

The problem with alot of the issues with misogynist comments and the reactions they get are the way people think/reacts to these comments.
Say for example a woman makes a video response to a youtube video by a man, and in her video she calls him X number of negative things (a**hole, motherf*cker, ect) but also male specific insults. Those would be concidered insulting, but if the roles where reversed and he would use female specific insults at her, it would raise flags as a misogynistic response.

We see the same with comments that use slurs about race or sexual orientation, if you are part of the percived minority (i.e not a white, straight male), any negative comment towards you from someone in the percived majority (white, straight male) it's more likely to be percived as a "hate" comment (whether it was or not).
(NB! I'am not inclining that acctual racist or homophobic comments are O.K or that people shouldn't react to them)
This is why many then tend to rally together and "defend" the person of the percived minority.
But the special thing with women are that a big part of their struggle for equality is the right to be viewed as though, strong and capable as any man, and therefore protective and assisting gestures/actions can be percived as belitteling, degrading or even misygonistic.

So I agree that we should hope and strive for true equality (or as close as we can get to it at least), but understand that all the baggage from civil rights movements and the disassemblement of the patriarchy are still effecting us and our views today.

 

[Don Savik]

Women don't need no man, eh?

Cool beans. And while you're speaking on behalf of all women ever, can you tell them via hivemind that I'm available and if they want my phone number just message me on my Escapist profile.

Might as well be opportunistic here *shrug*

I will not use my super powers to help you land a girlfriend! There's something seedy about it, lol.

Well aren't you a killjoy? Man just trying to get some companionship, and all of a sudden its SEEDY. Now that's just a negative stereotype :C

SNIP

I think you should take a break from debating when you've gotten to the point were thinking that relating humans to lions helps explain gender roles. Its quite frankly a bit silly. We have as much in common with lions as we do with badgers and elephants and kangaroos.

See how silly these threads have become?

 

[zefiris]

Oh, and small addendum:

Vicious harassment needs to stop in general, obviously. It's just harsher against women, but that doesn't mean vicious harassment and death threats against some random white guy would be okay.

Say, if a guy plays a Hobgoblin Mushroom farmer, they shouldn't get death threats just because they like Mushroom farming instead of Booger-golem building, despite many MMO-players evidently feeling otherwise (replace Mushroom farming with random class in random MMO)

BUT that said, can we stop having 'girl gamers' identifying themselves

Can you stop blowing a fuse whenever a female mentions she's female? Men do announce their gender all the time ("I'm a Paladin-loving guy", for example), but when a woman does it, suddenly she's accused of "attention whoring". Similarly, if you talk as if someone is a guy, and they correct you, that's entirely fine and not "attention whoring", either. If you don't like it, maybe stop gendering random people?

The hostility many men have towards a visible woman is downright silly.

 

[Malkavian]

I'm almost certain that someone else has asked you this already, but:

Women aren't babies.

Women don't need people to protect them.

Women don't need white knights.

Women don't need to be treated differently.

Women do need to be treated like a human being, not a gender.

What, then, are you doing in this very post?

 

[Clearing the Eye]

Oh, and small addendum:

Vicious harassment needs to stop in general, obviously. It's just harsher against women, but that doesn't mean vicious harassment and death threats against some random white guy would be okay.

Say, if a guy plays a Hobgoblin Mushroom farmer, they shouldn't get death threats just because they like Mushroom farming instead of Booger-golem building, despite many MMO-players evidently feeling otherwise (replace Mushroom farming with random class in random MMO)

BUT that said, can we stop having 'girl gamers' identifying themselves

Can you stop blowing a fuse whenever a female mentions she's female? Men do announce their gender all the time ("I'm a Paladin-loving guy", for example), but when a woman does it, suddenly she's accused of "attention whoring". Similarly, if you talk as if someone is a guy, and they correct you, that's entirely fine and not "attention whoring", either. If you don't like it, maybe stop gendering random people?

The hostility many men have towards a visible woman is downright silly.

I could make the joke about bleeding and not dying being the cause of such fear, but I won't. I'm just too classy ;P

 

[Bassik]

I'm almost certain that someone else has asked you this already, but:

Women aren't babies.

Women don't need people to protect them.

Women don't need white knights.

Women don't need to be treated differently.

Women do need to be treated like a human being, not a gender.

What, then, are you doing in this very post?

Oh, snap!

 

[Your once and future Fanboy]

Sorry for the double post but I wanted clarify something about my earlier post.

Here on the internet, what people use as insults are usually that which get the biggest reactions. It's something we see in gameing, forums and youtube responses.
That's why many use the word rape instead of words like beat (i.e "I raped you" instead of "I beat you", same can be said for the word owned/ pwned) in games like CoD, Halo or Street Fighter.

The provocative use of misogyny, homophobia and racism have become a part of the internet community's "humor", and many use these "jokes" even though there aren't real hate or bigotry there (I mean "jokes" in the loosest term possible).

That's what I meant when I refered to percived hate and use of slurs in my original comment.

 

[Clearing the Eye]

Male or female... the only thing I am interested in is if they like Mario, and if they do, then they are my friends.

I'm having a really hilarious vision of how you date someone right now. ;-p

"You know where the secret mushroom is, *****?"

-"What? I don't, um..."

"This date is over!

 

[Treblaine]

SNIP

I think you should take a break from debating when you've gotten to the point were thinking that relating humans to lions helps explain gender roles. Its quite frankly a bit silly. We have as much in common with lions as we do with badgers and elephants and kangaroos.

See how silly these threads have become?

Hmm, don't be so unscientific to dismiss human's common traits with other mammals. I am illustrating an evolutionary trap in sexual reproduction. You seem to be using the fallacy of Argument from Incredulity which is no argument by flatly calling it "silly" and denying any explanatory purpose.

We have a lot in common with lions, with a close group social structure and also extreme gender dimorphism. Most mammals the males and females are almost impossible to tell apart, Realise that it takes a close examination to tell chimp gender apart, our closest LIVING evolutionary ancestor. But men naturally grow beards and even without beards have much more pronounced jaw and loss of fat deposits in the face. I rememberer reading a study of rabbit behaviour that they could tell if a male human was approaching or a female, but didn't distinguish gender with any other animals.

Looking at early man it was in fact the females who provided most of the calories in pre-historic diet, as the men extended huge energy trying to hunt for meat while the women efficiently gathered for food. This can be seen today by how you will die if you try to eat mainly game meat like rabbits and birds, called protein poisoning because the human liver can digest so little protein and we need high carbohydrate diet that you get from seeds, tubers, fruits and nuts.

 

[Don Savik]

SNIP

I think you should take a break from debating when you've gotten to the point were thinking that relating humans to lions helps explain gender roles. Its quite frankly a bit silly. We have as much in common with lions as we do with badgers and elephants and kangaroos.

See how silly these threads have become?

snip

What I mean is look how obtuse you're becoming with your arguments. People that don't agree with you aren't going to be won over by an article about rabbits discerning male humans from females.

And in the end all this internet rambling isn't going to solve anything. I know the word "sexist" and "misogynist" have been thrown around this site a bazillion times, but I don't think the majority of people on the escapist (probably about 90%) are the type of people that spew these kinds of insults towards women anyways. If they did they would've probably been scared off or banned by now.

 

[Treblaine]

Hmm, don't be so unscientific to dismiss human's common traits with other mammals. I am illustrating an evolutionary trap in sexual reproduction. You seem to be using the fallacy of Argument from Incredulity which is no argument by flatly calling it "silly" and denying any explanatory purpose.

We have a lot in common with lions, with a close group social structure and also extreme gender dimorphism. Most mammals the males and females are almost impossible to tell apart, Realise that it takes a close examination to tell chimp gender apart, our closest LIVING evolutionary ancestor. But men naturally grow beards and even without beards have much more pronounced jaw and loss of fat deposits in the face. I rememberer reading a study of rabbit behaviour that they could tell if a male human was approaching or a female, but didn't distinguish gender with any other animals.

Looking at early man it was in fact the females who provided most of the calories in pre-historic diet, as the men extended huge energy trying to hunt for meat while the women efficiently gathered for food. This can be seen today by how you will die if you try to eat mainly game meat like rabbits and birds, called protein poisoning because the human liver can digest so little protein and we need high carbohydrate diet that you get from seeds, tubers, fruits and nuts.

What I mean is look how obtuse you're becoming with your arguments. People that don't agree with you aren't going to be won over by an article about rabbits discerning male humans from females.

And in the end all this internet rambling isn't going to solve anything. I know the word "sexist" and "misogynist" have been thrown around this site a bazillion times, but I don't think the majority of people on the escapist (probably about 90%) are the type of people that spew these kinds of insults towards women anyways. If they did they would've probably been scared off or banned by now.

You are misrepresenting my argument which was NOT merely "rabbits can tell men from women", you know that, I know that, we ALL know that.

SO you are making a straw man out of my argument, then think wilful incredulity is enough.

These terms are not just "thrown around". They are used in discussions that you refuse to address, only misrepresent and dismiss as silly.

And this is about the fundamentals of how men interact and view women on issues such as "chivalry".

 

[Charli]

He's a grandmotherfucker.

You saying there is something wrong about having sex with elderly women? You ageist!

Hey I could be a slut/*****/'Some deregatory term for a woman' too some people just like that sort of thing!

But damn would you need alot of lube. *wince* Doesn't appeal to my brain no.

Also my Grandmother (mothers side) is a unbelievably awful person, so the image is win-win in my brain.

 

[Clearing the Eye]

But damn would you need alot of lube.

Wh... Why wold bring that up? Fine. Whatever. I didn't want to sleep tonight anyway.

 

[Charli]

But damn would you need alot of lube.

Wh... Why wold bring that up? Fine. Whatever. I didn't want to sleep tonight anyway.

*cackle* Let the image of dusty old vagina haunt your nightmaaares.

Okay okay. I'll stop now.

 

[MelasZepheos_v1legacy]

snip

It's different. I can play Call of Duty as a man and get called names once or twice, particularly if I play particularly badly or well. A woman will log on and be insulted near constantly, ganged up on despite the official teams and threatened with rape and death and cancer. Yes, I've endured a few online taunts in my time, but they were one or two at a time, usually connected with my actions. I once saw one of my female gamer friends get insulted for twenty minutes straight without a single pause in people attacking her verbally until she eventually quit just to give her ears a rest. It's a wholly different situation.

And no, I don't remember the last time we had an Escapist article because someone called a black man an offensive racist slur, but I do remember the last time the police came and arrested someone in a bar I was playing at for racially insulting someone. Also, given that the UK is now considering a bill which will allow people to receive the information of people who racially insult or slander them online, I might very soon be seeing the Escapist article about a man being taken to court for using racial slurs in an online match.

It is more wrong to call a woman a sexist slur than it is to call a man a dickhead, just like it's more wrong to call a black man a racist slur than it is to call a white man a dickhead or a homosexual man a ****** than it is to call a striaght man a dickhead. Calling someone a bad name is insulting, calling someone a name specific to their gender, race, religion or sexuality is prejudice and the beginnings of a hate crime.

I do treat women as individuals, and if I saw an individual beginning harassed and threatened with rape because they were a women then I'd report their attacker to the police. It's got nothing to do with their gender, it's got to do with the fact that prejudice and hate crime is wrong. If someone found a way to insult me as a white man specifically (say if I moved to Saudi Arabia somewhere) then I'd expect the same courtesy, and I wouldn't get insulted and angry at people who were trying to help me, even if it was perhaps misguided and over-compensating.

 

[Clearing the Eye]

A woman will log on and be insulted near constantly, ganged up on despite the official teams and threatened with rape and death and cancer.

Conjecture. We've already talked about this in the thread. The amount of harassment women receive gaming is so blown out of proportion that it's mind boggling. It's become accepted to simply claim women as a whole get "insulted near constantly," despite no one proving it. All we ever get is a couple of examples and some personal experience. Want personal experience? I've only ever seen one female friend be called a name--tranny. One. Ever. Number of men I've seen troll each other and be general assholes? Countless.

You know why men pretend to be women online? For attention. People rush to flirt and hopefully win "her" attention. There's a reason for the "roll a female character in an MMO for free stuff" joke.

 

[Smeatza]

Dude, I was just posting some light comedy before I went to bed.
Now you've gone and got all serious and I have to reply back.

Men and women didn't get along before. Men were fine, they told women to be quiet and lie back and think of England.

Human beings have never really got along, I don't think anyone (especially Dave Chapelle) will tell you otherwise.

Dave seems to be reminiscing on his childhood when adult inter-gender iterations were idealised to children, and the differences between boys and girls were quite trivial. Historically men have gotten on TERRIBLY with women. Black men were able to vote in America before any woman of any race.

I hate to break it to you but inter-gender relations are still idealised to children. And the differences between boys and girls are quite trivial compared to the differences between men and women.

Chivalry comes from the days when women were treated as property. Violence against women was a crime against he father or husband, like how killing a slave was considered property damage rather than murder.

Chivalry literally refers to a knight's code of conduct in medieval times. "The Knight's Code of Chivalry was a moral system that stated all knights should protect others who can not protect themselves, such as widows, children, and elders."
In later years it was simply used as a word for good etiquette but it has never (until very recent years) been used exclusively in regards to females.
I don't know where you got this property idea from.

He's very true that men need women more than women need men. And once they are no longer subjugated and kept ill informed the men become superfluous. Look at a lion pack, the lionesses do everything to keep the pack alive from hunting to lookouts to caring for the young, what does the male lion do? Kills other lions. Even cubs. That's his role, to kill his own species. Lionesses are caught in an evolutionary trap, that they cannot escape from because they don't get to chose their male partners, the meanest lions kill the weaker lions and even all their cubs and forcibly impregnate the lionesses.

I really don't see how the behaviour of lions has any relevance here. In any case the purpose of a male lion is to mate and protect his pride. Killing other male lions is the means to that end. Just as is attacking any threats that might come too close.

The implied subtitle to "100 ways to please your man" is "... so you don't have to suck his dick". It could equally be titled "100 ways to easily placate your man". See Dave Chapelle has got it backwards by reading it literally, he thinks this is how to make him happy. This is just to stop him being a drain on the wife. But maybe that is the joke, but the joke is on the men.

"100 ways to please your man" is "... so you don't have to suck his dick" - Yeah that's taking his words out of context.
In any case I'm sure you can forgive him for taking a title literally when it's in a factual magazine that presents itself as a guide for modern women (as these magazines do).

Either that or you're saying that these types of magazine consist only of very subltle, very dry comedy that is parodying the very type of magazine that it is.
Which I doubt.

Here's a crazy thought, women like their breast for SOME OTHER REASON than to service men. Women appreciate the female form, especially their own female form.

Evolution wise breasts are for the purpose of feeding your children and attracting a mate. I wasn't under the impression that on average, women like their breasts anymore than your average man likes his junk. I don't think you can really generalise on all women's taste in aesthetics.

I like my hands, I think they are pretty cool, I don't want to hide them. That doesn't mean I want someone to hire me to do manual labour because I show that I have hands.

Which is pretty much the same point Chappelle makes later on in the video.

Women may be emotional, but men seem far more prevalent to assume their emotions are factual. As in "I got angry and punched him" is not following the fact, it may be RATIONALISED as having a logical reason for being violent but the decision was made before hand and it was an emotional one. Men just don't want to acknowledge their emotions when emotions are in fact our ultimate drive, without them we wouldn't do ANYTHING! We wouldn't ever eat because we'd never be afraid of dying from starvation.

The urge to eat when hungry is not an emotion. Hunger often causes a number of emotions but hunger itself is not one.
Besides from that all I see in this last paragraph is assumptions and generalisations.

 

[MelasZepheos_v1legacy]

A woman will log on and be insulted near constantly, ganged up on despite the official teams and threatened with rape and death and cancer.

Conjecture. We've already talked about this in the thread. The amount of harassment women receive gaming is so blown out of proportion that it's mind boggling. It's become accepted to simply claim women as a whole get "insulted near constantly," despite no one proving it. All we ever get is a couple of examples and some personal experience. Want personal experience? I've only ever seen one female friend be called a name--tranny. One. Ever. Number of men I've seen troll each other and be general assholes? Countless.

You know why men pretend to be women online? For attention. People rush to flirt and hopefully win "her" attention. There's a reason for the "roll a female character in an MMO for free stuff" joke.

Like I said, my own personal experience has been different. Most of my friends are female, a lot of them are gamers. I've never ever seen them log on and go a whole game without being insulted. Sometimes it reaches the point, as I said, where they pretty much have to leave to avoid earache. I say one game where for twenty straight minutes seven guys who had previously been insulting each other did nothing but insult the one woman who was playing. This is a very different situation from a group of guys all insulting each other equally.

 

[Gigano]

...damn, no wonder they never responded to peak-a-boo pick-up trick then.

OT: It's quite obvious that you can't expect anyone else to take your grievances seriously unless you take everyone else's grievances equally to heart. Ignore but a single one, and why wouldn't everyone who picked yours to ignore be as entitled to do so as you?

So yeah, it's either everything or nothing, otherwise your complaint that others should care about your particular group not getting better treatment lose all rationality and legitimacy.