Women's rights

[KirbyKrackle]

Historically women have opened shelters for women of their own initiative. Feminists are not stopping men from opening shelters, it's just that their hands are full trying to help female victims and many men refuse to believe that men can be abused, and so those men do not set up shelters on their own. So don't blame feminists for the lack of men's shelters, blame those sexist men. If guys wanted to set up shelters of their own (rather than try to claim space in women's shelters, which are already short on resources) the vast majority of feminists would be perfectly happy about that.

My concern is more to do with the federal funding. Across the western world womens shelters receive tax dollars. In the USA they are required BY LAW to admit men if they take those tax dollar. They don't, they can get away with this by marginalizing the issues of violence against men and exaggerating the issues of violence against women. By doing this they do disservice to everyone, yet maintain popular appeal. I would also like to point out that historically MEN HAVE HELPED AND FULLY SUPPORTED the opening of womans shelters both through personal contributions and tax dollars.
Men's shelters have had no such luck and require private donations, donations that are nearly impossible to campaign for particularly when you are fighting larger better funded organizations that try to paint men unilaterally as the abusers. In fact as I previously pointed out women who stand up and say that women can be violent often face death threats, again i recommend reading the later works of Erin Pizzey.

Seeing as conscription was abolished 36 years ago, what would be the point of that?

The draft is still very much alive and well if it is deemed necessary. For this reason there was a very large scare early on after 9/11 that the draft would be re-instated. George W Bush had to get up and publicly reassure people that this wouldn't be the case.

As you were very good about providing backing for your assertions earlier, I expect the same now, especially since what I'm dredging up on Google indicates that the funding goes to victims of domestic abuse, no gender mentioned, and at least one article mentions federal funding being expected by a men's shelter. It would seem, in that case, that WOMEN HAVE HELPED AND FULLY SUPPORTED the opening of men's shelters at least through tax dollars, one might assume personal contributions as well.

And tell me, should that men's shelter be forced to open its doors to women? Be stripped of its funding?

The fact that you set up men's and women's shelters as competing with each other is rather telling. And don't just say that women's shelters dismiss men's abuse and exaggerate women's abuse and then think you shouldn't have to prove that.

Oh, and it's a bit weird that you remain focused on organizations for women being the cause of men's problems and not the small circle of men you believe are in charge of and benefiting from patriarchal institutions.

 

[cbert]

I will continue to identify myself as a "feminist," despite the comments on preceding pages and the link to the fringe "eve bit first" blog on page one (apparently, I support rape. So do many women and most self-proclaimed feminists that I know; disheartening because this kind of rhetoric waters down the seriousness of rape).

My reasons are quite simple: society for the last few millennia has been largely patriarchal. As a result, I believe that we've sorely neglected the intellectual and creative contributions of a good half of our population, and should work to find out what we've been missing.

Feminist critiques of traditional male-dominated spheres (such as architecture, science, classical music and video games) are useful contributions to theoretical and practical discussion. These are more than simple polemics - they seek to unravel the "gendered" dimensions of these activities.

Leave the man-hating at the door - I don't have any tolerance for that kind of close-minded disposition, and neither do most feminists.

 

[Death God]

I have never met a feminist yet but women have a plenty of equality already. Keep in mind, I am not sexist. Most of my best friends are all females and I think women do get treated differently, if not not because of their own doings. With that said, here are my reasons for disliking feminist: A girl can play any sport in school including football but a guy can not play volley ball: Girls now have a higher population ratio and out-number males: Women get the most rights and leniency in a court of law and more often than not, keep the kids. When a woman wants an abortion, she gets one. No "if", "an"'s, or buts: And, last but not least, a judge would rather condemn a single father than a single mother.
No, I am not just saying this because of me being a "hateful"man but because I have seen all of these examples first-hand. I believe girls should be treated equal but people need to keep in mind that equal is everyone getting the same thing. No special treatment for anyone. Enough said.

 

[Scars Unseen]

I have never encountered this type of behavior, but I suspect that if a woman ever objected to me holding the door for her (which I do for men and women equally), I would simply apologize for being polite, walk through the door, and lock it behind me. Might make her think twice about protesting basic courtesy.

 

[dantoddd]

I have met several feminist in my life, and just like any other school of thought they run the gamut between mild, moderate & monstrous. Although, i've noticed that some feminist are simply feminists because they've been screwed over by men and simply hate guys.

 

[tavelkyosoba]

A woman's place is wherever she wants to be...but she'll be treated as an equal wherever she chooses.

Feminists have a problem with both accounts. They feel that a woman who wants to stay home and take care of her family is wasting her potential. And they demand preferential treatment, not just equality.

 

[Images]

Wow! I made it! I actually read my ass through all of this. I'm just glad that stupid sheep debate is over.

Alright first off, that CBS link made me physically ill, don't worry wasn't sick but my stomach turned and I couldn't watch the whole thing. HOW THE FUCK ARE THEY STILL ON AIR?! Seriously, over here in the UK, the highest paid presenter on television (Jonathan Ross) got fired for calling up a man with Russell Brand and saying Brand had slept with his granddaughter, which he had. That was dubious behaviour but THIS, this is just sickening. This was daytime TV? Holy fuck! I've never liked our UK alternative to shows like this, "Loose Women" for banging an anti-man drum a lil too hard but damn this gives me some perspective.

My contribution to this is simple. Hypocrisy and total confusion is the real problem. For example its okay for women to sit around comparing guys dick sizes but for guys to comment on breast sizes is sexist? Look, I have no problem with women comparing willies, is it crude? Yeah. But short of coming into the men's room with a tape measure, go forth and be happy with it. Just don't say we're doing anything wrong when we comment on a girl's guzungas. This goes on into other things. A girl stood on my foot a couple of years back with stilettos and banged into my tray of shots for a friend's birthday. She wasn't drunk, just not looking where she was going. I asked her if she was willing to pay for the shots she spilled. She said okay and gave me a few quid but her friend went MENTAL on me claiming that because she was a girl, I should quote "fuck off" and "be happy they didn't knock the rest of the drinks over". She said that girls don't have to buy replacement drinks. Ever. Her friends all nodded and babbled something about how I was being a typical chauvinist man (confusingly). I just sighed and walked off.

I also find blaming "lady time" hormones weak sauce. Not only because men aren't allowed to call women on it even if its true but also because its simply weak. Hormones are not an excuse to be a total ***** with carte blanche. If a guy is having a bad day or is quitting smoking I may give him extra leeway for being tense but frankly if he acts like a dick I'll call him on it. Periods are not a get out of jail free card.

My point is that I think a lot of overly aggressive women aren't intent on destroying us all or enslaving us. I believe they're just working out some form of balance between how they'd like to be treated (little princesses with knights to the rescue waiting on them) and how they want to be treated (independent strong survivors) and that those two philosophies don't quite work together. Wires cross here and there and lead to douchebag moments. There ARE total psycho women just like there are total psycho men. I just think thats not really the problem.

 

[Dark Knifer]

I KNEW IT, THIS THREAD HAS GONE TO HELL IN A HANDBASKET!

Then again, who didn't see that coming.

Oh well, I'm sure most rational people left the thread a long time ago.

I stayed to watch from a distance. Can I still be rational?

Also:
It was necessary. >.> Is that video going to be a topic for a debate now.

[sub] [sub]Oh god... What have I done...[/sub][/sub]

 

[Semudara]

I have never met a feminist yet but women have a plenty of equality already. Keep in mind, I am not sexist. Most of my best friends are all females and I think women do get treated differently, if not not because of their own doings. With that said, here are my reasons for disliking feminist: A girl can play any sport in school including football but a guy can not play volley ball: Girls now have a higher population ratio and out-number males: Women get the most rights and leniency in a court of law and more often than not, keep the kids. When a woman wants an abortion, she gets one. No "if", "an"'s, or buts: And, last but not least, a judge would rather condemn a single father than a single mother.
No, I am not just saying this because of me being a "hateful"man but because I have seen all of these examples first-hand. I believe girls should be treated equal but people need to keep in mind that equal is everyone getting the same thing. No special treatment for anyone. Enough said.

You believe in gender equality. That makes you a feminist.

Don't get me wrong, I think the name has become misleading. Now that men's rights are becoming just as important to fight for as women's rights, feminists need a new name. Something that doesn't sound stupid, either, like "equalist".

 

[OldRat]

It's really quite simple. There should be no women's rights. By which I mean that there shouldn't even be a need for a distinction between women and men in that sense. Equality in any sense, I mean. The day when we don't need such a term, and can simply discuss about human rights instead, will be a happy day indeed.
The door swings both ways, of course. I believe women should be treated equal to men (as does any sane person), but I also believe, like I do in most things, that there should be no special treatment of any kind. Equal standing, on the same line, in all things. Simple as that, to me.

However, the world being what it is, I'm not going to deny that the discussion is completely necessary and entirely valid. But some day, maybe, there will be complete equality. Or at least I hope so.

 

[b3nn3tt]

It's really quite simple. There should be no women's rights. By which I mean that there shouldn't even be a need for a distinction between women and men in that sense. Equality in any sense, I mean. The day when we don't need such a term, and can simply discuss about human rights instead, will be a happy day indeed.
The door swings both ways, of course. I believe women should be treated equal to men (as does any sane person), but I also believe, like I do in most things, that there should be no special treatment of any kind. Equal standing, on the same line, in all things. Simple as that, to me.

However, the world being what it is, I'm not going to deny that the discussion is completely necessary and entirely valid. But some day, maybe, there will be complete equality. Or at least I hope so.

See, this is exactly the kind of viewpoint that it would be nice if everyone had. I tried to make the same point several pages ago, but it got lost in the 'discussions' about what cartoon sheep represent.

I personally think that the first step towards this would be to do away with the terms feminist and masculist, as they are by their very natures exclusionary. I long for a time when people will stop trying to one-up each other with whether men or women have it worse and instead focus on fixing issues which affect people.

 

[DeleteThisAcc]

Before I start, I am a guy and also not in the least sexist but do you think the feminists of today have more of a bad reputation than they did a hundred years ago? I mean before women had a right to vote they worked through blood, sweat and tears to get equality and now you have some women who insult you for kindly opening the door for them. This has rarely happened to me but post opinions, experiences etc on feminism.

And next day same woman calls me a$$hole for not opening them same damn doors. (True story)

I am all for EQUAL RIGHTS but nowadays it's not equal rights, it's women going for easy world domination. There was idea to have some percent of our government woman (don't know if it is so somewhere but it filed here, for now) but that's illogical (lets say 50% of government MUST be women so if all best candidates are women we have 100% women GOOD government (best candidates were chosen), but if best candidates were men and that year women candidates were bad? We would have 50% bad government )

Anyway I am for equal rights but I rather see woman in kitchen than mining coal in some dangerous cave. But wait.. they don't go there, they want to go rule the world....

PS. MY GOD! LOOK AT SUSPEND RATE ON THIS TOPIC! And some of them did not deserve suspend.

 

[ACman]

Yes...... I think I'll check out his thread.....

Holy gender politics Batman! O_O. There's a legion of forum trolls in here!

I'm afraid so Boy Wonder. Normally I'd employ a gas or spray to neutralize such a menace but I'm afraid our only option may be retreat.


http://s3.amazonaws.com/kym-assets/photos/images/list/000/164/809/WhoopsNo.gif

 

[Pearwood]

Between "card carrying misandrists" who've been defending their moronic stance and the usual idiots who crawl out from dark corners whenever feminism is mentioned this thread is beyond all hope. I was hoping to make a decent post expressing my views but now it just seems so pointless.

 

[Vault Girl]

You'll find that a large number of girls (including myself) have a very weary point of view on the matter of feminism. :/

 

[Sparcrypt]

I ran into one of the 'all men support rape' women once. The conversation went like this;

Her: you support rape!
Me: No I don't
Her: Prove it then!
Me: I'd never rape anyone and think those who do so should have their balls sawed off with a rusty knife then left to bleed to death on the floor?
Her: I bet you watch porn
Me: So?
Her: So you support rape!
Me: How does watching two adults have consensual sex mean I support rape?
Her: ...

This actually went on for a good 10 minutes or so, everytime I shot an argument down she changed to another one until I finally told her to shut the hell up.

I mean hell.. if you're going to accuse someone of something, supporting rape is hardly the best choice. Unless someone has done it, tried to do it or actively said they support it there really isn't much of an argument there..

..


On another note, this thread is hilarious, there really are some amusing people on the internet.

 

[General Chase]

It's really quite simple. There should be no women's rights. By which I mean that there shouldn't even be a need for a distinction between women and men in that sense. Equality in any sense, I mean. The day when we don't need such a term, and can simply discuss about human rights instead, will be a happy day indeed.
The door swings both ways, of course. I believe women should be treated equal to men (as does any sane person), but I also believe, like I do in most things, that there should be no special treatment of any kind. Equal standing, on the same line, in all things. Simple as that, to me.

However, the world being what it is, I'm not going to deny that the discussion is completely necessary and entirely valid. But some day, maybe, there will be complete equality. Or at least I hope so.

Well said. I personally don't support any sort of political 'rights' group of today because b y and large most of them are not fighting for the things their earlier supporters fought for. But over all. I believe people of all races, sexes, and creeds should have an equal say and treatment in society. It's a shame even in todays age of 'progress' there's alot of backwards looking thinking.

 

[rawrmonsta]

I actually had a discussion about this with one of my friends who identified herself as feminist. And questioned why I dont. At the time I had no idea of the issues and asked her. Do you think men have it better than women these days? and she replied that men have it 1000x better. To which I was actually completely shocked to hear.

So it got me interested and I did some research into feminism and what it is. What it has done what its trying to do. and like any reasonable person I then looked for the counter argument. And after much reading Ive not seen a single argument feminism has brought up in this day and age that are really super unequal. The main arguments I saw thrown out there was...

The pay gap - which is a myth and has been reasonably proven false.

Rape cases - Which the laws modern feminism is pushing is making it easier to falsely accuse men of rape when there is already a ridiculous number of falsely convicted men in prison. Figure you could leave it as it is and take 3x less punishment on almost every other conviction and call it a day.

Now I'm completely open to the idea that there is a treasure trove of sited feminist research supporting whats going on but I'm yet to see it.

So when someone identifys themselves as "feminist" and then claims they support equal rights it honestly upsets me. Because the feminist movement that's going on right now isn't promoting equal rights its quite the opposite. Back when women were having their rights repressed feminism was good. Right now its a joke.

I would have no problem if feminism was actually identifying itself as what it is. a purely female based movement. I think it would get a lot less support if it were true to its actions.

If there is something I've missed here please by all means inform me. But from where I'm siting feminism has done nothing for men. and is getting support from sensible people who if they understood the facts wouldn't support it. And to me identifying as feminist today is supporting it.

 

[The Gnome King]

Before I start, I am a guy and also not in the least sexist but do you think the feminists of today have more of a bad reputation than they did a hundred years ago?

No. A hundred years ago they were ridiculed, insulted and considered to be deviants whose demand for basic rights went against everything a woman was supposed to be. If anything, the reputation of feminism has improved enormously.

Now that is a woman with clear issues.

Most of which have pretty clearly defined roots in the society we live in.

I wouldn't agree with her wording, but it takes a certain degree of reactionary denial to pretend there is nothing wrong with the prevalence of rape in our society and certain people's attitudes towards it.

Male on mae rape is perhaps just as large a problem in the US due to prison rape nobody does anything to stop.

I believe in equal rights for women but sometimes worry that in US culture girls are now valued more than boys and the pendulum swung too far the other way. More females than males graduate college now, especially in the black community, and I worry our school systems are set up to be too female-centric at the expense of our young men, who are still forced to sign up fr the draft where women are not- yet as they enjoy nearly equal rights in the armed forces I feel they should be forced to fill out a selective service card as young men must. In recent polls here more families say they want baby girls more than boys, I fear we are devaluing our sons now after decades of devaluing our daughters.