Women's rights

Recommended Videos

EclipseoftheDarkSun

New member
Sep 11, 2009
230
0
0
BloatedGuppy said:
Hagi said:
That people who don't understand what an idiom is completely derail a thread?
OH FFS.

You can't POSSIBLY be this dense.

Look at the picture. Look at it.

Look at the wolf. Look how the features of the wolf are clearly feminized. Look how the wolf is holding a MAN'S TESTICLES, DRIPPING BLOOD. Now look at the sheep. The PINK SHEEP, with docile, gentle features that are also clearly feminized.

Seriously, I hate this. I don't want to be pushed into a situation where I'd defending knee-jerk, hysterical over-reactions in the field of gender politics, because god knows we've got enough of that to go around and then some already. But you cannot POSSIBLY tell me that you're utterly blind to where someone might construe that picture as misogynist. It's fucking cartoonishly over the top. What would do it for you? Should she have a man's severed penis dangling from her teeth as well? At that point, would the picture no longer be too subtle for you to get where the problem is?

THIS is supposed to be a bold statement about misandry? I'm completely embarrassed on behalf of my gender, seriously.
Finally, you spell out what you two were dancing around. It would have saved the others a lot of confusion if you'd realised that it was entirely predictable that people would be blind to such subtext, given that we actually do live in a patriarchal society.
 

Chelsea O'shea

New member
May 20, 2010
159
0
0
Raika said:
Monxerot said:
I think the error is quite obvious in hating something because of its gender
Or am i just overthinking this?
You're underthinking it. Let me elaborate. I hate what society dictates men should be, i.e. loud, self-absorbed dipshits who exist to make sure everybody knows how big and horrifying their penises are. I like to believe modernity has done away with binary gender roles, but just because I believe something doesn't mean it's true. More men need to be like Haggar from Final Fight. That's a may-unn right thur.

ItsAChiaotzu said:
Your views differ from mine. Therefore, you are an idiot and a bad person.
There we go, I translated it into English. That's an act of public service right there.
actually,i'm a woman and i agree with him,you are pretty dumb for believing in female superiority,no one is better then anyone else,that is a fact. no denying it.
 

EclipseoftheDarkSun

New member
Sep 11, 2009
230
0
0
evilthecat said:
You have said the words 'good' and 'bad' yourself. You have elaborated on the meaning of the idiom yourself by talking about farming, now you want to pretend all that is meaningless? I understand the fucking idiom, I also understand that someone thought it would be persuasive to draw a picture of a placid faced pink sheep and a she-wolf holding a fucking scrotum. Why did they think that, because there is an established body of meaning to the idiom which can be referenced in its use.

Having a problem with the way that meaning is used does not mean I don't understand what an idiom is. Now grow up and stop accusing other people of not understanding something you clearly don't fully understand yourself.

I know you're not necessarily agreeing with me, but thank you, seriously..
Seems to me that it'd have been more helpful to educate people in the first place, spelling it out, since these sort of things tend to bypass the consciousness. I certainly wasn't thinking about the cartoon from that angle, though it's obvious in retrospect. Simply using arcane jargon like semiotic analysis gives the impression that you're happy to feel superior in your relative enlightenment than to share that enlightenment..
 

SpaceArcader

New member
Mar 2, 2011
295
0
0
Tselis said:
They aren't feminists, they don't want equality. They want a penis. I mean that literally. They want to be men, to be viewed as 'superior' in their mind, and they want men to suffer as they feel, in their own demented minds, as they have sufferred. They want to become the miserable bastards that the original feminists rebelled against, because those miserable bastards had power. The ironic thing is that most of them are too stupid to realize this. Being told what to do by a man, or being told what to do by a woman, it's still being led around by the nose. Everyone should be a humanist. We all need to realize that we're all humans and suck/rock to an equal degree.
I'm not sure where you're getting your information but officially most feminism is already about what you defined as "humanism" (freedom from discrimination based on things like sex, gender, religion, etc.)

Even Webster defines feminism as "the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes"

The few feminist figures who advocate female supremacy are marginal and are considered to be extremists.
 

SonOfVoorhees

New member
Aug 3, 2011
3,509
0
0
Treat woman as people. I open a door as its polite and someone is right behind me, not because they are female. Id open a door for a guy if he was behind me. If a woman wants to be a ***** about it then thats her issue....nothing to do with me thinking she cant open a door or not. I think these type of woman try to hard to be seen as equal and then get confused between common courtesy and sexism.
 

Dorian6

New member
Apr 3, 2009
711
0
0
let me see if I understand your question.

"I haven't seen or had it happen to me, but I've heard about how feminists are all mean and stuff. What do you think, internet?"

Am I close?
 

Tselis

New member
Jul 23, 2011
429
0
0
Nasrin said:
Tselis said:
They aren't feminists, they don't want equality. They want a penis. I mean that literally. They want to be men, to be viewed as 'superior' in their mind, and they want men to suffer as they feel, in their own demented minds, as they have sufferred. They want to become the miserable bastards that the original feminists rebelled against, because those miserable bastards had power. The ironic thing is that most of them are too stupid to realize this. Being told what to do by a man, or being told what to do by a woman, it's still being led around by the nose. Everyone should be a humanist. We all need to realize that we're all humans and suck/rock to an equal degree.
I'm not sure where you're getting your information but officially most feminism is already about what you defined as "humanism" (freedom from discrimination based on things like sex, gender, religion, etc.)

Even Webster defines feminism as "the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes"

The few feminist figures who advocate female supremacy are marginal and are considered to be extremists.
The feminists must be much nicer in your area than in mine.
 

BRex21

New member
Sep 24, 2010
582
0
0
BloatedGuppy said:
So no, I'm not comfortable with "argle bargle feminazi!" arguments, because a lot of what women and women's organizations have to say about violence against women is most probably 100% true. As you point out, violence against men is also an extremely serious problem, and perhaps I've been too quick to minimize it in my own mind. The existence of one does not preclude the existence of the other, and the fact some women gleefully engage in misandry doesn't make misogyny cute or appropriate, as some people in this thread seem to believe.

There was a thread in here a while back about some guy groping his unconscious female friend without her consent, which is legally sexual abuse and ethically abhorrent. Half the posters were of the "bah, big deal, he was drunk" variety, a few presumed she was probably into it, and at least one said she was a ***** who had probably lead him on for years and got what was coming to her. So casual misogyny? A real thing.
I read that thread, there was also people saying that it was legally rape, which it simply isn't, and a vast majority who agreed it was horrible. This is the difference between our arguments. The vast majority of people support the womans side of that argument, whereas talking about male abuse usually garners a much more hostile reaction and complete denial of fact and any sort of political progress has been slowed to a glacial pace. The escapist is actually quite open to this, many people point out that there are huge double standards between men and women, again a large body still laughs.

I provided a list of hundreds of studies showing how serious the issue is and how our current system ignores men, you're right but this in no way stops violence at the hands of men from being an issue, of course I never said that and neither did anyone else here. What I said was that womens groups, often acting as lobby groups, work to downplay the issue.
I googled "campus rape support male victims" the first college that has a support program for men is Stanford. But wait! http://www.stanford.edu/group/svab/male.shtml before it talks about ACTUAL resources for male victims, and again this is the male victims pace, it has a short blurb and links to tell men "don't support rape" there links to resources are dotted with bullshit like "empowers male youth and the institutions that serve them to work as allies with women in preventing rape and other forms of men's violence. Through awareness-to-action education and community organizing, we promote gender equity and build men's capacity to be strong without being violent." it has "Ten Things Men Can Do to Prevent Gender Violence" which is entirely based on the idea that men are violent and women are hapless victims. It does eventually admit that "Yes, men can be victimized." but only after walls of text essentially blaming the person, im going to presume here that the target audience is male victims, who is suffering the abuse. This isn't uncommon, i don't have anything against Stanford in particular, it just happened to be first on the list.
 

BRex21

New member
Sep 24, 2010
582
0
0
KirbyKrackle said:
Evidencebased said:
Historically women have opened shelters for women of their own initiative.
BRex21 said:
MEN HAVE HELPED AND FULLY SUPPORTED the opening of womans shelters both through personal contributions and tax dollars.
KirbyKrackle said:
hat WOMEN HAVE HELPED AND FULLY SUPPORTED the opening of men's shelters at least through tax dollars
Okay, first off i thought it was pretty obvious why I said that, I was not denying that women helped start mens shelters particularly since in the same post I brought up the founder of the Mankind initiative, who happens to be a woman, I recommended reading some of her works, obviously im not denying womens support in the mens rights movement. but Evidencebased was denying mens support in the womens rights movement.

KirbyKrackle said:
And tell me, should that men's shelter be forced to open its doors to women? Be stripped of its funding?
Ideally i think the two should remain separate, Domestic violence often has a reciprocal aspect and mixing the genders could potentially cause more problems. HOWEVER would you argue that if this was applied universally it wouldn't DRASTICALLY improve services for men?

KirbyKrackle said:
since what I'm dredging up on Google indicates that the funding goes to victims of domestic abuse
Erin Pizzey, the woman whose name i have been shouting throughout this thread has started two organizations to shelter victims of domestic abuse. Refuge and The ManKind initiative. Refuge houses women, when it was founded in 1971 it receved grants of £10,000 (according to her book Prone to violence). on the flipside ManKind is not elegable for public funds. Across the pond, as you said the funding goes to victims of domestic abuse. This is because shelters are required by law to use that money to house both men and women. Heres what I want you to do find ANY shelter in your state and check there website if they take men. or heck post em here and ill sift through there site.[/quote]

KirbyKrackle said:
The fact that you set up men's and women's shelters as competing with each other is rather telling. And don't just say that women's shelters dismiss men's abuse and exaggerate women's abuse and then think you shouldn't have to prove that.
First thing, google domestic violence. Now tell me how many things popped up with the heading Violence Against Women, this is a major problem with branding if Domestic violence is synonymous with violence against women, In the USA all measures to prevent domestic violence have been labled this way in The Violence Against Women Act, which only uses men as examples of batterers and women as examples of victims.
A little ways down I came across this page http://www.feminist.com/resources/ourbodies/viol_intro.html , Most of the information is blatantly untrue. For example, this site says that domestic violence is the leading cause of ER visits for women age 15-44. according to the USA CDC http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5017a4.htm car accidents beat violent crime altogether for women (647,396 compared to 1,736,193) now for fairness sake I want to point out that since it may be hard to tell what acts of violence are domestic at times i have included all acts of violence in the former statistic, whereas i only included occupants of automobiles in the second, so if someone was hit by a car while walking or on a bike or motorcycle they aren't included. Now im sure you can use the No True Scotsman argument on this, but these "facts" are repeated over and over and far too many people grow to believe them.
Do I have to prove that dollars are finite and that providing extra funding to one group often leads to cuts to another? Because i guess, Christina Sommers paper does that

KirbyKrackle said:
Should an organization devoted to raising money for prostate cancer research and awareness set aside a portion of that money for breast cancer?
No but they should have to at the very least treat cancers in there chosen field, how would you feel if a womens shelter started turning away anyone black? An organization that recieves taxpayer money cant discriminate like that. why is a mans life with breast cancer invariably not worth treating. There actions were obviously wrong and in fact illegal yet its still common practice.
KirbyKrackle said:
And why is it "especially" the fault of feminists and not, say, the privileged few men you say are in charge of the patriarchy and benefiting from it?
Because the few who are benefiting are simply passive while the feminists who shout things like "Domenstic violence harms more women than anything else in america" actively hurt the cause, they fight for things like the VAWA, Thats the Violence Against Women Act, that currently lables domestic violence in America as something a man does to a woman, it successfully eliminates due process in any allegations of abuse, physical or sexual on campus all in order to shore up the numbers of convictions.
Women can falsely inflate the rates of this for personal gain and yet I hear few objections by feminists http://davisvanguard.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=4413:beeman-gets-five-years-probation-in-embezzlement-case&catid=74:judicial-watch&Itemid=100. or hey, look up where that 1 in 4 statistic comes from, sure more than half the people. Hell its considered a major reason that rape centers cant get enough funding in lower income areas http://www.leaderu.com/real/ri9502/sommers.html.
I blame feminists for this because they harbour these extremists and often rally behind them.

If you feel that there should be more crisis centres for men, for example, you should found one, work for one, donate to one, not complain that the feminists aren't doing it for you.[/quote]
This may come as a shock to you but I do donate! I do volunteer! In fact i moderate some forums specifically for male victims (we don't exclude women by the way) Most of what i do is delete comments as to why male rape does not count. Its actually probably the reason i'm so testy about this.
I don't expect feminists to do these things for me, I expect them to stop spreading lies in order to further their agenda.
 

gazumped

New member
Dec 1, 2010
718
0
0
Yes, yes, I'm going to mention the cartoon because I'm an illustrator and found it really interesting because even though I'm sure the girl who drew it did just want to draw a pretty sheep and I like to give her the benefit of the doubt, the lack of thought behind making feminists so docile was just a bad move. On the comments on that image people were saying they'd rather be the wolf. Which suggests most people got a misandrist vibe from it rather than a misogynist one, though?

INTERESTING FACT that I wanted to mention because people were arguing about the connotations of pink...
originally it was PINK IS FOR BOYS, BLUE IS FOR GIRLS. Pink was supposed to be aggressive and powerful, as it's just a version of red. Blue was seen as more serene and docile, and linked to the Virgin Mary. The colours were switched over around the time of WW2, possibly because Nazi's labled 'sissy' homosexuals with the colour. Another theory is that because women had to do mens' jobs and the ball got rolling for feminism, they started wearing the male colour of pink, and so the colours got switched so that women couldn't use their claim over pink to assure equal footing with men.
http://static.colourlovers.com/uploads/2008/10/100-years-of-pink.gif
So pink is only now seen as soft and passive because people decided it's a woman's colour, linking it with women gave the colour that connotation because that was the view of women at the time, the colour was not picked to give women that connotation.

Well, I thought it was pretty interesting...

Shark Wrangler said:
Why should I care about womens rights when I am a guy? Have no interest in their suffering, or even how they make less than a guy. Even though you might find that cruel, most guy think it as well, just don't have the balls to say it.
A lot of racial majorities don't really care about racial equality, a lot of rich people don't really care about helping the poor, a lot of healthy people don't really care about the struggles of the disabled, most of them don't bother stating it, just let people who actually give a crap about others get on with it. :p

SenseOfTumour said:
As for the hitting, I was just brought up' you don't hit girls', I could change that rule if I was attacked, but only in self defence I believe.
Well, of course, but you also wouldn't hit a guy unless in self defence... I hope?
 

SenseOfTumour

New member
Jul 11, 2008
4,514
0
0
Personally no, but I think it's still more acceptable to lash out and punch a guy who's just being an extremely offensive asshole, whereas I think most guys would limit themselves to calling a woman out on her actions even if angered.

Also, you can grab a guy and bundle him out of a place, but do that to a woman who's decided she's going to cause the maximum amount of trouble and she can decide you put your hands on her in a sexual way. There's no reason a guy can't do the same thing, but I don't think it's taken as seriously.

In the same way that sexual abuse by women and domestic violence by women on men is not taken as seriously.

Thinking on those lines, maybe it is time for chivalry to be buried, even tho I firmly believe it's intent is a pure one, not one of keeping anyone down. Women seem to have gained the equal rights to be shitty to the opposite sex, and ,I stress I only mean in some areas, in some ways perhaps it's swung too far, in the way that it's fairly acceptable to make fun of men's intellect, sexual prowess, and other failures, whereas in the opposite direction it's seen as sexist abuse.

It's a highly complex issue however, and even simplifying it down to real basics, look at advertising, the man of the house is a borderline idiot, only able to function because his darling wife is there to wipe his butt and feed him, however, these ads are normally for household products and aimed at women, as women are seen as the cleaners of the home.

Managing to be sexist to everyone in one go, impressive stuff :)
 

Tselis

New member
Jul 23, 2011
429
0
0
BRex21 said:
KirbyKrackle said:
Evidencebased said:
Historically women have opened shelters for women of their own initiative.
BRex21 said:
MEN HAVE HELPED AND FULLY SUPPORTED the opening of womans shelters both through personal contributions and tax dollars.
KirbyKrackle said:
hat WOMEN HAVE HELPED AND FULLY SUPPORTED the opening of men's shelters at least through tax dollars
Okay, first off i thought it was pretty obvious why I said that, I was not denying that women helped start mens shelters particularly since in the same post I brought up the founder of the Mankind initiative, who happens to be a woman, I recommended reading some of her works, obviously im not denying womens support in the mens rights movement. but Evidencebased was denying mens support in the womens rights movement.

KirbyKrackle said:
And tell me, should that men's shelter be forced to open its doors to women? Be stripped of its funding?
Ideally i think the two should remain separate, Domestic violence often has a reciprocal aspect and mixing the genders could potentially cause more problems. HOWEVER would you argue that if this was applied universally it wouldn't DRASTICALLY improve services for men?

KirbyKrackle said:
since what I'm dredging up on Google indicates that the funding goes to victims of domestic abuse
Erin Pizzey, the woman whose name i have been shouting throughout this thread has started two organizations to shelter victims of domestic abuse. Refuge and The ManKind initiative. Refuge houses women, when it was founded in 1971 it receved grants of £10,000 (according to her book Prone to violence). on the flipside ManKind is not elegable for public funds. Across the pond, as you said the funding goes to victims of domestic abuse. This is because shelters are required by law to use that money to house both men and women. Heres what I want you to do find ANY shelter in your state and check there website if they take men. or heck post em here and ill sift through there site.
KirbyKrackle said:
The fact that you set up men's and women's shelters as competing with each other is rather telling. And don't just say that women's shelters dismiss men's abuse and exaggerate women's abuse and then think you shouldn't have to prove that.
First thing, google domestic violence. Now tell me how many things popped up with the heading Violence Against Women, this is a major problem with branding if Domestic violence is synonymous with violence against women, In the USA all measures to prevent domestic violence have been labled this way in The Violence Against Women Act, which only uses men as examples of batterers and women as examples of victims.
A little ways down I came across this page http://www.feminist.com/resources/ourbodies/viol_intro.html , Most of the information is blatantly untrue. For example, this site says that domestic violence is the leading cause of ER visits for women age 15-44. according to the USA CDC http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5017a4.htm car accidents beat violent crime altogether for women (647,396 compared to 1,736,193) now for fairness sake I want to point out that since it may be hard to tell what acts of violence are domestic at times i have included all acts of violence in the former statistic, whereas i only included occupants of automobiles in the second, so if someone was hit by a car while walking or on a bike or motorcycle they aren't included. Now im sure you can use the No True Scotsman argument on this, but these "facts" are repeated over and over and far too many people grow to believe them.
Do I have to prove that dollars are finite and that providing extra funding to one group often leads to cuts to another? Because i guess, Christina Sommers paper does that

KirbyKrackle said:
Should an organization devoted to raising money for prostate cancer research and awareness set aside a portion of that money for breast cancer?
No but they should have to at the very least treat cancers in there chosen field, how would you feel if a womens shelter started turning away anyone black? An organization that recieves taxpayer money cant discriminate like that. why is a mans life with breast cancer invariably not worth treating. There actions were obviously wrong and in fact illegal yet its still common practice.
KirbyKrackle said:
And why is it "especially" the fault of feminists and not, say, the privileged few men you say are in charge of the patriarchy and benefiting from it?
Because the few who are benefiting are simply passive while the feminists who shout things like "Domenstic violence harms more women than anything else in america" actively hurt the cause, they fight for things like the VAWA, Thats the Violence Against Women Act, that currently lables domestic violence in America as something a man does to a woman, it successfully eliminates due process in any allegations of abuse, physical or sexual on campus all in order to shore up the numbers of convictions.
Women can falsely inflate the rates of this for personal gain and yet I hear few objections by feminists http://davisvanguard.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=4413:beeman-gets-five-years-probation-in-embezzlement-case&catid=74:judicial-watch&Itemid=100. or hey, look up where that 1 in 4 statistic comes from, sure more than half the people. Hell its considered a major reason that rape centers cant get enough funding in lower income areas http://www.leaderu.com/real/ri9502/sommers.html.
I blame feminists for this because they harbour these extremists and often rally behind them.

If you feel that there should be more crisis centres for men, for example, you should found one, work for one, donate to one, not complain that the feminists aren't doing it for you.[/quote]
This may come as a shock to you but I do donate! I do volunteer! In fact i moderate some forums specifically for male victims (we don't exclude women by the way) Most of what i do is delete comments as to why male rape does not count. Its actually probably the reason i'm so testy about this.
I don't expect feminists to do these things for me, I expect them to stop spreading lies in order to further their agenda.[/quote]

BRex21 - my new hero.
 

Loner Jo Jo

New member
Jul 22, 2011
172
0
0
evilthecat said:
mechashiva77 said:
I'm confused. Are you saying that picture is misogynist?
Yeah, basically..

The "good (passive) woman"/"bad (aggressive) woman" dichotomy has plagued popular discussion about feminism since it's very inception. The image you've just used is a perfect example.

Beyond the fact that it's just basic neurotic rabbling.
Or it could simply be a reference to the "wolf in sheep's clothing" metaphor? Honestly, the sheep could be in reference to a man and the wolf a woman or vice versa and it would still make sense.
 

Jaime_Wolf

New member
Jul 17, 2009
1,194
0
0
First, I think a lot of people saying very reasonable, yet unpopular things get lumped into the group with "an axe to grind". And we're still a long way from reasoanble parity, so people should have an axe to grind. The whole "I don't mind feminists as long as they're not obnoxious and don't shove it in my face" bit is, more than anything else, a really unfortunate way of trying (knowingly or not) to hold back the people who are actually trying to make progress. It's like saying "I don't mind if you want to have a mixed-race marriage at home, but I don't want to see it and I don't want you to talk about it". If no one grinds any axes, nothing ever changes.

That said, there are certainly people who are, at least in my opinion, misguided about the aims of the equality movement and the means to achieve its goals.

The door thing is a good example of a situation much trickier than people suppose. On the one hand, I would feel awkward being called out for this, but that's because I hold doors open for everyone regardless of gender. It's just a nice thing to do. However, I think the people who hold doors open specifically for women and think they're being "chivalrous" are indeed a problem. I think that people read too much into the action itself, but there's very little you can offer in the way of argument against the fact that it's connected to a larger system that promotes a very unhealthy view of femininity. Additionally, I think it promotes a very unhealthy view of masculinity. Most of these things aren't just problems that affect women.
 

alandavidson

New member
Jun 21, 2010
961
0
0
Feminism is a pretty broad term these days. Generally, it now tends to refer to women who believe that all men are evil and need to be crushed, which was never the point of the women's rights movement.

Basically, we're all equal, but we're all different. There's nothing bad about that, nothing wrong with that, in fact, it's a very good thing that men and women are different down to the way that we think.

Maybe I see things too simply.
 

b3nn3tt

New member
May 11, 2010
673
0
0
lisadagz said:
Yes, yes, I'm going to mention the cartoon because I'm an illustrator and found it really interesting because even though I'm sure the girl who drew it did just want to draw a pretty sheep and I like to give her the benefit of the doubt, the lack of thought behind making feminists so docile was just a bad move. On the comments on that image people were saying they'd rather be the wolf. Which suggests most people got a misandrist vibe from it rather than a misogynist one, though?
I hate to dredge up the debate from the first few pages, but I really think you've read too much into the picture. As I see it, the only reason the feminist is a sheep is so that the artist could demonstrate 'a wolf in sheep's clothing', a well-known phrase to describe someone pretending to be something they're not. In this case, a misandrist pretending to be a feminist.

To reiterate: the cartoon is not suggesting that women should be sheep.
 

gazumped

New member
Dec 1, 2010
718
0
0
b3nn3tt said:
lisadagz said:
Yes, yes, I'm going to mention the cartoon because I'm an illustrator and found it really interesting because even though I'm sure the girl who drew it did just want to draw a pretty sheep and I like to give her the benefit of the doubt, the lack of thought behind making feminists so docile was just a bad move. On the comments on that image people were saying they'd rather be the wolf. Which suggests most people got a misandrist vibe from it rather than a misogynist one, though?
I hate to dredge up the debate from the first few pages, but I really think you've read too much into the picture. As I see it, the only reason the feminist is a sheep is so that the artist could demonstrate 'a wolf in sheep's clothing', a well-known phrase to describe someone pretending to be something they're not. In this case, a misandrist pretending to be a feminist.

To reiterate: the cartoon is not suggesting that women should be sheep.
No, yeah, I know. All I mean is that the way she drew it makes being the wolf look more appealing than being the sheep. :p

EDIT: What I mean is, I'm not reading into it at all, this was my very basic reaction to looking at it. And apparently that of those who commented on it as well.
 

b3nn3tt

New member
May 11, 2010
673
0
0
lisadagz said:
b3nn3tt said:
lisadagz said:
Yes, yes, I'm going to mention the cartoon because I'm an illustrator and found it really interesting because even though I'm sure the girl who drew it did just want to draw a pretty sheep and I like to give her the benefit of the doubt, the lack of thought behind making feminists so docile was just a bad move. On the comments on that image people were saying they'd rather be the wolf. Which suggests most people got a misandrist vibe from it rather than a misogynist one, though?
I hate to dredge up the debate from the first few pages, but I really think you've read too much into the picture. As I see it, the only reason the feminist is a sheep is so that the artist could demonstrate 'a wolf in sheep's clothing', a well-known phrase to describe someone pretending to be something they're not. In this case, a misandrist pretending to be a feminist.

To reiterate: the cartoon is not suggesting that women should be sheep.
No, yeah, I know. All I mean is that the way she drew it makes being the wolf look more appealing than being the sheep. :p
As in the wolf looks better, or people didn't want to be sheep? Or because they agreed more with what the wolf was saying?
 

gazumped

New member
Dec 1, 2010
718
0
0
b3nn3tt said:
lisadagz said:
b3nn3tt said:
lisadagz said:
Yes, yes, I'm going to mention the cartoon because I'm an illustrator and found it really interesting because even though I'm sure the girl who drew it did just want to draw a pretty sheep and I like to give her the benefit of the doubt, the lack of thought behind making feminists so docile was just a bad move. On the comments on that image people were saying they'd rather be the wolf. Which suggests most people got a misandrist vibe from it rather than a misogynist one, though?
I hate to dredge up the debate from the first few pages, but I really think you've read too much into the picture. As I see it, the only reason the feminist is a sheep is so that the artist could demonstrate 'a wolf in sheep's clothing', a well-known phrase to describe someone pretending to be something they're not. In this case, a misandrist pretending to be a feminist.

To reiterate: the cartoon is not suggesting that women should be sheep.
No, yeah, I know. All I mean is that the way she drew it makes being the wolf look more appealing than being the sheep. :p
As in the wolf looks better, or people didn't want to be sheep? Or because they agreed more with what the wolf was saying?
Because the sheep looks dopey and pathetic and the wolf looks evil but at least like it's not going to get pushed around. If the illustrator had attempted to make the sheep not a summary of every cutesy girly cliche people would be able to sympathise/empathise more with its position as the feminist that's getting a bad name.
I mean, it's very cute, but a lot of feminists (even proper ones that wouldn't approve of the wolf's views) would prefer not to be represented as kinda stoopid lookin'. :p