KirbyKrackle said:
Evidencebased said:
Historically women have opened shelters for women of their own initiative.
BRex21 said:
MEN HAVE HELPED AND FULLY SUPPORTED the opening of womans shelters both through personal contributions and tax dollars.
KirbyKrackle said:
hat WOMEN HAVE HELPED AND FULLY SUPPORTED the opening of men's shelters at least through tax dollars
Okay, first off i thought it was pretty obvious why I said that, I was not denying that women helped start mens shelters particularly since in the same post I brought up the founder of the Mankind initiative, who happens to be a woman, I recommended reading some of her works, obviously im not denying womens support in the mens rights movement. but Evidencebased was denying mens support in the womens rights movement.
KirbyKrackle said:
And tell me, should that men's shelter be forced to open its doors to women? Be stripped of its funding?
Ideally i think the two should remain separate, Domestic violence often has a reciprocal aspect and mixing the genders could potentially cause more problems. HOWEVER would you argue that if this was applied universally it wouldn't DRASTICALLY improve services for men?
KirbyKrackle said:
since what I'm dredging up on Google indicates that the funding goes to victims of domestic abuse
Erin Pizzey, the woman whose name i have been shouting throughout this thread has started two organizations to shelter victims of domestic abuse. Refuge and The ManKind initiative. Refuge houses women, when it was founded in 1971 it receved grants of £10,000 (according to her book Prone to violence). on the flipside ManKind is not elegable for public funds. Across the pond, as you said the funding goes to victims of domestic abuse. This is because shelters are required by law to use that money to house both men and women. Heres what I want you to do find ANY shelter in your state and check there website if they take men. or heck post em here and ill sift through there site.[/quote]
KirbyKrackle said:
The fact that you set up men's and women's shelters as competing with each other is rather telling. And don't just say that women's shelters dismiss men's abuse and exaggerate women's abuse and then think you shouldn't have to prove that.
First thing, google domestic violence. Now tell me how many things popped up with the heading Violence Against Women, this is a major problem with branding if Domestic violence is synonymous with violence against women, In the USA all measures to prevent domestic violence have been labled this way in The Violence Against Women Act, which only uses men as examples of batterers and women as examples of victims.
A little ways down I came across this page http://www.feminist.com/resources/ourbodies/viol_intro.html , Most of the information is blatantly untrue. For example, this site says that domestic violence is the leading cause of ER visits for women age 15-44. according to the USA CDC http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5017a4.htm car accidents beat violent crime altogether for women (647,396 compared to 1,736,193) now for fairness sake I want to point out that since it may be hard to tell what acts of violence are domestic at times i have included all acts of violence in the former statistic, whereas i only included occupants of automobiles in the second, so if someone was hit by a car while walking or on a bike or motorcycle they aren't included. Now im sure you can use the No True Scotsman argument on this, but these "facts" are repeated over and over and far too many people grow to believe them.
Do I have to prove that dollars are finite and that providing extra funding to one group often leads to cuts to another? Because i guess, Christina Sommers paper does that
KirbyKrackle said:
Should an organization devoted to raising money for prostate cancer research and awareness set aside a portion of that money for breast cancer?
No but they should have to at the very least treat cancers in there chosen field, how would you feel if a womens shelter started turning away anyone black? An organization that recieves taxpayer money cant discriminate like that. why is a mans life with breast cancer invariably not worth treating. There actions were obviously wrong and in fact illegal yet its still common practice.
KirbyKrackle said:
And why is it "especially" the fault of feminists and not, say, the privileged few men you say are in charge of the patriarchy and benefiting from it?
Because the few who are benefiting are simply passive while the feminists who shout things like "Domenstic violence harms more women than anything else in america" actively hurt the cause, they fight for things like the VAWA, Thats the Violence Against Women Act, that currently lables domestic violence in America as something a man does to a woman, it successfully eliminates due process in any allegations of abuse, physical or sexual on campus all in order to shore up the numbers of convictions.
Women can falsely inflate the rates of this for personal gain and yet I hear few objections by feminists http://davisvanguard.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=4413:beeman-gets-five-years-probation-in-embezzlement-case&catid=74:judicial-watch&Itemid=100. or hey, look up where that 1 in 4 statistic comes from, sure more than half the people. Hell its considered a major reason that rape centers cant get enough funding in lower income areas http://www.leaderu.com/real/ri9502/sommers.html.
I blame feminists for this because they harbour these extremists and often rally behind them.
If you feel that there should be more crisis centres for men, for example, you should found one, work for one, donate to one, not complain that the feminists aren't doing it for you.[/quote]
This may come as a shock to you but I do donate! I do volunteer! In fact i moderate some forums specifically for male victims (we don't exclude women by the way) Most of what i do is delete comments as to why male rape does not count. Its actually probably the reason i'm so testy about this.
I don't expect feminists to do these things for me, I expect them to stop spreading lies in order to further their agenda.