World Cup 2010

[The Diabolical Biz]

*snip*

Ok, now lets clear something up here. I am not on the World Cup Bandwagon. I, in fact, watch the Premiership (I'm English) every week, and have done for years, so maybe I might just know a tiny bit of what I'm talking about, eh?

If you want to go that route to defend your position, fine... I can do that too.
I have watched and played soccer for most of my life... That is about 30 years. Therefore, I know a lot more of what I'm talking about, eh?

I guess that means I win.

I'm sorry, was I talking to you? I...don't think so.

And I think you're missing the point here, kinda epically. The point is that he got a red cad because...he cheated. Plain and simple. Also, comparing this to other tournaments, the premiership for example, doesn't quite cut it, because the premiership is a league, and this is a tournament - losing isn't a temporary setback, it knocks you out. I think I understand what you're not getting here, and it's that - if it's against the laws of the game, it's cheating. In fact, that's the very definition of the word cheating.

 

[The Diabolical Biz]

Dude, how much football do you watch? And I said "For a long time", not "not ever". You know, it was also in the last minute of extra time? That makes even worse in my opinion. I think what you can't quite grasp, is that just because it's common practice doesn't mean it's not cheating. For example if a lot of runners suddenly decided to take steroids, and all of them ran really fast and stopped a runner who hadn't taken steroids from winning a race, just because it was common practice would it not be cheating? Because that's what you're saying.

To answer you first question, a lot and I used to watch even more.
Also, it doesn't matter whether it's the last minute or not. Just a heads up, rules are the same no matter what minute of the match it is.
Lastly, your example with runners is invalid. In athletics, the punishment for steroids is a suspension. In soccer, the penalty for stopping a certain goal with your hands is a penalty and a red card.
Suarez intentionally broke the rules and knew he would get penalized. People on steroids try to avoid punishment.
Let's repeat that again - Suarez KNEW he would get penalized and didn't try to stop the rules from taking effect. This is the main difference between this and your example, and between this and diving, a great ammount of which Ghana showed in that quarterfinal.
In other words, Suarez is not a cheat. And Uruguay deserved to get into the semifinal.

You're missing the point of the analogy, which is just because it's common practice doesn't make it ok. And trying to say that he knew he would've got a red card, whilst it may be true, doesn't make it ok. The point is that, as you said, he did what he had to to prevent a goal. Unfortunately, in that circumstance of, y'know, him not being a goalkeeper and all, that was cheating.

 

[FinalHeart95]

Dude, how much football do you watch? And I said "For a long time", not "not ever". You know, it was also in the last minute of extra time? That makes even worse in my opinion. I think what you can't quite grasp, is that just because it's common practice doesn't mean it's not cheating. For example if a lot of runners suddenly decided to take steroids, and all of them ran really fast and stopped a runner who hadn't taken steroids from winning a race, just because it was common practice would it not be cheating? Because that's what you're saying.

To answer you first question, a lot and I used to watch even more.
Also, it doesn't matter whether it's the last minute or not. Just a heads up, rules are the same no matter what minute of the match it is.
Lastly, your example with runners is invalid. In athletics, the punishment for steroids is a suspension. In soccer, the penalty for stopping a certain goal with your hands is a penalty and a red card.
Suarez intentionally broke the rules and knew he would get penalized. People on steroids try to avoid punishment.
Let's repeat that again - Suarez KNEW he would get penalized and didn't try to stop the rules from taking effect. This is the main difference between this and your example, and between this and diving, a great ammount of which Ghana showed in that quarterfinal.
In other words, Suarez is not a cheat. And Uruguay deserved to get into the semifinal.

You're missing the point of the analogy, which is just because it's common practice doesn't make it ok. And trying to say that he knew he would've got a red card, whilst it may be true, doesn't make it ok. The point is that, as you said, he did what he had to to prevent a goal. Unfortunately, in that circumstance of, y'know, him not being a goalkeeper and all, that was cheating.

Exactly, it was cheating. And he got the appropriate punishment of a red card and penalty kick. Ghana has no one to blame except for themselves for losing. Let's face it, if Ghana scored on that PK, no one would be claiming the guy was cheating.

 

[The Diabolical Biz]

Dude, how much football do you watch? And I said "For a long time", not "not ever". You know, it was also in the last minute of extra time? That makes even worse in my opinion. I think what you can't quite grasp, is that just because it's common practice doesn't mean it's not cheating. For example if a lot of runners suddenly decided to take steroids, and all of them ran really fast and stopped a runner who hadn't taken steroids from winning a race, just because it was common practice would it not be cheating? Because that's what you're saying.

To answer you first question, a lot and I used to watch even more.
Also, it doesn't matter whether it's the last minute or not. Just a heads up, rules are the same no matter what minute of the match it is.
Lastly, your example with runners is invalid. In athletics, the punishment for steroids is a suspension. In soccer, the penalty for stopping a certain goal with your hands is a penalty and a red card.
Suarez intentionally broke the rules and knew he would get penalized. People on steroids try to avoid punishment.
Let's repeat that again - Suarez KNEW he would get penalized and didn't try to stop the rules from taking effect. This is the main difference between this and your example, and between this and diving, a great ammount of which Ghana showed in that quarterfinal.
In other words, Suarez is not a cheat. And Uruguay deserved to get into the semifinal.

You're missing the point of the analogy, which is just because it's common practice doesn't make it ok. And trying to say that he knew he would've got a red card, whilst it may be true, doesn't make it ok. The point is that, as you said, he did what he had to to prevent a goal. Unfortunately, in that circumstance of, y'know, him not being a goalkeeper and all, that was cheating.

Exactly, it was cheating. And he got the appropriate punishment of a red card and penalty kick. Ghana has no one to blame except for themselves for losing. Let's face it, if Ghana scored on that PK, no one would be claiming the guy was cheating.

For a start, the argument against me was that was somehow not cheating, but I digress. I just wanna say though, that if Suarez hadn't cheated, it would have been a certain goal. That was basically my point, that if he hadn't, as you so correctly said, cheated, then Ghana would have been in the Semi Finals, no?

 

[hermes]

*snip*

Ok, now lets clear something up here. I am not on the World Cup Bandwagon. I, in fact, watch the Premiership (I'm English) every week, and have done for years, so maybe I might just know a tiny bit of what I'm talking about, eh?

If you want to go that route to defend your position, fine... I can do that too.
I have watched and played soccer for most of my life... That is about 30 years. Therefore, I know a lot more of what I'm talking about, eh?
I guess that means I win.

I'm sorry, was I talking to you? I...don't think so.
And I think you're missing the point here, kinda epically. The point is that he got a red cad because...he cheated. Plain and simple. Also, comparing this to other tournaments, the premiership for example, doesn't quite cut it, because the premiership is a league, and this is a tournament - losing isn't a temporary setback, it knocks you out.

I think you might need to recheck some of your definitons. For example, take the word "forum", which implies you make a comment as in a public conversation, and therefore anyone is entitled to answer. If that is too much for you, maybe you should try other tools, like private messages or something. And, since you are there, check the difference of foul and cheat.
To touch the ball with your hands its a foul. To touch it inside the small area, its still a foul. To touch it in the last minute, its still a foul. No one said that Suarez move was valid or the ruling was unfair, yet intentionally commiting a foul is not the same as cheating. Your analogy to steroids fails because atlethes that uses steroids do it to get an unfair advantage, advantage that would be lost, and penalized, if they are discovered.

if it's against the laws of the game, it's cheating. In fact, that's the very definition of the word cheating.

No. That is the definition of the word "foul".
- Foul: an act that violates the rules of a sport.
- Cheat: engage in deceitful behavior; practice trickery or fraud.

 

[The Diabolical Biz]

*snip*

Ok, now lets clear something up here. I am not on the World Cup Bandwagon. I, in fact, watch the Premiership (I'm English) every week, and have done for years, so maybe I might just know a tiny bit of what I'm talking about, eh?

If you want to go that route to defend your position, fine... I can do that too.
I have watched and played soccer for most of my life... That is about 30 years. Therefore, I know a lot more of what I'm talking about, eh?
I guess that means I win.

I'm sorry, was I talking to you? I...don't think so.
And I think you're missing the point here, kinda epically. The point is that he got a red cad because...he cheated. Plain and simple. Also, comparing this to other tournaments, the premiership for example, doesn't quite cut it, because the premiership is a league, and this is a tournament - losing isn't a temporary setback, it knocks you out.

I think you might need to recheck some of your definitons. For example, take the word "forum", which implies you make a comment as in a public conversation, and therefore anyone is entitled to answer. If that is too much for you, maybe you should try other tools, like private messages or something. And, since you are there, check the difference of foul and cheat.
To touch the ball with your hands its a foul. To touch it inside the small area, its still a foul. To touch it in the last minute, its still a foul. No one said that Suarez move was valid or the ruling was unfair, yet intentionally commiting a foul is not the same as cheating. Your analogy to steroids fails because atlethes that uses steroids do it to get an unfair advantage, advantage that would be lost, and penalized, if they are discovered.

if it's against the laws of the game, it's cheating. In fact, that's the very definition of the word cheating.

No. That is the definition of the word "foul".
- Foul: an act that violates the rules of a sport.
- Cheat: engage in deceitful behavior; practice trickery or fraud.

No no, my point wasn't that you shouldn't have engaged in the conversation, more that, y'know, I wasn't exactly implying that no one here knows about football, because you do. No, that was personal because the user in question questioned how much I knew about the games, and that was my answer. I was saying that in that exchange, in no way were you involved, were you?

On to your main point, I call in this: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/cheat

Look at the second group, number two. I'll paste it here:

Cheat: To violate rules deliberately, as in a game

Exactly.

 

[MiracleOfSound]

Who's psyched?

I love the World Cup, have since I was a little fella watching Gascoine, Schillichi, Maradona and Cascarino...

I'm hoping for a win from Spain or Holland, I enjoy both those teams. I also hope France get knocked out early and Thierri Henri gets booed off the pitch (apologies French Escapists... Irish man here, I still love your country)

So who are the Escapists rooting for?

Feel free to discuss the various games on this thread.

Who do you want to win? Who do you want to make an early exit?

Will the South African team do well? And will thier fans ever stop blowing those feckin' horns?

I guess your wish came true. Congrats!

Yep!

Everything I wanted came true. I like both the teams in the final so I'll be happy whichever of them win. Dunno which to root for though!

 

[MiracleOfSound]

No. That is the definition of the word "foul".
- Foul: an act that violates the rules of a sport.
- Cheat: engage in deceitful behavior; practice trickery or fraud.

They are not mutually exclusive, those two.

Just ask Thierri Henri or Ronaldo.

 

[FinalHeart95]

Dude, how much football do you watch? And I said "For a long time", not "not ever". You know, it was also in the last minute of extra time? That makes even worse in my opinion. I think what you can't quite grasp, is that just because it's common practice doesn't mean it's not cheating. For example if a lot of runners suddenly decided to take steroids, and all of them ran really fast and stopped a runner who hadn't taken steroids from winning a race, just because it was common practice would it not be cheating? Because that's what you're saying.

To answer you first question, a lot and I used to watch even more.
Also, it doesn't matter whether it's the last minute or not. Just a heads up, rules are the same no matter what minute of the match it is.
Lastly, your example with runners is invalid. In athletics, the punishment for steroids is a suspension. In soccer, the penalty for stopping a certain goal with your hands is a penalty and a red card.
Suarez intentionally broke the rules and knew he would get penalized. People on steroids try to avoid punishment.
Let's repeat that again - Suarez KNEW he would get penalized and didn't try to stop the rules from taking effect. This is the main difference between this and your example, and between this and diving, a great ammount of which Ghana showed in that quarterfinal.
In other words, Suarez is not a cheat. And Uruguay deserved to get into the semifinal.

You're missing the point of the analogy, which is just because it's common practice doesn't make it ok. And trying to say that he knew he would've got a red card, whilst it may be true, doesn't make it ok. The point is that, as you said, he did what he had to to prevent a goal. Unfortunately, in that circumstance of, y'know, him not being a goalkeeper and all, that was cheating.

Exactly, it was cheating. And he got the appropriate punishment of a red card and penalty kick. Ghana has no one to blame except for themselves for losing. Let's face it, if Ghana scored on that PK, no one would be claiming the guy was cheating.

For a start, the argument against me was that was somehow not cheating, but I digress. I just wanna say though, that if Suarez hadn't cheated, it would have been a certain goal. That was basically my point, that if he hadn't, as you so correctly said, cheated, then Ghana would have been in the Semi Finals, no?

It should've been a certain goal anyway. It was a penalty kick, and basically 8 times out of 10 those go in. If it has been at any other time of the game, Uruguay would've been a man down and at a HUGE disadvantage. The fact that the shooter basically MISSED THE NET doesn't exactly help.

As for whether or not it was cheating... it was breaking the rules. Generally I think it's cheating if the person gets away with it, which he did in a sense as Uruguay won. He still got penalized though.

 

[CK76]

Curse you Octopus!

Onto Sunday and hup Holland!

 

[JourneyThroughHell]

Dude, how much football do you watch? And I said "For a long time", not "not ever". You know, it was also in the last minute of extra time? That makes even worse in my opinion. I think what you can't quite grasp, is that just because it's common practice doesn't mean it's not cheating. For example if a lot of runners suddenly decided to take steroids, and all of them ran really fast and stopped a runner who hadn't taken steroids from winning a race, just because it was common practice would it not be cheating? Because that's what you're saying.

To answer you first question, a lot and I used to watch even more.
Also, it doesn't matter whether it's the last minute or not. Just a heads up, rules are the same no matter what minute of the match it is.
Lastly, your example with runners is invalid. In athletics, the punishment for steroids is a suspension. In soccer, the penalty for stopping a certain goal with your hands is a penalty and a red card.
Suarez intentionally broke the rules and knew he would get penalized. People on steroids try to avoid punishment.
Let's repeat that again - Suarez KNEW he would get penalized and didn't try to stop the rules from taking effect. This is the main difference between this and your example, and between this and diving, a great ammount of which Ghana showed in that quarterfinal.
In other words, Suarez is not a cheat. And Uruguay deserved to get into the semifinal.

You're missing the point of the analogy, which is just because it's common practice doesn't make it ok. And trying to say that he knew he would've got a red card, whilst it may be true, doesn't make it ok. The point is that, as you said, he did what he had to to prevent a goal. Unfortunately, in that circumstance of, y'know, him not being a goalkeeper and all, that was cheating.

Is every foul that is made on the field cheating? I just have to ask you to see what you mean by those words.
Also, the fact that he didn't evade the red card, didn't hurt any players and didn't argue with the referees totally makes it okay.
What isn't okay is that that freekick that started that all didn't exist.

 

[Spinozaad]

To my fellow Germans,

Now you know how it feels to play the best football of the tournament, but fail to win any prizes that actually matter. I'm not saying this to rub it in, because Germany has won before, where the Netherlands has never won the WC. But, now you know why Oranje plays the football we now play.

Yours sincerely,

I.

 

[The Diabolical Biz]

Dude, how much football do you watch? And I said "For a long time", not "not ever". You know, it was also in the last minute of extra time? That makes even worse in my opinion. I think what you can't quite grasp, is that just because it's common practice doesn't mean it's not cheating. For example if a lot of runners suddenly decided to take steroids, and all of them ran really fast and stopped a runner who hadn't taken steroids from winning a race, just because it was common practice would it not be cheating? Because that's what you're saying.

To answer you first question, a lot and I used to watch even more.
Also, it doesn't matter whether it's the last minute or not. Just a heads up, rules are the same no matter what minute of the match it is.
Lastly, your example with runners is invalid. In athletics, the punishment for steroids is a suspension. In soccer, the penalty for stopping a certain goal with your hands is a penalty and a red card.
Suarez intentionally broke the rules and knew he would get penalized. People on steroids try to avoid punishment.
Let's repeat that again - Suarez KNEW he would get penalized and didn't try to stop the rules from taking effect. This is the main difference between this and your example, and between this and diving, a great ammount of which Ghana showed in that quarterfinal.
In other words, Suarez is not a cheat. And Uruguay deserved to get into the semifinal.

You're missing the point of the analogy, which is just because it's common practice doesn't make it ok. And trying to say that he knew he would've got a red card, whilst it may be true, doesn't make it ok. The point is that, as you said, he did what he had to to prevent a goal. Unfortunately, in that circumstance of, y'know, him not being a goalkeeper and all, that was cheating.

Exactly, it was cheating. And he got the appropriate punishment of a red card and penalty kick. Ghana has no one to blame except for themselves for losing. Let's face it, if Ghana scored on that PK, no one would be claiming the guy was cheating.

For a start, the argument against me was that was somehow not cheating, but I digress. I just wanna say though, that if Suarez hadn't cheated, it would have been a certain goal. That was basically my point, that if he hadn't, as you so correctly said, cheated, then Ghana would have been in the Semi Finals, no?

It should've been a certain goal anyway. It was a penalty kick, and basically 8 times out of 10 those go in. If it has been at any other time of the game, Uruguay would've been a man down and at a HUGE disadvantage. The fact that the shooter basically MISSED THE NET doesn't exactly help.

As for whether or not it was cheating... it was breaking the rules. Generally I think it's cheating if the person gets away with it, which he did in a sense as Uruguay won. He still got penalized though.

Then you basically agree with me. Thank You! That's what I've been saying this whole time.

 

[Spinozaad]

A loose translation of 'Your majesty' [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beatrix_of_the_Netherlands] by Guus Meeuwis and Youp van 't Hek:

Your majesty, your majesty, do you have some time next week?
'Cause you'll have to reward some boys.
Your majesty, your majesty, do you have some time next week?
Because they'll come and show you the cup.

And we'll break it to you, Suarez;
Tomorrow your job will be done. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_FIFA_World_Cup_knockout_stage#Uruguay_vs_Netherlands]
And then Germany or Spain.
And after that: the world will be Oranje!
Your majesty, your majesty, do you have some time next week?
For the people are dreaming in warm summer nights.
Your majesty, your majesty, just for emphasis:
We want a tour through the canals. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVvG-jfrTG4]

Give the celebrations some added flavour; this time [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euro_1988], give all of them a medal.
The fountain in the palace's garden will spew champagne, a world owned by Oranje.
Your majesty, your majesty, it was no easy struggle.
The victories, boring and too German.
Your majesty, your majesty, stop that whining.
Only just the quarter finals, Oranje just got started!

Burning tears were cried by those slightly overconfident Brazilians. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fEP05UX908&feature=related]
Beatrix, enjoy and relax. For the entire world will become orange.

Your majesty, your majesty, just for emphasis.
We are aware that we'll have to win two times more.
Your majesty, your majesty, just you watch. It's a fact.
We have that cup in the pocket.

And you can show your gratitude, by putting on a Bavaria-dress. [http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=6&click_id=2871&art_id=vn20100615044444433C406692]
Do this, and the people will love you. Like our boys from Oranje.

Your majesty, your majesty. Do it to be sure.
Or else the papers will say.
Your majesty, your majesty, then you'll be out of your job.

And our new queen will then be called... Yolanthe... [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yolanthe_Cabau_van_Kasbergen]​

 

[Jack_Uzi]

Hey Spinozaad! We aren't there yet! Won't say it isn't possible, but don't be too confident.
Oh btw: long live the Republic!!

 

[Spinozaad]

Hey Spinozaad! We aren't there yet! Won't say it isn't possible, but don't be too confident.
Oh btw: long live the Republic!!

We're in the bloody finals. Now we have to be confident, because, well, why not? And that song is just bloody brilliant, heh.

Especially since they're lovingly making fun of the monarchy.

 

[GundamSentinel]

Hey Spinozaad! We aren't there yet! Won't say it isn't possible, but don't be too confident.
Oh btw: long live the Republic!!

We're in the bloody finals. Now we have to be confident, because, well, why not? And that song is just bloody brilliant, heh.

Especially since they're lovingly making fun of the monarchy.

Personally, I have every faith in our countrymen. That cup will finally be ours!

 

[Tekkawarrior]

England - > Germany - > Holland

Cummon Holland, don't make this a triforce of losing.

 

[Jack_Uzi]

Hey Spinozaad! We aren't there yet! Won't say it isn't possible, but don't be too confident.
Oh btw: long live the Republic!!

We're in the bloody finals. Now we have to be confident, because, well, why not? And that song is just bloody brilliant, heh.

Especially since they're lovingly making fun of the monarchy.

Personally, I have every faith in our countrymen. That cup will finally be ours!

It would be nice to see them win. Most of it I hope so because I think we really need something that unites us at this moment in time.

 

[Spinozaad]

Us Dutchies should make a pact.

If we win, we will have to keep this thread going for another four years. As a somewhat lasting monument to Dutch football glory!