Would you want a Katana?

[Ramare]

Meh. Sure, I'd want a katana, given it was free, since it's a weapon. But if I was going to buy a weapon, I'd rather save up and shell out for a civilian USP then a sword. But if I did buy a sword, I'd rather have a short sword. I personally don't like big swords, I like smaller bladed weapons, hence liking short swords, as they are typically lighter, smaller, easier to handle, easier to correct if you miss/they dodge in the middle of a swing, and the recoil from hitting bone would probably be less dangerous. I say all of this from assumption, since I know less than nothing about swords, but you cannot say that short swords aren't lighter, smaller, and easier to handle. That is a given, since they ARE smaller, hence them being *short* swords, and since they have less mass, the laws of physics hint that they would probably be easier to work with. If I did, however, want to buy a sword, and wanted to buy an Eastern sword, I'd rather go with a kodachi, preferably one with a straight edge, and no serrations, as they are (from what I've seen) smaller, lighter, and much more versatile of a weapon than katanas. Besides, straight edges are better for stabbing, and stabbing be's what I'd do to people if I was in a sword fight. I never really liked hacking off limbs like with large swords, in my opinion stabbing their vital organs, or cutting important bits of them (like their throat, for example) is better. Again, read this knowing that it is all reasoning and speculation, I've never actually held a sword for more than a minute, and I have never swung one. Also note that if I did buy a gun, it would likely not be a USP, since the .45 caliber is probably a bit large for a novice shooter, I just always liked the USP. It just looks awesome, in my opinion. Which is why I'm saddened that most games put that big ol' LAM box on it, since it, in my opinion, ruins the look of the gun. Why go off topic like that? I have no idea. I think I might have ADD.

 

[jamesworkshop]

More practical against a trained, armored knight you mean. Also, the katana could split a steel helmet in half.

That is wrong.
A katana could not split a decent european 14-15th century helmet in half.
Nor could it cut the advanced plate armour of the high medieval age.


@Jamesworkshop

The fact remains that the katana was especially likely to bend when hitting hard surfaces and objects, due to what give them their special, curved shape.

Of course every sword receives nicks over time, especially when using the edge to deflect blows.

But japanese forge materials were inferior to european ones. The historical accurate katana does -not- stand up to plate armour, hard objects or european swords in terms of durability, not one bit. Simply due to materials.

Besides, the katana is a horrible weapon for thrusting and stabbing.
It's a slicing weapon, and that's what the curve is for, and that's a fact. It's not really easy to go about and stab your opponent in vulnerable spots with a katana.


I tried both katanas and european swords. They handle very differently, and they all have their upsides and downsides. And I actually participated in 'historical' battles, wearing plate armour and wielding shield/sword, or just a hand-and-a-half sword.

I admit, most of these battles are not realistic nor historical due to all these safety rules ( I don't really agree with most of them, but hey, I have to play by the rules if I want to participate ), but they certainly give you an idea of how combat was done in the medieval period, and private sparring sessions with friends you know, with alot more realistic and in-your-face combat rules complete that experience.

But a katana is a horrible weapon for stabbing, it feels wrong when handling it. It's a cutting weapon.

And you can't cut plate armour with a katana. I'm not even sure if you can cut maille with a katana.


So yes, I do know what I'm talking about, to an extent. I'm not historical professor nor a weaponsmith but I used and handled all of the mentioned weaponry, and used them in combat.

The katana can be used to stab but being curved greatly reduces the speed with which you can work the point and loses effectivness against armoured moving opponents, unarmoured its perfectly fine.
Can you really say something is a weakness if its something it wasn't designed to do for example a Chisel is used to shape wood but is certainly not something I would use to cut down a tree.

Katanas are primarly not armour defeating weapons the thick wedge shape is perfect at splitting soft flesh but works against a more resistant suface because it now has to push material aside which is a massive problem, Swords never cut through armour metal is too hard and the curved shapes deflect rather well.

The edge of a blade is created to aid in the creation of shearing cuts not to defend against strikes ideally you avoid the strikes of your enemies by avoiding thier blows while simulatiously delvering your own, all blade edges are vunerable to damage and so warriors of all nationalities took great care to keep them safe, chipped and folded edges don't cut very well.

 

[lolcatize]

yes i want a katana and 5 trowing knifes

 

[AWOL]

I want one. More precisely i want a cosplay katana. "Murcielago" the sword of Ulquiorra Schiffer. I would settle for any katana, really, but having his would just make it even more awesome.

I know how you feel. I've started collecting replica swords recently, and I already have Tensa Zangetsu (Ichigo), Sode no Shirayuki (Rukia), Benihime (Urahara), and Senbonzakura (Byakuya). My next goal is Sougyo no Kotowari (Captain Ukitake).

 

[JJMUG]

More practical against a trained, armored knight you mean. Also, the katana could split a steel helmet in half.

some high-ranking 16th century samurai lords actually owned pieces of contemporary European armor, gifts and purchases which they even wore into battle -they did not prize them merely as exotica

http://www.thearma.org/essays/knightvs.htm

 

[BGH122]

I have one! It's in my room.

Just go to any European market and buy an unsharpened one then sharpen it with a whetstone.

 

[Wutaiflea]

This whole thread seems be full of half-truths and inaccuracies.

Maintenance-
You do not need to perform maintenance on a katana weekly if you are using it regularly. In most conditions, a sword will not rust for several months in a saya. You oil a sword to protect it from rust, and if you intend to store it for a considerable time, you over-oil the sword. The oil seeps into the pores of the metal and protects it by repelling moisture.
You do not just "dust" a katana. The idea of the chalk is to carefully polish and buff out imperfections, so if you nick your blade performing tameshigiri, it can be polished out with careful cleaning. This is why it's part of the regular maintenance.

Cutting Power-
While the katana was the most prominent sword in Japan, most samurai, Chinese and Koreans were wearing wooden armour. They didn't need to penetrate a knight's helmet, because no one was wearing a comparable type of armour. Everyone seems to forget that the katana has been around for a lot longer than a few hundred years.
The curve and dynamic of the sword is designed to give maximum cutting power, but technique is the most important deciding factor in cutting power, not the sword.

Stabbing-
A katana is primarily a cutting weapon, but stabbing is more than acceptable. Traditionally a "tsuki" move is only performed in sparring by people above a black belt, most stabbing motions are made to the face and throat, which can be lethal even with a blunt weapon.
These were used in combat situations, and only the most high ranking samurai within a clan were permitted to wear the face and throat guards.

Durability-
Blocking is a last resort with any bladed weapon, no matter what the material or smithing style, because 8 times out of 10 you will nick the blade and turn your katana into a giant bread knife. Blocking is entirely different with a broadsword or claymore as these dealt damage primarily by weight, not blade.
Traditionally, most samurai had their blades repaired or replaced after combat- they didn't last forever, although as previously mentioned, small nicks are easily polished out.
Anyone who has seen a real katana will notice that the tsuka is designed so that the blade can be easily replaced. This is deliberate and traditional.
This is also part of why samurai carried multiple blades- so another could be pulled if the other was damaged.
Japanese folded steel is generally durable considering the weight and thickness, but like all things, it has weak points, and is not invulnerable. This is why the Jo staff became popular and also the Jutte, particularly among peasants.

Kill Bill-
If you honestly think the Japanese swordsmanship in Kill Bill was any good, go and look up the martial arts choreographer- as you'll notice, that's not a very Japanese name. That's because they're primarily performing Wushu- an elaborate and all-round cool looking Chinese style that has nothing to do with a katana.
The only fight of any note is Beatrix's final battle with O-Ren Ishii, which was choreographed by Sonny Chiba, who was one of the few people in the film who is an absolute demon with a katana.

 

[Direwolf750]

More practical against a trained, armored knight you mean. Also, the katana could split a steel helmet in half.

I want a source and citations for this absurd claim - video evidence is obviously preferable. Otherwise, I'll have to regard you as a weeaboo.

Maybe not as absurd as you think:


http://www.aikidojournal.com/article.php?articleID=260

That describes a sword cutting competition

As for the arrow cutting in half...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBNOmcOmD1w

 

[Elric_de_Melnibone]

Maybe not as absurd as you think:


http://www.aikidojournal.com/article.php?articleID=260

That describes a sword cutting competition

Check your sources before using them to back up your argument.
They did not use european steel helmets for the testing, the ones we are talking about that, and the katana failed to cut the only steel helmet actually used in that article.

We placed a steel helmet worn by Guy Power, a student of mine who is a captain in the army, on the end of a post and struck at it five times. It was very hard, of course, and the blade wouldn?t cut into it. All I could manage was a dent about two centimeters deep and fifteen centimeters long. On the sixth strike, however, the sword broke right in the middle and went sailing into the air, spinning around and making a sound as it went, and stuck itself in the roof of my house. Paul was rather surprised, of course, and I think he must also have realized what I meant when I had told him how dangerous a broken sword can be.

 

[Direwolf750]

A master with a katana can cut an arrow in mid flight.

If by cut you mean "bat out of the way", I could agree. I've seen it done. If you mean to imply that you bisect the arrow from tip to tail in flight, then I believe reality may have a few things to say about the difficulty of applying a wedge to a point and applying force. I would however point out that such a deflection could be accomplished with any reasonably light sword, such as a sabre.

Notice something about culture, the cultures without curved blades developed thick, heavy, cumbersome armor to deflect weapons, the cultures WITH curved swords, developed lighter, less restricting armor.

The curve in the blade serves to allow for the weapon to cut rather than chop. Moreover, the heavy weapon came as a result of heavy armor, not the other way around.

Do you know why? It is because it was pointless to make better armor when the swords would cut through it anyway.

Pointless? Yes, I suppose protecting one's self from arrows and spears, the more common weapons on the field anyhow, was pointless.

In addition, that little video you posted about the "western armor deflecting an arrow," the arrow was not deflected, IT PENETRATED THE ARMOR. Seriously, if you plan to make a point its a bad idea to contradict yourself in the same breath.

Until the introduction of new technologies western armor did a more than servicable job of deflecting arrows. Even after such technology was implemented, it often only penetrated at very close ranges. It was inevitably the arrow that ended the reign of the Knight just as the effective firearm put an end to effective personal armor for hundreds of years.

Back up to something mode idiotic than anything I've heard about wounds in a while, a stab is not more fatal than a slash in the same area. A stab at a throat is less effective than, say decapitation. Stabbing an arm is less effective than taking it off. And not all straight edged weapons were for stabbing. With the exceptions of fencing swords I'm not aware of any swords meant primarily for stabbing.

This bit has the distinction of being a valid point and yet being utterly meaningless at the same time. A "stab" in the thoat can easily be fatal given time. A stab that proceeds through the spine or into the skull can be instantly fatal. A stab in the arm may simply impede motion, but a stab through the joint will render said limb useless until advanced medical treatment can be applied and many painful months are given to the healing process.

Also, you may want to look into little things when asserting that stabbing weapons are useless. I think the Romans would have disagreed as would the Greeks, or the nobles of France or the Italian city states. The thrust has it's place in combat as much as the cut. To discount it's utility is folly. It is both harder to defend against, delivered more quickly and allows quicker recovery and follow through onto the next action. The nature of such an attack of course is that the wound is much more limited and if not directed precisely it will not be quickly fatal.

I did not mean bisect, but it can be cut in half mid flight an deflected. In addition, I did not mean to discount stabbing, it is a viable way to kill and maim and damage, I merely meant to say that a stab in the same area, are the same depth, is far less effective than a slash. A stab pointed perfectly can puncture arteries, tendons, even the spinal cord, but you have to hit accurately. A slash severs all tendons, cuts anything it hits, with many swords, including bone. A stab can easily kill someone, but a stab at a throat isn't as good as decapitation, or even slitting an artery.

Finally, the person who I was...talking with for lack of better terminology, showed "a video of modern armor deflecting an arrow." The video in fact showed an arrow piercing a specially hardened breastplate. Samurai were primarily archers, the arrow was very effective as a weapon, and a longbow could knock a knight off his horse at 100 yards.

 

[Drexlor]

Yeah, katanas are cool. Why wouldn't I want one?

 

[swansman]

Sure a katana would be nice but I like a zweihander way more. My Colt Combat Commander seems more practical though.

 

[Gilfareth]

Actually, I already have one. Worked for a couple of months to earn the money to get it, and now it just sits atop the bookshelf nearest the door. I hold it casually every time I answer the door, and start tapping the end when I get bored.

 

[jamesworkshop]

[
Finally, the person who I was...talking with for lack of better terminology, showed "a video of modern armor deflecting an arrow." The video in fact showed an arrow piercing a specially hardened breastplate. Samurai were primarily archers, the arrow was very effective as a weapon, and a longbow could knock a knight off his horse at 100 yards.

"the man hasn't even received a scratch"
"but the men still sitting tall in the saddle"



Last arrow even bounces straight off

 

[sketch_zeppelin]

i own a couple of them, i find training with them very relaxing.

 

[ProfessorLayton]

No, because I would never need to use it. It would sit in my room and I would think to myself "Wow, that's pretty cool. I wish I could do something with it instead of look at it."