WoW Player Claims Kicked from Guild for Being Deaf

[Danceofmasks]

Seems to have gotten a tad out of hand, all around. For which I feel bad for, hopefully at the end of the day no one's feelings were hurt though. But, such is life I suppose...

At the end of the day, though ... everyone involved in this thread should improve in their ability to handle these sorts of situations.
'cos people on any side of anything who never argue with the opposition, are almost certainly ignorant.

 

[Mittens The Kitten]

if this was any other website i would troll this thread to death

 

[RaikuFA]

Ha.
This deaf guy wants to get even he should go make his own guild. Don't get sad, get mad, and then go excel at the game in your own way without the other bunch of losers.

Actually, he did form his own guild.

thats great. now we have an actual guild that dosent hate people for being diffrent

Well what disability do you have, is it not being able to read a whole comment. I'm still waiting on your thoughts on this

He tells me that i can't raid unless i have vent. Guild rules and all. I was pissed. After a huge blow out between us i get removed from the guild and put on ignore. Our guild wasn't even that good. We did naxx full clear 10 man once.

well?

Wait are you directing this at me? If so I never got the notification for it in my inbox. So, uh, it's why I ask. That and it's hard to tell since...well hell just covering my bases.

i believe it was towards me

Then answer the question, unless you can't argue against what I said. See when people refuse to answer a question like that, odds are they can't and try to ignore it. So prove me wrong and argue against my reason or don't say anything proving I'm right. If you truly feel he was wronged then defend it and prove me wrong, or ignore me and prove me right.

it could be said for both ways

 

[Arehexes]

Ha.
This deaf guy wants to get even he should go make his own guild. Don't get sad, get mad, and then go excel at the game in your own way without the other bunch of losers.

Actually, he did form his own guild.

thats great. now we have an actual guild that dosent hate people for being diffrent

Well what disability do you have, is it not being able to read a whole comment. I'm still waiting on your thoughts on this

He tells me that i can't raid unless i have vent. Guild rules and all. I was pissed. After a huge blow out between us i get removed from the guild and put on ignore. Our guild wasn't even that good. We did naxx full clear 10 man once.

well?

Wait are you directing this at me? If so I never got the notification for it in my inbox. So, uh, it's why I ask. That and it's hard to tell since...well hell just covering my bases.

i believe it was towards me

Then answer the question, unless you can't argue against what I said. See when people refuse to answer a question like that, odds are they can't and try to ignore it. So prove me wrong and argue against my reason or don't say anything proving I'm right. If you truly feel he was wronged then defend it and prove me wrong, or ignore me and prove me right.

it could be said for both ways

I'm still here, and you still didn't answer the question I asked you

 

[Salem_Wolf]

Seems to have gotten a tad out of hand, all around. For which I feel bad for, hopefully at the end of the day no one's feelings were hurt though. But, such is life I suppose...

At the end of the day, though ... everyone involved in this thread should improve in their ability to handle these sorts of situations.
'cos people on any side of anything who never argue with the opposition, are almost certainly ignorant.

Well, life is hardly without insults and negative comments thrown around. I'm just trying to be nice when I say "I hope no one's feelings are hurt" but really, I mean, if you're hurt you maaay want to toughen up a bit. Unless someone is calling your girlfriend a 25 cent whore, I don't think it's anything to get upset about.

And I agree about never arguing, always question. Like I said: I don't know everything, I feel bad for him for sure, I mean who wouldn't have some sympathy for him for having just gone deaf, and yeah I would LOVE to know more about the side of the guild leader, what was said, how it went down, but that is likely to be unanswered. I mean, picking sides is hard in this case, cause you don't know everything you go by what you do, I'd remain neutral but that doesn't stop me from feeling bad for him. Ya'know?

 

[Salem_Wolf]

if this was any other website i would troll this thread to death

Thank god it's the Escapist?

Out of curiosity: What would you do anyway? And why? Aside from just being a troll?

 

[RaikuFA]

Ha.
This deaf guy wants to get even he should go make his own guild. Don't get sad, get mad, and then go excel at the game in your own way without the other bunch of losers.

Actually, he did form his own guild.

thats great. now we have an actual guild that dosent hate people for being diffrent

Well what disability do you have, is it not being able to read a whole comment. I'm still waiting on your thoughts on this

He tells me that i can't raid unless i have vent. Guild rules and all. I was pissed. After a huge blow out between us i get removed from the guild and put on ignore. Our guild wasn't even that good. We did naxx full clear 10 man once.

well?

Wait are you directing this at me? If so I never got the notification for it in my inbox. So, uh, it's why I ask. That and it's hard to tell since...well hell just covering my bases.

i believe it was towards me

Then answer the question, unless you can't argue against what I said. See when people refuse to answer a question like that, odds are they can't and try to ignore it. So prove me wrong and argue against my reason or don't say anything proving I'm right. If you truly feel he was wronged then defend it and prove me wrong, or ignore me and prove me right.

it could be said for both ways

I'm still here, and you still didn't answer the question I asked you

i just did. if youre not happy with it then just ignore me. because someone else ninja'd what i was gonnna say

 

[RaikuFA]

Seems to have gotten a tad out of hand, all around. For which I feel bad for, hopefully at the end of the day no one's feelings were hurt though. But, such is life I suppose...

At the end of the day, though ... everyone involved in this thread should improve in their ability to handle these sorts of situations.
'cos people on any side of anything who never argue with the opposition, are almost certainly ignorant.

/thread in the best way possible. its surprising how its stayed on course and yet it feels like it went off course

 

[Kakashi on crack]

Shoulda seen this coming.

Now, people online is a whole other story, but people in video games tend to not give two cents about someone's dissabilities, only that they can do a certain thing. It's sickening, but it's the sad truth unfortunatly.

 

[Arehexes]

Ha.
This deaf guy wants to get even he should go make his own guild. Don't get sad, get mad, and then go excel at the game in your own way without the other bunch of losers.

Actually, he did form his own guild.

thats great. now we have an actual guild that dosent hate people for being diffrent

Well what disability do you have, is it not being able to read a whole comment. I'm still waiting on your thoughts on this

He tells me that i can't raid unless i have vent. Guild rules and all. I was pissed. After a huge blow out between us i get removed from the guild and put on ignore. Our guild wasn't even that good. We did naxx full clear 10 man once.

well?

Wait are you directing this at me? If so I never got the notification for it in my inbox. So, uh, it's why I ask. That and it's hard to tell since...well hell just covering my bases.

i believe it was towards me

Then answer the question, unless you can't argue against what I said. See when people refuse to answer a question like that, odds are they can't and try to ignore it. So prove me wrong and argue against my reason or don't say anything proving I'm right. If you truly feel he was wronged then defend it and prove me wrong, or ignore me and prove me right.

it could be said for both ways

I'm still here, and you still didn't answer the question I asked you

i just did. if youre not happy with it then just ignore me. because someone else ninja'd what i was gonnna say

care to point it out, and explain what you mean by "it could be said for both ways". I understand that as "The situation at hands at this point could go either way". Is that what you ment?

 

[RaikuFA]

basically yeah

 

[Salem_Wolf]

Seems to have gotten a tad out of hand, all around. For which I feel bad for, hopefully at the end of the day no one's feelings were hurt though. But, such is life I suppose...

At the end of the day, though ... everyone involved in this thread should improve in their ability to handle these sorts of situations.
'cos people on any side of anything who never argue with the opposition, are almost certainly ignorant.

/thread in the best way possible. its surprising how its stayed on course and yet it feels like it went off course

Isn't that the truth? Heh.

 

[RaikuFA]

Seems to have gotten a tad out of hand, all around. For which I feel bad for, hopefully at the end of the day no one's feelings were hurt though. But, such is life I suppose...

At the end of the day, though ... everyone involved in this thread should improve in their ability to handle these sorts of situations.
'cos people on any side of anything who never argue with the opposition, are almost certainly ignorant.

/thread in the best way possible. its surprising how its stayed on course and yet it feels like it went off course

Isn't that the truth? Heh.

kinda scares me. its never happened to me before.

 

[Salem_Wolf]

kinda scares me. its never happened to me before.

Usually my threads die on me pretty quickly, so it was a scary surprise to find out I'm now hitting 215 replies. Kind of a mind blown moment. And how well it remained on the road, perhaps hitting the ditch a little bit, is creepy. I don't usually see these kinds of threads stay on topic. Hooray?

 

[Arehexes]

Ha.
This deaf guy wants to get even he should go make his own guild. Don't get sad, get mad, and then go excel at the game in your own way without the other bunch of losers.

Actually, he did form his own guild.

thats great. now we have an actual guild that dosent hate people for being diffrent

Well what disability do you have, is it not being able to read a whole comment. I'm still waiting on your thoughts on this

He tells me that i can't raid unless i have vent. Guild rules and all. I was pissed. After a huge blow out between us i get removed from the guild and put on ignore. Our guild wasn't even that good. We did naxx full clear 10 man once.

well?

Wait are you directing this at me? If so I never got the notification for it in my inbox. So, uh, it's why I ask.

wait, why did you get the notification...sorry I dind't mean to direct that at you, it was ment for RaikuFA and I was sure I click on his thing to quote (as you can tell from the cascading quotes). Sorry if there was mix up

Oh! No I didn't get a notification but it kind of sounded like you may have been directing that at me. I just didn't want to avoid answering you if you were discussing something, I personally hate it when someone doesn't respond. Though it sounded somewhat sarcastic. Haha, but no worries no mix-up just making sure!

Edit: Just wanted to add it was my idiocy that made me wonder if it was directed at me or not, heh, sorry.

No it's not your fault, this topic is bugging me because

1)Most people didn't seem to read the whole topic and are assuming he was kicked for being deaf when there is a line saying he got in a "big blow out" with the guild leader, and we don't know what happened during that part (which seems important if this was a court case or something like that)...for that case how did he get deaf, if he did it to himself I don't wanna hear whining(kinda like a skate border getting hurt and milking it even though he was doing a risky stunt)

2)People acting like competition is evil(in video games at least) just because someone got kicked from a guild. When in the rule world competition will happen to you sooner or later, if your going to hunt for a job you better be competitive if 50 other people are trying to get your job(I grow sick of that speech in my programming classes... ).

I gotta be honest, I feel HORRIBLE for the guy, because:

1) He's going through a rough period, ignoring WoW he's lost most or all of his hearing, he RL friends in his post mention that it's easier not to deal with him, and now he's out of his guild, for WHATEVER reason, he no longer has those friends of 4 years, so it really sucks for him as a whole. Maybe he was a douchebag who called the guild leader's mother a street-walking alleyway whore, yeah that might lessen my feeling on the guy's pain, but he's still likely frustrated by the reception of his accident. So, there's that.

2) They were his friends. He mentioned an RL raid which I assume to be a lan-party raid, I've never done an RL raid, so I don't know. But without more details all around, it sucks because you can only go by what's being said.

There's a quote, famously enough, that goes: "History is written by the victor." In this case our deaf WoW player is the victor, and we'll remember it going down as "he was kicked, Guild is a douche, let's do horrible things to them/guild leader until he/she feels suffering in the way this now-deaf player is/does".

It sucks, competition is everywhere I agree, completely, if you're not up to the task you lose a job, or you are kicked off the team, but also there are ways to compensate, too. Ya know? He assured the GL he would do his best to compensate and I think from what is said he wasn't even given a fair shake. Now, perhaps it's more than "no" "but why" "your mom is a whore get out of my guild" and he was given a fair shake, failed, and posted his rant, we just don't know.

But the point is: well, I don't care if you spend 15+ hours a day on WoW, it's really, at the end of the day, a game. You're not going to make nationals, you aren't in a championship game, and if you become top you get...nothing. You're not making a million dollars a raid or sign with a coach who'll get you to the Super Bowl, you're playing a game. Competition is certainly not evil, it breeds superiority (negative or positive), but I think the whole thing is childish and he didn't get a fair shake from what we know, and that's just not right. (Italics for emphasis)

Honestly, I only re-posted from the original page because I felt bad for the guy, wondered what everyone's opinion on this whole scenario was. I'm surprised it's lasted for as long as it did, for more than the reason my threads usually keel or and die in the first couple posts, haha, but more so because I figured everyone would go "that sucks, that's life". Seems to have gotten a tad out of hand, all around. For which I feel bad for, hopefully at the end of the day no one's feelings were hurt though. But, such is life I suppose...

Edit: Sorry for making such a long reply. >_<

I'm sorry I feel bad for the guy, I know what it is like losing friends you thought cared about you. I lost friends I had for 9 years because I'm black and not rich enough (even though we lived on the same street), they pretended to like me just to mock me. But he is sounding like a big cry baby like everyone is out to get him. I knew someone who was
A)adopted
B)had cancer since they were young
C)could not walk
and that person got shit, no one give this person a break besides the family. Their parents had to fight to get ramps at the school they had the person going to (and this was a public school). Picked on because they couldn't walked, even left by their date in the bathroom when they fell out of their chair (the date would not let anyone help the person more or less said "No one will help it's that's person's problem"). Had a rough life but keep their head up and did what they set out to do (I am not doing gender or name cause this was a close person to me). Died a week before getting at of college...so excuse me if I don't see someone getting deaf and not "hearing well" as a big life changer. It's not like he lost a way of life, he can still go one and walk on two damn feet.

And I know what living like a outcast is like
1)Had no friends till 3rd grade and even then they mocked me. So for the longest time my only friends where more or less bullies but I had no one else
2)Each friend hated me for no reason, the few I have left I don't feel I can trust sometimes
3)I've been beaten up for having long hair no less (a black guy with a pony tail) and was always in trouble for fighting when I didn't start it.
4)Had a whole high school more or less shun me cause I'm not "black enough"

And to explain what this has to do with the topic I'll explain it

1)I don't care if he is disabled or not, rules are rules. And note it's not like he has a mental disability where he doesn't know right from wrong.

2)If they were his friends they would have sided with him when he was kicked, they were not so they were not his friends.

3)YOU DO NOT NEED A VIDEO GAME TO OUT REACH SOMEONE. He can still walk, and get around what is stopping him? If his friends left him cause he can't hear then they aren't friends he needs end of story. Stop crying about it and move on.

4)That's life boo'hoo I hope the world is nicer to him, but you know what there are more hurting a lot more then he is. He can still do what ever he wants for the most part, he isn't bound to a wheelchair is he, he isn't sick with a cancer is he. If he is going to cry over a video game then let him, he needs to learn the world isn't a nice place and not everyone well help.

Oh btw gaming is becoming a "sport" if the crappy MLGs are anything to go by (I hate talking to people about that, the smugness is so stupid)

 

[Vrach]

My Thoughts: It's horrible what this person had to go through, I've been playing WoW on-and-off for about 5 years or so and to go through what he went through and THEN find himself kick/banned from his own guild, his friends, is horrible and I personally hope the guild leader is banned from WoW permanently, AT THE LEAST. What a terrible person the guild leader is.

Sucks to be him, doesn't mean it wasn't well within the rights of the guild leader or that he was even wrong in doing it. I imagine you've never played WoW or at least never raided. Communication without the use of Vent/TS is pretty much impossible.

Type text? Yeah, lemme see you paying attention to your surroundings, working your rotation flawlessly and then somehow still manage to type despite the fact that opening a chat box basically nullifies all your keybindings for the duration of you typing the message, let alone actually be able to write out a coherent sentence with your attention already severely taxed.

Sorry, but it's pretty much the case of a handicapped person being dropped out of the school's football team after the accident. Sad? Sure. Wrong? Sorry, but not really.

Oh and heads up, this is coming from someone who actually has raided with a deaf person. You can read tactics on random sites all you want, fact is, each guild does things their own way, which means for every single boss, for every single pull you need to add something, that person needs special treatment which essentially comes down to 9/24 people waiting until you explain everything you just did again to a single person. More importantly, during the fights themselves, due to reasons I've mentioned above, it's impossible to communicate to that person at all.

Also, reading into the story further, he wasn't kicked from the guild. He was told he couldn't raid. Again, due to above, I can totally understand that. Now on top of that he went ahead and had a "blow out" with the guild leader, considering that from the sound of his post he was told politely he can't raid, my guess is that he started a heated argument over it and heads up, being deaf doesn't give you the excuse to go Bale on someone.

To you people thinking/saying "it's just a game" - yes, that is exactly what it is. A place where you go to have fun, not have to spend your time worrying about someone else's problems and have them lessen your game experience (which is a fact, not a matter of insensitivity). There's plenty of guilds out there that'll welcome deaf people and that's really cool, hell I've been in one and would be in one again (said deaf person above never got any flak or even animosity from anyone in the guild, myself included, was actually an awesome guy) - but it doesn't make one guild that's not willing to put up with it and place the happiness of one member over the enjoyment of the rest in the wrong.

 

[Danceofmasks]

Oh btw gaming is becoming a "sport" if the crappy MLGs are anything to go by (I hate talking to people about that, the smugness is so stupid)

People have made careers out of gaming ... MLGs aren't my thing, but here's an example I do follow:
In about an hour (and 8 minutes), the first round of the Code S sponsorship tournament at GOMTV.net starts. GOM's tournaments have a total prize pool of US$1.5 million in 2011.

 

[Solo-Wing]

People stop bitching about the guild. They didn't kick the deaf guy, their Guild Leader did.
I can see how his position in the raid was taken away but to fucking kick and ban him? Like WTF?

 

[emeraldrafael]

You say this:

EDIT:One more thing, this topic isn't about you so stop projecting yourself in what happened to ignore the facts.

Yet in this post:

Snip

You do close to the same thing. Albeit, when you did it you didnt say that he was absolutely right.

Now yes, we dont know the kid said or did. But its the principle of the matter (to me at least). this is going to go down hill fast after this, but its the best way I can explain it because it actually happened to me. I'm Native American descent which means I'm darker then most. I, a black kid (my friend Cameron), and a large majority of white kids (most of whom are my friends), went out for a winter snow ball fight. Now, we had picked up a kid we did not know, but felt sorry for and wanted to include him in our festivities. When it came time to pick teams, he passed over both of us because and i quote him:
"they're not white. They'll be easy to spot against the white of the snow. Whoever picks them is going to have the same thing as two people with broken legs trying to win the 100 meter team dash."

So while no, we dont know what he said and he could be the one at fault, to me (and I cant stress enough that this is MY opinion and MY view on it and shouldnt be the views of everyone else), its unfair to design a guild with rules that exclude others with disabilities when you know they exist and you could potentially run into them. In the United States we had a civil rights movement and other movements for the disabled so this doesnt happen. Yes, WoW is an international game, but its been on the market for a while and is being put out by a company founded in the US.

And I'm sorry, but I feel sorry for you. Not in the way that, "oh he doesnt understand" but in the way of "its a shame he's been ostracized". Perhaps you didnt want to hear that, perhaps you dont believe it, but I do feel for you. Everyone at some point knows what its like to be ostracized, I do, you do, those to post before and after us, we all know. But we shouldnt make it the norm. We should say this is wrong. Maybe not destroy the guild, but impose a punishment of some kind. People need a lesson, an example to say "this is wrong, we will not tolerate it, nor will we tolerate other things that would be viewed as offensive." What sets this apart as morally acceptable but banning people or punishing them for putting a swastika in their gamer profiles arent just because we dont know both sides of the story? I dont remember anyone asking for that kid's side of the story. Maybe he wanted to honor a grandfather that died and he was a german soldier.

Finally, maybe this is people's lives, but that in and of itself is wrong. Yes, its wrong to judge like that, but its unnatural, unhealthy, and just plain odd to spend your life playing WoW or any other game that extensively. Boundaries have to be made between a TOY and a real life.

With that, I'll step down off my soap box and wait. Maybe the person you quoted didnt answer your call, but I tried as best I could for what they quoted me on that you quoted them for.

 

[KarumaK]

WoW is serious business? SHOCKER! No really what a fuckin' shock!

Guildmates are not friends chump they're coworkers once you become a liability expect to be treated as such.