XBOX 360 Slim: Dying, scamming and enraging customers already...

[Binerexis]

So all in all, the new Xbox is the Old Xbox but it's slimmer, makes less noise and swapped out a ring for a dot.

 

[migo]

I had a funny image in my mind when I read your post of droves of waiting customers all standing outside of a mall when the Xbox 360 S was released, all staring at one another saying "Well I'm not buying it first!"

After having my 360 transmogrify itself into a plastic building block several times, I've learned never to buy one of Microsoft's consoles until it has been verified not to die because it is in the mood to ruin a perfectly good day.

I find it most unfortunate that the 360's lack of reliability has never been resolved and now must wear that mark.

Well it was resolved, with Jasper, but then it got un-resolved. Bummer. I was really hoping that the SBox would be more reliable than the Jasper, as competition is good for us, and 360 failure rates are half the reason the Wii took such a massive lead. On the other hand, from a selfish standpoint I also know I have the most reliable Xbox 360 model released, and when everyone else's fails I can pick up the accessories and games for cheap.

So the Jasper Models are the ones that are essentially as good as it gets? I didn't follow the change in boards around that time, so I wasn't sure if those had some problems or not. I just hope that when my replacement refurb bricks (in all likelihood) that I can get a hold of a model that will last a little longer.

Yeah, since the Jasper models have been released I've read that the overall failure rate has dropped to 4%. I'm not sure how all the previous systems factor in to that, so it might actually be roughly that for Jasper models, or even lower. I figure that's a pretty good number given that they stuck with overall the same design that was initially horribly flawed.

My understanding is also that if you're out of warranty and it bricks getting it fixed by a third party is a better option, something to do with clamps. Hasn't happened to me yet, but if you're concerned, look into it. It's a better option than giving MS more money.

 

[migo]

So all in all, the new Xbox is the Old Xbox but it's slimmer, makes less noise and swapped out a ring for a dot.

Yep. And probably they won't re-extend the warranty to 3 years.

 

[Vivace-Vivian]

Well the system certainly has been selling. We haven't had anyone come back with problems with a slim but we're not exactly a huge store either.

To be honest I didn't expect a big turn around.

 

[migo]

I dunno, sounds like all your problems are user error. We're living in a time where it's a technological arms race in our own living rooms. The people who keep up are the people who are obviously most interested and most likely to buy the product, so MS caters to them (and yes, for the record, I'm of the opinion that using a $ in Microsoft's name is immature and stupid [but I'm not going to make a fucking thread about it]).

There's a problem with your logic, as this same type of person heavily researches something before buying it, and will compare with the competition. They'll see that Sony products don't have any of the same problems and are overall much better, and will buy them instead.

This is the kind of person that MS sees its customer as. A customer who has some extra income, some care for their machinery, and some common sense.

Common sense is not buying something that's retardedly fragile. Only a stupid person buys an Xbox 360 S after reading about it. When the 360 launched it was the only next gen system. When the Wii and PS3 launched, it was the only next gen system with any games. There was some justification for buying a 360 despite hardware failure, especially because by then Microsoft had extended the warranty to 3 years. By now the PS3 has a ton of games, and even without hardware failure is a better option for a lot of gamers, and with hardware failure it's a foregone conclusion that you'll buy a PS3. Nobody in their right mind buys an Xbox 360 S until the hardware reliability is back to Jasper levels.

Its new smaller size has made transportation ridiculously easy,

Fanboy. Seriously, it isn't that much smaller, and the old 360 wasn't hard to transport in the first place. Not to mention, since it eats your discs you don't want to move it anyway.

and this is accomplished through a number of ways - one of which being a tightening of the ports on the back. But let's take a look at these ports, shall we?

The PS3 didn't bring in any such compromises when it went slim, and it's much more noticably smaller than the 360 S.

If you use your own Xbox as a reference (I'm assuming you actually have one instead of just lying to sling some mud at the new console), you'll see there are only two pairs of ports that could possibly clash. The first is the Auxiliary output and the Ethernet port. I'm not even sure if these two clash because I'm not a cave man and I DO have Wifi.

It's stupid to use Wifi - performance is degraded for online play. While it sucks that Microsoft made people pay extra for it, it ended up being a non issue as smart people use ethernet anyway. If you only have Wifi for whatever reason, because you're living in a dorm, then fine, wifi works, but using wifi isn't the mark of not being a cave man, it's the mark of being ill informed about network performance.

Since the Xbox has a built-in Wifi adapter, we're good. The other is an HDMI and AV... Are you seriously so dumb that you can't manage some sort of wiring or splitting so that you don't need BOTH cords plugged in? Or are you playing on a shit tier TV with no proper audio output? If either of these are your answer, then I claim user error. If you own a fancy stereo system and are not prepared with the appropriate devices to make it work properly (like AUDIO OUTPUT ON YOUR TV), then that is just old-fashioned doingitwrong.

If it worked before, and Microsoft unnecessarly changed things (like the hard drive, which wasn't for the better), it's not doing it wrong. It's Microsoft fixing something that wasn't broke (hard to imagine saying that about an Xbox 360).

Oh, and AGAIN with the disc-scratching? Bullshit. If you are so dumb as to turn your Xbox from horizontal to vertical or vice-versa while it is SPINNING, I should come to your house and etch an angry letter into your Xbox games myself.

Works fine with a PS3, PS2, Wii, GameCube, Original Xbox, PS1, DreamCast.... yeah, it's MS' fault. It's simply failure of the 360 S in the face of competition. If it happened with every console, sure. It doesn't, the 360 S is unique in this aspect so it's a fault.

If your Xbox is standing vertically (which is already ill-advised),

If it's ill-advised, it shouldn't be possible in the first place, and Microsoft shouldn't advertise it standing vertically. Their fault.

then it should be SECURE! This one isn't TOO bad of a mark on you, as an earthquake or something can knock it over, but still... Take some precaution, will you?

Yeah, like not buying an Xbox 360 S. That's the best precaution there is. It's like sex, you don't have to abstain, but rather than having sex with a whore (the Xbox 360 S), you stick in a monogamous relationship with a wholesome girl (the PS3).

Even if it DOES eat your disc, you have a MASSIVE hard drive on which you can install all of your favorite games. Once you do this, you can use a fucked disc to play the game. My friend does it with Red Dead Redemption all the time.

The hard drive stops being so massive if you have to install every game, and it rather defeats the purpose of having a console. Not to mention, MS sells the 4GB version as well, and there isn't an option for hard drive upgrades. If it's inadvisable to not install games MS should only have the 250GB one and update the firmware to prevent playing before installing a game. You shouldn't have to worry about destroying your disc using the console the way it was meant to be used.

Also, those are the cheapest shots at Kinect I've ever seen someone take. I think it's over-priced but to complain that you can't wear baggy clothes or sit down is ridiculous. Were you mad when you got the Wii and found out you had to point it at the TV to make it go?

They're not cheap at all. No baggy clothes. No dark clothes. No sitting down. Not more than two people. It's pretty useless for gaming. Nothing rips you out of immersion of a driving game more than having to stand up. Microsoft cancelled the Courier for some bizarre reason, they should definitely have cancelled the Kinect.

Seriously, cry more. I know I am going to incur moderator wrath as a result of this, but this has to be the biggest pile of bullshit I've ever seen someone try and feed as proof that a company is some sort of tyrant who holds contempt for its constituents.

You just have a hardon for the 360 and feel bad if other people don't reinforce your purchse decision by getting one too.

 

[migo]

Well the system certainly has been selling. We haven't had anyone come back with problems with a slim but we're not exactly a huge store either.

To be honest I didn't expect a big turn around.

It hasn't been out for very long. Problems aren't going to be cropping up right away, and not as many are going to sell as when the 360 originally launched.

 

[Forgetitnow344]

Snip

I was expecting to come back to find myself defending myself against people who had a problem with my post... Only to see someone had come along and done it for me... Hats off!

I actually HAVE all three core consoles and I use them ALL regularly. All of the problems held by people against the Slim are people who take every possible issue and act as though they all have them and there is zero way of preventing any of them. How about treating your systems with some care?

There is one place I'll concede with Migo... The hell is up with that 4GB version of the Slim? The NXE takes up a chunk of memory on its own, so you have LESS than 4GB of data available... Not counting installed games or DLC, I have over 30GB of game data on my Xbox right now. It's unfathomable to me for someone to spend that much money on a system and only have 4GB of data on it. Well, I could see if they had a large external they had attached at all times, but that's about it.

 

[SelectivelyEvil13]

How about treating your systems with some care?

When I first bought my 360, that's exactly what I was thinking. I really just assumed that a lot of problems could be traced to the user. I don't think I could have been more wrong on the old version at least, I have never had a console that where it necessitated the creation of a "Please work please work please work!" prayer ha ha!

It got to the point where I put a little fan by it and placed four little stick-on pegs to raise it for better circulation. It may have helped, be it in reality or just to ease my conscious, but no matter what it was a measure that should not have been required.

When the Xbox 360 was my only "next-gen" console, even the start-up purr gave me shivers as I would recollect those fateful calls to the Microsoft help line. At least I always had good customer service (something I always wondered about when people would complain).

 

[PhiMed]

No stereo audio out? That can't be true. That would leave optical and HDMI as your only options for hooking it up to a receiver. Stop creating fictional televisions.

I already told you, it has a single jack audio out. And it's an LCD gaming/graphic design monitor, it's quite common for those, so don't be such a fucking smart ass.

There is scart which sends audio out, and a component red and white phono IN. The other red and white phono slots are ins for a camcorder.

So you have a monitor designed for a desktop connected to a console designed for a television, with an obsolete interface standard as your only audio out.

You know? Now that you mention it, I'm mad that my black and white Zenith won't connect to my PS3.

I'm also mad that the 5 lb turkey I bought the other day won't cook in my toaster.

I know I'm resorting to hyperbole, but I'm not exaggerating that much when I make those comparisons to your current predicament. There's no need to go into a rage and curse at me when my post was, while sarcastic, completely obscenity- and rage-free.

I understand that you're upset, but Microsoft couldn't possibly have anticipated every single potential use of their product. Otherwise they'd have a NES-era coaxial switch, too. I think they've done a pretty good job of making the product versatile. There's no S-video output, either, if memory serves me correctly, but that's because that format isn't in use much anymore. The vast majority of people are going to be hooking it up to an HD television, not a monitor.

Calm down, think about how else you might be able to use the product to achieve the use you want, and quit attempting to get everyone to jump on the bandwagon to doom the product to failure.

 

[MiracleOfSound]

I understand that you're upset, but Microsoft couldn't possibly have anticipated every single potential use of their product.

If Microsoft didn't predict this happening, why did they deliberately build the cable to block the HDMI and PAL from being used together?

And why did they release a handy HDMI/HDMI Audio connector at the exact same time?

Come on dude, it's not that much of a stretch of the imagination to think they were being pretty damn cynical there.

Calm down, think about how else you might be able to use the product to achieve the use you want, and quit attempting to get everyone to jump on the bandwagon to doom the product to failure.

I am calm as summer's breeze... the reason I got tetchy was because you suggested I was 'inventing' TVs that don't exist.

I am also not dooming anything to failure. Did you miss the parts in the OP where I voiced my views on what I liked about it? And how I was going to play it every day? I hope it doesn't fail, because I have one!

I was merely looking at the concerns people have and another issue that annoyed me personally.... which to me was a kind of 'straw that broke the camels back' after the amount of shit I had from MS with my previous 360.

 

[migo]

Migo... I have some problems with this post. Let's dissect this shall we?


-While yes, I know that this is one of the basis of your argument, the whole "problem" that Microsoft's Xbox has, you continually insult it,

Of course I insult it, it deserves to be insulted, it's a piece of crap.

then promote the PS3. This does not seem to be a huge problem... yet.

I'm not promoting, I'm pointing out the competition doesn't have the same problems. If the 360 were the only option, people would put up with it, but since it isn't, and there's something else that does everything the 360 does (and more, incidentally) without the problems, it needs to be highlighted.

Its new smaller size has made transportation ridiculously easy,

Fanboy. Seriously, it isn't that much smaller, and the old 360 wasn't hard to transport in the first place. Not to mention, since it eats your discs you don't want to move it anyway.

-THIS is the problem. You call him a "Fanboy" and yet you continually promote the PS3 and insulting the 360. Please do not be a hypocrite. Here are even more examples:

It's not a problem, he is a fanboy. The PS2 Slim is ridiculously easy to transport, particularly the 90K models. The Xbox 360 S isn't, an anyone who claims that it is has a serious case of fanboyism, there's no other way about it.

and this is accomplished through a number of ways - one of which being a tightening of the ports on the back. But let's take a look at these ports, shall we?

The PS3 didn't bring in any such compromises when it went slim, and it's much more noticably smaller than the 360 S.

-More promoting of of the PS3...

Comparing and promoting aren't the same thing. It's an apples to apples comparison, and if a product compares badly to the competition, it gets pointed out.

Since the Xbox has a built-in Wifi adapter, we're good. The other is an HDMI and AV... Are you seriously so dumb that you can't manage some sort of wiring or splitting so that you don't need BOTH cords plugged in? Or are you playing on a shit tier TV with no proper audio output? If either of these are your answer, then I claim user error. If you own a fancy stereo system and are not prepared with the appropriate devices to make it work properly (like AUDIO OUTPUT ON YOUR TV), then that is just old-fashioned doingitwrong.

If it worked before, and Microsoft unnecessarly changed things (like the hard drive, which wasn't for the better), it's not doing it wrong. It's Microsoft fixing something that wasn't broke (hard to imagine saying that about an Xbox 360).

-More insulting of the Xbox...

Again, it deserved it. It changed things for no benefit to the end user, only to force people to buy more accessories, either with the Kinect adaptor for old 360 models, or the hard drive transfer kit, or the new hard drives rather than the ones already available.

then it should be SECURE! This one isn't TOO bad of a mark on you, as an earthquake or something can knock it over, but still... Take some precaution, will you?

Yeah, like not buying an Xbox 360 S. That's the best precaution there is. It's like sex, you don't have to abstain, but rather than having sex with a whore (the Xbox 360 S), you stick in a monogamous relationship with a wholesome girl (the PS3).

-Insulting the Xbox and more Promoting the PS3...

The Xbox 360 S is a whore, it destroys your disks (gives you STDs) and breaks down (dies of a drug overdose). If the Xbox 360 S didn't suck, I wouldn't insult it. Microsoft's a big company, they're not going to be huddled up in a corner crying because of what I say.

Even if it DOES eat your disc, you have a MASSIVE hard drive on which you can install all of your favorite games. Once you do this, you can use a fucked disc to play the game. My friend does it with Red Dead Redemption all the time.

The hard drive stops being so massive if you have to install every game, and it rather defeats the purpose of having a console. Not to mention, MS sells the 4GB version as well, and there isn't an option for hard drive upgrades. If it's inadvisable to not install games MS should only have the 250GB one and update the firmware to prevent playing before installing a game. You shouldn't have to worry about destroying your disc using the console the way it was meant to be used.

-More of a personal thing: I have never had to install a single game, no game of mine as had extreme, major scratches or dents unless it was user created. All my games work and play fine.

It was destroying discs on launch day. No problem affects everyone, but it's pretty prevalent.

Seriously, cry more. I know I am going to incur moderator wrath as a result of this, but this has to be the biggest pile of bullshit I've ever seen someone try and feed as proof that a company is some sort of tyrant who holds contempt for its constituents.

You just have a hardon for the 360 and feel bad if other people don't reinforce your purchse decision by getting one too.

Quite the contrary, YOU have a "Hard on" for the PS3 and are insulting Xbox users by calling them "Fanboys" When YOU, good sir, are in fact a "fanboy" for the PS3.

I don't have a PS3, silly. I have 2 Microsoft consoles (all of them) and 1 Sony (PS2). Xbox 360 owner, yet a PS3 fanboy? That doesn't make a lick of sense, and you have to engage in some extreme mental gymnastics to make yourself believe that, let alone anyone else.

Snip

I was expecting to come back to find myself defending myself against people who had a problem with my post... Only to see someone had come along and done it for me... Hats off!

I actually HAVE all three core consoles and I use them ALL regularly. All of the problems held by people against the Slim are people who take every possible issue and act as though they all have them and there is zero way of preventing any of them. How about treating your systems with some care?

Nobody is abusive to their other consoles, they treat them with care, but you have to walk on eggshells around the 360 S. It's the odd one out, hell, even the original Xbox didn't need to be treated with care, and the launch 360 didn't need as much care either.

There is one place I'll concede with Migo... The hell is up with that 4GB version of the Slim? The NXE takes up a chunk of memory on its own, so you have LESS than 4GB of data available... Not counting installed games or DLC, I have over 30GB of game data on my Xbox right now. It's unfathomable to me for someone to spend that much money on a system and only have 4GB of data on it. Well, I could see if they had a large external they had attached at all times, but that's about it.

Well, if Microsoft actually allowed the full capacity of an external hard drive to be used instead of just the first 16GB....

No stereo audio out? That can't be true. That would leave optical and HDMI as your only options for hooking it up to a receiver. Stop creating fictional televisions.

I already told you, it has a single jack audio out. And it's an LCD gaming/graphic design monitor, it's quite common for those, so don't be such a fucking smart ass.

There is scart which sends audio out, and a component red and white phono IN. The other red and white phono slots are ins for a camcorder.

So you have a monitor designed for a desktop connected to a console designed for a television, with an obsolete interface standard as your only audio out.

MS supports standard LCD monitor resolutions internally on the Xbox 360, so it's actually a console designed for TVs and computer monitors. I've got my 360 hooked up to an LCD monitor at XGA resolution.

I know I'm resorting to hyperbole, but I'm not exaggerating that much when I make those comparisons to your current predicament. There's no need to go into a rage and curse at me when my post was, while sarcastic, completely obscenity- and rage-free.

If you were talking about the PS3 I might agree with you, since it has no support in place for computer monitors, but the 360 does, so you're just uninformed.

I understand that you're upset, but Microsoft couldn't possibly have anticipated every single potential use of their product.

They could have left things the way they were, and this particular usage they did anticipate because everyone was using converters to do it with the original Xbox.

Otherwise they'd have a NES-era coaxial switch, too. I think they've done a pretty good job of making the product versatile. There's no S-video output, either, if memory serves me correctly, but that's because that format isn't in use much anymore.

S-Video is handled with a composite cable, and yes, there is S-Video support for the 360.

The vast majority of people are going to be hooking it up to an HD television, not a monitor.

Maybe true, but being able to hook it up to a monitor is one of the big reasons to choose a 360 over a PS3 or Wii.

 

[Forgetitnow344]

It's not a problem, he is a fanboy.

And then I stopped reading. Clearly, if all you're going to do is assert a false title with slanderous intent, you're operating on an illogical mindset and ill-fit for any reasonable argument. I've wasted enough of my life arguing over stupid things on the internet to know when to walk away from another illogical being.