Xbox 720: No disk drive, No used games.

[Treblaine]

EA or Mircosoft complaining about used games is like IKEA complaining about garage sales.

I don't know, I can only speak for the UK (though I hear it's just as bad and worse around the world) 80% of the shelf space in stores is dedicated to pre-owned games with posters everywhere offering news games for trading in old ones. We have several very large and successful stores that deal ENTIRELY in used games, such as CEX! Not a single new game enters their store, every game in brought in is brought in by customer wanting trade in or credit.

This is no garage operation, this is HUGE! I don't think you can compare games to IKEA furniture even in this broad analogy. Game makers already take such a small cut of each disc sale, but they need continuing sales down the road but it just gets recycled.

Speaking as a PC gamer who buys so many digital downloads on steam... this is not a problem. Because I have seen how when the resale market is destroyed, you enter the possibility of the Super-Sales. 60% off, 75% off games less than a year old, even 85% off BUNDLES of games! You can't resell iPhone apps... but they're no more than a couple dollars anyway! Hell, apps more often just go completely free for short time than go on sale, that's how I got my favourite App games.

And with digital you have a PRACTICAL lending and try-before-you-buy model of things like Free Weekends and Guest Passes. Those are real tasters, for limited-time-only, not try and use for as long as you like. A test drive, not a free-rental service. Free Weekend got me to consider Modern Warfare 3... just enough of a taste to have me wanting more!

 

[Charli]

If this is how it's going to be, I'd rather have the steam-box-thing.

At least all my games I own are on there.

Would be nice if the Xbox 720 could scan the games you have to your account and allow you to redownload them. Buuut I'm going to guess that would be too much effort and easily exploitable for them. Rolling in some more cash is more attractive.

What IS the big deal, Steam gives you copies of the game for around 80% off every now and then, Sure you have to wait for the random deals, but Autumn and Christmas just go bananas and you can pick up over 50 games for ridiculous prices. More than you would get buying the extortionate prices at GAME/Gamestop.


This plan is a good and profitable one providing they execute it properly.

 

[Treblaine]

It is just a rumor as of this moment. If Microsoft didn't do used games, and Sony did, the PS4 would win the next console generation on day one. Regardless of what you personally think about GameStop (or Amazon, or Ebay, or Craigslist, apparently), so many people buy used games that not being able to would cripple Microsoft.

Ah, what if this were to be shaken up a bit by pushing its advantage.

What if PlayStation π does keep the discs that can be resold no-questions-asked... but each game sold for $70... and publishers could only see about $40 of that from all the licensing costs of each game sold.

But then Microsoft's new Xbox is digital only: each game selling for about $45 (and 90% of that goes DIRECTLY into game-maker's pocket)

So yes, no resales, but on the other hand: $45

Sony couldn't go any cheaper than $60 and really should go $70 with a disc, but Microsoft could very easily hugely undercut the disc based system by avoiding retail mark ups and still give larger returns per copy sold. It could easily sell more copies due to the lower price at such a magnitude it would offset money lost by lower price point. It's basically the steam-model/

People would go INSANE for a Next Generation Mass Effect 4 for only $45. Of course, each game will easily have another $45 worth of DLC and there will be a premium to get the game early, it could even use the minecraft model of pay for pre-order to get early access to beta. And microsoft could easily make losses on this as long as people keep paying for Xbox Live gold membership.

 

[silver wolf009]

Well, from what I've seen, isn't this supposed to be just rumors?

But if we're dealing with hypothetical:

No disk drive.
No used games.
No sale.

Simple as that in my book.

 

[OldDirtyCrusty]

I live in germany. Many smaller titles still get cutted and censored, or they don`t even get a release (syndicate, Mortal Kombat). While it`s not a biggie with titles like God of war, RDR or even the latest Gears of war (the USK seems to be much more forgiving nowadays- smells like money to me)i like every game in it`s original way, the way it was meant to be played and i play all my games in english (cause the geman dub is almost everytime awfull). While i`s easy to get my games now (i can order, or go shopping in the beloved netherlands - no sarcasm, greets) it would be hard to maintain this freedom with a discfree console. I don`t own a box atm but i still hope this all stays as a rumour.

 

[008Zulu_v1legacy]

Windows 8 is rumoured to have an X360 emulator built in to it, so maybe it won't impact too much the people who like their old X360 games. Given that the X360s have a limited lifespan I don't think we would have to worry about not being able to play the games. I mean, how long would it be before an unofficial X360 emulator became widespread?

Well, from what I've seen, isn't this supposed to be just rumors?

We are like Fox News; Anything half way real sounding and we treat it like it was carved in stone.

 

[MrGalactus]

I don't think these rumours are true. How is it in Microsoft's best interests to block used games?

Had it not been for me buying Crackdown, a game I'd barely heard of, used, I would never have pre-ordered Crackdown 2. Hypothetically, If I go out and buy Halo 3, I'm not going to buy it new because that way it's cheaper and I can return it if I don't like it. What if I end up loving it? I'd be far more likely to pre order ODST and Reach and Halo 4, wouldn't I? Blocking used games also blocks new customers. Killing used games is a terrible idea for Microsoft, any developer or publisher, and I hope they can see the long term effects.

I honestly think the war on used games could seriously, seriously backfire on the industry. I'm worried it might end up stabbing itself in the heart.

Think about it. Every game will have to be part of a well known, long-established series. New games will never be able to get their foot in the door because everyone will have to dedicate $60 to a game they've not heard of much, and when that doesn't happen, that series will die and fade into obscurity instantly.

On the upside, Call of Duty 29023409234: the nuclear plot orchestrated the Eastern European/Middle Eastern terrorists/communist seperatists will sell really fucking well every year.

 

[5mj7R7yf4Dwr3gdZyyu9PeGNwYjlNrjzuh3iTXQG]

Uh, guys, let us remember who we're dealing with:

Microsoft.

The Great Cthulhu of software publishing houses.

These are the guys who are going to cease support for Windows XP, that is, an OS still in wide use, and they're just going to stop activating it. Computers with the home edition are just going to be forced to go 7 or go Linux[footnote]Though for us Yar Har, Fiddle-Dee-Dee types, there are numerous hacks and the Performance Edition which is a speedy, slimmed down DRM free version, in many ways superior to 7 and supported by the hackzor community, and may still get security updates from the community when Big MS quits.[/footnote]. Granted, complaints from the business sector, which still depends heavily on XP (and with more and more businesses switching to Linux rather than upgrade) has encouraged Microsoft to extend their support schedule.

But don't forget Zune in which you had to re-purchase all your songs when the old DRM was no longer supported after a software update. They didn't even bother giving you a coupon for the new DRM version; Big MS just said suck it, Zunites!

Which means there's already a company policy precedent that you will have to repurchase all your games when the XBOX 1440 (or whatevs) comes out. If they're nice, they'll do like Steam and make your account independent of your unit and allow you to keep your account and games as you upgrade systems.[footnote]Also, if they're smart, they'll accept valid 360 game serials and purchase records to add those games to your 720 account, as Steam does.[/footnote] But more likely, Microsoft'll simply brick your unit and your account when the beast feels hungry for another big infusion of cash.

So, you can learn from history, decide that Homey don't play that game, and not buy into to Big MS's walled garden (confident that either MS will sweeten the deal, or that serious competitors will rise), or you can go all oooh! Halo IV Super-Elite-Atomic-Double-Dog-Deluxe Edition and welcome your new corporate overlords, and still be surprised when Microsoft's barbed, steely-cold, double-wide girth ultimately nudges at your rectum.

Microsoft has disregarded its customer base for over twenty years now. Don't make the mistake in believing it's going to play nice anytime soon.

238U[footnote]Heave, Ho, thieves and beggars,
Never shall we die![/footnote]

 

[MorganL4]

It doesn't effect me because I won't be buying another console. I have a PC that can play any game I want and any game that doesn't come out for the PC meh, I probably won't want it that bad, the last 2 times I desperately wanted a console exclusive I was deeply disapointed, the last few times I bought PC games I was really pleased, so yeah, I'll just put that $500 for a new console towards upgrading my PC when the time comes.

 

[Treblaine]

It is just a rumor as of this moment. If Microsoft didn't do used games, and Sony did, the PS4 would win the next console generation on day one. Regardless of what you personally think about GameStop (or Amazon, or Ebay, or Craigslist, apparently), so many people buy used games that not being able to would cripple Microsoft.

Ah, what if this were to be shaken up a bit by pushing its advantage.

What if PlayStation π does keep the discs that can be resold no-questions-asked... but each game sold for $70... and publishers could only see about $40 of that from all the licensing costs of each game sold.

But then Microsoft's new Xbox is digital only: each game selling for about $45 (and 90% of that goes DIRECTLY into game-maker's pocket)

So yes, no resales, but on the other hand: $45

Sony couldn't go any cheaper than $60 and really should go $70 with a disc, but Microsoft could very easily hugely undercut the disc based system by avoiding retail mark ups and still give larger returns per copy sold. It could easily sell more copies due to the lower price at such a magnitude it would offset money lost by lower price point. It's basically the steam-model/

People would go INSANE for a Next Generation Mass Effect 4 for only $45. Of course, each game will easily have another $45 worth of DLC and there will be a premium to get the game early, it could even use the minecraft model of pay for pre-order to get early access to beta. And microsoft could easily make losses on this as long as people keep paying for Xbox Live gold membership.

The problem is, you're still cutting off a large section of the consumer market. Many people buy used to try a game out, then return it without losing investment if they don't like the game.

Secondly, game retailers don't hike prices that much, if at all. Prices are set at an industry standard to promote competition. Hence, Wal-Mart, Target, K-Mart, and GameStop all sell new games for the same price across the board. While it would be nice if they lowered prices as a return for no used games, it wouldn't happen, because people have been shown to pay that much before, and removing profit goes against what every company stands for.

The problem with that is like a world where the down-payment to Test-Drive a car is the exact same price as buying a car.

Try-before-you-buy is TOTALLY covered by:
-demos
-free weekends
-guest-passes
-free-to-play
-(super-sales = low risk purchase)

People do NOT buy used games to "try". They buy them to PLAY! They RENT games to try.

"Secondly, game retailers don't hike prices that much, if at all."

They must hike prices SOMEWHAT otherwise they'd be operating as a charity or even deliberately bankrupting their company. If they sold games for the same price the publishers sell them to for, then they'd just be wasting a dickload of money in upkeep of stores, transport, heating, electricity, staffing, insurance, rent, etc

"While it would be nice if they lowered prices as a return for no used games, it wouldn't happen"

It did with PC's Steam, GoG, Apple App Store, Android Marketplace, etc... all the markets that have gone pure-digital prices have plummeted.

"removing profit goes against what every company stands for."

A Poor businessman thinks the only way to increase profit is through increased price-tag. Look at ACTUAL successful businesses, its all about 'piling high and selling cheap'. Sony broke into the gaming market beating Nintendo this way that stuck with expensive cartridges while Sony went with cheaper discs. Today, digital is to discs as discs were to cartridges. If Microsoft goes digital-only then they'll have to reduce cost to be competitive with any other console-manufacturer who goes with disc-based model with resale.

 

[Griffolion]

It will essentially be a Steam machine

[MEDIA=youtube]00hI7qrcPX0[/MEDIA]

OT: I doubt they will completely get rid of this, i'm going to have to wait for an official announcement before I even begin to contemplate this sort of thing.

 

[idarkphoenixi]

No backwards compatability makes sense, I will use microsoft logic to explain why:

Employee - "People really enjoyed some games and want to keep playing them on the new console"

Microsoft- "Ah but how do we make profit from that?"

Employee - "Well...we don't, although I guess people might be more convinced to buy our 720"

Microsoft- "Release the kraken!"

Employee - "Wait! How about we DON'T allow backwards compatibility and make them buy the games they liked a second time on our online store?"

Microsoft- "BRILLIANT!!"

Trust me...Previous gen games will be made available, but why should you get them for free just because you already bought them?
The logic behind no used games has been gone over a million times, if it's true...it will mean the death of them. I know they've done some pretty dumb things but I doubt they are THAT stupid, we'll see...

 

[LooK iTz Jinjo]

That's an old article and is purely speculation.Take nothing away from it because I guarantee you that the next console will have disks, will allow for used games and will be (partially) backwards compatible. This exact same rumour was around last cycle. It's just game "journalists" trying to get a few hits on a poorly written article.

 

[MeChaNiZ3D]

F*** that s***. Sony better not pull that kind of thing with the next Playstation (and I'm adamant there'll be one) or I'll lose all respect. It's like a publishers' wet dream; games that they have complete control over, the ability to restrict your access if you do anything they don't like, everything they're trying to do now but more convenient. As I said, f*** it. There should be enough of a market just among people who like to know their games are secure for a console that DOESN'T deal in downloadable games only. I'd be particularly annoyed if everyone went this way because I live in Australia, which means I will suddenly have no choice but to shell out obscene amounts of money for my games, where before there was always eBay and trade-ins.

Thankfully though, this is purely speculation. Otherwise I'd have gotten the .50 cal already.

 

[MeChaNiZ3D]

No used games? Bah who cares, Steam doesn't have used games and that doesn't slow me down at all. If they make new games like 55USD instead of 60 they might be able to get consumers to think of this as a plus.

Yeah, but the difference is that Steam isn't run by Microsoft. I hope you're right, but I think Microsoft would just crush their market until they've gotten all the juice out rather than provide reasonable prices, or even...sales. 0_0