Xbox Live Gets a Price Hike

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JaymesFogarty

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Grant Hobba said:
JaymesFogarty said:
Grant Hobba said:
JaymesFogarty said:
That's why I bought a PS3. If you don't play online, I don't see the point in Xbox live. I don't, (as I prefer games with real stories and interesting characters) and I opted to get the PS3 because of that. But why are they hiking it? PSN is free, and that's been updating itself for a while now.

all the games you can get on ps3 are on xbox... and metal gear solid and little big planet do not count.... their games in the same way swimming is a sport...

and no im not a live fanboy ... tbh i dislike live and never paid for it again after the first subscription...
Games like God of War 3, Heavy Rain? There are more interesting games for me on the PS3 than on the 360, which of course is why I opted for the PS3. And I don't know what you're talking about. LittleBigPlanet is obviously a video game. And if Metal Gear Solid 4 isn't a game because it has long cutscenes, wait what? That's like saying Halo 3 isn't a game because it's shit. Or that Gear of War 2 isn't a game because the main character has shit for brains. On your basis, what constitutes a game?

god of war was the worst series ive ever played ... and heavy rain was not far behind it... and gears of war and halo are just as bad.... granted gears of war was fun and intuitave to play but as far as story goes none of these games had even a half decent writer... for the most part games like lbp are for children... they are a niche market simply and only.... mgs4 is a movie.... there is little gameplay to be had... im told playing earlier games would make this more fun and it didnt... no one wants to play a game thats 90 story and 10 percent pressing buttons to make more story happen....
Obviously, 10 million people did want to play a game like that. Just like 10 million people played Half Life 2 with no cutscenes at all. You simply press buttons in order to be able to press more buttons, and that game is loved by many including myself. Tell me, are there any games that you like? Or are you just trolling?
 

JaymesFogarty

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IamSofaKingRaw said:
Grant Hobba said:
JaymesFogarty said:
Grant Hobba said:
JaymesFogarty said:
That's why I bought a PS3. If you don't play online, I don't see the point in Xbox live. I don't, (as I prefer games with real stories and interesting characters) and I opted to get the PS3 because of that. But why are they hiking it? PSN is free, and that's been updating itself for a while now.

all the games you can get on ps3 are on xbox... and metal gear solid and little big planet do not count.... their games in the same way swimming is a sport...

and no im not a live fanboy ... tbh i dislike live and never paid for it again after the first subscription...
Games like God of War 3, Heavy Rain? There are more interesting games for me on the PS3 than on the 360, which of course is why I opted for the PS3. And I don't know what you're talking about. LittleBigPlanet is obviously a video game. And if Metal Gear Solid 4 isn't a game because it has long cutscenes, wait what? That's like saying Halo 3 isn't a game because it's shit. Or that Gear of War 2 isn't a game because the main character has shit for brains. On your basis, what constitutes a game?[/quote


god of war was the worst series ive ever played ... and heavy rain was not far behind it... and gears of war and halo are just as bad.... granted gears of war was fun and intuitave to play but as far as story goes none of these games had even a half decent writer... for the most part games like lbp are for children... they are a niche market simply and only.... mgs4 is a movie.... there is little gameplay to be had... im told playing earlier games would make this more fun and it didnt... no one wants to play a game thats 90 story and 10 percent pressing buttons to make more story happen....
It seems to me you hate all great games. Also the guy you're arguing with forgot InFamous, Killzone, Resistance, Sly Cooper etc.. but still, what game is actually great to you if classics like MGS4, Heavy Rain and Halo are shit?
Do you think this guy is trolling? He's new, and he hates everything. And thank you, I did forget those.
 

SyphonX

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It really is just a stupid joke.

Virtually everything on Xbox Live is something you have to pay for anyway. Pay for a Gold membership just so I can pay to download DLC for a game I already paid for, on top of already buying the console, on top of already being subscribed to an internet service?

F-ing Microsuck.

No, it's not a "big price issue", it's a common sense "go stuff it" issue.

It would be virtually identical to say.. an Internet browser subscription. Having to pay $5 a month to use Chrome/Internet Explorer/Opera/Insert any browser, on top of your internet fees, just so you can get online to buy more things.

Oh.. wait.. We're already going in that direction!! Oh man I am so psyched!! I would so let Microsoft stomp on my consumerist balls if it pleased them!! Aw yeah man!
 

Googenstien

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Eclectic Dreck said:
Googenstien said:
according to most peoples responses here.. Microsoft should charge you fools even more money for nothing special! Maybe $99 a year will make you guys happier? hehe
I like how you assert that people might be "fools" for paying for a service. Am I a fool for paying for my internet? How about my cell phone? These are services too and they cost significantly more than my XBL subscription.

Yes, yes. I know that such things are free elsewhere. The fact that PSN is free is what ensures I am not annoyed when terrible problems occur or by a less complete feature set or by a less intuitive interface. The fact that playing most games on my PC is free is a boon as well, but it is also the price I pay for the frustrations that sometimes accompany PC gaming. That things are free elsewhere however does not mean I cannot appreciate the value a service provides. There is certainly a price that is sufficient that I would reconsider XBL membership. As it stands now, I simply do not have to. The price asked amounts to but a few hours labor in a 2,000 hour work year. Were I asked to pay perhaps 300 USD per year, then it would be a sum that I would notice missing, and we would have reached a point where the question of value became pertinent in my decision making process.
I called the people who say its no big deal/like the price hike fools. They are when they are the only ones paying for the ability to play a game online where PC and/or PS3 people pay nothing. There are very few true 360 exclusives (meaning no PC too)so the reason why you pay for it really gets pricey when you look at it that way.

The price is affordable to most, but once again its a pointless fee that went up for really no reason at all.

I own a small service business and have monthly customers.. you should see shit hit the fan when I try to raise my monthly service fee $2-5 a month after 7 years of same priced service. Even with the cost of chemicals I use doubling in that time AND the gas price hike, people do not like having anything raised on them and in the real world most will fire me over a price hike.
 

Reynaerdinjo

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SyphonX said:
It really is just a stupid joke.

Virtually everything on Xbox Live is something you have to pay for anyway. Pay for a Gold membership just so I can pay to download DLC for a game I already paid for, on top of already buying the console, on top of already being subscribed to an internet service?

F-ing Microsuck.

No, it's not a "big price issue", it's a common sense "go stuff it" issue.

It would be virtually identical to say.. an Internet browser subscription. Having to pay $5 a month to use Chrome/Internet Explorer/Opera/Insert any browser, on top of your internet fees, just so you can get online to buy more things.

Oh.. wait.. We're already going in that direction!! Oh man I am so psyched!! I would so let Microsoft stomp on my consumerist balls if it pleased them!! Aw yeah man!
You got it right. I really don't get why they would raise the price without at least announcing some staggering new features. This seems such a greedy dickish move and in the end it will only hurt their public image.
 

Ironic Pirate

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Thunderhorse31 said:
Ironic Pirate said:
I kind of like the aesthetic more, but other then the Mii rip-offs I'm not aware of any features the PS3 lacks.
Cross-game party chat
Streaming Netflix sans disk
Netflix parties
Streaming ESPN (soon)
Last.fm
DLC exclusivity (if only for a while, it some cases a LONG while, like GTA IV or Fallout)

I'm sure there's more, but that's just off the top of my head. Basically if you have friends and prefer to keep in touch with them, XBL is miles ahead of PSN. Is the above worth $5 a month though? That's up to you.
Netflix Party? I don't know what the hell that is, but it sounds awesome.
 

Geo Da Sponge

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I can not fathom Microsoft sometimes. It's like they like jerking people around because they enjoy being yelled at, not because they actually have anything to gain. Oh well, it probably won't affect me because:
A) I probably won't be paying for Xbox Live after this year.
B) If I read correctly, the USA is the only area getting the annual price hike and therefore this might not make a difference to annual payments in the UK.
 

Kif

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People not reading articles correctly is always a larger concern to me than the articles themselves. Half the back lash is incorrect, the other half is just stupid... I'll fork out an extra couple of hundred on a PS3 and ditch my Xbox because the extra $1 on XBL is a rip off. Riiiiight, cause that'll work out cost effective.

Anyway, my PS3 owning colleague at work says the PS3 home network is rubbish compared to live.

PCs all the way in my opinion, you still pay (service provider charge) but it's a much more flexible service to get stuff off the Internet.
 

GonzoGamer

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Geekosaurus said:
GonzoGamer said:
Geekosaurus said:
This probably wont change much. People aren't going to boycott XBL over a $10 rise.
It won't be a big exodus or anything but I know at least one guy who's been thinking about canceling gold. This might be the extra push he needs to cut the cord.
It'll probably convince quite a few people to quit. But I had a think about it, and I've come to the conclusion that Microsoft will get back the money from the customers they've lost from those that are willing to the extra. Needless to say, it's not going to cripple XBL.
I'm not worried about them losing money. I'm worried about the xbl population. The annoying thing about this is that the little screechers will still get the expendable income to carry on while most of the people who need a tighter budget (grownups, usually) will be the ones getting rid of it.

The thing is that it really is a better service than psn but not so much better it's worth money on top of what I already pay for my internet utility.

What's surprising is that with all the advertising they do on it, they can't provide it for free.
 

Eclectic Dreck

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IamSofaKingRaw said:
Thats a terrible comparison. If you didn't pay for those things then you would not get those services because no service provider offers them for free.
I can get internet for free if I choose to simply access hotspots or other public resources. I can legally make phone calls for free through any number of mechanisms. The alternatives exist but they are, almost without a doubt, inferior solutions. Thus the example holds true.

IamSofaKingRaw said:
In XBL's case it is a premium service in a market where everyone else provides similar if not better service, FOR FREE.
In a direct comparison, I suppose we ought to look at the three current generation consoles. I can play for free on the Wii certainly but the experience is, to put it kindly, terrible. Sharing friend codes, lack of a universal support for communication and indeed a simple lack of games that support online functionality all contribute to ensure that the online package is of lower value and quality. The PS3 does better, certainly but the frequency of network outages is increased, the interface is kludgey, the VOIP system has less functionality and the user experience varies from game to game. That latter point can of course be a boon as easily as a flaw. Burnout Paradise's multiplayer experience was generally better on the PS3 version because of this in my opinion. Of course, in the case of the PS3, there is also a major initiative at Sony to figure out how to make money out of the deal.

On the PC front, the situation is literally the wild west. There may be no inherent online infrastructure beyond that which the players provide. There may be an extensive infrastructure that is supported for free. There may be an extensive infrastructure that requires a recurring fee to access.

That these experiences are better or worse is of course a matter of perspective. The question of value is much the same. I value a coherent user experience. I value functional, flexible communication options. I value predictable network functionality. That I might be asked to pay for these things when the operation, maintenance and development of said features certainly has an associated cost is neither a surprise nor a point I feel is worthy of contention.

IamSofaKingRaw said:
You might say well the service is worth the money and $60 isn't much" but thats if you get he most out of the service. What if you are a busy person that doesn't find time to play alot/ Paying $60 for someting you don't regularly use is a waste. Especially if you could get a new game with that money. What if you are unemployed and barely have the money to afford to new games?
Let me introduce you to a concept known as a rhetorical fallacy. You are constructing a straw man here by introducing a new element into the value equation. This is not a debate regarding a potential future course of my life circumstances. This is a question of perceived value, something that is inherently variable. I see a value in the service. I have finite resources to expend on things in my life. The value I currently see in the service is great. The resources I have to expend are sufficient that the asking price is inconsequential. You might as well ask "What if I was a trust fund supported lay about" for all the use such a point has in this argument.

IamSofaKingRaw said:
I myself can afford Live but when at a local game store I'd rather use that money towards a game.
That is a choice you are free to make.

IamSofaKingRaw said:
I didn't use most of the service they provided when I had the free trials simply because I turn on my 360/ps3 only to play hames. So for me its not really paying for a service, its paying just t play games online.
Again, your perception of the value of the service is the problem. You have the resources but your interpretation of the value on offer is lower than mine. If you have no access to internet for example, there is no value in the Live service. If you have resolved to never play an online game there is no value in the service. I will not tell you your perspective on the value of a service is incorrect even if it differs from my own.
 

Eclectic Dreck

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Googenstien said:
So, your argument is, in a nutshell, their argument is irrelevant because they're stupid? If your aim is to convince such people to change, I suggest you refrain from the most insulting of fallacies.

IamSofaKingRaw said:
They are when they are the only ones paying for the ability to play a game online where PC and/or PS3 people pay nothing.
In the case of the PS3 you have a reduced feature set. You also have a service with a better feature set that costs money and even then the enhanced feature set has been strangely unappealing to the masses. On the PC front the service and the expectations vary from game to game. There are plenty of games that require a recurring access fee. There are plenty more that are supported through micro-transactions. Then there are also games that are free. There is no unified platform, no standard for service on offer there.

IamSofaKingRaw said:
There are very few true 360 exclusives (meaning no PC too)so the reason why you pay for it really gets pricey when you look at it that way.
Since this is a question about Live, we must examine precisely what the service in question gives me. To put it very simply, it allows me to play a game with other people. Given the cost of maintaining several gaming platforms at once, people often choose a single platform for games these days. This means if a game is available on the PC, PS3 and 360, the debated point lies in their online infrastructure.

To put my logic simply, I value playing with friends more highly than I value playing with strangers. This extends so far that I rarely play a game online unless a friend is present. Thus, we find that I have a bias towards purchasing a game on the system where a friend is most likely going to join me in the game. Given that, of my friends, only a portion of us own PS3's or gaming worth 360's, this generally means I will choose to play on the 360 rather than on the other options.

If it is a game that I will not likely play with friends for whatever reason, my next choice would be the PC. My PS3, as a platform, is only a choice in instances where the game is an exclusive to said platform.

So, if my logic relies on using the 360 because of the presence of friends, the pertinent question might be why so many of my peers chose that particular platform. To put it simply, those of us who could afford many platforms have made the purchase. In some cases, it was the simple result of the 360 being available earlier and, once the fantastically expensive PS3 was released, few saw a reason to make the jump. In other cases it was a result of price comparison where few saw any particular reason to spend more money when the difference in quality of product was not obviously apparent. Yes, there have been significant mechanical problems with the 360 that may, in some cases I imagine, result in someone moving to the PS3 but among my circle of peers the relative inconvenience associated with such things was easily dismissible, perhaps in large part due to the fact that we are all adults with responsibilities and other activities available and the onset of a hardware failure becomes an opportunity to do something different. I can only speak for myself with any certainty however. I didn't mind when my 360 died and I had to wait several weeks for a repair because I had a PC that was more than capable of filling the void, and scholastic and athletic activities that benefited from a sudden increase in available free time.

IamSofaKingRaw said:
The price is affordable to most, but once again its a pointless fee that went up for really no reason at all.
The fee increased because the company providing the service wanted more revenue. This may have been to increase profits, or it may have been to cover increased cost of operation. In either case, the only relevant result of such a move is simple. If the increase in cost results in an increase in revenue, even if it results in a loss of subscribers, the move was beneficial to the company. If it instead results in a loss in revenue, then the move was harmful.

IamSofaKingRaw said:
I own a small service business and have monthly customers.. you should see shit hit the fan when I try to raise my monthly service fee $2-5 a month after 7 years of same priced service. Even with the cost of chemicals I use doubling in that time AND the gas price hike, people do not like having anything raised on them and in the real world most will fire me over a price hike.
By the same token, I work for an IT firm that raised the price of our support by nearly 50%. Yes, there were complaints. Yes some customers dropped our service. But the end result was still an increase in revenue from my department. You, of all people, ought to understand the principles at play here. It is in your interest as a company to find that ideal price where you get the most revenue. That the price may alienate some is irrelevant. You charge what the market will bear.
 

Thunderhorse31

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TheLaofKazi said:
I would rather have no exclusivity and have the DLC released for all platforms at the same time. I don't feel special for having some exclusive games or content.
Yeah I don't really care that much either, but as long as they're dumping millions of dollars on it, it's still something that Microsoft offers over the competition.

Ironic Pirate said:
Netflix Party? I don't know what the hell that is, but it sounds awesome.
You can basically invite friends to watch movies with you online, and all of your avatars sit together and watch, Mystery Science Theater style. It's cool, though I doubt many people do it very often.
 

IamSofaKingRaw

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Eclectic Dreck said:
The PS3 does better, certainly but the frequency of network outages is increased, the interface is kludgey, the VOIP system has less functionality and the user experience varies from game to game. That latter point can of course be a boon as easily as a flaw. Burnout Paradise's multiplayer experience was generally better on the PS3 version because of this in my opinion. Of course, in the case of the PS3, there is also a major initiative at Sony to figure out how to make money out of the deal.
Those are all a matter of rumors and opinion. All of the times PSN has been down I had seen prior to the date on the internet that there would be maintenance. Other than that the only time it had unexpectedly f'd up during my 2 year ownership of the ps3 was during the calendar glitch incident. The PSN store interface is well layed out and easy to use. "Kludgey" is not a word that comes to mind when using it. Maybe I haven't used XBL long enough to see al these features that I seemed to miss during my time with the free trails. The only thing PSN currently lacks thats available on XBL is cross game chat and ESPN whereaa PSN offes MLB.tv and HBO. So the difference really is that you pay for one and don't for the other.
Eclectic Dreck said:
Again, your perception of the value of the service is the problem. You have the resources but your interpretation of the value on offer is lower than mine. If you have no access to internet for example, there is no value in the Live service. If you have resolved to never play an online game there is no value in the service. I will not tell you your perspective on the value of a service is incorrect even if it differs from my own.
I have access to the internet thats why XBL is of no value to me. All the things they offer can be found with a web browser excluding cross game chat (obviously) and the ESPN featue. I'm not saying that it is not a good interface but whether its better than its competition is purely opinion. The reasoning behind Xbox owners having to pay is simply because M$ knows they have no choice unless they own another system or do not want to pay online with friends.
 

Eclectic Dreck

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IamSofaKingRaw said:
Those are all a matter of rumors and opinion.
I believe that once a service has been announced to the world and is available for purchase it moves beyond the realm of speculation and opinion.

IamSofaKingRaw said:
All of the times PSN has been down I had seen prior to the date on the internet that there would be maintenance.
The matter of total uptime is also beyond debate. The 360 leads in this sector as well. That it never impacted you personally is irrelevant to the argumetn.

IamSofaKingRaw said:
The PSN store interface is well layed out and easy to use. "Kludgey" is not a word that comes to mind when using it.
The interface, which consists of menus with menus, where an inexperienced user can spend quite a lot of time looking for an object in the wrong place, is what makes it kludgy. It is an effective but inelegant solution.

IamSofaKingRaw said:
Maybe I haven't used XBL long enough to see al these features that I seemed to miss during my time with the free trails. The only thing PSN currently lacks thats available on XBL is cross game chatand ESPN whereaa PSN offes MLB.tv and HBO. So the difference really is that you pay for one and don't for the other.
That is your perception of value. I will not stand about and say your evaluation of the situation is wrong.

IamSofaKingRaw said:
I have access to the internet thats why XBL is of no value to me.
This statement is nonsense. That means that PSN also has no value. The difference perhaps you were looking for was that the other service that is devoid of value (that is, PSN) is also without a cost passed on to the consumer.

IamSofaKingRaw said:
The reasoning behind Xbox owners having to pay is simply because M$ knows they have no choice unless they own another system or do not want to pay online with friends.
The reason behind such a thing is to generate revenue. To assume for even an instant that XBL is a service that has no associated operating cost is patently silly. Bandwidth costs money. Severs cost money. People to run the servers cost money. Electricity costs money. Space costs money. Development of feature sets require people which also cost money. That people will pay is the reason for a charge. That people will pay is the reason for the support.

Companies that operate on a charity don't often make money. Or did you miss the part where Sony's <a href=http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/fr/09q4_sony.pdf>bottom line is doing poorly? That link goes directly to the consolidated financial statement from Sony that included the numbers from FY 09. I considered a newer version but then I realized that someone may cry foul that such numbers cover traditionally slow months. If you don't want to sort through the numbers, this very publication has run articles on the subject as has every other major gaming site.
 

Chalky991

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I think that Microsoft all ready give people more for their money, if you want to complain about a £1 or $2-3 dollar increase then you need a better job or need to persuade mummy to cough up some more money.

Personally, I am happy with their servers, choices of games on demand and content like Sky player, last.fm, facebook, twitter, Netflix.

If you are not happy enough with this then nothing Microsoft can do will make you happy.

Personally, I think they don't charge enough, might improve the experience of online play some what.