Xbox One Fans create a petition to have Microsoft re-enable the DRM for the Xbox One

[Smeggs]

damage of the used game market

Sorry I cut out the dross.

You do realize the used game market needs to die right? Gamestop gives you about $5-10 back for a new release and sells it for $5 off? That is completely anti-consumerist and needs to end. Blockbuster's days were numbered as soon as the world started moving to digital distribution and Netflix. Gaming should get with the times and move to solely digital distribution as well. AAA titles could drop their prices because they don't need to pay for packaging and distribution anymore. All those people who "can't afford" to buy new could have been spending $40 for a new game instead of $60. Brave new world on the horizon and survey says... no.

It needs to be revamped, not killed off. This whole idea of big companies like Microsoft treating consumers like they don't own the shit they pay for and keep in their own homes is what is truly anti-consumerist. That's like me paying an extra monthly fee for each individual lightbulb in my house on top of my electric bill.

Much like government, the companies should serve the people, not force the people to serve them.

 

[Lightknight]

And thus Microsoft finds a way to eventually reestablish their much hated DRM because a non-trivial number of fans failed to understand that the shared feature was actually a timed demo feature much like PS+ members currently get.

That's assuming the rumor was right, of course. If the feature was to allow family members to actually play the full game contrary to the only information we have that says it's just a timed demo.

In that event, the question becomes whether or not the disk form would be preferable to online form. If I want a friend to borrow a game from me. I hand it to them. If I want to sell it, they give me money. Simple and easy. If they want to borrow it over the internet, we're talking about requiring me to log in every day and for them to have to download the whole game which can take hourse and tens of GBs of space on a 500GB drive that can quickly add up. Anyone know if the HDD on the XBO is still proprietary like last time or can we replace it with real harddrives that don't cost five times as much for the same amount of space like the ps3 and now ps4 allows?

Oh, and selling the game? Pssh.

Couldn't just throw the ring in the fire, could you Isildur?

 

[Rob Moir]

Oh don't worry, EA have great experience with influencing Online polls:

http://www.maxconsole.com/maxcon_forums/showthread.php?187806-Is-EA-using-Origin-to-illegally-sign-anti-gay-bullying-petition

And that's why I will never allow Origin on my Computer.

Hmmm. I wasn't defending anything EA have done. I opted out of their BS some time ago.

 

[Nimzabaat]

damage of the used game market

Sorry I cut out the dross.

You do realize the used game market needs to die right? Gamestop gives you about $5-10 back for a new release and sells it for $5 off? That is completely anti-consumerist and needs to end. Blockbuster's days were numbered as soon as the world started moving to digital distribution and Netflix. Gaming should get with the times and move to solely digital distribution as well. AAA titles could drop their prices because they don't need to pay for packaging and distribution anymore. All those people who "can't afford" to buy new could have been spending $40 for a new game instead of $60. Brave new world on the horizon and survey says... no.

It needs to be revamped, not killed off. This whole idea of big companies like Microsoft treating consumers like they don't own the shit they pay for and keep in their own homes is what is truly anti-consumerist. That's like me paying an extra monthly fee for each individual lightbulb in my house on top of my electric bill.

Much like government, the companies should serve the people, not force the people to serve them.

I see your point but you have to realize that nobody owns world of warcraft (for example), they are licensed to use it, nothing more. The same goes for any MMO, Steam, Origin and many PC games not covered there. It's not a new concept and not as "anti-consumerist" as you would believe. It's just like nobody owns the movies and tv programs on Netflix that they pay a fee to access. I do understand that in the PC community the concept of ownership is much more nebulous than in the console community and any threat to their um... freedom to "access" other peoples "ideas and work" without "paying" must be met with pitchforks and fire. MS was just trying to expand the idea of licensing to being able to "lend" your license to other people. Obviously there were legal issues that involved adding region locking and daily check-ins.

Don't worry about it though, Valve is on it. So you'll love it when it actually happens and you can share Half-Life 3 with your friend on the other side of the country with a click of a button.

 

[White_Lama]

Seeing as I liked the Xbox One from before the whiners got them to remove so many good things I'll gladly sign.

 

[Laser Priest]

You do realize the used game market needs to die right? Gamestop gives you about $5-10 back for a new release and sells it for $5 off? That is completely anti-consumerist and needs to end. Blockbuster's days were numbered as soon as the world started moving to digital distribution and Netflix. Gaming should get with the times and move to solely digital distribution as well. AAA titles could drop their prices because they don't need to pay for packaging and distribution anymore. All those people who "can't afford" to buy new could have been spending $40 for a new game instead of $60. Brave new world on the horizon and survey says... no.

You might almost have a point, if any evidence actually suggested what you said to be true, but I guess facts don't exactly hold much weight here. EA has taken anti-used-games measures and established their own digital distribution system and continues to charge $60 dollars. Clearly you've deluded yourself into the belief that companies will be honorable and charge no more than they reasonably should. Truth is, they've charged $60 dollars for a while and will continue to for one reason: They know they can. Companies like EA and Microsoft don't seem like the kind of companies to take risks. Some other companies offer games at a lower price in the hopes that they'll increase sales this way. They're going to continue charging these prices regardless. And you must not have studied enough of economics or business if you think a company will reduce its prices after ridding itself of the competition.

 

[Nimzabaat]

First of all, I can buy Max Payne 3 at GS for around 20$ used so you are underestimating the saving in used games. Second I like being able to sell games I'm done with, and the inability to do so is one of the biggest problems with Steam. Bought a game, then finished it and don't feel like replaying? well too bad its going to sit in your library forever taking up space. Third if big publishers refuse to lower their prices to compete, what on earth makes you think they will lower their prices if they can force competition out of the market? Hint: they won't. The godawful prices on Xbox live games on demand seems like a fair indicator of what MS does in a market they control. Also lol @ $20 less for a new game somehow being a "brave new world"

Yeah Max Payne is 19.99 new at Best Buy. So... you paid a penny more than retail to buy something used. Congratulations, you are defending the very people who are screwing you.

Oh something you forgot in there. MS still allowed you to sell your license to someone else for whatever the two parties thought was fair. You'd just have to register the sale is all so the game would transfer from your account to the buyers. So unlike Steam and Origin, you could have sold your games once you had played them out.

 

[major_chaos]

Yeah Max Payne is 19.99 new at Best Buy. So... you paid a penny more than retail to buy something used. Congratulations, you are defending the very people who are screwing you.

Oh something you forgot in there. MS still allowed you to sell your license to someone else for whatever the two parties thought was fair. You'd just have to register the sale is all so the game would transfer from your account to the buyers. So unlike Steam and Origin, you could have sold your games once you had played them out.

key word was "around" $20. its 17.99 exactly. Also you say Gamestop is screwing me then tell me to shop at worstbuy? Also what you are describing (assuming it would actually work that way, which is suspect considering your insanely charitable interpretation of Microsoft's motives) sounds far more difficult that the way it works currently. And I never thought I would see the day were someone actually defends the idea of games as "licences" that give permission to play on the goodwill of the publisher instead of actual physical property.

 

[Nimzabaat]

You might almost have a point, if any evidence actually suggested what you said to be true, but I guess facts don't exactly hold much weight here. EA has taken anti-used-games measures and established their own digital distribution system and continues to charge $60 dollars. Clearly you've deluded yourself into the belief that companies will be honorable and charge no more than they reasonably should. Truth is, they've charged $60 dollars for a while and will continue to for one reason: They know they can. Companies like EA and Microsoft don't seem like the kind of companies to take risks. Some other companies offer games at a lower price in the hopes that they'll increase sales this way. They're going to continue charging these prices regardless. And you must not have studied enough of economics or business if you think a company will reduce its prices after ridding itself of the competition.

Actually if you checked xbox live prices you'd see that most of their games sell for less than retail already and have been for years. Not including games that are on sale which are much lower. You should check out the real world some time. I understand that it may take a lot of work to get here, it may even take pills, but it's worth it.

 

[Adam Locking]

I really don't understand why Microsoft has this huge difficulty distinguishing between physical and digital property. Here's a hint guys: one of them you can hold, the other you can't. Why Microsoft couldn't have just kept their always-online, authenticating, no-resale nightmare to digital only and let everyone else play their physical disks as normal?

Heck, even allow the diskless play, but only when online and authenticated. Everyone is happy!

You do realize the used game market needs to die right? Gamestop blah blah blah...

Ebay. Car boot sales. Your argument is invalid.

 

[The_Echo]

Well let's say that you have a friend in New York and you live in Vancouver. If you wanted to lend that friend a game via the PS4/Nintendo system you'd have to drive or fly there to give it to them. On the other hand, being able to send a text like "hey buddy I just got Destiny, i'm not playing it at the moment, try it out" would save you a lot of travel time, not to mention gas money or airfare.

We already have that.

It's called a demo.

Keep in mind that it's such a great idea that Valve is considering it, so obviously there was merit there. It was just a little too high concept for the majority of the PCGMR to figure out, though obviously some people "got it" and are trying the petition route.

Now you just come off as incredibly condescending. We weren't against game sharing in particular. It's a decent idea, and one that didn't need to be taken away along with the DRM. We were against what Microsoft had set the Xbone up to be. Namely, a big ol' "fuck you" to the customer.

I do love how Sony managed to make fun of gamers for being idiots and poke fun at MS for thinking too highly of their customers all at the same time. Double zing!

... What?

 

[Laser Priest]

You might almost have a point, if any evidence actually suggested what you said to be true, but I guess facts don't exactly hold much weight here. EA has taken anti-used-games measures and established their own digital distribution system and continues to charge $60 dollars. Clearly you've deluded yourself into the belief that companies will be honorable and charge no more than they reasonably should. Truth is, they've charged $60 dollars for a while and will continue to for one reason: They know they can. Companies like EA and Microsoft don't seem like the kind of companies to take risks. Some other companies offer games at a lower price in the hopes that they'll increase sales this way. They're going to continue charging these prices regardless. And you must not have studied enough of economics or business if you think a company will reduce its prices after ridding itself of the competition.

Actually if you checked xbox live prices you'd see that most of their games sell for less than retail already and have been for years. Not including games that are on sale which are much lower. You should check out the real world some time. I understand that it may take a lot of work to get here, it may even take pills, but it's worth it.

Well, clearly Microsoft's brainwashing is such an utter success that you have confused Xbox Live with the "real world".

And considering that they generally aren't and that entire little argument you had there is based on a falsehood.

But honestly, if you want Microsoft's garbage console so much, you are welcome to have it. I'm sure both of the people who buy it will have fun.

 

[Nimzabaat]

I really don't understand why Microsoft has this huge difficulty distinguishing between physical and digital property. Here's a hint guys: one of them you can hold, the other you can't. Why Microsoft couldn't have just kept their always-online, authenticating, no-resale nightmare to digital only and let everyone else play their physical disks as normal?

Heck, even allow the diskless play, but only when online and authenticated. Everyone is happy!

You do realize the used game market needs to die right? Gamestop blah blah blah...

Ebay. Car boot sales. Your argument is invalid.

Neither of those things would have been affected. Well Okay they would have been affected but in a positive way. You'd be able ebay/kijiji whatever the code for the game and skip the shipping charges. Just so you know.

Captcha: miles to go (I know Captcha, I know)

 

[Anthony Corrigan]

Wow, "using a disk is the most restrictive DRM", just wow. Having a disk means I can play anytime I want, with or without Internet, I can do it today or in 100 years when Microsoft has shut down, I don't need to ask anyone's permission, I can play the way I want. That's not restriction that's freedom, is a book restricting? No it's the freedom to read where and when I want

And as for giving Microsoft, (the company who spent so much time trying to use its monopoly on windows to screw everyone that the government was talking about breaking the company up) a monopoly on all games, your joking. There is only one person that would be good for, the CEO of Microsoft

 

[Laser Priest]

Wow, "using a disk is the most restrictive DRM", just wow. Having a disk means I can play anytime I want, with or without Internet, I can do it today or in 100 years when Microsoft has shut down, I don't need to ask anyone's permission, I can play the way I want. That's not restriction that's freedom, is a book restricting? No it's the freedom to read where and when I want

And as for giving Microsoft, (the company who spent so much time trying to use its monopoly on windows to screw everyone that the government was talking about breaking the company up) a monopoly on all games, your joking. There is only one person that would be good for, the CEO of Microsoft

But then if you'd want to share with your friends who are in another country for some reason, you'd have to use postage instead of buying a several hundred dollar console and paying for internet! It's totally restricting your right to give money to Microsoft.

 

[Anthony Corrigan]

Actually the postal service is much more reliable than the Internet is and the joke in all this is if Microsoft had got there way you COULDN't share with people in other countries because it was region locked. Not to mention the limited number of countries it was going to be available in in the first place

 

[Adam Locking]

Neither of those things would have been affected. Well Okay they would have been affected but in a positive way. You'd be able ebay/kijiji whatever the code for the game and skip the shipping charges. Just so you know.

Microsoft specifically said you couldn't (games could only be sold via "participating retailers" (whatever the fuck that means). I suppose I could set up an ebay auction, then mail the winner my user name, have him add me as a friend on Live then wait a full month to transfer the game to him, but that'd be just fucking stupid. Show me a quote from Microsoft that says ANYTHING about codes and free transfers.

 

[Haefulz]

We want family game sharing.

You mean the glorified demos [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.819460-Poll-Heartbroken-Microsoft-Employee-Explains-How-Family-Sharing-Would-Have-Worked]?

I'm about 95% sure that was fake. Posted by an anonymous user on an obscure website. I'm not going to argue the rest of your post, but I'd bet that the Family Sharing feature would have allowed full game sharing.

 

[Miss G.]

We want family game sharing.

You mean the glorified demos [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.819460-Poll-Heartbroken-Microsoft-Employee-Explains-How-Family-Sharing-Would-Have-Worked]?

I'm about 95% sure that was fake. Posted by an anonymous user on an obscure website. I'm not going to argue the rest of your post, but I'd bet that the Family Sharing feature would have allowed full game sharing.

Why would publishers so intent on killing the used games market turn around and let up to nine people play a full game for free, though? A timed demo actually makes sense and they don't even like wasting resources on those. Also, like others have pointed out in other threads, if this feature was as good as defenders keep throwing in people's faces, why didn't Microsoft play it up as an advantage and actually say what it was supposed to do in a CLEAR format? Why get rid of it when it wasn't a point of contention? Seems right to think it was just a buzzword and dropping it along with their other policies was just an excuse to guilt people for 'forcing' them to get rid of the only 'real' plus they had going. Spoilt brats indeed.

 

[Saltyk]

We want family game sharing.

You mean the glorified demos [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.819460-Poll-Heartbroken-Microsoft-Employee-Explains-How-Family-Sharing-Would-Have-Worked]?

I'm about 95% sure that was fake. Posted by an anonymous user on an obscure website. I'm not going to argue the rest of your post, but I'd bet that the Family Sharing feature would have allowed full game sharing.

Why would publishers so intent on killing the used games market turn around and let up to nine people play a full game for free, though? A timed demo actually makes sense and they don't even like wasting resources on those. Also, like others have pointed out in other threads, if this feature was as good as defenders keep throwing in people's faces, why didn't Microsoft play it up as an advantage and actually say what it was supposed to do in a CLEAR format? Why get rid of it when it wasn't a point of contention? Seems right to think it was just a buzzword and dropping it along with their other policies was just an excuse to guilt people for 'forcing' them to get rid of the only 'real' plus they had going. Spoilt brats indeed.

I agree 100%. I seriously doubt they were going to let you share games with 10 people with zero restrictions. To do that, and then say in the next breath how used games are killing the industry (and support that with their deeds in the form of DRM) is insane. Sharing full games with 10 people is worse than the used game market could ever be. Even in their imaginations. I don't believe the Family Sharing was half as good as people imagine. And Microsoft's DRM stance, and statements that it would "be good for gamers", proves that.