XboxONE Criticisms...System, Gamers, and Media

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ToastiestZombie

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Mar 21, 2011
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Brockyman said:
What if you just don't want a Kinect? The Kinect is required for the thing to work, and many of its new features do not sit well with a lot of people and a lot of EU laws. Basically it tracks your emotions, tracks your heartbeat, has an in-built microphone that can't be turned off and it can see in the dark. A lot of people don't want a camera straight out of 1984 that Microsoft could use to watch you in their homes. I personally don't want the kinect nor do I feel the need for any sort of hand gestures or voice commands, it isn't the actual controller like the Wii or Wii U so I can't see why they can't just pack it in and let you turn it off.
 

Dryk

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Dec 4, 2011
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Brockyman said:
Plus I personally think the feature where you could switch effortlessly between a blu ray, tv, game, ect without your TV remote or inputs is interesting.
Is it worth the massive overhead of the GPU running three layers at all times though? Are all those apps worth being 2Gb of unified RAM behind your competitor when they already have a huge edge in memory bandwidth and a slight edge in processor speed?

Not to mention that for people outside of the US all those system resources are locked away with little to no benefit because they have no idea when they'll be able to get the features even working there. And that's if you even live in a country with a high penetration of HDMI.
 

Ed130 The Vanguard

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Sep 10, 2008
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Cooperblack said:


Not made by me, But awesome.
Is that from Neogaff?

Also: If you want a 1984 two-way Telescreen in your living room fine, just don't expect everyone else to simply bend over and take it as well.
 

McMindflayer

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Jan 24, 2008
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So I brought this up before, but I'll say it here too. The ability to "1984" as it were is nigh impossible with the tech we have now. Not because they can't watch your every move, because they probably could. But more in that there are going to be Millions upon millions of people 5+hours everyday in front of their Kinect. conversations and videos. the amount of processing power required to watch and listen to and compare that to what is on your tv screen for 5 hours for MILLIONS of people is waaaaaay higher than any supercomputer, let alone collate it into a system for them to use as for whatever nefarious deeds they need.

I guess they can compile a list of people who said "Mountain dew" more than 10 times a day and then look up all the times they were talking about mountain dew... and then do... something. It's really not useful to know what you are doing and talking about.




Also, I'm confused as to the majority of the complaints the Xbox one is recieving.

They didn't show any games: It's an X-box. It'll play games. It'll do it at some of the best graphics around. Graphic engines nowadays are so high tech that the only difference between them is how much they can render in great quality at one time. Not that big a bloody deal. I still can't tell the difference between the 360 and the PS3.

It does everything my smart tv does: Does anyone else not see sci-fi when they see it? I'm sorry, but I have been watching sc-fi movies for most of my life. And in those movies they invariably have a whole house that is controlled by your voice. this is the idea sci-fi writers have had for the longest time. That in the future, you can come home, say "lights" and your lights turn on. to say "TV" and your TV turns on. How are we not excited for something that literally does everyhting our computer and tv does but at voice command? I know it's not a hover board but come on people! The future is here!
(To be fair on this point, I do get that we have been burned in the past by shitty voice command and gesture software, so I do understand caution, but to say it's dumb for having it is a bit much.)

Also, using your remote versus using voice.
Remote on smart tv for netflix: power button, menu button, down, down, select, select search. Select M, scroll, select y, scroll, select space, scroll, select l....
Xbox one: remote power button as you say Xbox on; "Xbox, netflix";"search My little Pony"; "select, play".

It just seems massively easier.

Combining interenet and games.
Now:
"Shit, where the hell is the guy who gave me that quest. I can't remember where he is." Puts down controller, grabs phone, goes online to find information about game
Xbox one:
"Xbox, Snap internet" "Search {game}" Still playing and wandering around looking for the guy as you are saying this.


edit:
Also, about backwards compatability
If you think that including backwards compatability is easy, please find your old windows 98 games like 7th Guest or "Where in the world is Carmen Sandiego" or what not, and install and play them without any problems on your window's 7. and it has backwards compatability.
Also, the xbox 360 didn't have backwards compatability when it came out. It garnered a shitstorm about it too. Xbox 360 is still a system that rivals PS3.


I do see legitimate complaints, and I will not be buying the Xbox one because of these complaints.
Always online DRM
No used games

Neither of these problems affect me. All the games I buy are new and I have high speed interenet. I just don't want ot give me money to a corporation that thinks it can do this BS to it's consumers and still make a profit.
 

Denamic

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Aug 19, 2009
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Total LOLige said:
Thanks, I've never seen Se7en but now I know Brad Pitt shoots Kevin Spacey. Se7en might be nearly 18 years old but it still needs to be spoilered. Even if that gif was hilarious.
It didn't even register that it was Se7en to me until you mentioned it. Ironically, you spoiled it more than he did.
 
Apr 28, 2008
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Brockyman said:
I really don't know where to start... I'll just jump in with things I saw and hated from across the board

"They didn't show any games" - Gamers and Media
Well, if you follow the media enough to know this event happened, you know that Microsoft stated that E3 (you know the GAME EXPO) was going to be the showcase of the game content. It wasn't a surprise! This was the unveil and showing the audience the other things it can do with movies, tv, skype, ect.
That didn't stop Sony from showing and announcing games.

"TV, TV, TV, TV, TV, TV.....We don't/care about this stuff" - Gamers and Media
They have to show these features to market to the wider audience. Families that may can only afford one console may like the media integration when making the purchasing decision. The PS4 doesn't seem to do all this and the Wii U is a joke. Moms, Dads, Boyfriend/Girlfriends or husbands/wives that don't play games also have something for them. I also liked the features to quickly change from a game to a movie, the fact it can save where I left off kind of like the iPad or iPhone does, run multiple apps, and that I can watch TV or skype while waiting for an online match.

Gamers with the "entitlement mentality" seem to hate inclusion of casual people. We saw it with the Wii. All we needed was someone to make fun of a woman or a homosexual and the worst of gaming would have been displayed all at once.
That wider audience owns tv's and I doubt would want to buy an xbox to watch tv's and movies when they could just do that on the tv's they have now. Also, what about the world outside of the US? Chances are all these awesome tv features won't be supported for them. They won't be buying an Xbox One to watch tv or movies, they have plenty of other devices that do that already.

Gamers do seem to have problems with not being complete pricks though. Well some do, anyway. We could all do well with calming down a bit and not being completely horrible to others.

"Always online" - Gamers and Media.... and Microsoft for not making clear
First off, my personal opinions is that it shouldn't be always online. Not everyone has awesome internet available and DRM sucks (I'll get to that later)

There really isn't a solid answer to this question yet, so it seems there is a lot of anger with no substance. Some Microsoft reps have said its not always on, and some have said it checks in every 24 hours. However both of these answers are still better then what we had feared. It WON'T have to be always online to play games. The 24 hour check could be to check for firmware updates and such...It wasn't laid out that it "had to check in to work". Let's wait and see before getting all pissed off.
So like the Spore DRM, but worse? No thanks.

"You have to plug in the Kinect" - Gamers
So......freakin....what?! This is the weakest, stupidest criticism of the day. It comes with it! You don't have to buy anything extra. You don't need the whole living room anymore AND the voice controls are cool feature. Grow up and stop bitching
It's another thing to keep track of. Not a big deal, I agree, but a pointless addon which will cause more harm than good. There have been plenty of reports from people watching the stream from their 360 about it cutting out when the Microsoft guys said "xbox-off". It only takes one jackass in a game to say "xbox-off!" and kick everyone out of a game. Might not be a big problem

"Pre Played Fees and Installs" - Mircrosoft
This is the area Microsoft really really really screwed up the most! I understand the underlying point that once you install the game on the system, the disc isn't needed, and they want to prevent people from buying once copy and handing it off to 50 people for free. That makes sense... and if someone did that it would be piracy.
However, the issue is that people who may want to borrow a game from a friend, rent it or buy it used.
Honestly, all they need to do is follow the what it does with games installs already! IT REQUIRES THE DISC TO PLAY!!! Easy. Freakin. Fix! This way the used game and rental market is safe.
I know the first comment will be "its to kill the used game market", and honestly, it may be. I'm sure EA and other publishers and developers are pushing for it. Microsoft needs to tell them no. Plain as day.
I remember when with console gaming, all you had to do to play was put the disk in. No updates, no installs, no sign-ins, no nothing. It was beautifully simple.

And it would not be piracy. If it was piracy, one person buys the game, thousands of people get to play at once. Wheras with used games, one person gets the game, one person plays for however long they own it and nobody else gets to, then they pass it on and can't play it anymore. I'm sick of people, developers/publishers and gamers alike, trying to compare the two and call them the same.[/quote]
 

Athefist

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Nov 10, 2008
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Looks like I'll be hanging on to my 60gb PS3 another generation. I was really hoping this new Xbox was going to be my next console, but no way. Are we supposed to view games as disposable between generations? If we are, then they better start selling them at disposable prices. I happen to really enjoy my game library, and pull old titles out all the time to replay.
 

Zeh Don

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Jul 27, 2008
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Brockyman said:
...Someone made this graphic about 24 hours after the debut, with a lot of speculation. A lot can/will change between now and when its released. If its launched, and these things are still part of it, then let the griping commence and DON'T BUY IT. But let's wait and see. Get the facts first. If we don't like it, act like mature adults and let Microsoft know in a civil way we don't like this, and they will either change or we won't buy it...
While I appreciate the call for modesty in the reactions, this doesn't come across as calm and collected as I'm sure you meant it to be. The main reason is that you're asking the wrong people for the wrong attitude. Gamers are a hostile bunch of immature people. This is a well known and documented fact. Yet, it's not gamers who are causing the issues here.

Microsoft televised a global live reveal event to introduce the entire world to their new console. First impressions count. Microsoft certainly know this - the reveal of the console is where you lay down the foundation and show what the new console is all about. It gets people interested and excited. Everything after the reveal builds on what was shown in the reveal.
Microsoft chose their own private global live televised reveal to show off virtually nothing to do with the primary reason for the console to exist or anyone to buy it. That's not how you get your audience - enthusiast gamers and game journalists - excited. It's how you incite the mob.
People aren't going to buy it primarily for it's TV features. It's that simple. The games and only the games justify the console's existence, with everything else being additional features to supplement the primary purpose. And yet games were nearly entirely absent from the proceedings.
If games were high on their list of priorities, it would be reflected during it's reveal. Every other console reveal in history has done this - save for the PS3, and that had one of the worst console launches of all time. Instead, games were a dot point on a list - an out of focus tile on a Metro UI.

Asking gamers to wait three weeks for the reveal information isn't acceptable. They had their reveal event. They had their big round-table discussion for journalists. Nearly every question was met with "We're not talking about that yet." If they're not showing games, why did they reveal their games console? If they're not talking, why did they have a live reveal event that is held specifically to get people talking?

Microsoft made the mistake of thinking their audience were slack-jawed dubeBros and idiots who'd swallow whatever they unveiled without any questions. Quite literally, evidently. So, the human response is to generate your own answer from known information. The less information, the more varied the answers. And now that's happening.
It's Microsoft's fault. And it doesn't bode well if they can't even reveal the console without inciting the internet's rage through no one's fault but their own. They're so disconnected that they thought no one would ask logical questions about the very things they themselves revealed. Take a moment and understand that.
 

Sombra Negra

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Nov 4, 2008
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surely not wanting the kinect is kind of the opposite of entitlement? like, they're forcing us to use it rather than us forcing (or trying to force) them to give it us?

and my main gripe with the kinect is that it could potentially help enforce these ridiculous mandates from microsoft about used games, by attaching a face to a name it could prevent someone from using your account, or a game you're not 'entitled' to be able to play.

additionally, the fact that it can sense your heartbeat freaking creeps me out. and the fact that it's coupled with what may or may not be an always online connection is quite disturbing - what's stopping it from streaming you, live, to the microsoft execs to laugh at, or profit from with the weird voyeur demographic? it amounts to having your webcam constantly on and having it able to be accessed at any time. there is a subculture of hackers that try to achieve similar goals, so having microsoft doing half their work for them just doesn't sound like a good idea personally.

and briefly, the rest:

the fact that microsoft is trying to sell you a middleman between your tv and your sky box (or whatever) is ridiculous and stupid in my opinion. if you want to watch tv then... watch tv? you're sitting in front of one if you're playing with an xbone.

the lack of games and backwards compatibility worries me. if a pc can run old games, including old 360 games that have been ported, and the xbone is based on newer pc architecture, why can't it run old 360 games? (more of an actual, technical question that i'd quite like answered)

call of duty has a dog. its death will be a harder blow than both the american and the brit 'surprises' in cod 4.

i'm skipping this gen, from my research my current pc is more powerful than the proposed xbone specs and the ps4, and i have no reason to want the other pointless fluff from microsoft's new 'home entertainment system' (it ain't a console any more). i've never really been a ps3/4 lad either tbh, but that seems less overtly evil than the xbone at least.
 

SonicWaffle

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Oct 14, 2009
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Brockyman said:
I welcome thoughts and comments. Please keep it mature. I respect the opinions of everyone (with a brain).
You seem to be very defensive of something that is widely being cited throughout the industry as a major blunder. Ostensibly a dedicated gaming machine revealed with only miniscule emphasis on games? Open mouth, insert foot. "Wait for E3!" is not an acceptable excuse, because the primary function of the machine, and the primary reason to buy the machine, is video games. Showing that they don't really value that core market enough to target the presentation to them is a pretty bad sign. It's nothing to do with elitism, entitlement or hating on The Dirty Casuals. It has everything to do with a product which is being marketed towards a demographic yet doesn't actually consider what that demographic wants from their product.

The presence of Kinect is another negative. Because it is there, developers are going to feel obliged - or, worst case scenario, be directly pressured - to integrate it into games where the inclusion is only going to be detrimental. People don't want that. We want a console we can just play games on, like a normal person, without having to wave our arms or have a conversation with the device. You're right, there are going to be people who like the idea. In which case it should be an optional extra for them as it was this current generation rather than insisting on Kinect integration for every machine and jacking up the price for the entire range to absorb the cost. The burger/dog turd analogy earlier mentioned is actually quite a good one: some people might like a dog turd on their burger, and if that's their bag, more power to them. I don't want a dog turd on my burger, and I resent having to pay extra for one that I don't have the option to remove.

I don't even think I want to understand the logic behind the pay-to-play preowned business. I was discussing it with a couple of gamer friends yesterday, and it turned out that the last games we actually bought brand-new were, respectively, two Skyrim and a Mass Effect 3. Now this had nothing to do with the lack of games we wanted to play, and everything to do with the fact that we're all (as are many of the console's target demographic) reasonably young middle income earners. We buy preowned because we can afford preowned, whereas the exorbitant price of brand-new games restricts us to just a few titles a year since we also have to pay rent, bills, eat etc. The conversation at Microsoft HQ apparently went;

"Consumers are buying intelligently and giving preference to cheaper second-hand games during this time of economic woe."
"Huh. You think maybe we price people out of buying our products?"
"No, that's silly. They're probably just evil pirates, out to destroy our business."
"Oh, yeah, I guess you're right. How about we make them pay equivalent money every time they borrow, rent or buy a pre-owned game?"
"BRILLIANT! That's sure to conjure up money they don't actually have from the aether and into our bank accounts!"

All told, I genuinely thought my brand loyalty to Xbox was going to get me through this console generation, but after this flop it's looking seriously doubtful. I don't think they're going to re-tool the device entirely before launch, so I'm stuck with either the crappy, crappy Playstation controller (and the many other problems of the PS4), upgrading a (urgh) PC to play games on, or just skipping the generation entirely.
 

Nyaliva

euclideanInsomniac
Sep 9, 2010
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So here goes with my ideas about each point made by the OP.
Brockyman said:
"They didn't show any games" - Gamers and Media
Well, if you follow the media enough to know this event happened, you know that Microsoft stated that E3 (you know the GAME EXPO) was going to be the showcase of the game content. It wasn't a surprise! This was the unveil and showing the audience the other things it can do with movies, tv, skype, ect.
This is a good point and why it never bothered me that they didn't show any games. It's almost like they're doing the opposite of what Sony are doing, instead of getting people excited by the premise of the system and the games all being shown together, they're showing the system now and using that to get people excited about the games that they'll show.

"TV, TV, TV, TV, TV, TV.....We don't/care about this stuff" - Gamers and Media
They have to show these features to market to the wider audience. Families that may can only afford one console may like the media integration when making the purchasing decision. The PS4 doesn't seem to do all this and the Wii U is a joke. Moms, Dads, Boyfriend/Girlfriends or husbands/wives that don't play games also have something for them. I also liked the features to quickly change from a game to a movie, the fact it can save where I left off kind of like the iPad or iPhone does, run multiple apps, and that I can watch TV or skype while waiting for an online match.
Gamers with the "entitlement mentality" seem to hate inclusion of casual people. We saw it with the Wii. All we needed was someone to make fun of a woman or a homosexual and the worst of gaming would have been displayed all at once.
This I never saw as being about casual gamers infiltrating the Xbox but more about Microsoft using a CONSOLE to sell a TV SYSTEM which, at best, sounds silly, and at worst, spells bad news down the track. The fear is that Microsoft will eventually get sick of making games and live off the money they get from people using their xboxes for cable. Not to mention, it's the paranoid friend argument: by trying to cater to a new demographic, gamers feel like Microsoft is saying their time, love and money aren't enough so Microsoft have to find more friends to fill the void. This also leads to the aforementioned fear that Microsoft will ditch them completely.

The "families who can only afford one console" argument is invalid though because despite having cable on the Xbox, you still have to pay for the cable, pay Microsoft for using the cable on the Xbox and pay Xbox live subscription fees. All in all, this seems like it will be the most expensive console ever based solely on the ongoing charges.


"Always online" - Gamers and Media.... and Microsoft for not making clear
First off, my personal opinions is that it shouldn't be always online. Not everyone has awesome internet available and DRM sucks (I'll get to that later)

There really isn't a solid answer to this question yet, so it seems there is a lot of anger with no substance. Some Microsoft reps have said its not always on, and some have said it checks in every 24 hours. However both of these answers are still better then what we had feared. It WON'T have to be always online to play games. The 24 hour check could be to check for firmware updates and such...It wasn't laid out that it "had to check in to work". Let's wait and see before getting all pissed off.
Even if it's just checking in every 24 hours for updates, it's a waste of processing power and if you want to play while it's updating, time as well. Why not check in once a week? I agree we'll have to wait and see what EXACTLY this is, and not just another off-hand comment by a Microsoft executive. But, if it HAS to log in every 24 hours, it'll alienate everyone with a flimsy internet connection. I have a pretty good cable connection with wireless that can reach anywhere in the house and a little while ago, I had problems for two days that just randomly fixed themselves. My friend recently moved and he's been told that his internet will be hooked up in about 2 weeks for the past 2 months. Internet isn't so accessible as Microsoft seem to think just yet and making it a requirement will do nothing but alienate customers.

"You have to plug in the Kinect" - Gamers
So......freakin....what?! This is the weakest, stupidest criticism of the day. It comes with it! You don't have to buy anything extra. You don't need the whole living room anymore AND the voice controls are cool feature. Grow up and stop bitching
While I do think this is pretty bitchy, it also smacks too much of Microsoft trying to push technology that people don't want. It's like they're trying to forcibly prove that it's not as crap as it used to be and people just don't want to hear it anymore. If you can control everything with either the controller OR Kinect, then it won't be a problem but I don't want it pushed in my face any closer than it requires to detect me properly. The Kinect may be the future but it won't be the future of gaming.

"Pre Played Fees and Installs" - Mircrosoft
This is the area Microsoft really really really screwed up the most! I understand the underlying point that once you install the game on the system, the disc isn't needed, and they want to prevent people from buying once copy and handing it off to 50 people for free. That makes sense... and if someone did that it would be piracy.
However, the issue is that people who may want to borrow a game from a friend, rent it or buy it used.
Honestly, all they need to do is follow the what it does with games installs already! IT REQUIRES THE DISC TO PLAY!!! Easy. Freakin. Fix! This way the used game and rental market is safe.
I know the first comment will be "its to kill the used game market", and honestly, it may be. I'm sure EA and other publishers and developers are pushing for it. Microsoft needs to tell them no. Plain as day.
Yeah, they should but they won't because not only are they getting more money from publishers than they are from used game sales (ie millions compared to 0), but with the system they'll have set up, they'll have basically BOUGHT the used game market. The disc becomes worth as much as a CD and if you want the game you have to pay MICROSOFT for a copy. If they put this price at used game prices, they essentially become Gamestop and Gamestop essentially starts selling boxes with discs in them that ALLOW people to THEN buy a used game. It's fantastically ingenious but so devious and greedy that it feels like Microsoft is creating a monopoly on it.

Here's my two cents: My first impression was that the Xbox One was so obviously trying to cash in on everything and restrict people's freedoms that I was hoping people would not buy it and send a message to Microsoft, namely that pushing aside one consumer base to try and get more money from another will only result in a reduction in profits overall. I hoped that people would ignore the Xbox One, Microsoft would lose out and have to rethink it's strategies, and I still do hope that happens. Unfortunately, because everything ISN'T as bad as that, I'm afraid that people will just accept it and we'll move one step closer to a time when the gaming industry is controlled by the publishers and we just have to accept it. I don't think we're terribly close, but that doesn't mean we don't have to watch what we do now to ensure we don't get close further down the line. But, as the OP said, we should wait until E3 to fully condemn or praise the Xbox One, but at this stage it will either have to reconcile every bad thing it has going for it or release the best game ever in order to sway me.
 

ExileNZ

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Brockyman said:
Knitting sucks
You take that back, Sir!

Seriously though, screw the hats - I never got into TF2 and I never plan to. They managed to make the one version of 2-Fort I have ever played (in every version since the original for the first Quake and including a lot of fan-made attempts) that I did not like.

Back on topic though, don't undercut the importance of sales. That is a huge selling point of Steam, plus their once-per-week (or is it 3 weeks?) online check is a far, far cry from once-per-day. Don't debase Steam's real strong-points by reducing them to hats. You're not even comparing apples and oranges, you're comparing apples and peanuts. They're nothing alike and have a totally different appeal to different people for different reasons.
 

purf

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You can all give me your Kinects then![footnote]Won't work, I know[/footnote]

A new Xbox? Here's the rat's ass I don't give about: ·
This technology [www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi5kMNfgDS4] in my hands? Hell, yes! Yesterday, please!
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
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Brockyman said:
"They didn't show any games" - Gamers and Media
Well, if you follow the media enough to know this event happened, you know that Microsoft stated that E3 (you know the GAME EXPO) was going to be the showcase of the game content. It wasn't a surprise! This was the unveil and showing the audience the other things it can do with movies, tv, skype, ect.
You know, if you're not going to show off games for your game system, don't make this the big reveal. They could have done it at E3, and even hyped the other stuff, too. They could have held the TV conference later than it. This is still gaming's first intro to the One, and it looks bad.

Gamers with the "entitlement mentality" seem to hate inclusion of casual people.
You're arguing two different things here. It's one thing to ***** that the filthy casuals get included, but another to be concerned that it's taking center stage over everything else....Games included.

I'd also contend that a Cable Box pass-through for an HDMI-only console might not be the best fit for most families.

The 24 hour check could be to check for firmware updates and such...
It could be, but it falls to Microsoft to make this clear. This is kind of important.

It comes with it! You don't have to buy anything extra.
Microsoft has to pay to manufacture them. Costs are included in the final price of the unit. You're paying extra out of the box. That's why it's a problem. The forced inclusion increases the price of the unit, at a time where they're justifying other features being removed as cost-cutting.


I welcome thoughts and comments. Please keep it mature. I respect the opinions of everyone (with a brain).
That last sentence seems like a bad way to invite mature discussion.
 

KarmaTheAlligator

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Mar 2, 2011
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Brockyman said:
I really don't know where to start... I'll just jump in with things I saw and hated from across the board

"They didn't show any games" - Gamers and Media
Well, if you follow the media enough to know this event happened, you know that Microsoft stated that E3 (you know the GAME EXPO) was going to be the showcase of the game content. It wasn't a surprise! This was the unveil and showing the audience the other things it can do with movies, tv, skype, ect.

"TV, TV, TV, TV, TV, TV.....We don't/care about this stuff" - Gamers and Media
They have to show these features to market to the wider audience. Families that may can only afford one console may like the media integration when making the purchasing decision. The PS4 doesn't seem to do all this and the Wii U is a joke. Moms, Dads, Boyfriend/Girlfriends or husbands/wives that don't play games also have something for them. I also liked the features to quickly change from a game to a movie, the fact it can save where I left off kind of like the iPad or iPhone does, run multiple apps, and that I can watch TV or skype while waiting for an online match.
There's a huge problem with this: if they wanted to wait for E3 to unveil their games, why didn't they wait until then for the console reveal? They should have known that gamers would only be interested in the games aspect of a console, and let's be honest, the XBox is supposed to be a console with extra bits. Except now it's the opposite, it's become an entertainment hub that happens to play games. Gamers were the people waiting for the reveal, not their families who had no interest in a console in the first place, and they got nothing of interest out of it. And considering the backlash MS is getting for that after just one day, I doubt people will be more accommodating after 18 more. At that point, it doesn't matter much what exclusive they have and such, it'll be too little too late.

As for the always on Kinect, my friend put it that way: "After a hard day at work, I just want to slump on the couch and play games to relax, I don't want to have to act like a monkey to get anywhere".
It's not about the fact that it would cost extra or anything, since like you said, it's included, it's the fact that having it mandatory will make developers add stupid features in their games to use it. No peripheral of the kind should ever be mandatory.
 

FoolKiller

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My problem is the tiny hard drive. I currently own way more games than could fit on such a small device. And as usual, they will be charging exhorbitant rates for anything bigger.

The used game fee is ridiculous. Its charging twice for the same pie.

And what if someone lends a disc out and that person unknowingly activates it (lets call these ignorant parents or something). Now you get your game back and you have to pay to use it again? wtf?