You can't hit me, you're the woman!

[eelaypuff]

Instead of discussing women abusing or raping men, or vice versa, why don't we try to make it so no one abuses or rapes anyone at all, be it man or woman.

 

[Disaster Button]

The only way to change it is to remove "rape" and "domestic violence" from the English language, then everyone will be equal.

What about "salary", "opening doors", "parental rights" and "opinion"?

You (sort of) may have a point with salary and opening doors (glass ceiling, etc.) but parental rights? Do you realize how heavily the courts are slanted in favor of the mother? After observing my housemate and his ex's travels through the court system and how the court treated him like a cash dispenser until he managed to pay everything asked of him and then some? Thankfully he got a good judge, who realized quickly that the ex wasn't doing the things she said she was going to do (like get a job) while the housemate was working overtime to provide for his kid.

What do you even mean by "opinion?"

The point I was making, albeit not directly, was that courts are often unfairly slanted towards siding with the mother.

And by opinion I meant that the same opinion given by a man or woman may be treated differently if given by the opposite gender.

 

[Asturiel]

It's a nice little anecdote about how much bullshit this attitude is causing. I just held a door to my dorm open for a girl who was carrying two cases of moutain dew. You know, to be nice because she would have to adjust them in her arms and it was really cold outside. I didn't think about the fact that she was a girl, I did it because it was a nice thing to do which I would be very grateful if anyone did that for me.
I kind of hope she didn't think I was doing it just because of the two boobs staring at me.

I do that all the time to everybody, just a nice thing to do. People saying that you do it just because the person doesnt have a Y chromosome may be right sometimes but most other times there just being a douche.

I agree with what you said in the OP. If you've seen a woman hit a man, it shows that she's not the "weak female stereotype" and is now flag for PvP... wait...

Heheheheh, I see what you did there!

A little of both. I can't hit a woman in good conscience, I can hit a man. I was just raised never to hit girls and it kind of stuck. Doesn't mean I think it's right, I was just too well conditioned.

Me too, I want to say I can punch a girl in a face, but unless it's more of a manly look I just cant. Ill yell scream at ya and maybe knock you down, but never actually hit you. Stupid chivalrous upbringing rawr!

Amen. I knew a girl once (the only girl of this type I've never known) who truly understood that equality meant that chivalry had to end and that girls should be able to be hit if, under the same conditions, men would be hit. She was great.

Holy crap, thats a keeper!

 

[ribonuge]

Yeah I mean why don't they have men advertising on make-up ads. Oh wait.

Nah I completely agree with you on this one. It seems that stigmas pop up from every which way no matter how hard you try to prevent them.

 

[BGH122]

Man (the species, NOT the gender)feel that something is "likely" or "realistic" not when it matches the facts, but when it matches their expactations. And when hearing about domestic abuse, what the average person expects is the drunk, frustradted sadistic man, beating his hard-working-in-the-household wife, scaring the children and killing the dog. This may be right, as much as it may be wrong, but as long as that's what people expect, thats what we will get in movies / adverts / campaigns.

Yeah, this. We look to our messed up stereotypes, our heuristics that guide our thoughts, to see whether we agree with something rather than make a fresh run at a particular issue every time it's aired. This leads to lazy thought in which the few examples of a particular issue (the media representation of domestic violence) forms the backbone of our subjective reality.

Amen. I knew a girl once (the only girl of this type I've never known) who truly understood that equality meant that chivalry had to end and that girls should be able to be hit if, under the same conditions, men would be hit. She was great.

Holy crap, thats a keeper!

She really was. She was gorgeous too and I was stupid enough to let her go.

...

Not that I intend to mean that I 'owned' her.

 

[SnipErlite]

Because it's wrong to hit women, it's ok to hit men.

A woman hits me I hit back. They started the fight with the type of human better built for it so bring it! Hey I treat everybody equally man. You know "equality" that thing that means you cant use anything you cant control as an excuse?

Nice one, so do i. Someone hits me they'll get it right back no matter of gender

Some of the stereotypes really do bug me though...ah well, such is life

 

[Disaster Button]

The only way to change it is to remove "rape" and "domestic violence" from the English language, then everyone will be equal.

What about "salary", "opening doors", "parental rights" and "opinion"?

Actually, consistently, salary has been shown to be a non-issue. Women go for lower paying, cushier jobs than men (not just bullshitting: here [http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/08_17/b4081104183847.htm] and here [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Farrell#Why_Men_Earn_More]). It's yet another feminist lie, like the fun ol' feminist lie that domestic violence increases over the super bowl [http://www.snopes.com/crime/statistics/superbowl.asp].

...

Okay, I'm starting to sound like a rabid male rights activist now. Although everything I've stated is true.

EDIT: I'd also like to see abortion laws revised so that women need the father's consent to abort the baby; it takes two to make a child and we're both parents.

FEMINIIISSSMMM! *shakes fist*

I was considering talking about abortion too but I'm trying not to use the word abortion as much as I can for the time being.. yeah.

But its always annoyed me how mothers get more say just because they're mothers. Too many times have there been reports of women being able to keep their children instead of the fathers, even though the woman if unfit to do so, just because she's the mother.

 

[Dragon_of_red]

My girlfriend hits me...

Never hard or anything remotly painfull, and if she accidently does something apologises, but if i do the same thing i sometimes do it a little too hard since (I know it sounds lame but...) i dont know my own strength, ive never hurt her, ive never really hurt anyone actually...

Yeah, well equality isnt going to happen, if we get close enough to it somethings going to come along and f*** everything up again.

 

[BGH122]

The only way to change it is to remove "rape" and "domestic violence" from the English language, then everyone will be equal.

What about "salary", "opening doors", "parental rights" and "opinion"?

Actually, consistently, salary has been shown to be a non-issue. Women go for lower paying, cushier jobs than men (not just bullshitting: here [http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/08_17/b4081104183847.htm] and here [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Farrell#Why_Men_Earn_More]). It's yet another feminist lie, like the fun ol' feminist lie that domestic violence increases over the super bowl [http://www.snopes.com/crime/statistics/superbowl.asp].

...

Okay, I'm starting to sound like a rabid male rights activist now. Although everything I've stated is true.

EDIT: I'd also like to see abortion laws revised so that women need the father's consent to abort the baby; it takes two to make a child and we're both parents.

I was considering talking about abortion too but I'm trying not to use the word abortion as much as I can for the time being.. yeah.

But its always annoyed me how mothers get more say just because they're mothers. Too many times have there been reports of women being able to keep their children instead of the fathers, even though the woman if unfit to do so, just because she's the mother.

I know, it disgusts me. Not all women were meant to be mothers.

My girlfriend hits me...

Never hard or anything remotly painfull, and if she accidently does something apologises, but if i do the same thing i sometimes do it a little too hard since (I know it sounds lame but...) i dont know my own strength, ive never hurt her, ive never really hurt anyone actually...

Yeah, well equality isnt going to happen, if we get close enough to it somethings going to come along and f*** everything up again.

This is unacceptable. Both you and your girlfriend need to learn self-control unless you are both fine with hitting one another, in which case none of us have any right to interfere based upon our own ideas.

 

[ryuutchi]

yep. A man reporting rape will seriously get laughed at.

It's awesome how women claim so many rights and so much special treatment because of an extra X chromosome.

Oh yes. The right to be paid less, the right to be harassed on the street, the right to be shamed for what I'm wearing if someone harasses or rapes me. The right to be denigrated for not being perfect, not being available to men, or being available to too many men. The right to be the majority of domestic abuse and rape cases.

Which is not to say that men who are raped or abused don't deserve access to the same support systems as women who have been raped or abused, just that women having access to those systems is not a "right". The support systems were hard fought for because in our culture men have the power, and even now when women say they've been abused or raped, they often have to fight tooth and nail to get the resources they need. There's a reason why the majority of rapes and domestic abuse are men-on-women.


That said there do need to be more and better services for men who have been abused, and there is a serious stigma attached to men coming out an saying they've been abused. The way to destigmatize it, however, is not by ignoring the very real fact that women bear the brunt of domestic abuse attacks and rapes.

 

[Eggsnham]

I think that's ignorant, anyone can be a victim. On a side note, I've heard of some feminists trying to make it not so much of an issue for men to hit women. Which is stupid.

 

[Asturiel]

Actually, consistently, salary has been shown to be a non-issue. Women go for lower paying, cushier jobs than men (not just bullshitting: here [http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/08_17/b4081104183847.htm] and here [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Farrell#Why_Men_Earn_More]). It's yet another feminist lie, like the fun ol' feminist lie that domestic violence increases over the super bowl [http://www.snopes.com/crime/statistics/superbowl.asp].

...

Okay, I'm starting to sound like a rabid male rights activist now. Although everything I've stated is true.

EDIT: I'd also like to see abortion laws revised so that women need the father's consent to abort the baby; it takes two to make a child and we're both parents.

Extremely true, however the woman does have to go through child birth and potentially become clinged to the child. I would say partner or parental consent.

Instead of discussing women abusing or raping men, or vice versa, why don't we try to make so no one abuses or rapes anyone at all be it man or woman.

Work to help the majority is easier and will perhaps yield better results than working for everybody. By focusing on the bigger fish we can catch him easier.

 

[BGH122]

yep. A man reporting rape will seriously get laughed at.

It's awesome how women claim so many rights and so much special treatment because of an extra X chromosome.

Oh yes. The right to be paid less, the right to be harassed on the street, the right to be shamed for what I'm wearing if someone harasses or rapes me. The right to be denigrated for not being perfect, not being available to men, or being available to too many men. The right to be the majority of domestic abuse and rape cases.

Which is not to say that men who are raped or abused don't deserve access to the same support systems as women who have been raped or abused, just that women having access to those systems is not a "right". The support systems were hard fought for because in our culture men have the power, and even now when women say they've been abused or raped, they often have to fight tooth and nail to get the resources they need. There's a reason why the majority of rapes and domestic abuse are men-on-women.


That said there do need to be more and better services for men who have been abused, and there is a serious stigma attached to men coming out an saying they've been abused. The way to destigmatize it, however, is not by ignoring the very real fact that women bear the brunt of domestic abuse attacks and rapes.

Why don't you read through this thread before stating a load of things (basically your entire first paragraph) which have already been disproved as feminist superstition? It just isn't true that women are the majority of domestic violence victims (I've already cited the study that proved that), I don't know about rape because I've not researched it.

 

[Samcanuck]

Well, in my opinion, any guy beat up by his girlfriend is weak.

If somebodies beating on you, fight back. If its a women, all bets of not hitting a girl are off, and you show her that guy's are physically stronger.

I have heard of a guy or two being beaten up by there wives, and I just dont understand it, I have never been intimidated by a female. If you can't stick up for yourself, get out of the relationship...simple.

And for both genders, if you are being abused by your spouse or relation, and you don't get out of it, I think you're pathetic in general. Sorry, but these kinds of people need to grow a pair.

 

[BGH122]

Extremely true, however the woman does have to go through child birth and potentially become clinged to the child. I would say partner or parental consent.

Sure, she has to go through birth, but if she didn't want the child she shouldn't have had sex with a man who did. If a man, in my hypothetical system, denied the woman's rights to have the abortion then he would have to take sole care of the child and not involve the woman past the birth and vice versa.

FEMINIIISSSMMM! *shakes fist*

Haha! That edit is mad funny. I'm aware that's what I sound like, but I've just tired of arguing with feminists for several years (even famous feminists) about these issues and getting the same tired scientifically refuted bullshit back that Ryuutchi gave me.

 

[Disaster Button]

Well, in my opinion, any guy beat up by his girlfriend is weak.

If somebodies beating on you, fight back. If its a women, all bets of not hitting a girl are off, and you show her that guy's are physically stronger.

I have heard of a guy or two being beaten up by there wives, and I just dont understand it, I have never been intimidated by a female. If you can't stick up for yourself, get out of the relationship...simple.

And for both genders, if you are being abused by your spouse or relation, and you don't get out of it, I think you're pathetic in general. Sorry, but these kinds of people need to grow a pair.

Its never as easy to "just get out" as you make it sound. There can be any number of reasons why people can't get out: children, emotional weakness, fear, lack of anywhere to go are just a few reasons why people can't just leave.

And to say men are physically stronger than women is a generalisation. Not all men are physically stronger than women, especially those afflicted with physical conditions.

 

[pffh]

yep. A man reporting rape will seriously get laughed at.

It's awesome how women claim so many rights and so much special treatment because of an extra X chromosome.

Oh yes. The right to be paid less, the right to be harassed on the street, the right to be shamed for what I'm wearing if someone harasses or rapes me. The right to be denigrated for not being perfect, not being available to men, or being available to too many men. The right to be the majority of domestic abuse and rape cases.

Which is not to say that men who are raped or abused don't deserve access to the same support systems as women who have been raped or abused, just that women having access to those systems is not a "right". The support systems were hard fought for because in our culture men have the power, and even now when women say they've been abused or raped, they often have to fight tooth and nail to get the resources they need. There's a reason why the majority of rapes and domestic abuse are men-on-women.


That said there do need to be more and better services for men who have been abused, and there is a serious stigma attached to men coming out an saying they've been abused. The way to destigmatize it, however, is not by ignoring the very real fact that women bear the brunt of domestic abuse attacks and rapes.

The majority of REPORTED rape and domestic abuses cases are men on women BECAUSE of the social stigma that female on male abuse = the man is just a pussy and that male rape is funny. If that weren't the case the numbers would be much closer (maybe not even but much closer then what they are today).

Extremely true, however the woman does have to go through child birth and potentially become clinged to the child. I would say partner or parental consent.

Sure, she has to go through birth, but if she didn't want the child she shouldn't have had sex with a man who did. If a man, in my hypothetical system, denied the woman's rights to have the abortion then he would have to take sole care of the child and not involve the woman past the birth and vice versa.

I would like to go a step further in this and say that if the man wanted an abortion and the woman didn't she would have to be the sole supporter of the child and waive all legal rights to have the man do anything for her or the child.

 

[Xan Krieger]

Hypothetical situation:
Woman comes up to man and punches him in the mouth.
Man returns favor by punching woman in the mouth.
Woman cries and calls cops.
Man is arrested for assault.

This kind of thing should not happen. If a woman tries to attack me I believe it within my rights to defend myself. But because of the stereotype that men are always the agressors the man will always lose this kind of legal battle. Seriously women can kick ass, watch women in MMA. That is some brutal stuff. The point there is women are just as capable of hurting people as men.

 

[BGH122]

Hypothetical situation:
Woman comes up to man and punches him in the mouth.
Man returns favor by punching woman in the mouth.
Woman cries and calls cops.
Man is arrested for assault.

This kind of thing should not happen. If a woman tries to attack me I believe it within my rights to defend myself. But because of the stereotype that men are always the agressors the man will always lose this kind of legal battle. Seriously women can kick ass, watch women in MMA. That is some brutal stuff. The point there is women are just as capable of hurting people as men.

I know and I agree, especially with your underlying point that protectionism of women is sexist as it presumes that they're weak. Unfortunately, most 'feminists' just want to have their cake and eat it too; they want all the positive equalities and none of the negatives.

Extremely true, however the woman does have to go through child birth and potentially become clinged to the child. I would say partner or parental consent.

Sure, she has to go through birth, but if she didn't want the child she shouldn't have had sex with a man who did. If a man, in my hypothetical system, denied the woman's rights to have the abortion then he would have to take sole care of the child and not involve the woman past the birth and vice versa.

I would like to go a step further in this and say that if the man wanted an abortion and the woman didn't she would have to be the sole supporter of the child and waive all legal rights to have the man do anything for her or the child.

That's what I meant by vice versa, sorry I wasn't clearer; I'm angry and I've drunk a whole bottle scotch and wine tonight.

 

[bobknowsall]

A woman cries abuse and shes a victim.

A man cries abuse and hes weak.

However,

A man sleeps with two women and he's a legend.

A woman sleeps with two men and she's a whore.

That double standard seems to be slipping a bit now, though. Women aren't being portrayed any more favourably, but some lads are looked down upon for being boorish, sex-obsessed manchildren. Which I think is the right way to go, really.

OT: Either sex can be the victim of domestic abuse, and people need to start realising that. Guys, especially the gentle ones, are unlikely to hit back when their female partner starts hurting them. It's a real double-bind, because they'll be viewed as the bad guy if they hurt her, or they'll be considered weak if they let in continue. Talk about messed-up...