You can't hit me, you're the woman!

[Asturiel]

She really was. She was gorgeous too and I was stupid enough to let her go.

...

Not that I intend to mean that I 'owned' her.

Damn anti slavery laws Your own mistake. Hehe yeah we know. Anybody saying your a jackass for saying that is stupid though... Unless you went onto say that she fought the contract she signed with you...

Nice one, so do i. Someone hits me they'll get it right back no matter of gender

Some of the stereotypes really do bug me though...ah well, such is life

Yep, double standards keep society going and it's terrabad.

FEMINIIISSSMMM! *shakes fist*

I was considering talking about abortion too but I'm trying not to use the word abortion as much as I can for the time being.. yeah.

But its always annoyed me how mothers get more say just because they're mothers. Too many times have there been reports of women being able to keep their children instead of the fathers, even though the woman if unfit to do so, just because she's the mother.

Hmm, thats both bias and slightly correct. If I had to choose between two perfectly capable parents, I would choose the mother for a girl and the father for a guy. Frankly they should ask the child who they want to go with if it's that close to call but the mother has a closer bond with her young than a man usually, which is to be expected. Men(figuratively speaking) are meant to feed and protect the family, while woman are supposed to be with the children and take care of them, that is their job correct?

I know, it disgusts me. Not all women were meant to be mothers.

Not a lot of people are meant to be what they are doing, but it happens, what can ya do? If things stay quiet nothing, if they don't and competent people are put in charge perhaps something can be done.

Oh yes. The right to be paid less, the right to be harassed on the street, the right to be shamed for what I'm wearing if someone harasses or rapes me. The right to be denigrated for not being perfect, not being available to men, or being available to too many men. The right to be the majority of domestic abuse and rape cases.

Which is not to say that men who are raped or abused don't deserve access to the same support systems as women who have been raped or abused, just that women having access to those systems is not a "right". The support systems were hard fought for because in our culture men have the power, and even now when women say they've been abused or raped, they often have to fight tooth and nail to get the resources they need. There's a reason why the majority of rapes and domestic abuse are men-on-women.


That said there do need to be more and better services for men who have been abused, and there is a serious stigma attached to men coming out an saying they've been abused. The way to destigmatize it, however, is not by ignoring the very real fact that women bear the brunt of domestic abuse attacks and rapes.

True, it is easier for men to rape considering we can usually force a woman with our muscles and the fact that we have an easier sexual tool to rape with than woman, just a biological thing.

It's bad that woman can be said to have "had it coming" but take responsibility for the choice of wearing what you wore! If I wore a "coalition forever" t-shirt to a conservative party in Canada and got a good yelling at and maybe hurt, yes it shouldn't have happened but it did and I have a brain to tell me it was going to happen!

The reason why majority of raped are man-on-woman is because, woman are societally allowed to cry out for help in them and men just have an easier time raping woman, simpler than that.

 

[Disaster Button]

Hypothetical situation:
Woman comes up to man and punches him in the mouth.
Man returns favor by punching woman in the mouth.
Woman cries and calls cops.
Man is arrested for assault.

This kind of thing should not happen. If a woman tries to attack me I believe it within my rights to defend myself. But because of the stereotype that men are always the agressors the man will always lose this kind of legal battle. Seriously women can kick ass, watch women in MMA. That is some brutal stuff. The point there is women are just as capable of hurting people as men.

I know and I agree, especially with your underlying point that protectionism of women is sexist as it presumes that they're weak. Unfortunately, most 'feminists' just want to have their cake and eat it too; they want all the positive equalities and none of the negatives.

It never fails to anger me how feminists (although its usually feminazis, there is a difference) will protest that they want the same treatment as men and deserve to not to be given any exceptions but then they will do a complete turn around and protest that if a man does not hold a door open for a woman then he sees women as insignificant. This constant flip flopping of ideals is rediculous and is oozing of hypocrisy.

 

[The Night Shade]

A woman cries abuse and shes a victim.

A man cries abuse and hes weak.

perfect explanation

 

[Zannah]

Extremely true, however the woman does have to go through child birth and potentially become clinged to the child. I would say partner or parental consent.

Sure, she has to go through birth, but if she didn't want the child she shouldn't have had sex with a man who did. If a man, in my hypothetical system, denied the woman's rights to have the abortion then he would have to take sole care of the child and not involve the woman past the birth and vice versa.

However, as much as he might want the child, he won't have to undergo the rather painful, and potentially dangerous process that in child-birth. While the responsibility in the act of making might be shared equally, the whole pregnancybusiness has close to no impact on the life of the man, but quite heavy impact on the women's live. You know, having to devote almost a year of your life, not being able to work, having to wathc the way you live, what you eat and stuff...

A Lot of people, especially in a debate like this, fail to grasp, that equality doesn't mean, treating different things equally - that would be just like forcing that one guy in the wheelchair to participate in sports class - which wouldn't have much to do with fair, or for that matter equal treatment, and more with general thickheadedness.

 

[ryuutchi]

Why don't you read through this thread before stating a load of things (basically your entire first paragraph) which have already been disproved as feminist superstition? It just isn't true that women are the majority of domestic violence victims (I've already cited the study that proved that), I don't know about rape because I've not researched it.

Noooooot so much. Women are, in fact, the predominant majority of domestic violence victims.

According to the U.S. Department of Justice, between 1998 and 2002:
Of the almost 3.5 million violent crimes committed against family members, 49% of these were crimes against spouses.
84% of spouse abuse victims were females, and 86% of victims of dating partner abuse at were female.
Males were 83% of spouse murderers and 75% of dating partner murderers
50% of offenders in state prison for spousal abuse had killed their victims. Wives were more likely than husbands to be killed by their spouses: wives were about half of all spouses in the population in 2002, but 81% of all persons killed by their spouse.

Matthew R. Durose et al., U.S. Dep't of Just., NCJ 207846, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Family Violence Statistics: Including Statistics on Strangers and Acquaintances, at 31-32 (2005), available at http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/fvs.pdf


In 2000, 1,247 women and 440 men were killed by an intimate partner. In recent years, an intimate partner killed approximately 33% of female murder victims and 4% of male murder victims.

Callie Marie Rennison, U.S. Dep't of Just., NCJ 197838, Bureau of Justice Statistics Crime Data Brief: Intimate Partner Violence, 1993-2001, at 1 (2003), available at http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/ipv01.pdf

Approximately 1.3 million women and 835,000 men are physically assaulted by an intimate partner annually in the United States.

Patricia Tjaden & Nancy Thoennes, U.S. Dep't of Just., NCJ 183781, Full Report of the Prevalence, Incidence, and Consequences of Intimate Partner Violence Against Women: Findings from the National Violence Against Women Survey, at iv (2000), available at http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/nij/pubs-sum/183781.htm

(All statistic found here: http://new.abanet.org/domesticviolence/Pages/Statistics.aspx)

As for the wage gap, I'm just going to suggest you look up "Lilly Ledbetter", and give up there.

... why am I taking seriously someone who, apparently unironically, just called the realities of being female "feminist superstition"? IDEK. I think I should probably back the hell off and go do something more productive with my time. Like reading TVTropes for three hours or something.

A woman cries abuse and shes a victim.

A man cries abuse and hes weak.

Oh and this! The reason men are considered "weak" for admitting to being abuse victims is because they are admitting to being like women. Because women are "supposed to be" the abuse victims and men are not. To destigmatize men being abuse victims, we have to acknowledge that fact.

 

[SnipErlite]

Nice one, so do i. Someone hits me they'll get it right back no matter of gender

Some of the stereotypes really do bug me though...ah well, such is life

Yep, double standards keep society going and it's terrabad.

Well let's fight against them! - Everyone! Punch some women!

Lol, maybe not......

 

[BGH122]

She really was. She was gorgeous too and I was stupid enough to let her go.

...

Not that I intend to mean that I 'owned' her.

Damn anti slavery laws

Haha xD

It's bad that woman can be said to have "had it coming" but take responsibility for the choice of wearing what you wore! If I wore a "coalition forever" t-shirt to a conservative party in Canada and got a good yelling at and maybe hurt, yes it shouldn't have happened but it did and I have a brain to tell me it was going to happen!

I'm not sure I agree with this logic, clothing alone isn't a justification of rape, in fact nothing is a justification of rape IMO. The only types of 'rape' I discount are those where the rapee was heavily intoxicated and can't remember whether they consented or not and then claims rape in retrospect.

The reason why majority of raped are man-on-woman is because, woman are societally allowed to cry out for help in them and men just have an easier time raping woman, simpler than that.

Woah there buddy! Let's find some proof for this first before reasoning why things are this way! Allen et al (2002) showed that even within raped women raped lower social class women were three times more likely to report their rape than higher social class women due to stigma! Imagine how under-represented men must be in the statistics!

 

[Disaster Button]

FEMINIIISSSMMM! *shakes fist*

I was considering talking about abortion too but I'm trying not to use the word abortion as much as I can for the time being.. yeah.

But its always annoyed me how mothers get more say just because they're mothers. Too many times have there been reports of women being able to keep their children instead of the fathers, even though the woman if unfit to do so, just because she's the mother.

Hmm, thats both bias and slightly correct. If I had to choose between two perfectly capable parents, I would choose the mother for a girl and the father for a guy. Frankly they should ask the child who they want to go with if it's that close to call but the mother has a closer bond with her young than a man usually, which is to be expected. Men(figuratively speaking) are meant to feed and protect the family, while woman are supposed to be with the children and take care of them, that is their job correct?

Well I'm actually a lot closer to my mother than my dad so if I was to be assigned a gender symmetrical parent it wouldn't work out well for me.

At one point in our evolution it was discovered that women actually played the hunter gatherer role while men stayed back at the batcave. But I agree that it should be up to the child who they wish to go with, if they are capable of making the choice. Besides men, especially in the last 10 years, have been viewed with less prejudice if they choose to stay home with the kids allowing the mother to work.

 

[BGH122]

Why don't you read through this thread before stating a load of things (basically your entire first paragraph) which have already been disproved as feminist superstition? It just isn't true that women are the majority of domestic violence victims (I've already cited the study that proved that), I don't know about rape because I've not researched it.

Noooooot so much. Women are, in fact, the predominant majority of domestic violence victims.

According to the U.S. Department of Justice, between 1998 and 2002:
Of the almost 3.5 million violent crimes committed against family members, 49% of these were crimes against spouses.
84% of spouse abuse victims were females, and 86% of victims of dating partner abuse at were female.
Males were 83% of spouse murderers and 75% of dating partner murderers
50% of offenders in state prison for spousal abuse had killed their victims. Wives were more likely than husbands to be killed by their spouses: wives were about half of all spouses in the population in 2002, but 81% of all persons killed by their spouse.

Matthew R. Durose et al., U.S. Dep't of Just., NCJ 207846, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Family Violence Statistics: Including Statistics on Strangers and Acquaintances, at 31-32 (2005), available at http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/fvs.pdf


In 2000, 1,247 women and 440 men were killed by an intimate partner. In recent years, an intimate partner killed approximately 33% of female murder victims and 4% of male murder victims.

Callie Marie Rennison, U.S. Dep't of Just., NCJ 197838, Bureau of Justice Statistics Crime Data Brief: Intimate Partner Violence, 1993-2001, at 1 (2003), available at http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/ipv01.pdf

Approximately 1.3 million women and 835,000 men are physically assaulted by an intimate partner annually in the United States.

Patricia Tjaden & Nancy Thoennes, U.S. Dep't of Just., NCJ 183781, Full Report of the Prevalence, Incidence, and Consequences of Intimate Partner Violence Against Women: Findings from the National Violence Against Women Survey, at iv (2000), available at http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/nij/pubs-sum/183781.htm

(All statistic found here: http://new.abanet.org/domesticviolence/Pages/Statistics.aspx)

As for the wage gap, I'm just going to suggest you look up "Lilly Ledbetter", and give up there.

... why am I taking seriously someone who, apparently unironically, just called the realities of being female "feminist superstition"? IDEK. I think I should probably back the hell off and go do something more productive with my time. Like reading TVTropes for three hours or something.

You're using almost exclusively US Dept. Justice statistics and self-report measures when we've already shown why those statistics cannot be trusted. This is why I have used scientific studies which try to control for the stigma against men reporting domestic violence.

Ledbetter is an awful case and I feel truly sorry for her, she shouldn't have been placed in a position like that, but she's hardly representative of women. This would be as inept an analogy as me going "Look up 'Bobbit' and see how bad domestic violence against men is!"

Oh and this! The reason men are considered "weak" for admitting to being abuse victims is because they are admitting to being like women. Because women are "supposed to be" the abuse victims and men are not. To destigmatize men being abuse victims, we have to acknowledge that fact.

This is absolutely ridiculous. You've just stated this axiomatically without any proof or any falsifiability. It's clear you're lost to borked feminist logic.

 

[theultimateend]

I agree with you in this.
It's horrible that men are too embarrassed due to stupid gender roles to report being abused.
The adverts just support that stereotype.

It's the exact same with rape too.

yep. A man reporting rape will seriously get laughed at.

It's awesome how women claim so many rights and so much special treatment because of an extra X chromosome.

You show me a man who is sexually assaulted by a woman that looks absolutely horrifying, reports it, and gets laughed at and I'll show you a horse that fires lazers from its eyes and flies on clouds made of razor blades and heavy metal rock music.

You might be saying to yourself the latter will never happen, that is because the former won't either so I'm safe.

The reason people would laugh at a man, in theory, if he reported being raped by a woman, is we assume the woman in question is someone we'd all like to do.

The only time anything CLOSE to that has happened to my knowledge was to some high schoolers and only because their parents found out. Most of the time, at least when it is in the news, the statutory stuff is bollocks. (Don't get me wrong, sexually advancing on someone who doesn't understand is incredibly wrong, I'm just saying most popular news cases about it are bollocks)

More women are assaulted because (and I'm surprised this point ever needs to be made) generally men are more prone to physical violence and sexual aggression. This isn't because men are evil or sexual deviants it is just a side effect of trying to create a society around what is, at its heart, just another animal from the animal kingdom (albeit one that, I very self indulgently will say, is exceptionally talented).

It isn't a blanket issue but it isn't surprising either. Hormones do what they do to make sure that we survive, unfortunately mixing this with the fact that most of what they do is no longer necessary leaves us with a lot of dissonance to deal with.

It's not fun, hitting anyone is bad, and rape is never a good thing, and male animals acting like male animals should never shock people, they should instead be shocked and pleased that the vast majority of people aren't doing it, consider these talking points the TL;DR of what I'm trying to say.

 

[ryuutchi]

I'm not sure I agree with this logic, clothing alone isn't a justification of rape, in fact nothing is a justification of rape IMO. The only types of 'rape' I discount are those where the rapee was heavily intoxicated and can't remember whether they consented or not and then claims rape in retrospect.

If someone is too drunk to remember whether they consented-- and the other party IS NOT, then it was rape. Plain and simple. You can't consent if you're drunk.

 

[Samcanuck]

Well, in my opinion, any guy beat up by his girlfriend is weak.

If somebodies beating on you, fight back. If its a women, all bets of not hitting a girl are off, and you show her that guy's are physically stronger.

I have heard of a guy or two being beaten up by there wives, and I just dont understand it, I have never been intimidated by a female. If you can't stick up for yourself, get out of the relationship...simple.

And for both genders, if you are being abused by your spouse or relation, and you don't get out of it, I think you're pathetic in general. Sorry, but these kinds of people need to grow a pair.

Its never as easy to "just get out" as you make it sound. There can be any number of reasons why people can't get out: children, emotional weakness, fear, lack of anywhere to go are just a few reasons why people can't just leave.

And to say men are physically stronger than women is a generalisation. Not all men are physically stronger than women, especially those afflicted with physical conditions.

So how are any of those reasons a compromise to abuse? With all of those, even kid's, an adult can survive just fine in the real world (hell my sister in law moved from England to Canada with her daughter from an emotionally abusive marriage, its called divorce...so did one of my aunts in an abusive relationship and both parties have fully developed and loved children). People live without a spouse with kids throughout the world...so I do not understand your argument. In my opinion they are still very pathetic ESPECIALLY if they keep their children in that enviroment. All your other choice show me no reason on how thats a compromise to abuse what-so-ever.

I guess its a generalisation. I mean their are males who have below average strength or are mentally handycapped. But an average man is going to develope more muscle mass...so my generalisation is not far off. Either way though, those individuals are weak. What, they dont have the mental or physicle fortitude to fight back, stick up for themselves, get help or leave...and they are somehow strong? No, they really arent.

 

[Plurralbles]

I agree with you in this.
It's horrible that men are too embarrassed due to stupid gender roles to report being abused.
The adverts just support that stereotype.

It's the exact same with rape too.

yep. A man reporting rape will seriously get laughed at.

It's awesome how women claim so many rights and so much special treatment because of an extra X chromosome.

You show me a man who is sexually assaulted by a woman that looks absolutely horrifying, reports it, and gets laughed at and I'll show you a horse that fires lazers from its eyes and flies on clouds made of razor blades and heavy metal rock music.

You might be saying to yourself the latter will never happen, that is because the former won't either so I'm safe.

The reason people would laugh at a man, in theory, if he reported being raped by a woman, is we assume the woman in question is someone we'd all like to do.

The only time anything CLOSE to that has happened to my knowledge was to some high schoolers and only because their parents found out. Most of the time, at least when it is in the news, the statutory stuff is bollocks. (Don't get me wrong, sexually advancing on someone who doesn't understand is incredibly wrong, I'm just saying most popular news cases about it are bollocks)

I actually found one of those in my back yard. It was scary until I gave it a carrot but then it was fine.

Your ignorance is showing. You should probably zip your fly.

 

[Vuzzmop]

I would never hit a lady. A lady is like a gentleman; they deserve special treatment because they earn it through grace and civility, regardless of socioeconomic status. However, if a woman hits you, she isn't a lady.
The unfortunate thing is, the government are still under the influence of a misguided feminist movement and are unlikely to repair the double standard any time soon.

 

[Blatherscythe]

Men are just better known to be physically abusive, women are more verbally abusive. Though women can be just as violent and abusive as any man could be.

 

[BGH122]

I'm not sure I agree with this logic, clothing alone isn't a justification of rape, in fact nothing is a justification of rape IMO. The only types of 'rape' I discount are those where the rapee was heavily intoxicated and can't remember whether they consented or not and then claims rape in retrospect.

If someone is too drunk to remember whether they consented-- and the other party IS NOT, then it was rape. Plain and simple. You can't consent if you're drunk.

No, if the woman chose to get drunk and hence place herself in a state of inebriation then this is her fault. If a man intentionally got her drunk in order to have sex with her then this is his fault. You are attempting to remove personal responsibility, as is oh-so popular with feminists.

 

[theultimateend]

I agree with you in this.
It's horrible that men are too embarrassed due to stupid gender roles to report being abused.
The adverts just support that stereotype.

It's the exact same with rape too.

yep. A man reporting rape will seriously get laughed at.

It's awesome how women claim so many rights and so much special treatment because of an extra X chromosome.

You show me a man who is sexually assaulted by a woman that looks absolutely horrifying, reports it, and gets laughed at and I'll show you a horse that fires lazers from its eyes and flies on clouds made of razor blades and heavy metal rock music.

You might be saying to yourself the latter will never happen, that is because the former won't either so I'm safe.

The reason people would laugh at a man, in theory, if he reported being raped by a woman, is we assume the woman in question is someone we'd all like to do.

The only time anything CLOSE to that has happened to my knowledge was to some high schoolers and only because their parents found out. Most of the time, at least when it is in the news, the statutory stuff is bollocks. (Don't get me wrong, sexually advancing on someone who doesn't understand is incredibly wrong, I'm just saying most popular news cases about it are bollocks)

I actually found one of those in my back yard. It was scary until I gave it a carrot but then it was fine.

Your ignorance is showing. You should probably zip your fly.

I'm apparently ignorant since I don't get your point.

I said your situation is entirely fabricated and your response is just to insult me?

 

[ryuutchi]

It's bad that woman can be said to have "had it coming" but take responsibility for the choice of wearing what you wore! If I wore a "coalition forever" t-shirt to a conservative party in Canada and got a good yelling at and maybe hurt, yes it shouldn't have happened but it did and I have a brain to tell me it was going to happen!

The reason why majority of raped are man-on-woman is because, woman are societally allowed to cry out for help in them and men just have an easier time raping woman, simpler than that.

The clothing defense only makes sense if, for some hideously illogical (but frustratingly common) reason you think women are only dressing up to show off "what they've got" to men. If I wear a low-cut top, maybe I'm wearing it because it's a comfortable top. Same with a short skirt. The responsibility is not on a woman to wear clothing that isn't going to provoke a rape. it's on the man to NOT RAPE. It's not the same as wearing a shirt that provokes an argument (although, I'd personally argue, that it's on the offended person not to start the argument), because yelling at someone because you have a difference of opinion is not the same thing as a rape.

The reason why the majority of rapes are men-on-women is actually because of something called "Rape culture". I'd suggest you google it, but somehow I think even if you did you'd discount it.

 

[pffh]

I'm not sure I agree with this logic, clothing alone isn't a justification of rape, in fact nothing is a justification of rape IMO. The only types of 'rape' I discount are those where the rapee was heavily intoxicated and can't remember whether they consented or not and then claims rape in retrospect.

If someone is too drunk to remember whether they consented-- and the other party IS NOT, then it was rape. Plain and simple. You can't consent if you're drunk.

What if they were both so drunk? Were they then both raped by each other?

 

[BGH122]

I'm not sure I agree with this logic, clothing alone isn't a justification of rape, in fact nothing is a justification of rape IMO. The only types of 'rape' I discount are those where the rapee was heavily intoxicated and can't remember whether they consented or not and then claims rape in retrospect.

If someone is too drunk to remember whether they consented-- and the other party IS NOT, then it was rape. Plain and simple. You can't consent if you're drunk.

What if they were both so drunk? Were they then both raped by each other?

That's a good point. Ryuutchi, Pffh has shown that your logic presents a paradox when universalised. This is pretty serious.

It's bad that woman can be said to have "had it coming" but take responsibility for the choice of wearing what you wore! If I wore a "coalition forever" t-shirt to a conservative party in Canada and got a good yelling at and maybe hurt, yes it shouldn't have happened but it did and I have a brain to tell me it was going to happen!

The reason why majority of raped are man-on-woman is because, woman are societally allowed to cry out for help in them and men just have an easier time raping woman, simpler than that.

The clothing defense only makes sense if, for some hideously illogical (but frustratingly common) reason you think women are only dressing up to show off "what they've got" to men. If I wear a low-cut top, maybe I'm wearing it because it's a comfortable top. Same with a short skirt. The responsibility is not on a woman to wear clothing that isn't going to provoke a rape. it's on the man to NOT RAPE. It's not the same as wearing a shirt that provokes an argument (although, I'd personally argue, that it's on the offended person not to start the argument), because yelling at someone because you have a difference of opinion is not the same thing as a rape.

The reason why the majority of rapes are men-on-women is actually because of something called "Rape culture". I'd suggest you google it, but somehow I think even if you did you'd discount it.

Oh please, please tell me you're joking:

Rape culture is a term used within women's studies and feminism, describing a culture in which rape and other sexual violence (usually against women) are common and in which prevalent attitudes, norms, practices, and media condone, normalize, excuse, or encourage sexualized violence.

Please stop referring to tired, scientifically unsupported feminist bullshit.