I took the liberty to edit the quote to match my opinion of rap, because I'm too lazy to write something myself. [SUB]But I just did that... Aaaahhh.. *Scrubs' Ted-style*[/SUB]zHellas said:
Your Current Opinion on Rap Today?
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I was ninja'd to the most accurate answer of the night.Deadlock Radium said:
Can't stand rap today, couldn't stand it before now, never will be able to stand it either.
My opinion of it contains more expletives than the average rap song, which is itself some amazing grammatical feat.
And remember, boys and girls, you can't spell "crap" without "rap".
A lot of the lyrics these days are, as everyone has been saying, about drugs, women and money. Whereas older rap, starting with groups like the NWA and Grandmaster Flash often had topics and contained a message. I had to study rap for like 2 months as part of the music course i'm doing at college, so I understand where its come from and what it is now. The older stuff certainly contains more meaningful lyrics and the music itself is different, oftentimes it being constructed from the drum breaks in old funk records.
Having said that, I dislike rap music still. It's just not what I like to spread on my toast yo.
Having said that, I dislike rap music still. It's just not what I like to spread on my toast yo.
I hate rap nowadays... but after hearing Rebirth of the Slick, my opinion on Hip-Hop has risen slightly, though most mainstream stuff is frankly, utter shite.
Honestly, I don't listen to much because of the mainstream imagery. However, I was turned on to a group called Movits! recently. They are a Swedish group that fuses rap with jazz, and I really like it. Especially their song about Tom Jones. No idea what they're actually saying, but it sounds really good.
I think it's easy to look at the radio and to take Gucci Mane, Souljaboy, and the rest as its state, but that completely ignores the numerous regional/underground/alternative/independent artists that love the artform.
Lupe Fiasco
Wale
Abdominal
Common
Practically the entire Rhymesayers and Def Jux labels including their subsidiaries.
Many of the greats/bests of the mainstream are still doing impressive things lyrically despite the narcissism and tired subjects. T.I. put out a conscious song that became an overplayed single. Wayne's wordplay is practically unmatched.
Even in down here in little ol' North Carolina we have local cats with lots of respect for the culture: Kooley High/Inflowential, Blount Harvey, Little Brother, etc.
It's also important to respect the difference between the radio single and the album. On the same CD that describes golddiggers and their ilk, Kanye writes songs about his mother, his hometown, and frustration with wage work while trying to shop a demo. Hell, his most recent album despite the autotune was almost entirely a cathartic work that dwelled on his failed relationships.
Lupe Fiasco
Wale
Abdominal
Common
Practically the entire Rhymesayers and Def Jux labels including their subsidiaries.
Many of the greats/bests of the mainstream are still doing impressive things lyrically despite the narcissism and tired subjects. T.I. put out a conscious song that became an overplayed single. Wayne's wordplay is practically unmatched.
Even in down here in little ol' North Carolina we have local cats with lots of respect for the culture: Kooley High/Inflowential, Blount Harvey, Little Brother, etc.
It's also important to respect the difference between the radio single and the album. On the same CD that describes golddiggers and their ilk, Kanye writes songs about his mother, his hometown, and frustration with wage work while trying to shop a demo. Hell, his most recent album despite the autotune was almost entirely a cathartic work that dwelled on his failed relationships.
Rap? Who talks about rap anymore?
Rap died when Eminem got white and had a wife and a kid. It's R&B that you should be focused on now. Kanye, Kid Cudi, LUPE FIASCO, etc. Also, don't go underground to find your rap, it only gets worse down there.
Although, modern R&B can be some very powerful stuff. It's not for the weak of sound.
Also, for those who blatantly ignore rap and shun it to the deepest nethers of their mind, I'm sorry. It's like blocking out an entire culture that you could take joy from. And, IT'S NOT COOL.
Rap died when Eminem got white and had a wife and a kid. It's R&B that you should be focused on now. Kanye, Kid Cudi, LUPE FIASCO, etc. Also, don't go underground to find your rap, it only gets worse down there.
Although, modern R&B can be some very powerful stuff. It's not for the weak of sound.
Also, for those who blatantly ignore rap and shun it to the deepest nethers of their mind, I'm sorry. It's like blocking out an entire culture that you could take joy from. And, IT'S NOT COOL.
Are you implying that Rap died as a genre of music when Eminem left, or are you saying that it ceased to be controversial/incendiary? In either regard, I think you're mistaken.bakonslayer said:
I think you missed the fact that he was showing how ridiculous it is to generalize to the entirety of a genre.Sronpop said:
I get the impression that, as with most art forms, the people that criticise it are people that haven't really experienced it in any meaningful way. Yes, I'm sortof drawing an analogy between Michael Atkinson criticising games and guys on a webforum people criticising rap music. Rap suffers from Sturgeon's Law of 90% of everything is shit. On the other, so does pretty much every genre, media or form of entertainment. (If you are say "But what about X [heavy metal most likely], way more than 10% of it is great", then I suggest that you adjust your standards).
If I went on this forum and said that "All metal was shitty noise, with dumb violent lyrics from 10th generation Metallica imitators, listened to exclusively by closet psychopaths"*, then all hell would break loose. I believe rap is getting a similar treatment. While you do get your Black Eyed Peas, Asher Roths and Solja Boys, judging rap by them would be like judging rock by Nickleback, John Mayer or BrokenCYDE.
There have been some fantastic rappers this decade. Dizzee Rascal brought a new level of introspection to the genre (not sarcastic), OutKast were amazingly innovative (and whats more, popular), Jay-Z and Kanye West just perfected the formula layed out by the great rappers of the 90s.
I find it ironic that people are criticising rap from this decade as being to poppy and mysogynistic as well. It was only post-2000 that the nerdy white guy rapper actually got a foothold in the buisiness, with rappers like Sage Francis, Atmosphere and Aesop Rock showing that rappers could be emotionally open, fragile, self depricating and still good quality rappers.
*disclaimer before someone without a concept on "subtext" gets offended: This is not my opinion
If I went on this forum and said that "All metal was shitty noise, with dumb violent lyrics from 10th generation Metallica imitators, listened to exclusively by closet psychopaths"*, then all hell would break loose. I believe rap is getting a similar treatment. While you do get your Black Eyed Peas, Asher Roths and Solja Boys, judging rap by them would be like judging rock by Nickleback, John Mayer or BrokenCYDE.
There have been some fantastic rappers this decade. Dizzee Rascal brought a new level of introspection to the genre (not sarcastic), OutKast were amazingly innovative (and whats more, popular), Jay-Z and Kanye West just perfected the formula layed out by the great rappers of the 90s.
I find it ironic that people are criticising rap from this decade as being to poppy and mysogynistic as well. It was only post-2000 that the nerdy white guy rapper actually got a foothold in the buisiness, with rappers like Sage Francis, Atmosphere and Aesop Rock showing that rappers could be emotionally open, fragile, self depricating and still good quality rappers.
*disclaimer before someone without a concept on "subtext" gets offended: This is not my opinion
Not quite my cup of tea, however I will say this much. The problem is with the cultures involved not with Rap itself, since you can rap about anything (as things like Nerdcore have demonstrated) you don't even need to include any sex or violence.DragonChi said:
Rap music is however associated with what amounts to MASSIVE criminal and anti-societal movements, and also contributes to racial tensions on a lot of levels.
The thing is that if you were to stamp out Rap entirely, the problems in question would continue and you'd still have the same issues.
Of course the thing is that targeting Rap is much easier than targeting the problem in question. Much like how targeting video games is much easier than targeting problems with society that cause people to become so discontent with life that they seek powerful escapism almost all the time.
To illustrate for example, I could very much talk about a massive crack down on black culture, forced mainstreaming, racial profiling, and all kinds of things. Most of which are perfectly rational solutions to problems. The problem of course being that to do things like this would in the minds of many both be racist (as opposed to an assault on a culture), and also set back civil liberties substantially because with any massive action there are going to be innocent people caught in the crossfire. A "greater good mentality" is something that the US has problems dealing with.
The thing is that to do something like that goes into very touchy areas, and sudden radical change is seen as being bad. Not to mention that any kind of massive action (in any area) involves people getting up off their butts and doing something. In comparison it's much easier to point a finger at Rap music and act like targeting it will somehow get rid of all the Gangstas, crime infested Ghettos, "get rich or die trying" attitudes, anti-white attitudes, and intentional scorn of education and self improvement. ANY direct assault on those things that could work would go into some touchy moral ground, and involve a lot of risks. Especially seeing as with current lifespans your dealing with something that could take generations of conflict to take.
On top of this there is also the issue that targeting one culture or subculture is not going to change society by itself. It would make things a little better, but you've still got all the other races/subcultures/groups that cause trouble (including white ones) which means that they would all have to be targeted one at a time. All those drops in the bucket add up, BUT people don't want to pull the trigger, and see a lot of hard work and conflict in the short term that affects them. People would much rather see things continue, and hope some miracle occurs.
I am probably not articulating this well, so don't take it the wrong way. The point is that the messages in Rap music are simply a symptom of problems that are so big, and so contreversial, that nobody wants to address them. Just as addressing things like massive escapism, columbine school shootings, and other things would involve addressing the entire US educational infrastructure and how things are done in a practical sense, as well changing a lot of fundemental societal changes. Want to get kids to go outside and play? You need to get the crime reduced (which can involve things like the above), take a more pro-active approach to policing child molesters and such, and repeal massive amounts of laws that prevent kids from roaming streets and neighborhoods unattended in places just to start.
No, I am just under the impression that it just happened to be around that time when Rap became overshadowed in the mainstream by R&B. And that Eminem [and others during that early 2000 period] was the last major mainstream rapper. After 8 Mile majorly publicized the whole scene, rap had a Renaissance and then over a few years the mainstream turned back to the safer and denser R&B sounds.Byrn Stuff said:
But I could be completely off base. >_<
I don't see why so many people dislike it :S
I consider songs like: "rap game" "the sauce" and almost every other song featuring Eminem as
solid gold
but then again, that is quite a while ago isn't it but i haven't heard a good song (rap or no rap) in years. (with a few exceptions of course)
I consider songs like: "rap game" "the sauce" and almost every other song featuring Eminem as
solid gold
but then again, that is quite a while ago isn't it but i haven't heard a good song (rap or no rap) in years. (with a few exceptions of course)