Zero Punctuation: Metal Gear Solid 4

[Proto Cloud]

mspencer: please stop trying to make yourself look cool by making dry, sarcastic replies with no backing to them. It's getting old.

Dry sarcasm is what I'm about, it's part of my charm. If you don't like it, don't read my posts.

Mmm. So you're just all show, I can dig it. Though I would hardly call it "charming".

 

[VMerken]

Again what does it matter, Unless his gaming habbits and ideas about games have TOTALLY pulled a 180 their is no logic in that statement, even then his flip flopping shows that he just goes back and forth rather than staying on one side of the road or the other.

The Logic:

* Yahtzee produces some games
* After that, he produces a *subjective*, animated opinion series on video games
* Yahtzee streamlines this series to generate more traffic and thus more $$$

I see no glaring problems with this chronological process, since it's Yahtzee's subjective opinion that he brings forward, and not some rigorous, objective science (which starts from subjective axioms anyway). Opinions can change, they are not cast in stone, nor has Yahtzee ever claimed that his is. Thus there *is* no hypocrisy, flipflopping or what have you. His games may not correlate to his current work, but that is irrelevant since they happened before the animated series and reflect his opinion of that period rather than the current one.

 

[TerraMGP]

He does not streamline it, he starts giving the people more of what they want at the expense of his initial integrity, he gives the clambering wannabe indie masses their meat so they will follow him. And no it does not matter that he made an adventure game, Thats like saying its OK that Halo had a sucky plot because its a shooter. He still came up with an equally contrived and convoluted plot with the space he had and therefor regardless of genre he has no room to talk in that instance. People have to stop thinking in terms of Genre

 

[Proto Cloud]

Why don't we just all agree that Yahtzee makes reviews to entertain us by giving us what most of us want. That is: scathing, negative reviews. Like I said before the videos for Portal and Psychonauts weren't liked very much. While I don't like that he gives less consolation and less consolation as he goes on, I still wait patiently for the day he gets to do a game right again. If he doesn't, oh well, I guess I don't watch ZP anymore.

Though it's kinda sad that I can't trust any reviewer anymore, because all reviews seem to be entertainment these days...

 

[GeeDave]

TerraMGP, I think you're just embarrassing yourself now buddy. I mean you seem to think you're making valid comments. Most of the one's I have read have either been utterly pointless and just fuel for this flamewar, or easily defendable with a bit of better logic.

And no, I'm not going to copy/paste or quote more of your comments and then highlight problems. (as I did in one reply a page or two ago). It would be a waste of both my time and yours.

I will just say though, that everything you've said so far can be torn apart. If this was a card game you'd be at a severe loss of cards right now. The annoying thing is however, is that you probably don't believe me. And you'll continue to argue, and your points will be made redundant, and then you'll skip onto something similar and argue that.

Just stop. Hell, we all need to just sssshhhhh. It's almost depressing how the comments on Yahtzee's reviews degrade this community of very bright individuals.

 

[Proto Cloud]

Mmm. So you're just all show, I can dig it.

Nah, "all show" makes it sound like I'm somehow faking my personality or something. Honestly, I'm not that good of an actor.

Oh sir, but everyone is by nature an actor. Take a good look at how you act in different situations in life and tell me you're not an actor. Also I edited my previous comment.

 

[Magugag]

He does not streamline it, he starts giving the people more of what they want at the expense of his initial integrity, he gives the clambering wannabe indie masses their meat so they will follow him. And no it does not matter that he made an adventure game, Thats like saying its OK that Halo had a sucky plot because its a shooter. He still came up with an equally contrived and convoluted plot with the space he had and therefor regardless of genre he has no room to talk in that instance. People have to stop thinking in terms of Genre

Ok, show me some of your videogame reviews or I'm going to waive your right to criticize Yahtzee's videogame reviews. And if they're not good, I'm going to waive your right anyways. Hell, maybe even if I don't agree with them. By your logic all of that is perfectly reasonable. In fact, lemme see some of your videogames you've made or I'm gonna disregard all of your views on Metal Gear Solid 4. Seems fair, based on what you're saying.

 

[VeryOblivious]

He's not caving to the peer pressure of countless 10/10 reviews from other sites and rapid Metal Gear fans, and that makes him a sellout?

I'm confused.

The Escapist didn't hired him for his kindness toward games. Yahtzee - either he likes it or not - has become a public figure with a stablished "role". He's somewhat obliged to be harsh. Terran's point isn't that hard to understand, my friend.

 

[The Anonymous Mr P]

Thread! Thread!?

THHREEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAD!?!?

I've always liked the MGS series (not enough to buy a PS3, but there you go), and yet I found the review pretty god-damn fair, judging by admittedly-possibly-faulted other reviews. It more or less reflects the Edge magazine review, except with epic funnies and a good number of obscenities. I recommend anyone try and check it out, whether it in the future be uploaded on their website or whatever.

There is one good thing you can say about the series, though, which I'm (not very) surprised he didn't say: It's a game you can quite easily be as interested in by watching someone play it as playing it yourself.

Also, forgive me if I'm gravely misinformed, but hasn't the whole franchise-sequel churner more or less been against Kojima's wishes? As I understood it, didn't he want to drop it after MGS2? After all, feel free to tell me: Is there any boss in numero 4 in which some form of handstand while wirelessly linking the controller through the computer during the process of the autumn harvest required to possibly beat them? I didn't think so.

P.S: Don't blame Yahtzee for the increasingly rephresensible tactics of the Escapist. After all, they may be forced to show a clip show rerun sponsored by the good folks at Coca-Cola. Mmm-mmm, that's refreshing!

 

[TerraMGP]

He does not streamline it, he starts giving the people more of what they want at the expense of his initial integrity, he gives the clambering wannabe indie masses their meat so they will follow him. And no it does not matter that he made an adventure game, Thats like saying its OK that Halo had a sucky plot because its a shooter. He still came up with an equally contrived and convoluted plot with the space he had and therefor regardless of genre he has no room to talk in that instance. People have to stop thinking in terms of Genre

Ok, show me some of your videogame reviews or I'm going to waive your right to criticize Yahtzee's videogame reviews. And if they're not good, I'm going to waive your right anyways. Hell, maybe even if I don't agree with them. By your logic all of that is perfectly reasonable. In fact, lemme see some of your videogames you've made or I'm gonna disregard all of your views on Metal Gear Solid 4. Seems fair, based on what you're saying.

I don't review games because for the most part, it makes you like this. I was thrilled he had some integrity but now its gone. If that's what you need well, go back to being a mewling little fanboy for him. I'm out. You people won't keep Yatzee honest then you just enjoy your little hits of game-bashing and feeling Indie and walking along blindly. At this point its the same thing as G4

 

[GeeDave]

He's not caving to the peer pressure of countless 10/10 reviews from other sites and rapid Metal Gear fans, and that makes him a sellout?

I'm confused.

The Escapist didn't hired him for his kindness toward games. Yahtzee - either he likes it or not - has become a public figure with a stablished "role". He's somewhat obliged to be harsh. Terran's point isn't that hard to understand, my friend.

Haha, I just had to quote this... you sir (VeryOblivious, indeed), are quite possibly the stupidest person in this thread.

Edit
TerraMGP (again)... your logic was being used against you. And you failed to argue it, (quite possibly, because your logic is flawed) instead you come back with what appears to be a personal attack. Good one! Yeah that's a real fine way to win an argument. Valid points? Facts? Naaawww, Opinions and snidey little comments all the way!

Just a little recap... someone stepped into your shoes, used your logic to define an argument, you then reply with "I don't review games"... and you think that wins it for you? NO, you've just lost another metaphorical card!

 

[VeryOblivious]

Haha, I just had to quote this... you sir (VeryOblivious, indeed), are quite possibly the stupidest person in this thread.

And why is that?

 

[Magugag]

Yes, yes, more direct insults. Mewling fanboy indeed, because I don't believe Metal Gear Solid 4 is perfect and because I don't agree with the flawed logic you've presented? If you're going to base your opinion on the review based on Yahtzee's videogames, then I'm going to base my opinion of your opinion on your reviews, which are nil. Guess what, by your own weird logic, that makes your opinion? I most likely cannot write a good screenplay for a movie, say. It might turn out as bad and twisted as something by Ewe Boll (well no, not that bad). But that doesn't mean that I have lost my right to have an opinion on movies. You probably couldn't write a successful fantasy epic (who knows, maybe you could? I don't know you in person) yet I would still say that you have a right to an opinion about such a book without calling you a hypocrite.

As for Yahtzee pandering to audiences, I simply don't agree with that. If he was pandering to me, he'd have given all of the Final Fantasies glorious praise by now. It all goes down to how well you take criticism of something you enjoy, like it or not. His opinions are his opinions, and you can totally like a game and still hate its flaws. I prefer his pessimistic reviews coupled with the optimism of general media because if gives me a reference point for realism. However, I loved his praise of Psychonauts too, easily one of the most underappreciated gems ever. So believe what you want, but I have no fanatically devotion to Yahtzee or any hatred of the PS3. Seriously, the shrine I have to him is really small, more of a cubby than anything.

 

[TerraMGP]

you did not use my logic and I already explained why you did not, so sorry no. You missed my point, I TOLD you that you missed my point, and now your just harassing me because you apparently missed it. When you actually understand the hypocrisy I am pointing to we will talk.

I don't review games because for the most part, it makes you like this. I was thrilled he had some integrity but now its gone. If that's what you need well, go back to being a mewling little fanboy for him. I'm out. You people won't keep Yatzee honest then you just enjoy your little hits of game-bashing and feeling Indie and walking along blindly. At this point its the same thing as G4

....are you implying G4 once had integrity? I must have missed that.

Yahtzee isn't as bad as you make him sound, lighten up a little, okay? The heart of his reviews is still there, even if he is reviewing games he knows he'll hate just because people expect him to review them.

No they do not, but now he does not either. and I can't 'lighten up'. If he doesn't like them and knows he they have nothing to offer for him maybe he should not review them. Instead of catering to the fans he needs to simply just review what HE feels he should review and stop shifting his ideology to bash things simply because people want their proverbial mellon explosion

 

[VMerken]

He does not streamline it, he starts giving the people more of what they want at the expense of his initial integrity, he gives the clambering wannabe indie masses their meat so they will follow him.

And that's not streamlining because... ?

"At the expense of his initial integrity"... Question: did he have any integrity to begin with, or did he *seem* to have integrity because the first few videos were far from long enough to paint the whole picture?

Other question: in the context of video game "reviews", can one really speak of "integrity" to begin with? Due to the nature of the medium (video games), video game reviews are so subjective, so heavily based on personal playing experience, that I find it very, very difficult to speak of "integrity".

For example, I am quite specialised in "survival horror" games and played the snot out of most of them with decent proficiency, yet I cannot with good conscience claim that I have some sort of integrity to properly "review", "analyse" and "grade" survival horror games. The playing field is simply too diverse, my playing experience and way of playing a game not universal, etc ...

I find the Silent Hill series to be the best Survival Horror series on the market - does that make me a Konami sellout? Is my "integrity" compromised? I honestly do not know.

As for Yahtzee pandering to audiences, I simply don't agree with that.

He is pandering to a statistical average, aka the majority, The Average Gamer, the Gamer Which Maximises Click Click Click Traffic. Also, he is pandering to himself, trying to discover a modus operandi that works best for him. As such, don't expect him to be right up your alley 100% of the time .