A question to the grown adult men of the Escapist

[Hagi]

There's this thing called limits. Adults know them and they don't pass them.

if you're an adult, then you know you shouldn't take advantage of drunk people, because they might do something they'll regret in the morning. That's a limit too many "adults" are willing to cross.

The guy's likely a jerk, that should be clear.

But he's not a rapist.

The girl cheated and carries 100% responsibility for the cheating. The guy had no commitments to the OP, the girl had. She shouldn't have been that far past her limit.

The guy possibly took advantage of a drunk girl, depending on how drunk he was himself, he carries 100% responsibility for that. He shouldn't have taken advantage of the situation.

As has been said a dozen times before in this topic: it takes two to tango.

Judging purely by this situation and no other actions: he's a selfish jerk and she's a cheating *****.

 

[GiglameshSoulEater]

The situation would never be reversed.

Women don't have the same parts and/or responsibility shirking abilities as men either.

For a start, I utterly call bullshit on this. You really think that?
Then you, madam, are a fool.

Personally, I find both the parties at fault, and they both can basically deal with it.
Guy shouldn't have come on to her.
Girl should not have gotten so drunk.
50/50, and they are both idiots.

 

[Jadak]

"You come on to her asking if you can touch her. she agrees. she seems into it."

"Yes he had also been drinking, but I am of the type that believes, like some posters that being drunk doesn't excuse behavior."

So wait, being drunk doesn't excuse his behaviour, but it does for her?

If both were drunk, then there's not much else to be talked about. It's either an excuse for both of them, or none of them. If both were into it at the time, then both are to blame. It'd be different if she was actually passed out, but if she was sober enough to provide permission to be touched, and was into it to boot, then nobody is doing anything wrong.

Or rather, they're both doing something wrong, but equally so and the consequences are their own to deal with in the morning.

 

[intheweeds]

As far as blaming the man for initiating it? I don't buy it. I feel like (and this is speaking from a hypothetical drunken animalistic point of view, not sensible reasonable thinking) it was more her decision to have sex than his. She was surrounded by peers and friends. She could have very easily have said no at any point, and the entire interaction would have been over. She allowed him into her. He did not force his wee wee upon her, but merely presented said wee wee. This presentation could have occurred from him just standing there not even attempting to make a play. It's drunken logic, sure, but that was the situation. It's like vampires. They can only come in if you invite them. Are drunk girls somehow unable to say no and exempt from responsibility when they are taken advantage of by some dirty, dirty man?

None of that is even close to the situation here. Read the op thoroughly. She was not surrounded by peers, she had gone off to bed. She wasn't even hanging out with him. He had showed up late. apparently they spoke before hand during the party, but briefly. I'm not saying what your opinion should be, but you seem to be basing this one on very wrong facts.

Also in my opinion, and perhaps more importantly, yes actually sometimes drunk girls are unable to say no to some dirty dirty man. If you truly mean that, then i not only disagree with you i find your view morally reprehensible. Male or female you have a responsibility as a human being not to take advantage of drunk people.

 

[Hagi]

i see that you're an astonishing 21/22 years old.
it's wondrous how wise we think we are at that young age.
what's even more amazing is how foolish we realize we were...

you parrot the lines that you are told by alcohol-awareness groups.

a drink every other hour, be it a shot, glass of wine or a beer will leave the average person well under the legal BAC limit of .08% (PA). a 4-glass pitch at the start of the night (8-9pm) followed by food and soft-drinks until closing (1-2am, my local bars) will allow the liver to bring your BAC down to around the .04%-.06% range. it takes a healthy liver about an hour to lower the BAC by .02%

not only am i a Sadist, as i mentioned earlier, but i'm also a trained Bartender.

and as the OPs gf thought then she made plans to stay the night, when you're drinking with ppl you trust: have fun, get smashed if you think it's fun.


captcha: ride onsutu

I do not parrot any lines whatsoever. And I certainly will not be parroting your opinion like you desire me to. I will form my own opinion, thank you very much.

And the BAC limit is not a certain indicator of drunkenness. The amount of alcohol in your brain is what matters, not the amount in your blood. And while blood measures are the best we've got they're not perfect.

Drinking as you describe will give you a BAC that's just fine, your brain however won't be doing that well. You'll be far from smashes of course and 99% of people will do perfectly fine, the BAC is intentionally set quite low. But in that situation your BAC won't be representative of your actual intoxication.

And if you don't mind I'll put more value in sources from actual psychiatrists who deal with alcoholics and doctors who deal with human physiology over those of a mere bartender. See, I can be condescending over side-matters like age or profession as well.

And I'm sure the OPs GF had fun, as clearly evidenced by the fact she can't stop crying. Getting smashes carries consequences, be sure you can handle them before you actually get smashed.

She's in a committed relationship, that means you make some sacrifices like not getting totally smashed in order to avoid hurting the people you care about. If you want to get smashed anyway that's fine, just have the decency of breaking up your committed relationship first because you'd rather get drunk.

 

[teisjm]

As for the guilt of cheating on her partner, she's the one guilty, not the dude.
While i wouldn't have sex with a girl i knew had a serious partner myself, you (you in a rethorical sense) cannot blame your fucking around on the people you do it with, they're not the ones breaking the bonds of trust between you and your partner, you are.
If she was a friend of his, he's equally quilty of messing up her relationship, not responsible to you as her partner, but responsible to her, as her friend.

As for sleeping with someone that drunk, i would consider it a no-go.
And depending on the situation, immoral at least, abusive at worst.
Then again, if both parts are equally drunk, they're equally guilty of taking advantage of each others drunkness.
If a two drunk people sleeps together, they're equally abusing the others state of intoxication, This is not a one-way thing, where only men can be the baddies.
It takes two to tango, and no-one if no-one was forcing, or in a possition to take unfair advantage of the other, they're equally responsible for the consequenses, even if they apply mainly to one of them
If the intoxication excuses her from responsibility for her own actions, his does to the same extend, and it's not like she was passed out.

IF you wanna do the scale thing, and i assume he was drunk as well, not focing her, and she was conscious enough to willinly do it, and not just too drunk to decline, i'd say he's at a 5, since he doesn'tshow any less respect for the girl than she herself does. He's not abusing her, leaving him as the smaller man, but he doesn't step up as the bigger man either, taking the moral high-ground. The less intoxicated he was compared to what i think, and what she was, the worse this would be.

 

[Airsoftslayer93]

Edit 2: I am of the type that believes, like some posters that being drunk doesn't excuse behavior.

But her drunkeness excuses hers? she is pissed, if she goes of and sleeps with someone else then thats her fault, just because she was drunk doesnt mean she couldnt have said no.

 

[ChuQue37]

Fuck being an adult.

Fuck responsibility.

Fuck committed relationships.

Fuck limits.

I don't understand the appeal of these things to you people. If she enjoyed herself, and he enjoyed himself, then there's no problem.

If the OP was wounded by these goings-on, that's his/her problem. OP needs to deal.

"But the girl was in a committed relationship with me!"

Sometimes people lie. Deal with it.

"But it shouldn't be that way!"

Yet it is. Deal.

If the girl feels remorseful the next day, she made a mistake that she has to deal with, and if she wants to salvage the relationship, she needs to make amends.

The measure of how responsible the guy was is by how bad he feels. He owes nothing to either of you, but, should he still wish to remain contact, he fucked up.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

None of that is even close to the situation here. Read the op thoroughly. She was not surrounded by peers, she had gone off to bed. She wasn't even hanging out with him. He had showed up late. apparently they spoke before hand during the party, but briefly. I'm not saying what your opinion should be, but you seem to be basing this one on very wrong facts.

Also in my opinion, and perhaps more importantly, yes actually sometimes drunk girls are unable to say no to some dirty dirty man. If you truly mean that, then i not only disagree with you i find your view morally reprehensible. Male or female you have a responsibility as a human being not to take advantage of drunk people.

To be fair, your OP is a little light on the details and a little heavy on the editorial bias. As the wronged girlfriend of the woman in question, you are...how can I put this...a less than reliable narrator when it comes to assessing intent and character of the individuals involved. I suspect you recognize that, which is why you're asking a bunch of strangers on the internet for their opinions in the first place.

We don't really have a good idea of how drunk either one of them was. She's apparently an 8-9 on a scale you made up on the spot, but that doesn't tell us much. We know even less about how drunk he was, and on what scale. We don't know if he was encouraged or invited to come back to her room with her, or if he burst in unannounced and made his overtures while looming over her.

It's hard to get a bead on these situations when the original story has already undergone 4 edits, and could probably stand to undergo another half dozen, and when the person doing the editing is emotionally invested in the situation and about as far from objective when it comes to the details as it's possible to get.

Upon first read, it sounded like "drunk girl made bad decision, regretted it later". After several edits it sounds like "drunk girl possibly taken advantage of by persistent and creepy partygoer". After four more edits it might sound like "drunk girl forcibly raped by long time stalker", and everyone who replied blaming the girl suddenly come off like monsters.

There was plenty of evidence in your OP to suggest your girlfriend carries more than her share of the responsibility for what happened. If the details suggest that this guy muscled into his room and badgered her into sex, though, then you don't need to be in here asking us what we think. You need to be with her down at the local police station filing charges.

 

[red the fister]

i snip
captcha: ride onsutu

I do not parrot any lines whatsoever. And I certainly will not be parroting your opinion like you desire me to. I will form my own opinion, thank you very much.

And the BAC limit is not a certain indicator of drunkenness. The amount of alcohol in your brain is what matters, not the amount in your blood. And while blood measures are the best we've got they're not perfect.

Drinking as you describe will give you a BAC that's just fine, your brain however won't be doing that well. You'll be far from smashes of course and 99% of people will do perfectly fine, the BAC is intentionally set quite low. But in that situation your BAC won't be representative of your actual intoxication.

And if you don't mind I'll put more value in sources from actual psychiatrists who deal with alcoholics and doctors who deal with human physiology over those of a mere bartender. See, I can be condescending over side-matters like age or profession as well.

And I'm sure the OPs GF had fun, as clearly evidenced by the fact she can't stop crying. Getting smashes carries consequences, be sure you can handle them before you actually get smashed.

She's in a committed relationship, that means you make some sacrifices like not getting totally smashed in order to avoid hurting the people you care about. If you want to get smashed anyway that's fine, just have the decency of breaking up your committed relationship first because you'd rather get drunk.

i'm utterly certain that the ops gf went out with the though "i'mma get bombed and fuck my bosses brother in law!"
i'm sure she thought that she could trust her co-workers, and i bet that they are actually trustworthy. then an ass-hat showed up - possibly with the sole intention of fucking her!

getting smashed with People You Can Trust is somewhat different than going stag to a rave.
not saying that all ravers are criminal scum, but just like some of the regulars at my local pub, some of them are. hehehe, probably a smaller percentage of criminals at the raves!

last time i got smashed, my cock wound up in a gay mans mouth. i was with 4 of my best friends, and their gay friend.

i have 4 fewer friends.

trust me kid, i know the consequences of drinking until self control is gone. it'll be years before i trust anyone enough to get bat-shit retardedly drunk. used to do it all the time, worst consequence was a hangover that lasted until it was time to gtfo of work. and i was fine with that

 

[Ekonk]

Urrr. A 9. As in "horribly gruesome thing to do". It's not a ten because he doesn't rape her. Still, it's morally totally wrong.

 

[LegendofHugh]

I have had very drunk girls proposition me on two occasions. Both times I declined as I was sober at one time and only had a couple of drinks at the other. I was simply raised to always be respectful to women. Some of my friends give me crap about this because I'm a 20-year-old virgin who has had the chance to lose it before, but I am steadfast in my stance of waiting for the right girl.

If the girl is wasted, no matter how much she wants to (or drunkenly think she wants to) have sex, a gentleman must turn her down, and more than that, watch out for her.

 

[Spud of Doom]

I'd probably put that as around a 7. It's unacceptable in my eyes, but ultimately it is still the girl in question's responsibility to remain faithful to her partner since she is the one who is in a committed relationship; said man is not.

 

[Hagi]

i'm utterly certain that the ops gf went out with the though "i'mma get bombed and fuck my bosses brother in law!"
i'm sure she thought that she could trust her co-workers, and i bet that they are actually trustworthy. then an ass-hat showed up - possibly with the sole intention of fucking her!

getting smashed with People You Can Trust is somewhat different than going stag to a rave.
not saying that all ravers are criminal scum, but just like some of the regulars at my local pub, some of them are. hehehe, probably a smaller percentage of criminals at the raves!

last time i got smashed, my cock wound up in a gay mans mouth. i was with 4 of my best friends, and their gay friend.

i have 4 fewer friends.

trust me kid, i know the consequences of drinking until self control is gone. it'll be years before i trust anyone enough to get bat-shit retardedly drunk. used to do it all the time, worst consequence was a hangover that lasted until it was time to gtfo of work. and i was fine with that

I'm not saying you can't get bat-shit retardedly drunk, by all means do so if you want to.

But if you end up cheating on your girlfriend or with your cock in a gay man's mouth then realize that you're carrying your half or the responsibility of that action. You cheated and you put your cock in that mouth, you did that. Nobody else.

Even if the guy pressured her in her drunken state and even if your friends somehow tricked you into whipping your cock out you still carry the responsibility for putting yourself into a position where that was possible.

Don't treat getting bat-shit retardedly drunk as a somehow mature and responsible thing to do. It's either immature, depressive or alcoholic. That's what it is. Life ain't perfect so sometimes people act immature, depressive or even alcoholic. That's fine. But don't dress it up as something else.

And in some stages of your life there's less room for acting immature, depressive or alcoholic. If you're invested in a monogamous serious relationship then there's less room for acting that way, you've a commitment to another person to keep. If you're a parent there's even less room for acting that way, you've a responsibility to your child to keep. etc. etc. etc.

The OPs girlfriend intentionally put herself into a situation where she could no longer rely on her own judgement. She intentionally put herself into a situation where she could seriously hurt the OP. And the only reason she did so is to have some cheap fun with booze.

If you're the type that puts some cheap fun with booze (which is totally fine in appropriate situations, like not living together with a person you love) above the feelings of your partner then you're not ready for such a serious relationship. And I think the best thing to do would be to break it off.