A question to the grown adult men of the Escapist

[Hagi]

I mean she repeatedly asked him if he had a condom.... Obviously she did not object.

Incorrect. Right through to the Supreme Court this has been shown NOT to be considered a sign of consent, it is often an attempt to minimize injury.

Do you seriously not interpret this:

You come on to her asking if you can touch her. she agrees. she seems into it. She asks you several times if you have a condom and you say no, but have sex with her anyway. She doesn't stop you.

as consent? Realizing that the guy was very likely also drunk and thus not of the best judgement.

If a girl "seems into it" when you're touching her, then asks you several times if you have a condom and doesn't do anything whatsoever to stop you in any way or form I count that as consent.

There's no reason at all from the OP to suspect there's any type of threats or violence involved. The story seems this:

- Drunken guy comes up to drunken girl's room.
- Drunken guy asks drunken girl if he can feel her up.
- Drunken girl says yes.
- Drunken guy feels drunken girl up.
- Drunken girl reacts positively to being felt up.
- Drunken girl asks drunken guy if he has a condom.
- Drunken guy says no but continues feeling her up.
- Drunken girl asks again.
- Drunken guy says no again and keeps feeling her up.
- Drunken guy takes it further.
- Drunken girl does not object.
- Drunken guy and drunken girl have sex.

That sounds like two normal people with little self-control having sex. Both acting immature and irresponsible. Only difference being that he was likely single while she was in a 4 year relationship and living together with another person.

 

[Scars Unseen]

So essentially this is a story of two drunk people having sex, as reported by someone who wasn't there. In my opinion this is less about the guy and more about the situation. If the girl went to the party with friends, got drunk with friends, and then ended up alone being hit on by the guy, then she has shitty friends. The actual... erm... event... is pretty much what happens when drunk people get together, have a good time, and have easily accessible private space. Take away all personal association and look at this from a longer view. Did he make the initial overtures? Reportedly yes. But doesn't someone have to initiate something for sex to happen? Unless he was purposefully taking advantage of her drunken state - and that isn't clear here - This was a fairly normal situation, with the unfortunate detail of one of the two people being in a relationship.

 

[omega 616]

snip

The way I see it and from reading all of your edits (which didn't change my number ruling) it's a 5, she is also a 5 so it makes a 10. I know you never asked for the female part but I thought I would throw it in there anyway.

I don't drink, at all ... ever. So my understanding of it's effects are somewhat limited to (I will admit) slightly biased views made out by the media.

I do know that the chances of having sex increase about a billion fold when both parties are drunk, beer goggles and the numerous jokes about waking up next to ugly people. So he isn't a 10 for that reason.

So He isn't scum 'cos beer has some effect on peoples junk but he isn't totally without blame, from my understanding beer tends to make people behave how they want to without booze, there just to chicken to do so. The girl didn't stop it so she obviously has some blame on her so saying he is a 1 is out of the question.

Numbers 2,3,4 and 6,7,8,9 don't make any sense 'cos it sounds like the blame shifts to each person depending on which side of 5 you fall, 5+ is more guys fault than girls, sub 5 is girls fault more than guys and I don't see how that's the case.

Then again, I seem to hold a rather unique out look on guys view on sex. I think locker room talk (as well as what I call "sex in the city talk") is far too personnel to be chatting about casually.

 

[winter2]

I'm not entirely convinced she would NEVAH entertain those actions if she was sober.

To be frank, they were both at fault and making up excuses for her (She was so drunk she didn't know what she was doing) will not help long term at all.

I say if it is a big enough problem for you then dump her. Pure and simple. If not, keep her around, but don't be surprised if it happens again.

 

[ShadowsofHope]

I would not sleep with a drunk girl regardless of situation, too sloppy and she is hardly paying attention to me.

Though I will say now, if I ever meet a girl that wants to enter a relationship with me, but is entering it with the logic that "all men are potential rapists in waiting", then I am going to cut all the potential relationship cords right there and then. That is just fucking insulting, and I have already been demonized simply for my gender before we even get anywhere with the relationship.

"All women are potential rapists in waiting" is just as accurate of a statement. Or even better, "every human being on the planet capable of sexual conduct is a potential rapist in waiting".

 

[CannibalCorpses]

Sexual assault does not require physical injuries. In Canada where this happened, "consent" is an affirmative defense, meaning all burden is on the accused to make his case that he had consent in court.

That is totally outrageous. So anyone could accuse me of rape and i would have to prove my innocence or be assumed to be guilty? Is there any burden of proof for the accuser? DNA evidence or anything like that?

Here in England its innocent until proven guilty and thank common sense for that

Anyway, this just highlights the differences between our nations and why our perspectives are entirely different. It's as pointless as arguing human rights with Adolf Hitler

 

[SyphonX]

An 8, out of 10.

Eight because she said "yes", technically. Still doesn't make it right, but it's at least better than "No" and doing it anyway, and "No" followed by a brutal rape.

Disgusting anyway.

But here's the thing. Ever hear of the phrase, "You are the company you keep."? That applies here. Don't go to random parties, passing out drunk. Don't even pass out drunk around people you're unfamiliar with. Or better yet, don't get "drunk" at all.

It's not a case of, "She got was coming to her." Not at all, I'm not that callous. But there are limits, and if you keep up this habit of getting drunk until your cognitive abilities are completely impaired, then you have a serious problem. No, "getting drunk" and thus, "Having fun" is not a valid excuse. It's not even a "normal" lifestyle to do this sort of thing, and contrary to popular belief, not all "young people" do this as a 'rite of passage'.

I wouldn't dare getting drunk near women, as a male. Why? Because if I was at a party where something like this occurred, then I could be falsely accused of something I didn't do. Disgusting women like this tend to congregate at drunken parties, as well as the sleaze-bag males they associate with. They could ruin a man's life by merely pointing a finger at any male and saying "no consent". Get a feminist sympathetic judge, and it's over.

No thanks.

Learn to drink responsibly, or at least learn to hold your liquor.

 

[The Unworthy Gentleman]

Her mouth said no but her body said yes.

I give this a 2 or a 3.

He did nothing actually wrong. He was drunk, she was drunk; he asked for sex, she said no; he went for sex, she gave it to him.

On a scale of 1-10 for how disrespectful to you this ordeal is, it gets an 8. You decide on the punishment, but whatever way you look at it she cheated on you and that'll eat away at the both of you.

 

[ks1234]

Im not reading through all of this text but I read the OP and I gotta say, i'm pretty torn. The way I look at it is...
A. If she was drunk (hammered even)... she still saying "yes" and she's enjoying it even.
B. We all make decisions we regret... the decision she made was getting hammered and telling me "yes" (WHICH IS NOT GODDAMN RAPE)... if she doesn't like that decision in the morning, well, she shouldn't of gotten that drunk.
C. If it's some chick I know and/or care about, if it's a friend of mines gf/chick he's interested in, or if she's ugly... it's hands off... bc that's a decision I will regret in the morning... lmao.

 

[Slayer_2]

First off, that sucks, OP. Second, as a 19-year old guy, I think that the guy is in the wrong for three big reasons:

1) He got involved with someone who is in a relationship.

2) He tried to have sex with someone who is way too drunk. Being drunk yourself doesn't excuse that in my eyes, despite what society might think.

3) He didn't practise safe sex, and now he risks STD's or pregnancy. If she is on the pill and they know each other well (read, know they are both clean), this wouldn't be a big deal.

On your scale, I'd say this guy is a 7, if he does this kind of shit regularly. Booze and having a penis can make controlling yourself hard, but still, having sex with someone you know is in a relationship is unacceptable, in my eyes.

One last side note, and this is gonna sound horrible, I know. I apologize in advance. If you are female and your partner is too, then the guy may have been facing the "lesbian challenge" as I term it. Some guys, when they know a girl is a lesbian (or bi, in some cases), they feel the need to try to "fix" her. I suppose they think that the girl is lesbian because she has had bad experiences with guys in the past, and they think they have what it takes to "correct" that. I know two different guys who have gone through this at least once or twice, and not matter how much I told them they were being assholes, they both tried to sleep with a lesbian. Neither of them succeeded, but they were still being jerks regardless. There is also the chance that he didn't see your relationship as a "real" relationship since it isn't between a male and female.

Situation described in this thread: OMG rape

Situation described in this thread if the genders were reversed: lol awesome

Of course, how often does a girl get drunk and try to convince a drunk guy to have sex with her? Then tell him to forget the condom, she doesn't care about getting pregnant, she just wants to have sex. The answer: almost never.

 

[Slayer_2]

Of course, how often does a girl get drunk and try to convince a drunk guy to have sex with her? Then tell him to forget the condom, she doesn't care about getting pregnant, she just wants to have sex. The answer: almost never.

So what I've seen is isolated cases then. Okay.

Not saying it never happens. But on the grand scale of things, what do you think the percentage is? Maybe 0.01% of the times shit like that happens, it's the girl who initiates it.

 

[The Unworthy Gentleman]

Your name is well chosen.

For centuries a woman orgasming during sex, or not having enough bruises, was proof she wanted it. And of course no man could be raped by a women because if he was hard he wanted it.

Then most civilized people came to understand that's not how human bodies actually work.

I think you're disagreeing with me, although I hope you aren't. If you are then I didn't convey my point right.

I'm saying that what he did wasn't wrong, it wasn't right, but it wasn't wrong. She conscientiously objected to it, saying she didn't want to have sex (or so the story goes) but, giving way for destroyed inhibitions, he pushed for sex and she consented.

Now I'm no lawyer so I wouldn't know if this is rape or not, but morally this isn't much of an issue. I'm sure that he would have accepted that no had he been sober and I'm sure that she wouldn't have had sex with him if she'd been sober, but they weren't and they did.

I'm not saying what he did wasn't wrong, but I am saying it wasn't wrong in the sense I infer the OP to mean.

 

[Motiv_]

They're both to blame. If you agree to get so completely and utterly drunk that you're incapable of reasonable judgement, then you're responsible for your own actions. I'd put the guy at about an 8..? Maybe a 9 because I'm not feeling rather merciful tonight. But the woman is hardly free and innocent herself.

Situation described in this thread: OMG rape

Situation described in this thread if the genders were reversed: lol awesome

Of course, how often does a girl get drunk and try to convince a drunk guy to have sex with her? Then tell him to forget the condom, she doesn't care about getting pregnant, she just wants to have sex. The answer: almost never.

I disagree. This is actually a pretty common deal around here[footnote]NC[/footnote], unfortunately.