A question to the grown adult men of the Escapist

[Slayer_2]

Of course, how often does a girl get drunk and try to convince a drunk guy to have sex with her? Then tell him to forget the condom, she doesn't care about getting pregnant, she just wants to have sex. The answer: almost never.

So what I've seen is isolated cases then. Okay.

Not saying it never happens. But on the grand scale of things, what do you think the percentage is? Maybe 0.01% of the times shit like that happens, it's the girl who initiates it.

I'll definitely admit that guys do it more often. But one in ten thousand? No fucking way.

Maybe 1 in 10,000 is high, maybe it's low. Either way, it's arguing a technicality. Men are more interested in sex than women, and will do very stupid things to get it.

 

[Slayer_2]

They're both to blame. If you agree to get so completely and utterly drunk that you're incapable of reasonable judgement, then you're responsible for your own actions. I'd put the guy at about an 8..? Maybe a 9 because I'm not feeling rather merciful tonight. But the woman is hardly free and innocent herself.

Situation described in this thread: OMG rape

Situation described in this thread if the genders were reversed: lol awesome

Of course, how often does a girl get drunk and try to convince a drunk guy to have sex with her? Then tell him to forget the condom, she doesn't care about getting pregnant, she just wants to have sex. The answer: almost never.

I disagree. This is actually a pretty common deal around here, unfortunately.

Maybe I just live in an old fashioned place where only men do that kind of stuff, who knows. Fact is, I've heard of men doing that kind of stuff dozens of times over, but never heard of a woman doing it.

 

[Mookowicz]

The very notion of being an adult is that we shoulder moral responsibility for ourselves and our treatment of each other in every circumstance. It's a responsibility that we can't ever put down and if we can't cope with that, then we're not adults.

These two adults failed their basic responsibilities. In having unprotected sex without her consent, the guy failed himself and her. In allowing a sexual encounter that she was too drunk to manage, the girl also failed herself and him. We can't absolve our own responsibilities by pointing out anothers' faults.

 

[Elzam]

I believe the unfortunate truth is they're both to blame... as much as we'd all like to say "A woman should have just as much right to get shitfaced and not worry about getting raped" it's the world we live in, and she wasn't even raped, she didn't even stop him. believe me I know people who'd jump at the chance to take advantage of a drunk girl it's just how it is. I'll assume that the guy had been drinking also... but did he know you were in a relationship with her?

and if he didn't know you were in a relationship with her how could you try to blame this more on him than her... its your friends responsibility to take care of herself... and if she never once said no you can't hardly blame him for trying, unless he was completely sober, knew you 2 were dating, and DTF... I don't know I mean He's not someone I'd spend time with but if you're honestly trying to shift the blame good luck... because I'd say it's more her fault for putting herself in to this situation... you almost got to assume there is assholes out there looking for it... and she didn't stop him even if he was one...

 

[Motiv_]

They're both to blame. If you agree to get so completely and utterly drunk that you're incapable of reasonable judgement, then you're responsible for your own actions. I'd put the guy at about an 8..? Maybe a 9 because I'm not feeling rather merciful tonight. But the woman is hardly free and innocent herself.

Situation described in this thread: OMG rape

Situation described in this thread if the genders were reversed: lol awesome

Of course, how often does a girl get drunk and try to convince a drunk guy to have sex with her? Then tell him to forget the condom, she doesn't care about getting pregnant, she just wants to have sex. The answer: almost never.

I disagree. This is actually a pretty common deal around here, unfortunately.

Maybe I just live in an old fashioned place where only men do that kind of stuff, who knows. Fact is, I've heard of men doing that kind of stuff dozens of times over, but never heard of a woman doing it.

Yeah, I can understand that. Might just be where we both live, though I will agree that men are the majority. I just disagree that they're the mass majority. To each his own though.

 

[Slayer_2]

They're both to blame. If you agree to get so completely and utterly drunk that you're incapable of reasonable judgement, then you're responsible for your own actions. I'd put the guy at about an 8..? Maybe a 9 because I'm not feeling rather merciful tonight. But the woman is hardly free and innocent herself.

Situation described in this thread: OMG rape

Situation described in this thread if the genders were reversed: lol awesome

Of course, how often does a girl get drunk and try to convince a drunk guy to have sex with her? Then tell him to forget the condom, she doesn't care about getting pregnant, she just wants to have sex. The answer: almost never.

I disagree. This is actually a pretty common deal around here, unfortunately.

Maybe I just live in an old fashioned place where only men do that kind of stuff, who knows. Fact is, I've heard of men doing that kind of stuff dozens of times over, but never heard of a woman doing it.

Yeah, I can understand that. Might just be where we both live, though I will agree that men are the majority. I just disagree that they're the mass majority. To each his own though.

Exactly. And I couldn't agree more, think what you like

 

[zelda2fanboy]

None of that is even close to the situation here. Read the op thoroughly. She was not surrounded by peers, she had gone off to bed. She wasn't even hanging out with him. He had showed up late. apparently they spoke before hand during the party, but briefly. I'm not saying what your opinion should be, but you seem to be basing this one on very wrong facts.

Also in my opinion, and perhaps more importantly, yes actually sometimes drunk girls are unable to say no to some dirty dirty man. If you truly mean that, then i not only disagree with you i find your view morally reprehensible. Male or female you have a responsibility as a human being not to take advantage of drunk people.

I did read the OP thoroughly, but I missed that line in the yada-yada-yada details. So wait, you actually didn't see this happen? How can you hold what she has to say to be reliable at all? How can she even consider herself a reliable witness to the event?

And no one holds a "responsibility as a human being to not take advantage of drunk people." I personally wouldn't because I truly don't like them. But if you expect the rest of the world to be held up to some invisible moral standard, you are sorely mistaken. My recommendation? Never drink or do drugs ever again. You and your friends clearly do not understand the ramifications. Not only will "dirty, dirty men" try to take unfair advantage of you, but so will your local police force.

"But officer, I was drunk! You can't arrest a drunk girl! C'mon, man! How can you expect me to steer this car when I'm hammered? I'm a girl!"

 

[Slayer_2]

Of course, how often does a girl get drunk and try to convince a drunk guy to have sex with her? Then tell him to forget the condom, she doesn't care about getting pregnant, she just wants to have sex. The answer: almost never.

So what I've seen is isolated cases then. Okay.

Not saying it never happens. But on the grand scale of things, what do you think the percentage is? Maybe 0.01% of the times shit like that happens, it's the girl who initiates it.

I'll definitely admit that guys do it more often. But one in ten thousand? No fucking way.

Maybe 1 in 10,000 is high, maybe it's low. Either way, it's arguing a technicality. Men are more interested in sex than women, and will do very stupid things to get it.

That's not true either.

It's societal BS.

"Societal BS", as you call it, has a huge effect on how people behave. Not saying it's a good thing, but it's a fact.

 

[lizards]

nope nope nope nope, i stopped reading when i was made aware that not only her but he was drunk as well

you drink, you get drunk, your fault and not a single other persons, you dont like it? dont drink

i really dont understand how ANYONE can dispute this, you made the choice to drink and we dont let murders or rapists get a pass when they do it while drunk

 

[Akukaishi]

I'm going to rate him "D" for "D-Bag" and shirk your pesky number scale. I hope that helps. But it probably doesn't.

 

[Zobran Fobran]

and she wasn't even raped, she didn't even stop him.

I believe the unfortunate truth is they're both to blame... as much as we'd all like to say "A woman should have just as much right to get shitfaced and not worry about getting raped" it's the world we live in, and she wasn't even raped, she didn't even stop him. believe me I know people who'd jump at the chance to take advantage of a drunk girl it's just how it is. I'll assume that the guy had been drinking also... but did he know you were in a relationship with her?

and if he didn't know you were in a relationship with her how could you try to blame this more on him than her... its your friends responsibility to take care of herself... and if she never once said no you can't hardly blame him for trying, unless he was completely sober, knew you 2 were dating, and DTF... I don't know I mean He's not someone I'd spend time with but if you're honestly trying to shift the blame good luck... because I'd say it's more her fault for putting herself in to this situation... you almost got to assume there is assholes out there looking for it... and she didn't stop him even if he was one...

She *WAS* raped. A person who is on the border of "Passing out Drooling" is not in a state where they can consent to having sex. Sex without consent is rape. A person initiating sex with a person who has not consented is a rapist. This is very straight forward.

No Consent + Sex = Rape
Intoxicated just short of "Passed out Drooling" = Cannot Give Consent

There was no consent given, because she could not consent. He initiated sex with her. He belongs in prison. There is no "mutual blame" here.

No his being drunk doesn't absolve him.
Yes, it'd be exactly the same if the sexes of the parties involved were reversed.

 

[Slayer_2]

"Societal BS", as you call it, has a huge effect on how people behave. Not saying it's a good thing, but it's a fact.

What I mean is that, Biologically, they aren't less interested. They just discouraged from being open about it.

Oh, of course. In an ideal world, it wouldn't be so, but in reality, that's the way it is. Guys are down for sex 24/7, and girls hate it and only do it to make guys happy. Hopefully such notions will deteriorate over time.

 

[Stublore]

I mean she repeatedly asked him if he had a condom.... Obviously she did not object.

Incorrect. Right through to the Supreme Court this has been shown NOT to be considered a sign of consent, it is often an attempt to minimize injury.

Do you seriously not interpret this:

You come on to her asking if you can touch her. she agrees. she seems into it. She asks you several times if you have a condom and you say no, but have sex with her anyway. She doesn't stop you.

as consent? Realizing that the guy was very likely also drunk and thus not of the best judgement.

The fact that he is drunk is explicitedly not allowed to be considered under the law.

She was drunk, which 100% excludes her from giving consent in Canada.

In the scenario, if both were sober, there was no explicit consent given. Thus, the court would have to determine he took reasonable and effective steps to determine consent and if a reasonable person would have agreed consent was given. However, that doesn't apply here since she was drunk.

I'm a bit confused by this, is there a way in law to determine if a man has given consent, or does the issue of consent only apply to women?
If a drunk bloke has sex with a sober woman, is he able to give consent?

 

[Hexenwolf]

-snip-

Well, there's at least one more question that would need to be answered before I could give a definitive response. How drunk was he?

For example, if he was sober, that's rape. And I don't just mean that morally, (though it is), I mean he can be charged and convicted of rape in a court of law. However, you said he was also drinking, so it's not that cut and dried.

If he was just tipsy, then it's absolutely awful, a 9 on the scale, and it's squarely his fault. Just as bad as if he had been sober.

If he was genuinely drunk, then it's still pretty bad, but, it's more reasonable. He definitely shouldn't have done it, and it's still possible to recognize that an idea is bad when you're drunk, it just takes a lot more willpower to prevent yourself from doing it. A 6 or so.

However, if he was flat out smashed, well then, he has the same amount of responsibility as the girl. When people are that impaired they do things they would literally never do at any other time. You said you had an experience with a drunk girl throwing herself at you, well, the exact same thing just with a guy. Only your girlfriend wasn't sober enough to say no. That said, alcohol ultimately just lowers inhibitions, so somewhere deep down inside, he wanted to do it (though, again, equal responsibility). A 3, or maybe a 4.

Just as a note, no matter how drunk someone is, if they're the type of person you can describe as "extremely sweet and respectful towards women", then they would never do something like this.

So that's my response, you can figure out for yourself which one applies.

 

[Sangreal Gothcraft]

been in situations when that has happened to me...though i was sober and the girl was asking for me to well do the do..i said " woman your drunk go away" She was annoying and annoyed the crap outta me...so yeah screw that..drunk girls are annoying asking for it is more annoying when they are drunk...and disgusting as well.

 

[Cain_Zeros]

He's definitely a douche bag. Especially if he knew she was in a relationship. I mean, she's not blameless either, if she can't control herself around guys when she's wasted she shouldn't have been that drunk, and if she can she should've said "no".

 

[Helscreama]

You don't take advantage of a practically passed out girl, especially if you consider them a friend and visa versa