All JRPG needs to be liked again is to be gritty.

[Paradoxrifts]

At this late stage the people who're still holding a candle for the Japanese video game industry remind me strongly of children who're convinced that they can get their divorced parents back together again. Western games were never popular in Japan. The tastes of mainstream gamers in the West have moved from the period that they overlapped with what was being released by the Japanese industry.

Just accept that it's over already, then move on.

 

[Lilani]

At this late stage the people who're still holding a candle for the Japanese video game industry remind me strongly of children who're convinced that they can get their divorced parents back together again. Western games were never popular in Japan. The tastes of mainstream gamers in the West have moved from the period that they overlapped with what was being released by the Japanese industry.

Just accept that it's over already, then move on.

So, which Japanese gamemakers are posting losses like EA, or going bankrupt like THQ? Because I can't think of any, and it's really making me scratch my head every time people talk about gloom and doom for JRPGs. Everyone keeps saying they're on the decline, but I can't see it. All I see is more people than ever before telling me I need to play games like Persona and Professor Layton and Catherine.

EDIT: It seems in the early morning haze of my mind I may have misread this. Now I see you're saying that "it's over" in regards to western and Japanese games having a lot in common. Never mind then, my bad~

 

[Padwolf]

I play JRPG's because they are not gritty and are far from it. The only problem I have with JRPG's is the characters. Keep in mind that all this is really my opinion. Take Chie from Persona 4. At the moment I cannot stand her, she is one of the most annoying characters I have ever come across. I hope she gets better, I'm only a few hours in, just started playing yesterday. Another set of annoying characters would be the two kids in Lost Odyssey. Yes they come from a tragic moment and all that jazz but they were still highly annoying. The same with Final Fantasy games; Vaan in Final Fantasy 12, many of the characters in FF13. And a lot of the time I do not enjoy the whole "strong and silent and broody type" hero's. JRPG's don't need to be grittier, the reason I play them is because they are not gritty. I didn't even know that they weren't liked, I thought they were loved just as much as any other type of game.

Edit: Hold the phone. Go and play Lost Odyssey, OP. Go and play that and come back to me and tell me it was childish. Oh and Bastion. Go and give that a whirl too. And a load of others I can list that don't have much political intrigue and yet are still part of my list of favourite games

O MAI GAWD!

Padding! When did you start playing my #1 favourite game of all time?! PS2 or Vita re-release? Have you gotten to the first proper dungeon yet? (because the first 1 and a half/2 hours is literally scrolling text and dialogue choices peppered with save points, it's fucking hype) and goddammit everyone is supposed to love Chie! She's adorable :3

Anyway people typically complain more about Yosuke. He's kind of a dick sometimes.

I didn't even have to nag you into it. I now just need Rookie to stop creating shitty puns and actually play the damn thing.

"Lol Shitsona 4!"

[sub]Best jokes EU[/sub]

I only started playing it about two days ago. It's the original PS2 version I'm still not very far in D: not even at the first dungeon! I don't know, I just find Chie to be a bit too abbrasive and just plain annoying with it. I think Yosuke is alright though It is a good game, I should play more of it today You should nag Rookie into it, it is really good

 

[The Wykydtron]

I only started playing it about two days ago. It's the original PS2 version I'm still not very far in D: not even at the first dungeon! I don't know, I just find Chie to be a bit too abbrasive and just plain annoying with it. I think Yosuke is alright though It is a good game, I should play more of it today You should nag Rookie into it, it is really good

*Best Jayce impression*

Cannag, engaged!

All I can say with Chie is, THINGS HAPPEN! COOL THINGS! WITH CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT AND SHIT!

[sub]So hype[/sub]

 

[Cid Silverwing]

No.

What JRPG's REALLY need in order to stop sucking is to stop being about androgynous teenagers of ambiguous genders, stupid hairdos and wangst (look it up). Like what Final Fantasy was before it hit 7.

 

[Snotnarok]

Xenogears one of the greats? I think everyone forgets how the quality of that game dips down greatly at the 3/4ths mark of the 1st disc when they ran out of budget. Then the rest of the game became walls of text.

OT:
Better JRPGs? Stop with the bullshit melodrama with emo protagonists who are incredible fighters but "I'm ...No hero" because they couldn't save some person once but have been saving people endlessly since. Cloud comes to mind, he was not emo in Final Fantasy VII,but after FFVII? He turned into the typical jackass I hate of JRPGs, in Advent Children & those crappy Kingdom Hearts fanservice games & Dissidia literally saying "I'm no hero". He beat so many bad dudes, killed a false God and kept most of his friends alive, he IS a hero it makes no fucking sense.

I just started playing Grandia off the PSN, that game has been the best "new" JRPG I've played in ages. Granted I'm 3 hours in but it has charm, the characters are fun, the battles are neat and this game seems to be devoid of the emo streak.

 

[Kuro Serpentina]

All of the nope, I can muster, dood...
Not just because JRPGs are my favourite genre, but the general idea that anything needs to be Gritty to be good or even dark
Also "Childishess is a disease that needs to be cured"? Wow, you must be new to this whole gaming thing huh~
Allow me to direct you to the Kirby series, one of the most "Childish-esk games around, all of which HAVE AN ADRITCH ABOMINATION FOR A FINAL BOSS!
Childishness & Dark Plots go hand in hand, dood
The childishness makes the darker points mean just that much more & the dark points make the Childishness all the more enticing
JRPGs have always been, primiarly about story, see the fact most of the people like Square & the like made Visual Novels before going into JRPGs, Visual Novels being a genre in which there is nothing but story
...
Wow, I'm dragging random info together to try and make a sound point, dood XP
Though I do believe Jim actually did an episode on this sorta subject & its says it better than I can, so go watch that, then slap yourself

 

[Tony2077]

i still like the games from japan and if they change to be more like some of the ones over here I'll have even more money and less games to get

 

[Brainwreck]

Just adding grittiness does not necessarily improve a piece of media. And neither does making it more upbeat. What matters is the quality of the product in question (let's face it, that is what media is in the end). In the case of a game, this tends to be about the enjoyability of its gameplay, and how good its story is, as well as how expertly that story is told and executed. Good characterisation is part of this. The story aspect can be completely ignored with certain types of games, but with RPGs, it's a necessity.
In short: JRPGs need to be just straight up better.

 

[Mistilteinn]

If there's anything that JRPGs need, it's to stop trying so hard to be 'cool and edgy' and start trying to have interesting characters, with believable arcs, with an interesting settings, and more motivated villains and less 'Saturday-morning cartoon' villains. As it stands right now, it's the characters and tones that need the most work.

I just started playing FFV, and already I'm enjoying it more than most JRPGs I've played in recent memory. Why? Because it's actually making me laugh, and not at how melodramatic the characters are (since they don't seem to be), but with the writing itself. It's funny! FFIX did the same thing, but was much more refined. Why? It nailed the balance of a serious story, interspersed with many light-hearted moments. On the one hand, we have Vivi and everything that goes on with him, and the other we have Steiner smuggling Garnet across the boarder in a sack of pickles--it's a little thing called diversity.

Do JRPGs need to be gritty to be better? No. Are they about to die in obscurity? No. They just need to get back to refining what they already are known for: engaging stories, developed characters, and interesting combat systems.

 

[Christopher Fisher]

I really love the "JRPGs are story driven!" line or "you just don't like JRPGs because you don't like good videogame stories!"


JRPG storylines are by far the worst aspect of such games...well, maybe not as bad as their cliche anime characters. Even though I would rather have ARPG combat ala Secret of Mana or Kingdoms of Amalur, the turn based combat in JRPGs isn't game breaking (unless it's just really slow paced and takes forever to get through a battle).

And I actually re-read the OP's comment, and he makes a good point. He's not saying JRPGs need to become brown/grey military shooters set in Afghanistan. He's simply saying their stories could be a little more serious and involve political intrigue, with characters that aren't either good or evil--similar to Game of Thrones, although it obviously doesn't NEED to be set in a medieval setting.

It would be refreshing to have some villains in JRPGs who actually had a real motivating factor that led them to do what they do instead of them wanting to take over the world, because well...they're evil. It would also be nice to have the hero question whether that villain really is a villain. Maybe you're trying to take out the villain because he killed the king, but you find out the king was planning a war of attrition or something, and the "villain" was really just preventing a catastrophe. Something like that.

 

[The Funslinger]

In my humble opinion, JRPGs don't need to be grittier, they need to be less like a bad soap opera.

I couldn't stand FF13 for that reason. So goddamn cheesey with no selfawareness of said cheesiness.

Indeed.

OT: I'll sum up my opinion on the OP with this remark:

The day some all powerful overseer manages to impose a formula that must be adhered to in order to constitute 'good' story telling,[footnote]In this case, a decreed minimum level of grittiness.[/footnote] story telling as an art form, a form of expression and just about anything worth creating or observing would die.

 

[Innegativeion]

Err... no.

Tons of people still love JRPGs.

And one of the main reasons I love JRPGs is because they are usually the opposite of dark and gritty.

True enough. One of the best aspects of certain JRPGs is how they turn rather dark and terrifying prospects (SMT games are usually about cosmic horror apocalypses, TWEWY is about purgatory, there's about a thousand potential 'fates worse than death' in the KH universe, Dark Cloud 2 is about people being erased from time, the act III plot twist of Xenoblade, Ni No Kuni starts with the protagonists' mother's death, etc. etc.)

While keeping the journey joyful, fun, and optimistic. Most JRPG plots are a celebration of human agency, which I think is a boon in an industry saturated with stories about 'gritty' 'dark' and 'realistic' subjects.

Those games have their place. I don't think JRPGs are that place, usually. (Dark Souls does gritty and dark like a champion, but that doesn't mean every JRPG has to be that way.)

 

[John Farrell]

They need to emphasize plots rather than character and set design.

 

[Innegativeion]

I really love the "JRPGs are story driven!" line or "you just don't like JRPGs because you don't like good videogame stories!"


JRPG storylines are by far the worst aspect of such games...well, maybe not as bad as their cliche anime characters. Even though I would rather have ARPG combat ala Secret of Mana or Kingdoms of Amalur, the turn based combat in JRPGs isn't game breaking (unless it's just really slow paced and takes forever to get through a battle).

And I actually re-read the OP's comment, and he makes a good point. He's not saying JRPGs need to become brown/grey military shooters set in Afghanistan. He's simply saying their stories could be a little more serious and involve political intrigue, with characters that aren't either good or evil--similar to Game of Thrones, although it obviously doesn't NEED to be set in a medieval setting.

It would be refreshing to have some villains in JRPGs who actually had a real motivating factor that led them to do what they do instead of them wanting to take over the world, because well...they're evil. It would also be nice to have the hero question whether that villain really is a villain. Maybe you're trying to take out the villain because he killed the king, but you find out the king was planning a war of attrition or something, and the "villain" was really just preventing a catastrophe. Something like that.

*sigh*... really? Needless to say I wholeheartedly think that's full of it.

Okay, here's a by NO means comprehensive list;

Spoiler: lots of JRPG villains

Lavos from chrono trigger is just a giant animal that is trying to reproduce. It's motivation is survival, just so happens it's species needs to swallow planets to do so.

Nyx from persona 3 is just doing its job, the apocalypse's real cause, and by extension the true villain of Persona 3, is the Erebus, soul of all of humanity's evils and negative emotions. Humanity itself is the villain.

Izanami from persona 4 is trying to erase said evils of humanity through *her* apocalypse plot, but when shown the protagonists' will to survive as she's defeated, she accepts this fate

Every boss in Persona 4 is a dark reflection the protagonists' worst aspects. Not villains, but forces of nature.

Egil from xenoblade chronicles is trying to destroy the world of bionis, but only because it's a selfish god that doesn't want to share existence with the other world, mechonis. He is attempting to prevent its reawakening.

Megumi Kitaniji from TWEWY is desperately trying to keep his boss, the Composer, from destroying the city. He's bet his life in a game where he has to stop all the city's crime and hate. Desperate, he does so by brainwashing everyone. The Composer himself believes destroying city will keep its corruption from spreading, the protagonist forces the Composer to have a change of heart at the last second, sparing the city.

N from pokemon (yes even fucking pokemon) is an animal rights activist

Lord Gwyn from Dark Souls lost his mind in an attempt to stop the age of darkness from coming. He guards the first flame (basically the only thing warding off the darkness) with his mindless body. If there is a real villain in this game, it would be the primordial serpents, who seem to only want the age of darkness because it would allow them to prosper as Gwyn did in the age of fire. You don't even fight the primordial serpents.

and that doesn't even scratch the surface.

 

[barbzilla]

Well lets think for a moment why people hates JRPGs? Because it doesn't fit the current standards expected by the current attitude towards the fantasy genre.

But what do people expect from the fantasy genre now? To emulate ASOIAF, the political intrigue, the brutal cynicism and ultimately be as mature as possible. The funny thing is that JRPGs at one point was like that with Ogre Battle, Valkyrie Profile and Xenogears which served as the greats of JRPG. When JRPGs made the shift to making stuff lighter in content, WRPGs picked the ball up, using ASOIAF rather than Tolkien as their inspiration and has sold well compared to JRPGs which is becoming mostly kiddier.

So for JRPGs to be liked again, I recommend tossing in a bit of ASOIAF, some mature content and call us in the morning. We will dismiss the Turn Based stuff as part the genetic makeup of the genre. But the childishness is a disease that needs to be cured

The problem is, the things you want to change are what fundamentally make them JRPGs. Song of Ice and Fire may be what some people in the realm of Western fantasy realm expect, but Japanese fantasy is a whole other ball game. If you don't like the elements it features, then perhaps JRPGs just aren't for you. I wouldn't go complaining about how an egg salad has too much egg, because without the egg it's just...salad. Well, coleslaw really.

I mean, not only are you generalizing JRPGs but also Western RPGs. I've never read or watched anything involving ASOIAF, and I still enjoy plenty of fantasy stories. There's room for more than one type of fantasy in this big old world of ours. Anytime somebody starts talking about how we need to homogenize a certain genre it makes me cringe, because it's always unnecessary. You enjoy the fantasy you like, I'll enjoy mine. That's the reason fantasy is so great--it can be catered to fit what anybody wants.

You and I don't agree often, but this is one of them.

To the OP: I don't see why you would want every RPG style to end up like ASOIAF, wouldn't that just become boring to a whole new level (as well as killing your beloved setting). Anytime you try to bring everything under the prevue of a single style you only manage to make it mundane. The reason ASOIAF did so well is because it was fresh and new, not because it is the penultimate version of Fantasy. Hell, I prefer my fantasy to be even more fantastic and strange, but you don't hear me wishing that upon every game/movie out there.

Second; Gritty doesn't mean like ASOIAF. Yes ASOIAF is gritty, but you say gritty in the title then use the body of your argument to say like ASOIAF. Hell, Tolkien is gritty to a certain extent, yet that isn't what defines it and makes it good. The other issue with gritty is like what Liliani said, when you try to force gritty you end up with the new DMC reboot. You get something that isn't technically bad, but comes off as very cheesy and forced.

I think you might just not like JRPGs. Many of us like our JRPGs because they aren't like WRPGs where they force atypical fantasy concepts on us. In JRPGs we can step into so many different worlds and have completely new experiences, and if we feel like traditional fantasy, we always have WRPGs.

 

[DeltaEdge]

I wasn't aware that everyone no longer likes JRPGs anymore. I could have sworn that plenty of people still love them for what they are, and that it would alienate a lot of people if they suddenly became more like WRPGs as a whole.

I think what you are really trying to say is, you don't like JRPGs(There's nothing wrong with that), and want them to accommodate your preferences, and don't seem to realize that there are a large amount of people who like, or even find the way most JRPGs are done to be preferable to what you seem to be asking for.

 

[gyrobot_v1legacy]

Yatsuno is pretty much what I was describing as being part of the era of JRPGs that had everything the western audience wants. Guy was the scriptwriter of Tactics and Vagrant.

All it needs nowadays is to have the same content maturity level of the newer WRPGs, aka stop at nothing for a CERO Z.