Amercian arrested for Child Porn by Canadian customs who found manga on his computer.

[NightlyNews]

Censorship of something deemed illegal is not related to the censorship of art.

Yes it is, its a form of expression that is deemed illegal. It is, therefore, an issue of freedom of expression.

So how about what I wrote before:

Spoiler: Everything in this is fake, don't throw a shit storm

If I want to walk down to my local coffee shop and shoot everyone because its my artistic expression the government shouldn't censor it (stop me)?

Its a form of expression. Why can't I have freedom of expression?

They aren't allow to censor it, as in they can't stop news reporters from covering it.

But, they most definitely can and will stop you for breaking the law. Censorship and enforcing the law should, but aren't always separated.

I honestly just think your exaggerating so hard that you lost your point/trolling because your statement is so obviously false, but in case you aren't there's the facts.

They aren't censoring this guys Hentai (if it even is Hentai), they are just stopping him for breaking the law.

Also be careful about using the T word. Even when its blatantly obvious you get banned for saying it apparently.

Wow you can be banned for the T word. Incoming ban lol.

I didn't mean it in a malicious way towards you no offense intended, but I didn't and still don't see what your example has to do with this.

Your right he was arrested for bringing in what they considered to be malicious content. So, what does that have to do with freedom of expression? It's not even in America does Canada have such a liberal definition of freedom of speech like the U.S.? I honestly don't know.

 

[SillyBear]

Don't accuse me of not knowing what I am talking about until you actually know what I am talking about.

Let me guess... you're about to double back and pretending you were making a different point to the one you were actually making.

I am talking about the issue of animated child pornography itself. The issue being: Is there anything wrong with it?

It seems I was right!

To answer your question: We don't know if there is anything wrong with it at all. That may be completely irrelevant to the case anyway.

You're right, still means you can bring it on trial. That's what it is for. What I am saying is that it's not right to arrest people for a charge that has no proven connection to actually doing any consistent harm.

Uh, yes, yes it is actually. This manga could have a deep connection to the case.

A charge doesn't actually have to possess proof that it itself causes harm. I don't know where you were taught this shit man. If someone does something illegal they can be charged for it. And just so you know, this man has not been convicted with anything. He has been arrested due to suspicious circumstances. Maybe the "suspicion" was 100% to do with the manga. Maybe the "suspicion" has more to do with something that we have no idea about. We have no clue. Just because he was charged with possession of child pornography does not even mean they are referring to the manga itself. They could be charging him about something they found earlier or later. It's clear from the article that the journalist wasn't given much information at all. It sounds like he was given:

--A man has been arrested.

--Customs found manga on his PC.

--He has been charged with possession of child pornography.

There could be a million dots in between these three points. Hell, maybe the three points aren't even directly related to one another. There could be a million factors, and we know zero of them.

And let's be honest, if "possession of child pornography" only has to do with the manga, if that's ALL they have on him, then he won't end up in prison. But once again, we don't know!

And even if it did, that doesn't mean it can't be used as evidence and that doesn't mean the police may actually see a connection here.

The problem with threads like this is everyone looks like a dick in them. Everyone speculates and everyone talks shit. We don't know the ins and outs of this. We are told one tiny snippet of what happened and everyone starts acting like they are experts on the case.

Like I said earlier, this man may be completely innocent and this man may have been unfairly arrest. Or this man may have been arrested on grounds that we are completely ignorant to. He may have had connections to crimes, the police may have red flagged his name, the manga he was carrying may have had relevance or maybe the customs just thought he was suspicious.

Police and customs officers have discretion and it is a good thing they do. They aren't out there to put innocent people in a holding cell, they are out there to protect people and enforce the law. Sometimes there are mistakes, and if this was a mistake this man will be released and pardoned. Maybe this wasn't a mistake. Maybe this man is connected to the child pornography underground and this piece of manga tipped him off.

We. Just. Don't. Fucking. Know.

Let the police do their job and how about we shut our mouths until we learn at least half of what has gone on?

snip

Annnnd you're still speculating. I agree wholeheartedly, this manga alone is not even close to sufficient grounds to convict this man. But you're assuming that this is all that is going on here. There could be a thousand things going on that only the police and this man know about. He could have done things in the past that have raised suspicion, they could have been tracking him, they may have found more on his computer after they took it away for investigation. We don't know and we haven't been given any details about this. We need to stop speculating and let them do their job.

 

[Bags159]

Well, if the Comic book legal defence fund wants to help this man, all power to them. I just cannot find myself in support of this man

I don't know how I feel on this. On the one hand, if it is drawings, it harms no one. However, if you have that thought on your mind, might it lead you to do things with actual children?

Couldn't this argument easily be used against video games? Using this logic violent video games might lead you to do actual violence. I think it's hypocritical to think he should be jailed for enjoying fictional depictions of illegal acts as a gamer. Pardon me if you do not think this way.

Just a thought.

 

[genericusername64]

It was probably some gross shit, they wouldn't have spent the effort otherwise

 

[Gaiseric]

Was it manga or hentai?

Was it clearly underage girls?

I won't form an opinion without these questions being answered.

 

[Worgen]

considering its drawn all you should need is someone writing "all characters in this are over 18" and boom, done really you cant prove they are underage

 

[Steppin Razor]

I disagree with the law, but the guy deserves to be punished if he was indeed picked up for having loli on his computer. If you have an interest in lolicon, then you really want to pay attention to the laws of the country you're visiting in regards to the sexual depiction of minors. Customs check computers all the time, keeping your collection of lolicon on said computer when visiting a country which has ruled that it is child porn is the height of dumbassery.

 

[Eternal_Lament]

Speaking as a Canadian I hope this gets thrown out. I always thought this particular law was wierd, because while I myself am unaffected by it, it just didn't make sense. As everyone here has said, since no real person is actually being abused, there is no harm to others in the making of and ownership of stuff like this. It would be like arguing that owning a violent and gory cartoon is illegal because if replaced with real people it could constitute as snuff material, which is just out-right laughable at, so it confuses me how this manages to bypass the obvious defense.

 

[ms_sunlight]

Firstly, until we all know what he supposedly had on his computer it's hard to comment. Secondly, if you're going abroad research the laws of the country you're visiting. There have been issues for a number of years with comics / manga in Canada. Whilst I am in support of freedom of artistic expression (provided no-one is harmed in the making of that expression) I don't buy the argument that using drawn or computer generated images of children being violated is morally neutral.

 

[CM156_v1legacy]

Well, if the Comic book legal defence fund wants to help this man, all power to them. I just cannot find myself in support of this man

I don't know how I feel on this. On the one hand, if it is drawings, it harms no one. However, if you have that thought on your mind, might it lead you to do things with actual children?

Couldn't this argument easily be used against video games? Using this logic violent video games might lead you to do actual violence. I think it's hypocritical to think he should be jailed for enjoying fictional depictions of illegal acts as a gamer. Pardon me if you do not think this way.

Just a thought.

You raise a good point. I guess I didn't think of it that way

My hat is off

But I don't understand why everyone is rallying behind him. Free Speech? Give me a break.
Saying that not protecting him will lead to more free speech violations is like saying that not fighting the government on not being allowed to own a Uzi will lead to Second Amendment violations (And let?s not get into gun ownership as a debate, it was simply a point). There can be a fair line between what we should and should not accept as a society. I find it hard to stand behind a man who had drawings of underage children in such a way. Sorry.

 

[Dogstile]

If I want to walk down to my local coffee shop and shoot everyone because its my artistic expression the government shouldn't censor it (stop me)?

hyperbole:
1.obvious and intentional exaggeration.
2.an extravagant statement or figure of speech not intended to be taken literally, as ?to wait an eternity.?
3. not helpful in discussions of ethics

The difficult thing about this kind of disicussion isn't defining porn (everyone over tha ge 12 knows what that is) but defining what is art, what is not art, and if something known and agreed to be art is worth protecting.

You are trying to claim that something that was deemed illegal is art and therefore shouldn't be deemed illegal.

Now you are drawing imaginary lines in the sand so that your reasoning works and mine doesn't when I do the exact same thing as you in a different magnitude.

Not to mention you can't even disprove my horribly weak counterpoint but instead you create a fake dictionary definition instead, its actually quite hilarious how bad you are at back and forth discussions.

Here's a rather simple answer.

Your example is not classed as art because it's done with the intent to physically hurt someone. If you faked it, did it in a way that just shocked people, i'm pretty sure by law that would be legal in America, but when it actually hurts people, it turns from art into a crime.

Does that work better? Come on dude, you must have known when you posted that you were just posting flamebait right?

 

[bob1052]

Your example is not classed as art because it's done with the intent to physically hurt someone.

Thank you for explaining to me what can be classified as art and what can't. Congratulations on being wrong.

 

[GrimHeaper]

I think this just brings the question of "what is porn"?

I also have to ask: What did he get caught with and how old those the person(s) look in whatever manga he had?

If he got stopped for Ranma 1/2 or High School of the Dead then I call bull, but if he got caught with something that depicts what are clearly under-aged looking characters (aka no reasonable human being could say they look anything close 18 or older) then I have no sympothy for him.

If you visit Ms. Rosy Palmer while watching kids you need to be kept in jail where you wouldn't ruin anyone's lives.

There is a hypothetical 5000 year old witch that looks 13 in a hentai.
Would it count as under-aged porn?

I would count it as under-aged porn. I'm not basing age off what the hentai says the age is but what age the character appears to be. If its porn and the characters 'engaging' don't look anything close to grown then yes, its kiddie porn.

For that to hold true so must the opposite.
Reverse that statement please and see if it's still true remember it's fiction.
Also there is somethign called story a person in fiction can change their appearance at will often. Morph from the x-men now looks like a small girl, now what? You clearly know that Morph is not a small girl.
Oh and If you have a picture of your new baby boy/girl it's child porn now.
Don't go around being perfectly reasonable by holding your children pictures in your wallet or else.
Kiddie porn is considered to be anything slightly nude, you heard me.

 

[Dogstile]

Your example is not classed as art because it's done with the intent to physically hurt someone.

Thank you for explaining to me what can be classified as art and what can't. Congratulations on being wrong.

Thank you for you know, proving me wrong with those two sentences, you really embellished on that fine point you have there. Ok, fine, i'll reword it. You couldn't do it because its illegal to walk into an coffee shop and kill everyone, even if it was for "art".

 

[A Curious Fellow]

If there are no victims for an activity, then it isn't a crime. End of discussion.

Agreed. Granted, the kind of freak who reads comic book lolita porn isn't the kind of person I'd trust around anyone under the age of DEAD, but still. A victimless crime isn't, morally speaking, a crime.

 

[bob1052]

Your example is not classed as art because it's done with the intent to physically hurt someone.

Thank you for explaining to me what can be classified as art and what can't. Congratulations on being wrong.

Thank you for you know, proving me wrong with those two sentences, you really embellished on that fine point you have there. Ok, fine, i'll reword it. You couldn't do it because its illegal to walk into an coffee shop and kill everyone, even if it was for "art".

It is illegal to own child porn, even if it is for "art".

 

[Dogstile]

Your example is not classed as art because it's done with the intent to physically hurt someone.

Thank you for explaining to me what can be classified as art and what can't. Congratulations on being wrong.

Thank you for you know, proving me wrong with those two sentences, you really embellished on that fine point you have there. Ok, fine, i'll reword it. You couldn't do it because its illegal to walk into an coffee shop and kill everyone, even if it was for "art".

It is illegal to own child porn, even if it is for "art".

I never said it wasn't, funnily enough. I just said your example wasn't art.

Hey, you know you said to that guy that he was horrible at back and fourth arguments, apparently you're not so hot either, considering you're arguing something i'm not. Please, read what people are arguing next time.

Edit: If you read that as me insulting you, it isn't meant that way, but looking back on it, my post could seem aggressive.

 

[Aesir23]

He broke the laws of the country, if he didn't want to be punished for doing so then he should have left his computer at home. Perhaps if he'd done some research and learned the laws beforehand he would have known to do so, thus avoiding this mess.

Nonetheless, I'm fairly sure we're talking about Hentai and not regular old manga that this guy was arrested for, considering normal manga (quite a few involving characters under the age of 18. Naruto was very popular at one time) is widely available in Canada. However if what he was carrying involved erotic images of underage children (specifically kids that look nowhere close to being 18), then I have no sympathy for the bastard.