Are people too hard on smokers?

[Abengoshis]

Why does anyone even start smoking in the first place? To look cool? Don't give in to peer pressure. It doesn't look cool, it looks disgusting. To get over depression? There's better ways than damaging yourself and people around you...and smelling awful.

Why do people start drinking, or do other drugs? To make them feel better.

Yup, all the coughing and shortness of breath must make them feel brilliant.

Yeah, I never have a problem with that. I eat right and exercise, if I want to have a cigarette, I do that too. I think it's funny that it's still okay to be a judgmental prick to smokers when there are so many other good reasons to hate people right?

One thing I find is interesting: If a smoker is outside having a cigarette, and someone comes by and asks for one, or a light, often we'll have a nice little conversation. I watch all these other people walking by and ignoring each other and I've made a new acquaintance.

Interesting fact though: 100% of non-smokers die.

Interesting fact: Those non-smokers generally don't die as a result of smoking or the long term effects of smoking.

 

[Abengoshis]

Why does anyone even start smoking in the first place? To look cool? Don't give in to peer pressure. It doesn't look cool, it looks disgusting. To get over depression? There's better ways than damaging yourself and people around you...and smelling awful.

Why do people start drinking, or do other drugs? To make them feel better.

Yup, all the coughing and shortness of breath must make them feel brilliant.

The inflated ego must make you feel like a million bucks. I wish my choices made me feel as entitled as you.

Btw, run track and haven't had to cough from a smoke since the first one, but good try, blanket-statement.

Inflated ego? Lol I think you're getting a bit too defensive.

 

[Rabish Bini]

The one thing I can't fucking stand is when people say idiotic remarks such as people who don't quit smoking are "weak-willed". Like these people actually know what's going on in the minds of others. It's made worse when those who say such remarks have never smoked themselves.

Some people can't quite seem to grasp the concept that smoking is often a stress-reliever for people, and actually makes them feel good about themselves.

I'm not a smoker myself, but I honestly don't give a rats arse about smokers, smoke wherever you want, even if it's when you're standing right next to me.

And, going by the logic of a few posters in this thread, I really should give up drinking too.

 

[CheshirePhoenix]

Secondhand smoke can cause harm in many ways. In the United States alone, each year it is responsible for:

An estimated 46,000 deaths from heart disease in people who are currently non-smokers
About 3,400 lung cancer deaths as a result of breathing secondhand smoke
Other breathing problems in non-smokers, including coughing, mucus, chest discomfort, and reduced lung function
50,000 to 300,000 lung infections (such as pneumonia and bronchitis) in children younger than 18 months of age, which result in 7,500 to 15,000 hospitalizations annually
Increases in the number and severity of asthma attacks in about 200,000 to 1 million children who have asthma
More than 750,000 middle ear infections in children
Pregnant women exposed to secondhand smoke are also at increased risk of having low birth- weight babies.

Secondhand smoke kills children and adults who don't smoke, and makes others sick (Surgeon General's report)

The 2006 US Surgeon General's report reached some important conclusions:

Secondhand smoke causes premature death and disease in children and in adults who do not smoke.
Children exposed to secondhand smoke are at an increased risk of sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS), acute respiratory infections, ear problems, and more severe asthma. Smoking by parents causes breathing (respiratory) symptoms and slows lung growth in their children.
Secondhand smoke immediately affects the heart and blood circulation in a harmful way. Over a longer time it also causes heart disease and lung cancer.
The scientific evidence shows that there is no safe level of exposure to secondhand smoke.
Many millions of Americans, both children and adults, are still exposed to secondhand smoke in their homes and workplaces despite a great deal of progress in tobacco control.
The only way to fully protect non-smokers from exposure to secondhand smoke indoors is to prevent all smoking in that indoor space or building. Separating smokers from non-smokers, cleaning the air, and ventilating buildings cannot keep non-smokers from being exposed to secondhand smoke.

http://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancercauses/tobaccocancer/secondhand-smoke

Go read about how you poison other people before you complain about people who object to smoking.

Way to quote a lobbyist group (cancer.org) and a politician (the surgeon general). Oh, wait. Of course lobbyists and politicians never lie, and they ALWAYS present all of the available evidence.

Let's see now, point by point:

Secondhand smoke can cause harm in many ways. In the United States alone, each year it is responsible for:

An estimated 46,000 deaths from heart disease in people who are currently non-smokers

How many of those heart disease deaths were in people with high triglycerides and LDL? I'd be willing to bet that most, if not all of them, had high cholesterol and a family history of heart disease. In fact, if the "study" even tracked their cholesterol and histories, I'll give up my residency.

About 3,400 lung cancer deaths as a result of breathing secondhand smoke

This is absurd. Because as we all know, nobody ever gets lung cancer unless they're dirty dirty smokers, or exposed to cigarettes.

Other breathing problems in non-smokers, including coughing, mucus, chest discomfort, and reduced lung function

Patently untrue. Environmental allergies cause all of the above, and most people don't know what they're allergic to until they've undergone a battery of tests to determine their allergies. Blaming it all on secondhand smoke is the easy way out.

50,000 to 300,000 lung infections (such as pneumonia and bronchitis) in children younger than 18 months of age, which result in 7,500 to 15,000 hospitalizations annually

Infants, especially infants that aren't breast-fed, are still developing their immune systems. First off, the range of estimates is suspicious, then add in the breast-feeding variable (how many of them were breast fed as opposed to given formula?) and an underdeveloped immune system. How many of their parents had colds or flus?

Increases in the number and severity of asthma attacks in about 200,000 to 1 million children who have asthma

Asthma is overdiagnosed. Of course people respond poorly to environmental toxins - I'm sure we've all taken a whiff of something at some point or other that made us cough. Not just cigarette smoke. Also, until we're fully developed, everyone is asthmatic. You have to become accustomed to the barrage of toxins that you're exposed to before you overcome the majority of the coughing fits caused by, well, pretty much everything.

More than 750,000 middle ear infections in children

This is a holdover from the "doctor's choice" diagnoses from the early 80s through mid 90s. They used to put ear tubes in everyone who's parents they could convince needed them. Why? Because it was profitable. Now the big thing is preventative tonsillectomies and appendectomies. Not to mention ADHD diagnoses.

Pregnant women exposed to secondhand smoke are also at increased risk of having low birth- weight babies.

Factors that affect birth weight:
- size of parents (shorter parents have smaller babies)
- health of the mother (high blood pressure, heart problems, preeclampsia, etc lead to lower birth weight)
- nutrition of the mother (bad mommy diet = low birth weight baby)
- sex of the newborn (boys are bigger, girls are smaller)
- birth order (firstborn children are typically smaller than later births)
- baby's health (obvious, duh)

Oh, and SIDS doesn't have a cause. That's how it got its name: Sudden Infant Death Syndrome. Sometimes babies just die and we don't know why. It's different than a FTT (Failure to Thrive) death.

 

[Talon_Skywarp]

I'm a smoker and I love it. Its my money and my body. Sod everyone else.

Strange, people attack smokers yet they go out every weekend and ruin their livers with beer? Or eat loads of fatty food? Or do other things that harm them? Sunbeds...that will do your serious damage.

Plus, if you get the right girl, she can make smoking look sooo sexy!

 

[PhreakyDee]

Yes, mostly. To an extend. In my eyes it's a question about mutual respect. I do my part to stay a bit behind others at the busstop when I'm smoking, I put the cigarette as far away from people when they walk past and I dont exhale on others. I move if I'm asked. But that is not to say I'm a saint. If people cough as they walk past me in that really fake way I become a ***** and blow smoke at them, if I'm asked to move from an area where I'm clearly allowed to smoke (Example: We are 3 smokers smoking, one non-smoker enters and asks us to move away from his/hers newly found golden spot in the middle of the street) I ask them if they cant just find another place to stand.
I try to respect others but it's difficult when I dont get at least some understanding back.
I think the biggest problem comes with the smoking assholes, or the "saints". (The biggest saints being the Just-recently-quit-smokers)

And to the bad health; I know it's bad, I've seen the consequences up first hand, but I like smoking. When I get told "Smoking is bad for you! You will die!" I just respond "Rather that than Altzeimers". Yes, It's my drug, Yes; I'm addicted , but I enjoy smoking. There is only two people that can make me stop, my boyfriend telling me that "It's now. Let's make a baby." or the embryo if I find out I'm pregnant.
(Yes, my body, my choice. But if you're pregnant It's not just your body anymore... Yes I memorized that But I find it fitting as with all kinds of drugs)

 

[MetaKnight19]

Yes, they are hated on far too much, the only thing I really object to about smoking is when the excessively young are smoking. For example when I was in town once, some 12 year olds (who I sort of knew) came up to me and said 'Mate, can you get us a pack of ciggies? I'll give you the money for it.' I mean surely kids have got better things to spend money on than cigarettes.

 

[gillebro]

thought i'd chuck in my two cents.

i'll occasionally smoke if the people i'm currently hanging out with are. it's not some bullshit peer pressure thing - it's just something i enjoy with certain other people. the same thing applies with drinking. i never drink or smoke alone, and since i'm alone most of the time, that means that i very rarely drink or smoke at all and i consider myself a non-drinker non-smoker.

i think smokers have as much right to smoke as any of the rest of us have to do whatever 'bad' habit we engage in. i cannot claim to be a fan of someone smoking, then blowing the smoke into my face, when i'm trying to enjoy a slice of cake or whatever. but i'm even less of a fan of people who think they are so much better, more ethically sound, whatever else, than smokers, because they are non-smokers. i do not like it when people label smokers as unclean or stupid. i had a friend of mine say that she finds smokers 'rude and cruel', and i was beyond insulted. personally i think her saying that makes her ruder and crueller than the smokers.

essentially, i'm pro-choice, and pro-education. people should be aware of the health impacts of smoking, and if a smoker wants to quit, every possible resource needed to help them quit should be made available to them. but if a person chooses to ignore all of that and smoke anyway, it's their choice, and the rest of us have no business trying to intervene or guilt-trip.

 

[Techsmart07]

I would say that its ok to try to encourage a friend to quit smoking, but I wouldn't assume anything about who they are just because they smoke. It's just like any other habbit. I don't care if you do it, as long as you don't get me stuck on it (dang DND players, getting me hooked). All of my friends that do smoke do so outside away from non-smokers, so I got nothing against em.

Now, if someone walks up to me smoking a cigarette puffing smoke all around me, I will tell them to go the heck away.

 

[koroem]

snip

Politicians and lobbyists are lying on this issue to accomplish what end result? Stealing your money or keeping you controlled? What possible reason could warning people about the dangers of putting toxins in your body benefit them? Fear? Do people throw money at them? It is a scam?

I know people who smoked their entire lives, and got sick and died the same way other people who claimed to smoke all their lives did. That is enough for me to conclude smoking is harmful to the person's health, and it is harmful to the people around them.

I don't want smokers smoking near me. It kills people, and anyone arguing it doesn't is closing their eyes and covering their ears as hard as they can because they don't want to hear it. Toxins are all around us city air, cars, factories, ect, but some we can avoid, like smoking.

If you want to kill yourself with cigarettes go ahead. I don't want any part of it.

 

[PatrickXD]

I probably wouldn't date a smoker, but a few of my friends smoke.
As far as I'm concerned, unless you are a total health nut and workout everyday, eat a perfectly designed and balanced diet etc, you shouldn't rag on smokers for destroying themselves.

 

[OtherSideofSky]

It isn't a purely private thing, so people have the right to be bothered.

So people like you have the right to take away another person's rights because you are "bothered" ??? Doesn't sound very fair to me.

I didn't say I could ban them from doing it. I said I could complain, ask them to please do it somewhere else (I wouldn't go into an area where people are smoking and do this, but I would ask some one who sat down next to me not to light up) and avoid associating with them. I'm just saying that isn't like collecting baseball cards or something, which could never bother me and I would therefore be rude for discriminating against.

If you don't like the smoke I understand... so why don't you leave instead of making the smoker?

As I said, if they were there first I'll go somewhere else instead of barging in and trying to force them out like an entitled brat. If, however, I was already sitting on, for instance, a park bench, and a smoker came and sat next to me, I would ask them politely to refrain from smoking or find another bench (there's usually no shortage of them), because in this situation they are the ones entering my personal space and should therefore observe some courtesy. It's the same reason you wouldn't set up your family picnic right next to some dude with an easel who's trying to paint in peace.

 

[conmag9]

If it were as simple as them only causing problems with themselves, I wouldn't recommend it but it'd be on their own head. It's not. If people wanted to go around smearing themselves with a foul-smelling chemical that shortened the lives of themselves and everyone else around them, how long do you think it would be before it was banned?

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

"I don't know why people smoke."

A common phrase uttered by the befuddled outsider with a simple answer. Because it makes them feel good. We don't shun people for having eating fast food but we do shun this sort of behaviour? Ridiculous. As long as it doesn't affect anyone else, I'm fine with it.

Hold on, that's not a valid comparison. Smoking doesn't make you feel good. Once you're addicted, not smoking makes you feel bad and agitated, and smoking stops that momentarily.

That's quite different from junkfood, which triggers some chemical reactions that make us feel a little happier. It's not like when you eat a hamburger, the next day you'll feel bad if you don't eat a hamburger.

Actually it does make you feel good. Let me explain. (Totally channeling my biology A level :3)

Nicotine is a competitor for a MAJOR neurotransmitter called acytlcholine. Acytlcholine sends messages between neurones and is made whenever a message needs to be sent. However in this case nicotine comes along and blocks it, making you feel a kind of calm, yet almost buzzy feeling in your brain, its a relaxant that has a little "background buzz" that leads to a very weak sort of "high". Lets not even go into the fact nicotine causes artery walls to collapse and flood with huge great blobs of fat called a thrombus as it does so. Ive seen pictures. Very graphic.

Same rule for everything else.

DO it where im not forced to stand for hours and hours. Restaurants? No. Pubs? No. Indoors with me? No. In long lines outside? No. Out in the street? Fine.

 

[elbrandino]

I think it's popular to hate on smokers now. I don't mind them so much, as long as they smoke outside and away from people. The smell makes me nauseous, and my girlfriend's non-smoking grandfather is now dying of lung cancer because his wife and son smoke indoors and he got the second-hand smoke. Regardless, I respect smoker's rights to do what they want to their bodies. Just please, keep it away from me and other non-smokers.

 

[CheshirePhoenix]

snip

Politicians and lobbyists are lying on this issue to accomplish what end result? Stealing your money or keeping you controlled? What possible reason could warning people about the dangers of putting toxins in your body benefit them? Fear? Do people throw money at them? It is a scam?

Point by point:

End result? Staying in power. Lobbyists have a LOT of power in Washington - even in your state government. But as soon as the topic loses steam, they lose their political teeth.

Stealing your money? Yep. That sort of goes hand in hand with the all-out power grabs that are constantly happening in politics. Personally, I don't get it, but I've never heard of a single lobbyist that's ever been a decent person.

Here's how it works: lobbyists get votes and campaign contributions for the politicians that most closely align with their platform, or lobby. Then, when the politician gets elected, they kick back to the lobbyists, either legislatively (passing laws that favorably affect them) or monetarily (government contracts, "pork" spending, bribes, etc).

Keeping you controlled? Yep. The first electric car designs started being created back in the late 70s/early 80s. Know why our cars aren't all electric now (and with less environmental impact than the current generation that uses things like neodymium)? It's because the oil lobbyists bought the designs and have been sitting on them ever since. Take the Tesla, for instance. It first appeared in 2009 (with "early" models coming out in late 2008 for pre-orders, but began a general production run in the Spring of 2009), but it was based on a patent for an electric drive vehicle that was granted in 1979 (US Patent # 4161226). So why wasn't the electric car in production back when the patent was filed for it? Chevron, GM, and others bought the patent. With our tax dollars.

And, yes. A lot of the anti-smoking lobby's claims are pure, unadulterated bullshit designed to instill fear and loathing in Americans. This goes back to my first point - staying in power. Americans are fickle creatures - we forget the famous (look at how many people still mention Mel Gibson and his "infamous" rants today), but we remember the things that evoke fear. To wit: look at the TSA, and the patriot act, etc (note: I'm using this as an example, not as a way of derailing the thread). When we're afraid of something, our reaction to it is magnified a hundred-fold. Our typical response is to throw money at the problem until it goes away.

I've said it upthread a few pages, and I'll say it again. The ONLY valid complaint about smoking is the smell. The rest has been debunked time and time again by respected, unbiased research.

Edit to add:

Nicotine is a competitor for a MAJOR neurotransmitter called acytlcholine. Acytlcholine sends messages between neurones and is made whenever a message needs to be sent. However in this case nicotine comes along and blocks it, making you feel a kind of calm, yet almost buzzy feeling in your brain, its a relaxant that has a little "background buzz" that leads to a very weak sort of "high". Lets not even go into the fact nicotine causes artery walls to collapse and flood with huge great blobs of fat called a thrombus as it does so. Ive seen pictures. Very graphic.

Actually, nicotine increases the amount of background dopamine in our system by acting as a selective reuptake inhibitor for acetylcholine. That's what makes people feel the "high" from smoking. As far as causing a thrombus, I don't know what you've been smoking, but the things that cause arterial thrombi (or even venous thrombi) are triglycerides and low-density lipoproteins. Also, abnormally high clotting factors in the blood plasma will cause them as well, but with nothing to attach to (plaque, in other words), a high clotting factor isn't going to cause clots.

In other words: smoking doesn't cause thinning or hardening of arteries and veins. Cholesterol, on the other hand, does.

 

[The Gnome King]

I was recently reading a thread that asked the question: "what are your deal breakers?" I noticed there was a very large amount of people who claimed smoking was an instant deal breaker, no matter the person, some even going as far as saying they would not even befriend someone who was a smoker.

Now I don't smoke myself, but am I the only person who thinks people are way too harsh on smokers? I find it shocking that so many people are willing to shun someone over one habbit. It seems to me smokers are one of the relatively few groups people are willing to openly hate.

What are your thoughts on the topic?

Honestly, people that smoke marijuana bother me a lot less than people who smoke cigarettes. At least marijuana can be said to have some benefits, health-wise and other. Most studies that have been done on carcinogenic effects of both show tobacco to be far, far worse.

I have friends who smoke cigarettes, and I simply ask them to smoke outside - I don't allow it in my house, and I don't want to be around secondhand smoke - there are far more studies out showing secondhand cigarette smoke is more dangerous than, say, secondhand cannabis smoke.

I don't smoke either marijuana or cigarettes, but I can kiss a woman who has smoked marijuana without feeling like I have just kissed an ashtray. The "deal breaker" for me, with smoking cigarettes, is that I am a health-conscious person and I don't see any advantages to smoking tobacco; at all, and there are a lot of downsides to it. I smoked cigarettes a decade ago, realized how idiotic it was, read a lot of the medical literature out showing how they were causing a whole rash of cardiac events (read: heart attacks) in young people and simply decided to stop smoking it.

Tobacco is a drug that constricts blood vessels, causes cancer, reduces exercise tolerance, and makes your mouth taste horrible for a nonsmoker. I enjoy being able to kiss my wife and partner; therefore, smoking would be a "deal breaker" for me on those lines alone - I just don't like the way it smells, tastes, or the effects it has. A casual marijuana smoker I could handle dating; somebody who got high every day, no, I probably couldn't handle that lifestyle choice, either. On the same line, I wouldn't want to date a heavy drinker but somebody who drinks socially or in moderation would be fine with me.

The thing with cigarettes is that very few people smoke them "in moderation" - there are the random few people who can have a smoke or two in a week, but they are few and far between. Most cigarette smokers are addicted to the half-a-pack-a-day or more habit, and that, to me, is a sad waste of health.

Would I "shun" a smoker as a friend? No, as long as they respected my house rule about taking it outside and cleaning up their butts. Would I date one? Nope. Then again, I have devout Christian friends but I wouldn't date one of those, either. "Shunning" somebody is a pretty far point away from "not wanting to date" them.

 

[Devornine]

-snip-
Do you walk up to every fat person out there and tell them about their life choices? Yes it is a bad habit, and I am damn well sure they know it. There are so many ads and such telling them how bad it is. They don't need a prick with their nose in the air yelling about their life choices to them.

We shouldn't ignore such serious health issues. You see an ad every day and it won't do anything to effect them. There's life choices and there's simply ruining and shortening your own life. People who are angry at smokers for being a nuisance or fat people for being ugly are arrogant snobs you're talking about but in the cases where people are actually worried for their health - if one of your closer friends or family smoked heavily or was obese. Wouldn't you be worried for their health and try to get their to stop so they DON'T die earlier? That is why we should be hard on them - so they stop killing themselves so tragically.

Family is different than strangers. I have a sister who was very obese. I have talked to her about it, as she did about my smoking. Did we listen. No. We just got angry and more set in our ways. It wasn't until we found the SELF motivation to do it that changes actually happened. You can't change other people. Only yourself

 

[Avistew]

I think it depends on the area. I was born and raised in France and I was made fun off in school for being one of the very few who didn't smoke.
I also had asthma. Which stopped after I moved to North America. Not saying nobody smokes there, but much less people do, and it makes a difference to me.

I think it sucks for smokers in places where they're not too numerous. On the other hand I wish they had an addiction that didn't affect me. At least people who drink beer don't generally pour it in my mouth too. I know it's not smokers' fault at all, but it does affect other people. And I agree that exhaust fumes and the like do as well, but personally, I start coughing if someone in the same street I am is smoking (that's usually how I know someone is. I cough, get a headache and look for the smoker). I never get that from exhaust pipes.
I do from perfume, though. So I would say that people who wear enough perfume for me to smell it without being in contact with them are just as bad as smokers for other people (probably less dangerous for themselves, though).

I don't consider smoking a deal breaker, I had many friends who smoked and a friends with benefits who did. However my close friends and long-term boyfriends have always been non-smokers. I didn't pick it to be that way, it just happened. I think I connect better with non-smokers.

I can understand it being a deal breaker. When you're with someone who smokes, you need to wash your clothes and hair every time you spend time with them. If they go to your place everything starts stinking. People who smoke can't smell it anymore (like people with too much perfume) but that thing gets everywhere and it smells terrible. It's certainly something I can understand being a deal breaker. On the other hand I think it can work with some compromise. Like, never smoke at home, and have "home clothes" you wear at home, and put the stinky ones in the wash, and have something to clean your breath f you expect kisses and your partner wants to gag at th taste. Believe me, it's better than them throwing up.
And in return the partner doesn't ***** at you if you smoke when going out or at social events and they have to get everything they were wearing clean, purse and all.
Something like that. I don't know, a compromise is to be decided by the interested parties. They're the ones who know what they both consider a fair trade, and it won't be the same for everyone.

 

[koroem]

blah blah blah

Ok Captain Conspiracy. The world is out to get you and I'm an ignorant fool.

P.S. Don't smoke near me.