Aries' PC Quote Thread

[Anniko]

Stuff

An Ageia PhysX card will only work on PhysX accelerated games... of which there aren't that many.

Don't get an XFi or any Creative Labs card in general, the driver support is horrendous (locking out features in Vista that work in XP) and there're better cards on the market. The Asus Xonar is one. Unless your hearing is incredibly good and you've got an incredibly good sound system, you're not gonna hear the difference between an onboard and an expansion sound card anyway.

If the graphics card has "Overclocked" on the box, check it against non-overclocked versions to make sure they're not charging a 50% "We used rivatuner" tax.

 

[stompy]

Has anyone got any tips for a beginner? I'm looking to build my first computer and I don't know where to start in regards to what parts to buy or from where for that matter. I know what parts I need though(surprisingly lol). I know I want it to be quad core definately, it's primarily going to be a gaming rig too so I don't want to skimp on the highest end stuff. Money isn't a problem either so I want to have the highest performance parts and stuff in all areas. If someone could set me off then that would be a massive help.

Thanks in Advance.

P.s. I plan to partition the drives so I'll be running both Windows Vista and XP alongside each other, I think it's called dualbooting, if someone could correct me on that if it's wrong. What would I need to do to accomplish this?

May I suggest, that if aren't confident in building your own computer, you get someone to help you the first time or so, and then, when you're confident enough, build your own. I haven't built a computer yet, but there are quite a few things that could go wrong with building, so it's better to get someone who knows their computers to be there with you to make sure you're doing it correctly.

Just a suggestion, and you're free to ignore it if you like.

 

[Bulletinmybrain]

Has anyone got any tips for a beginner? I'm looking to build my first computer and I don't know where to start in regards to what parts to buy or from where for that matter. I know what parts I need though(surprisingly lol). I know I want it to be quad core definately, it's primarily going to be a gaming rig too so I don't want to skimp on the highest end stuff. Money isn't a problem either so I want to have the highest performance parts and stuff in all areas. If someone could set me off then that would be a massive help.

Thanks in Advance.

P.s. I plan to partition the drives so I'll be running both Windows Vista and XP alongside each other, I think it's called dualbooting, if someone could correct me on that if it's wrong. What would I need to do to accomplish this?

May I suggest, that if aren't confident in building your own computer, you get someone to help you the first time or so, and then, when you're confident enough, build your own. I haven't built a computer yet, but there are quite a few things that could go wrong with building, so it's better to get someone who knows their computers to be there with you to make sure you're doing it correctly.

Just a suggestion, and you're free to ignore it if you like.

So far from what is know to me is, Don't leave anything on the mobo unless you like burntness, Make sure you use every damn screw you get and use the right one7s. Don't touch any chip on the board since you have a good chance of demagnetizing it. Don't touch the pc in general if you can also so you don't get a shock?

 

[Clain]

Whats the most bang for my buck going with graphic cards? Cause this christmas I might go instead for a high end one since this pc is shaping up rapidly.

If you want the absolute MOST bang for your buck graphics card, I would have to recommend the Radeon 4850.
"GASP! But Aries, you've stated yourself that you despise AMD with a passion!"
It's true, I do. But I also know a decent GFX card, and although I have never used it, apparently the 4850 is a godsend for the sub-$200 category.

Hey Aries, don't mean to be rude or nothin', but uh, I've always been under the impression that the best bang-for-buck card has been the 8800GT [http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814500007]. I admit, I'm not so great with computers (I'm alright, but not so great), so perhaps you could shed some light on this?

Here's a good link on video card value, current as of July 7th so it includes the 260, 280, 4850, 4870, 9800GX2, and 9800GTX but not the 4870X2. I like the Tom's guides because they go out of their way to be fair and because they break the selections down into price points. Down sides are a failure to compare price points (i.e. is it worth an extra $40 to upgrade from 8800GT to HD 4850?) and to take single card-only configurations into account. For instance, a pair of Crossfire HD 4850s are the recommended value for $400, but what if you have a single-slot mobo? If you have an SLI mobo is it worth going to a HD 4870 over a 260 considering you could add a second 260 down the road? Still, for a guide updated monthly it's an excellent tool.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-graphics-cards,1965.html

For this particular guide, remember that the excellent HD 4870 made nvidia magically transform the $400 260 and 9800GX2 into the $300 260 and 9800GX2, so the August guide will probably have the $290 to $310 slots as a three-way tie. Either of the three should make you proud.

The 8800GT is an excellent card and a good value, but hardly the most bang for the buck. The cards with the most bang for the buck are always the cheaper cards, but for gaming it's the steeper slopes on the value curve that provide the best experiences. Just avoid the very top, because as you reach the top of the line it gets very expensive to buy more performance. One thing to remember for gaming is that the card with the most bang for the buck at this instant is seldom the card with the most bang for the buck overall because it will need to be replaced more quickly. If you can afford the extra $40 or so for an HD 4850, do it.

Good thread Aries, but Reep has you on the Socket 'A'. I was a big Socket 'A' guy back in the day but there were no dual cores at that time. There was an Athlon 2100 XP and a 2100 MP, but they were single core as were all processors of that era (circa 2001 - 2003.) There was a Sempron 2100 single core, a Sempron 2100 low power (9W) single core, and a Sempron 2100 dual core. I thought the latter was only for Asian and developing markets, actually, but I think it is only in AM2 socket (it's a late 2007/early 2008 part.) And it is an 1.8 GHz chip.

I also buy practically all my parts from Newegg, but neophytes should realize the Egg uses a real-time pricing engine based on supply. When supply of a particular part gets low, the price goes up. When a new shipment comes in, the price goes down. Thus you need to keep up with prices over some period of time before buying to avoid nasty surprises.

for those that may be unaware SLI (nVidia's mulicard) does not work on ATI graphics cards, what you want is crossfire (ATI/AMD multicard). sli and crossfire do the same job (combine graphics cards) but are done in different ways

and to be honest i wouldnt go with either of them. just stick to a single card, duel cards and duel GPU setups have various little isues, and the performance increase isnt worth the cost to set it up. but if your the sort of person that needs to have the most powerful computer around to make your life seem meaningful, then i still dont recommend it, use the difference in cost to get some therapy (i was going to go with a suicide/hurt yourself joke but in not knowing too many people in this forum there was the ever present banhammer hovering above my head)

 

[WlknCntrdiction]

I've heard of these SLI thingys, am I right in saying that they enable you to fit two cards on one motherboard? Or something along those lines? I'm useless when it comes to knowing things like that. I'm sure I'll find an answer on wikipedia if I look lol.

 

[Clain]

DIY computing has been made easier and easier over the years, yet people still seem to get it in their heads that its difficlt
that being said its one thing to build a computer and its anouther to build it and have it properly configured (bios settings, os, drivers, ect)

i was self taught and start building PCs using junk (P1s and 486s)
and honestly building them back then is harder then it is today, sure theres new problems like heat, drivers, power, compatibility, but back then most of the options in the bios of today had to be done with jumpers on the mobo, and if you stuff some of then up then say goodbye to your computer (common stuff up with most people is clocking the CPU and setting the voltage)

for the first timer id recomend using some junk first (theres plenty of old p4 gear out there), that way if you do cock it up your not wrecking $100 - $1000 worth of gear and youll also have the confidence knowing that if you stuff up this time it doesnt overly matter. having someone there that knows how to put them together will certainly help (and gives you someone to blame if your gaming machine dies cause of incorrect instalation).

Just about everything in a computer nowadays can only go in one way and only into one socket, so your saved some troubble and effort there. As far as putting the hardware together the most common mistake ive seen people make is placing the ram in. Either they try to place it in the wrong way, get the wrong ram for the mobo (very rare), or they dont have the ram stick paired correctly (which is suprising because they are coloured nowadays). the second common mistake is bending the CPU pin/s, this is is as serious (for you) as it is funny (for others), once bent (even if its just one) it comprimises the CPU (perfomance level, life.

the only part of the computer that stores power for any significant amount of time is the PSU (power supply unit), its internal (and unlikely to get out) and that can be easly discharged. the second device is the cmos battery, do not remove it unless its dead (some cant be removed).

all motherboards come with a poster sized quick instalation instructions that give you each step, follow that and you should be fine, (for advanced features and other instruntion refer to the user manuel) but look below for my basic guide/method.

before building have all the parts with you, start building on a flat solid workbentch (or kitchen table) that is free of anything that can be harmful to a computer. at most only two tools are required to build a computer using standard equipment. a philips head screwdriver and a pair of neadle nose pliers (best non magnetic but the weak one for a screwdriver should casue you no troubble).

lay the case flat on its side (component bay facing up). 1st step is to screw the motherboard stand off screws into the case in the approprite layout. next fix the I/O sheild into the slot. Carefull lower the mobo into position and screw down. that give you the base to start adding parts to and while it doesnt overly matter which order they go in i recommend following this:

please note this if for a standard non water cooled PC
and any aditional cooling measures or extras should be instaled when nessesary/convenent

cooling fans
CPU
CPU heasink (remember to apply thermal paste)
RAM
front panel connectors, they are the mass of wires attached to the case (refer to mobo users guide to where they go)
PSU
wire the psu to the mobo
HDDs
CDs
Graphics card + any aditional cards
finish the wiring and cables
test the system, if ok attach case pannels and your finished

 

[Clain]

I've heard of these SLI thingys, am I right in saying that they enable you to fit two cards on one motherboard? Or something along those lines? I'm useless when it comes to knowing things like that. I'm sure I'll find an answer on wikipedia if I look lol.

yes you can have multiple graphics cards attached to one computer, but heres where it gets tricky, SLI only works with nVidia graphics cards and Crossfire with ATI. They both perform the same function in that they join two graphics cards together but the do so in different ways (ill let you google it).

With SLI a max of 3 graphics cards can be joined (total 3 GPUs), however 4 GPUs can be attached if you using Quad SLI (2x 2GPU cards ie duel 9800 GX2s). Crossfire can join 4 graphics cards together, but im not sure if there is a limmit on GPUs, reguardless 4 GPUs can be joined in Crossfire (possible max of 8 IF 4 duel gpu cards can run together)

in both of these the gpus are used for gaming

it is possable to use 8 gpus (maybe more) in one computer (without Crossfire or SLI) but only one can be used for graphics.
this requires you to learn the language CUDA which builds programs that use the GPU to do the calcualtions, and with just one high end card (like the 9800 GX2 or the 280 GTX) youve got yourself the equivalent of a small supercomputer but that is only dependant on the task being done and your programing skills, after all most modern GPUs are severl times faster then the CPU running it.

these guys have built a monster of a machine

http://www.dvhardware.net/article27538.html

4 x nVidia 9800 GX2s combined to form the equivalent of a 256 node supercompter doing the same task (tomography) not bad for something that sits in a tower case and costs less then 4000USD (when they made it). i did read somewhere that nVidia donated 8 9800 GX2s to someone thats trying to build a 16 GPU pc. but i havnt found out if hes done it or not.

anyway back on topic if you refer to my post above Wlkn you can see my stance on multicarding (in gaming)

and while im here since everyone else is posting comp stats i might as well share with you my gaming beast

Phenom 9850 Black Edition CPU (125W quad core, standard clock @ 2.5GHz)
Gigabyte GA-MA790FX-DQ6 Motherboard
2x2Gb Team Xtreem 1066Mhz RAM (with unlimited warenty )
nVidia 9800 GX2 (standard, i got it a couple of weeks after it came out)
750W Zalman Powersurply

o and to the person that said it... im the random guy that said the 9800 hard too keep clean
since the card cant be pulled apart without risks to the internals it is difficlut to get at the dust that gets trapped inside (and since the two GPUs share the same heatsink this is a big problem if you intend to use the card for a long period of time).

Easyest soultion ive found is removing the card and using a aircompressor and vacume cleaner together to get as much of the dust as possable out, but this can cause clumps of the stuff to apear, if you can get to it use cotten buds to extract otherwise try changing the position and speed of the aircompressor and vacume

 

[werepossum]

SNIP
I also buy practically all my parts from Newegg, but neophytes should realize the Egg uses a real-time pricing engine based on supply. When supply of a particular part gets low, the price goes up. When a new shipment comes in, the price goes down. Thus you need to keep up with prices over some period of time before buying to avoid nasty surprises.

Would that constitute 67$ RAM going all the way to 247$ for 4gigs in that real-time pricing?

I doubt it, but it might. I've never personally seen a swing of more than 40% or 50%, but I don't buy all that much so I might have missed it. Also, sometimes retailers hold prices on a particular product way too long (e.g. a $400 ATI 9800 Pro Card in 2006), I'm guessing perhaps because of agreements with manufacturers, and when the price drops, it may drop radically to match competing products. But that's conjecture; the real-time pricing engine is fact, but becomes really significant only at the very low and very high ends of stock levels from what I've seen.

With regards to Crossfire and SLI, it's worth saying that although these setups may be listed as the best deal for a certain price point, the motherboard will cost more for the same quality and features, games which aren't on the chip company's radar may run poorly or (rarely) even not run at all until nvidia or ATI/AMD gets around to writing optimized code in its next driver, and power consumption is almost always higher than with a comparably performing single card. Thus I always take Crossfire and SLI recommendations with a big ol' artery-choking grain of salt. YMMV.

 

[werepossum]

Whats the most bang for my buck going with graphic cards? Cause this christmas I might go instead for a high end one since this pc is shaping up rapidly.

If you want the absolute MOST bang for your buck graphics card, I would have to recommend the Radeon 4850.
"GASP! But Aries, you've stated yourself that you despise AMD with a passion!"
It's true, I do. But I also know a decent GFX card, and although I have never used it, apparently the 4850 is a godsend for the sub-$200 category.

Hey Aries, don't mean to be rude or nothin', but uh, I've always been under the impression that the best bang-for-buck card has been the 8800GT [http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814500007]. I admit, I'm not so great with computers (I'm alright, but not so great), so perhaps you could shed some light on this?

SNIP
For this particular guide, remember that the excellent HD 4870 made nvidia magically transform the $400 260 and 9800GX2 into the $300 260 and 9800GX2, so the August guide will probably have the $290 to $310 slots as a three-way tie. Either of the three should make you proud.

The 8800GT is an excellent card and a good value, but hardly the most bang for the buck. The cards with the most bang for the buck are always the cheaper cards, but for gaming it's the steeper slopes on the value curve that provide the best experiences. Just avoid the very top, because as you reach the top of the line it gets very expensive to buy more performance. One thing to remember for gaming is that the card with the most bang for the buck at this instant is seldom the card with the most bang for the buck overall because it will need to be replaced more quickly. If you can afford the extra $40 or so for an HD 4850, do it.
SNIP

Seems I was wrong about at least one, maybe two things. Here's the August video card guide.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-graphics-card,1987.html
The 260 still doesn't rate a recommendation as an equally good buy, just the 4870.

Second thing, I just saw an eVGA 8800GT card for $119 after rebate. At that price, it probably is the best bang for the buck, Stompy. I'd still recommend the 4850, 4870, 9800GX2, or 9800GTX though, depending on budget, if you're a gamer who likes games with cutting-edge graphics like Crysis or Oblivion. Those will last longer, especially the first three (the 9800GTX being perilously close to an overclocked 8800GT in many games.)

 

[Aries_Split]

Okay folks, I'm back after my ban. *grumble grumble...*

 

[stompy]

Seems I was wrong about at least one, maybe two things. Here's the August video card guide.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-graphics-card,1987.html
The 260 still doesn't rate a recommendation as an equally good buy, just the 4870.

Second thing, I just saw an eVGA 8800GT card for $119 after rebate. At that price, it probably is the best bang for the buck, Stompy. I'd still recommend the 4850, 4870, 9800GX2, or 9800GTX though, depending on budget, if you're a gamer who likes games with cutting-edge graphics like Crysis or Oblivion. Those will last longer, especially the first three (the 9800GTX being perilously close to an overclocked 8800GT in many games.)

Thanks for the advice, but I'm only a window shopper when it comes to PC hardware. I'll most likely build my own computer when this generation ends, so I'm not in the market right now.