Asking a girl's dad for permission to go out with his daughter
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Thank you. Most of my friends just find it weird when I do it. I always tell them that if the father has a problem with me, the relationship will never work out (even though I've never been in a relationship yet).Everin said:You are the applaudable fellows I like to see around hereDeath God said:
I'd say to her "Okay, I'll protect you... by showing you that you are your own person and you are not owned by your parents. I will not ask your father for "permission" because you deserve far more respect than being treated like his possession, and I will look after you by showing you this respect."
And then I'll have passed the test because I can only assume that someone who really loves me only asked this because I'd put myself across as a liberal and a feminist and they wanted to be sure those were really my values.
And then I'll have passed the test because I can only assume that someone who really loves me only asked this because I'd put myself across as a liberal and a feminist and they wanted to be sure those were really my values.
I can't even understand why people still think it's right to ask the father permission to marry a woman.
You can say "it's traditional" but you wouldn't stop women from voting because "it's traditional". And the 'tradition' comes from the same history of thinking: Women are not real people, they are only possessions of their father and then their husband.
You can say "it's traditional" but you wouldn't stop women from voting because "it's traditional". And the 'tradition' comes from the same history of thinking: Women are not real people, they are only possessions of their father and then their husband.
I've never been one for traditions that don't have a logical use or good meaning. Meeting my current girlfriends father? Asking for his permission when it should be up to her? Fuck that! Especially since she hates her father.
Man, someone is really sour today. I'll try and go through this as qucikly and painlessly as possible for you.Fagotto said:
1. The tradition is not nessesarily sexist in any way. You simply choose to view it that way. The tradition is acceptance into the family, which in this case, is to ask permission to date said girl. Archaic version? Yes. Wrong by any standpoint? No. Ask most girls and you'll quickly find that acceptance by their family is a fairly high priority (if the standing relationship between daughter and parents is good) and that those same girls value their parent's opinion far more than what the guy ever says. It's not about being owned by the man of the house, it's about respect for the parental figures. If the mother was the matriarch of the family, they would be consulted over the father. However, in this example, the father is the patriarch and has established the dominant position in this scenario where in he is deemed the best judge of character of boys between the two parents.
2. His ten minute judgement could be the same amount of time she's known the guy. Not every relationship starts with a friendship that's lasted for years and years on end. The scenairo clearly depicts that the girl in question will only start dating the guy if he meets her parents. If acceptance by the family is the clear cut goal of the exercise (which it was not, as stated by the OP) then the guy could have been known for a total of the passing of a phone number to the extent of being a childhood friend. This variable is not given and is completely irrelevant to the question at hand. In an extrapolated scenario, I would say that it's still customary to meet the parents, no matter how long the girl has known the guy in question.
3. Unless there's some sort of falling out between parents and child, it is very customary on both sides to meet the parents, whether we're talking about the guy or the girl. However, it is also customary for the suitor to meet the parents of the courted individual first. The parents of the suiter are only involved once the courted individual has been successfully courted and a relationship is formed. This is still practiced widely, believe it or not, but not nessesarily in the strictest of practices as the given example of meeting the parents before dating.
4. I never said that the female needs to be the courted individual, simply that in the scenario this is what's presented. Indeed, we have broken that gender barrier and girls can now freely court men as much as men court women. However, what does stand true is that the suitor (whatever gender they may be) is set on the courted (whatever gender they may be) and that the courted has a less complete judgement about their partner in the relationship. This would be exact why they are being courted and why the suitor is seeking to gain more of their favour.
5. Giving into a request isn't courageous, I agree. Accepting the fact that your viewpoint isn't the only viewpoint in the entire world and that this might mean something to the person you love so you might want to get off your soap box for ten seconds and suck it up is courageous because it means you've had to step out of your comfort zone to please another person. The only two people in this world that will lvoe you for who you are are your parents and that's not even a given. Everyone else in this world will expect you to change who you are to be loved. The beautiful thing about a relationship is that you will want to change certain aspects of your person for that individual and they will want to do the same for you!
6. The only thing that would make it a stupid request is if it meant nothing to her. The fact is, it does mean something to her so it is therefore not a stupid request. A stupid answer, however, would be to crush the girl in quesiton by saying it's a stupid request because it means nothing to her. That would be the qucikest way to rejection, rather than informing her of your thoughts on the subject matter and her informing you that it has nothing to do with sexist values or passing of ownership but rather acceptance of her family and that you've proven you actually have some convinction in your love for her.
7. The bottom line is that you can strawman any argument by interjecting some unseen variable like sexism simply because it's a guy courting a girl in a traditional manner and overlook the heart of the matter which is that the individual is searching for unknown qualities that they find attractive by providing an obstacle in the relationship which the suitor must overcome, whether by questioning the point of the exercise and finding the true meaning to then confront the problem head on to just plain accepting the challenge and confronting it head on. The entire scenario has nothing to do with sexism but rather a question of: "If the perosn you liked asked that before you date them, they wanted you to ask their parents for permission because they felt it was the right thing to do, would you indulge that" which everyone should be answeriing "yes" to because it proves they have the quality of giving a little to get a little (in this case giving into the request to gain trust in the newly born relationship) that is crucial to the success of deeper, more debilitating points of a relationship (even if our viewpoints don't synch 100% would you still love me?).
Good try, though.
So because I hold open a door for a woman or pull her chair out for her I'm sexist? Thats Bull&%*# plain and simple. Your the type of person who would publicly go up to me and get in my face for holding open a door for a girl did it ever cross your PC mind that it might be a courtesy, nothing more? Of course not well let me break it down for you when I hold a door open a door for a girl its me doing nothing more than being respectful, I was raised to believe that woman and my elders were to be respected in this manner its not meant to imply that the girl is weak or feeble Im full aware she can open the damn door herself same goes for say protecting her in a fight am I saying my girl cant kick some ass no in fact I've seen her do it BUT I dont want to see her get hurt out of love I'd do the same thing for say my child. Do I respect other guys as well sure but in different ways like shaking hands when we meet (this stupid fist bumping crap has to go im pretty sure monkeys do this). My point is Sexism in and of itself would mean I feel superior to women and I don't neither do a lot of guys that do follow these traditions.
To quote Dara O'Briain as I cannot find the youtube clip "you're asking for my permission? She hasn't asked for my permission in years"
I think if you are quite young then it might be a good way to introduce yourself to the family though it is a bit redundant nowadays.
EDIT
Wow this is an old thread.
I think if you are quite young then it might be a good way to introduce yourself to the family though it is a bit redundant nowadays.
EDIT
Wow this is an old thread.
My thoughts exactly, that is some weird creepy ass ish, if I were you I would get the hell out of there while you can she sounds mentally unstable.1010101 said:
Well, if I have to... I think it's fairly stupid in the 21'st century and anything, but then again... I have no idea how things are run at her place, and it's not that big of a sacrifice to play along.
It's never really happened to me, though.
EDIT: Oh, dear... Rather old thread. Uuuhh... I didn't mean... I didn't mean to violate your tomb! Please, it was an accident! No... Not the scarabs!
It's never really happened to me, though.
EDIT: Oh, dear... Rather old thread. Uuuhh... I didn't mean... I didn't mean to violate your tomb! Please, it was an accident! No... Not the scarabs!
