cball11 said:
I'm fairly certain atheism precludes the need for ethics and beliefs on the whole. If something has a plausible and supportable scientific definition, there is no need for anything else. Ethics are socially accepted rules of overt behavior, while beliefs are obstacles in path of progress. There. No other definitions necessary.
So, I suppose the only belief I subscribe to, what small minds would call my religious system, is that there is nothing in the entire universe that cannot be fully understood, classified, and duplicated, provided enough knowledge and resources are available or procurable.
I feel happy and warm inside.
I'd have to go right out and say that atheism, in general, in no way precludes either ethics or beliefs. Atheism and rational thinking aren't synonymous and shouldn't be treated as such. While many, indeed maybe even most atheists may have arrived at their decision through rational thought, a great deal are just doing it for completely irrational reasons. Prime example: because of contradictions in The Bible ("The Bible is internally inconsistant, therefore there is no God" is just as much a logical fallacy as "proving" God's existance using only The Bible. The most you could conclude from this is that God
specifically as laid out in The Bible doesn't exist, and that's hardly the only God people have believed in).
What I'm basically trying to say is that while atheism and the scientific process are often observed to go hand-in-hand, and many scientists are atheist, not all atheists are scientists or even rational in their reasons for being atheist. I've met Christians who are very rational in their belief in God (one of my best friends is one). Yours is just one brand of atheism, one that seems to preclude having beliefs and ethics for purely emotional reasons (correct me if I'm wrong); it's a fallacy to assume that all atheists think such. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with your belief system (please don't even start an argument on whether or not it actually is a belief system - just humour me and pretend it is), I don't think it's my place to decide whether anyone's belief system is wrong or not unless it jars strongly against my morals, I'm just saying that the average atheist is no more rational than the average theist.
I'm currently undecided as to whether I'm atheist or not, but I'm most definitely agnostic (to clarify, I believe that it's impossible for anyone to know right now, maybe ever), and that's a position I arrived at through (what I hope was) extensive rational introspection. And I will happily admit that, regarding ethics, I believe the way I believe based on a gut feeling, an emotional response.
