Bethesda: Consoles to be the lead platform for Skyrim, aim to make it ?really accessible?

[DustStorm]

I don't think this means that they are going to be "dumbing down" the gamer for consoles, instead I think it means that the game will be easier to use with a controller because it was quite obvious in Bethesda's previous games(Oblivion, Fallout 3 etc.) that the game and its GUI was designed with PC in mind making the game's menu's slightly difficult to browse through. For example, the long item lists and map were much easier to control on a PC as well as VATS which was a hellish nightmare at times in Fallout with a controller. So there's no reason to worry, in my opinion.

 

[Twilight_guy]

As for "dumbing down" everything that anyone has ever cited as an example has been an example of design decisions not something based on some limiting factor due to consoles or PC. "dumbing down" is a separate issue all together from console or PC and I hate to see people conflating the two. Complex games run on consoles simple games run on PC and vice versa.

What are you saying? That consoles are not limited to controllers, that I can plug a mouse and keyboard into my ps3 and be able to control gran turismo? or that I could plug a controller into my PC and be able to play civ 5?

Consoles have numerous limiting factors, control style is the most important. Many games are designed with the limitations of consoles, for example many console FPSs have some sort of auto-aim to compensate for the fact that you get more control from aiming with your wrist and fingers with a mouse than you do with your thumb on a stick. (I certainly find this to be the case)

Theres also the interface, something like Civ 5s interface cannot be transfered to a console controller, so the interface of any console rts must be limited, cut down, simplified, or "dumbed down."

It is possible to "dumb down" a game for consoles and it's often a necessity due to the limitations of the controller. However, it would be more accurate to call it simplifying, or consolizing rather than dumbing down.

It wouldn't be necessary, in most cases, if console games supported mouse and keyboard interfaces, but then no one would be able to complain.

As for the dumbing down of games like mass effect 2, I can't imagine anyone blaming that on the hardware. It was pitiful attempt to grab more of the market, specifically the gears of war market, however any gains they made in GoW players were offset by the loss of more traditional RPG players aka Bioware's former core demographic.

Yes you can plug a controller into your PC, XBox controllers do that.

Aside from that, yeah I don't give a damn what the input device is. Input device is arbitrary, Wii has motion controller, PS3 has controller PC has mouse and keyboard. No one is better then the other that's a personal preference choice. The keyboard allows for more input buttons but as a reasult its harder to get to them. Controllers have buttons that are better designed for games but have less button and require more mapping of buttons. The only real advantage is a mouse which allows more fine controller then a thumbstick but honestly I know people who like thumbsticks better then mice anyways.

Auto-aim is something that is programmed in to aid console controls. You can remove it by commenting out one line of code (unless the thing is poorly coded) and actually adds complexity to the system since it is something on top of the regular game, a addition step to aim correct. (Also, I know of PC games that have auto-aim too). You're going to have to be more specific on "interface." I can understand thast once again the mouse allows fine control of things and makes selecting units easier but that's not really a valid argument. Yeah you cant use that on a console but that mean its dumbed down. My PS3 doesn't recognize motion control and thus can't play wii sports but I don't say its dumbed down, it just requires a different type of interface since the controls are different.

I can understand your point that the user interface must be different but I'm specifically noting the false argument that things are "dumbed down" and the negative implication that comes with it. Obviously they are different but different and "dumbed down" are not used interchangeably and I want to specifically register my displeasure with people who think consoles are "dumbed down" because they are not full PCs.

 

[Awexsome]

I'm sure everyone would much rather prefer that all platforms were getting an fair amount of attention and polish as needed instead of singling out one as the "lead" platform for something.

I mean isn't it the developer's JOB to find that happy medium between the PC's over-complexity and pretentiousness and the consoles' dumbed-down stupidity?

 

[Wintermoot]

oh fuck
first Duke Nukem and now The Elder scrolls getting dumbed down!

I find the phrase "Duke Nukem getting dumbed down" to be slightly paradoxical.

well look at the demo they changed the maximum weapon count you can carry to 2 and removed the kick.

 

[Twilight_guy]

Discuss? PC gamers are a bunch of elitist pricks who will be upset by this. I really see no other reason why anyone would care what its developed for. On top of that the base-less accusation of "dumbed down" is getting on my nerves. What the hell does that even mean? Other then that... meh I don't really carer what they develop on PC and consoles are mostly the same.

Well....... first of all developing for consoles and porting over to PC, makes no sense.
Much more sense is made when it is developed for PC with consoles in mind, because then you avoid all the hardware isssues that come with different PC setups, dumbing down means that the game starts treating you like your an idiot, for example in morrowind you did not have a huge red arrow point where to go, sure it was much more comfortable in oblivion with a huge red arrow, but most of the time I did feel screaming stop showing me where to go, i can figure this out for myself, then i modded out the arrow and fast travel system and lived happily ever after until i realised that oblivion ultimately sucked compared to morrowind.

yes I am a PC elitist btw, proud of it infact, the witcher series FTW!!!!! I'm out.

Except it does. All games are developed on PCs. Consoles have limited specs and thus encourage optimizations. PC games need optimizations too. Therefor developing it to run on a console means developing it to run well on PCs too. Yes, that means you don't address different PC set-ups but honestly nobody can account for the infinite combination of PC set-ups. If you get your working build to run on the PC before testing on the consoles, grats it runs on PCs. (nobody is going to go test dozens of graphics cards, different OSs, and different combinations of settings). Consoles and PCs are the same under the hood its just a matter of the software running them and how you use it. Consoles have the more limited hardware and thus are better to benchmark optimization. Working builds are developed on PCs and thus if the build works then it runs on PCs and if it runs on the test hardware, i.e. a consoles then it runs on a console. People are making a distinction that is arbitrary and asinine with PC vs. Console.

As for "dumbing down" everything that anyone has ever cited as an example has been an example of design decisions not something based on some limiting factor due to consoles or PC. "dumbing down" is a separate issue all together from console or PC and I hate to see people conflating the two. Complex games run on consoles simple games run on PC and vice versa.

I know people are entitled to their own opinions and what-not but all the fanboys are giving me a head-ache. Where is my anti-fanboy badge, I need some sparkles to crush.

First of all, I agree that dumbing down is a completely separate matter, but i have to say that all consoles might equal PC's, but all PCs do not equal consoles, time has shown that a game that is well optimized for consoles = a game that is not well optimized on any PC build, while a game that is well optimized on a PC works very well on consoles as well, it just costs more and takes more time, so basically they do a shittier job because it saves money this way with minimal revenue cost, can't argue that fact.

I'd like to see evidence of what platform optimization works best because I don't know and I'd like to see what the truth is. I know that as a general rule console games are optimized up the butt because specs are pre-know and usually really limited (Seriously specs on consoles pale in comparisons to most PCs but still get the job done amazingly) and PC games are less so since developers know that PC players usually throw tech at a game until it runs and specs aren't know in advance (there is only a list of specs).

 

[Aerograt]

I don't understand, more accessible doesn't mean it's best on the consoles, why are they the lead platforms for it? PC has mods.

 

[CupboardNinja]

I like how he's says they're moving away from all the stats. I think it's a much more immersive experience without tons of numbers clogging up the whole thing. And I can see how this is concerning to PC gamers, but I doubt they'll do a poor job on the port.

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

Em lets be honest here the last two Elder Scroll games have kinda stunk of this especially with the Menu UI. It was much easier to use either Morrowind or Oblivion's menu with a controller. At least it didn't affect other parts of the game so I think we should at least wait before going it is going to be dumbed and shit. Also this is what mods are for. We get a game then make it better. One thing that is bothering me is the "move" away from stats. Oblivion was already stat light compared to much other older school titles.

 

[Vibhor]

This year will not be good for gaming. At all!
Any ways. I hated oblivion enough as it was. The lack of many different things bugged me a lot.
This news is good for the console player but I guess what news isn't?
On the other note, my wallet seems to be feeling safer.

 

[The Rockerfly]

Translation

We are going to make the menu system usable and not overload it with unnecessary stupid shit

Actually I don't know if it is but as much as I would like Skyrim on PC, I haven't got a powerful enough computer so it's my xbox for me

 

[Vibhor]

Em lets be honest here the last two Elder Scroll games have kinda stunk of this especially with the Menu UI. It was much easier to use either Morrowind or Oblivion's menu with a controller. At least it didn't affect other parts of the game so I think we should at least wait before going it is going to be dumbed and shit. Also this is what mods are for. We get a game then make it better. One thing that is bothering me is the "move" away from stats. Oblivion was already stat light compared to much other older school titles.

Morrowind was ported from PC to xbox not the other way round.
It was much more easier to use the inventory on the PC as you didn't had to scroll through thousands of clutter items. On the other hand oblivion only had 10 items per screen and had horribly inconvieneint UI

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

Em lets be honest here the last two Elder Scroll games have kinda stunk of this especially with the Menu UI. It was much easier to use either Morrowind or Oblivion's menu with a controller. At least it didn't affect other parts of the game so I think we should at least wait before going it is going to be dumbed and shit. Also this is what mods are for. We get a game then make it better. One thing that is bothering me is the "move" away from stats. Oblivion was already stat light compared to much other older school titles.

Morrowind was ported from PC to xbox not the other way round.
It was much more easier to use the inventory on the PC as you didn't had to scroll through thousands of clutter items. On the other hand oblivion only had 10 items per screen and had horribly inconvieneint UI

Maybe it really was but to be honest lots of the user interface did scream it was skewed more to consoles. It could have been that back then they cared more. I could be wrong and they actually did but they do both look like console ports just a tad more optimised for PC.

 

[ImprovizoR]

I'm not worried. Whatever they fuck up, mods will fix.

 

[Vibhor]

Maybe it really was but to be honest lots of the user interface did scream it was skewed more to consoles. It could have been that back then they cared more. I could be wrong and they actually did but they do both look like console ports just a tad more optimised for PC.

No it didn't
Heck morrowind's UI was an improvement from daggerfall's 6 item per screen.
The only real kick to the balls was oblivion's UI. It was daggerfall all again. Only with less FPS.

 

[Frotality]

*sigh*

more shit modders are gonna have to fix.

oblivion was made for the console and it showed in the PC version...but i clocked in 200 hours anyway, so my response is "meh". just gonna have to wait for the unofficial patches and custom UIs.

i really wish developers would stop talking like stats are evil though; its really a kick in the balls and frankly very hypocritical coming from RPG developers who wouldnt be talking out their ass like this if they didnt think such announcements would attract players who are afraid of the 3rd grade math required to understand most stats.

 

[Retronana]

I don't mind, if Skyrim suffers from so called "console syndrome" I'll just mod the shit out of it and end up with a better Skyrim

I'm just hoping it doesn't end up catering to the lowest common denominator of "Hur Hur shoot shit it dies Hur Hur".

Also WTF, "remove stats" and it ceases to be elder scrolls. And there's no point sugar-coating it Bethesda, accessible means dumbed down and I thought oblivion was dumbed down enough... this isn't even good news to console players, if anything the fact that Bethesda think they need to make it "really accessible" is insulting to console players.

As a previous console gamer I certainly would feel insulted.

 

[Sizzle Montyjing]

Does this mean the horses won't handle like a wheelie bin full of hamsters?
Because that annoyed me.
And why all the hate for Skyrim? It's going to be awsome!

 

[Vault101]

not that Im that interested in skyrim..but it probably wont be a bad port

 

[Nihilm]

Discuss? PC gamers are a bunch of elitist pricks who will be upset by this. I really see no other reason why anyone would care what its developed for. On top of that the base-less accusation of "dumbed down" is getting on my nerves. What the hell does that even mean? Other then that... meh I don't really carer what they develop on PC and consoles are mostly the same.

Well....... first of all developing for consoles and porting over to PC, makes no sense.
Much more sense is made when it is developed for PC with consoles in mind, because then you avoid all the hardware isssues that come with different PC setups, dumbing down means that the game starts treating you like your an idiot, for example in morrowind you did not have a huge red arrow point where to go, sure it was much more comfortable in oblivion with a huge red arrow, but most of the time I did feel screaming stop showing me where to go, i can figure this out for myself, then i modded out the arrow and fast travel system and lived happily ever after until i realised that oblivion ultimately sucked compared to morrowind.

yes I am a PC elitist btw, proud of it infact, the witcher series FTW!!!!! I'm out.

Except it does. All games are developed on PCs. Consoles have limited specs and thus encourage optimizations. PC games need optimizations too. Therefor developing it to run on a console means developing it to run well on PCs too. Yes, that means you don't address different PC set-ups but honestly nobody can account for the infinite combination of PC set-ups. If you get your working build to run on the PC before testing on the consoles, grats it runs on PCs. (nobody is going to go test dozens of graphics cards, different OSs, and different combinations of settings). Consoles and PCs are the same under the hood its just a matter of the software running them and how you use it. Consoles have the more limited hardware and thus are better to benchmark optimization. Working builds are developed on PCs and thus if the build works then it runs on PCs and if it runs on the test hardware, i.e. a consoles then it runs on a console. People are making a distinction that is arbitrary and asinine with PC vs. Console.

As for "dumbing down" everything that anyone has ever cited as an example has been an example of design decisions not something based on some limiting factor due to consoles or PC. "dumbing down" is a separate issue all together from console or PC and I hate to see people conflating the two. Complex games run on consoles simple games run on PC and vice versa.

I know people are entitled to their own opinions and what-not but all the fanboys are giving me a head-ache. Where is my anti-fanboy badge, I need some sparkles to crush.

First of all, I agree that dumbing down is a completely separate matter, but i have to say that all consoles might equal PC's, but all PCs do not equal consoles, time has shown that a game that is well optimized for consoles = a game that is not well optimized on any PC build, while a game that is well optimized on a PC works very well on consoles as well, it just costs more and takes more time, so basically they do a shittier job because it saves money this way with minimal revenue cost, can't argue that fact.

I'd like to see evidence of what platform optimization works best because I don't know and I'd like to see what the truth is. I know that as a general rule console games are optimized up the butt because specs are pre-know and usually really limited (Seriously specs on consoles pale in comparisons to most PCs but still get the job done amazingly) and PC games are less so since developers know that PC players usually throw tech at a game until it runs and specs aren't know in advance (there is only a list of specs).

Well basically if a game is first optimized for PC's the game has good general optimization, which means it works quite well on all different builds as well as the console builds, sure there will be a few abstract builds that are overlooked, but most will work, if they optimize it for consoles first then they usually neglect general optimization which means there is a high number of builds the game works poorly for, but well atleast it works on the build that makes the most money, if your wondering then obviously it is easier to optimize for 1 build rather than multiple builds, also it's cheaper and takes less time, so yeah you can see why they do this.