Bethesda: Why 90% of the community is misinformed

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Krajin

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Feb 6, 2009
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I have been playing both for a hell of a long time now. And yeah, no matter how ya coat this, this is a THING A vs THING B post. I adore bioware more then bethesda, mainly because I found there storylines to be more memorable then the other. But the end all (in my eyes) was what someone said before...MULTIPLAYER! Not any of that deathmatch crap, a fully functional co-op campaign would be amazing in any of the newer worlds both sides created (As I wait patiently for sw:tor) But it seems threads like this are just tending to ruffle feathers. In the end, both have there highs and lows.
 

VulakAerr

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Mar 31, 2010
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You know what? I don't care. I don't know a huge amount about either company. All I know is which style of RPG I prefer.

That isn't to say I don't have a great time in Bethesda's huge, epic worlds, and that I'm not dizzied by the huge number of things presented before me, but something about Bioware's narratives grips me tighter and allows me to relate to my character more. And to me, relating to my character is what an RPG is about. I am playing that person. Given that nobody is forcing me to choose between the companies, I can happily play TES V shortly followed by ME3 and be as happy as can be. If I had to choose though, I would choose Bioware every time. That's discounting anything anybody might have said about the technical quality of Bethesda's games or wailing about how Bioware should never have left the Infinity engine (care to join us in the 21st century?). It's just my personal preference.

There's no need to get upset when somebody else has a preference in contrast to your own.
 

Rainboq

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Nov 19, 2009
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mentalkitty789 said:
Rainboq said:
mentalkitty789 said:
Agreed. I've only claimed the Bethesda make Fallout 3 and the Elder Scroll games. I knew New Vegas wasn't made by them.
Probably why it pissed me off more. When ever I played that game, my Bethesda instincts would lead me to wander off the given path and, get killed by a swarm of mutant wasps or a herd of mutant rhinos.
Your avatar is ADORABLE!

OT: THANK YOU!

...For some reason I feel sexually assaulted... Anyway thanks, i found this pic a while back, don't remember were, but I've adored it sense then.
X3 It is cute, also, may I direct you to the Catgirl Lovers [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/groups/view/Catgirl-Lovers] group? There are many an adorable Neko to be found!
 

Legion

Were it so easy
Oct 2, 2008
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MiracleOfSound said:
I love both of them to bits but Bethesda should make sure their third party devs have time to make games that actually work.
Indeed. I loved New Vegas but it's the first game in a while where my ire was earned by the quality of the game itself as opposed to poor design choices in the creation of the game.
 

Drake_Dercon

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Sep 13, 2010
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Both are amazing devs. Both have hit the nail on the head at some point in my gaming experience. Both lack what the other has (except character investment and the ability to create visually stunning worlds).
Bethesda is great for open-world games, equipment modding, actual modding, "imaginary" role-playing, immersion and atmosphere. They fail at debugging, AI, character interaction, characterization and making you feel bad for people as you murder their families (how they manage to achieve that AND remain immersive, I'll never know).
BioWare excels at character interaction, characterization, story and actual role-playing. They don't do so well at open-world gameplay (even the illusion of it is incomplete) and I haven't seen much modding go into a BioWare game since... I haven't seen much modding go into a BioWare game.
Now if they could work together... what a game there could be.
Or a catastrophic failure. Hard to tell.
Personally, I'm pre-ordering both DA2 and Skyrim.
 

mentalkitty789

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Dec 30, 2010
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Rainboq said:
mentalkitty789 said:
Rainboq said:
mentalkitty789 said:
Agreed. I've only claimed the Bethesda make Fallout 3 and the Elder Scroll games. I knew New Vegas wasn't made by them.
Probably why it pissed me off more. When ever I played that game, my Bethesda instincts would lead me to wander off the given path and, get killed by a swarm of mutant wasps or a herd of mutant rhinos.
Your avatar is ADORABLE!

OT: THANK YOU!

...For some reason I feel sexually assaulted... Anyway thanks, i found this pic a while back, don't remember were, but I've adored it sense then.
X3 It is cute, also, may I direct you to the Catgirl Lovers [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/groups/view/Catgirl-Lovers] group? There are many an adorable Neko to be found!
Thanks I'll take a look. That picture is of a catBOY though. XwX Still I'll take a look, and probably sell my soul to them, well what ever is left of it.
 

MrJohnson

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May 13, 2009
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Lucifron said:
Omnific One said:
I have another one!

Myth: Bethesda makes stable, logical, and bug-free games with a mature attitude.
Fact: They don't, but guess who does?
Myth: BioWare games have deep great games with no lore-breaking or ridiculous retcons.
Fact: Mass Effect 2 was a piece of shit.

Myth: BioWare games have deep, interesting leveling systems.
Fact: Fuck ME2 up the ass with spike.

Myth: BioWare games have varied interesting missions.
Fact: Half of ME2 game time is spent doing samey trust quests.

I guess my opinion is just that BioWare is a bunch of asssholes who simplified their series and games more then the CoD series has now.

Edit: I call no mentioning games that are now almost 20 years old. BioWare's old, good work, does not balance out since half of their staff is different by now (I'm guessing) and are controlled entirely by EA and by extension doing whatever stupid shit EA thinks will make a game sell better.
 

Rainboq

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2009
16,620
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41
mentalkitty789 said:
Rainboq said:
mentalkitty789 said:
Rainboq said:
mentalkitty789 said:
Agreed. I've only claimed the Bethesda make Fallout 3 and the Elder Scroll games. I knew New Vegas wasn't made by them.
Probably why it pissed me off more. When ever I played that game, my Bethesda instincts would lead me to wander off the given path and, get killed by a swarm of mutant wasps or a herd of mutant rhinos.
Your avatar is ADORABLE!

OT: THANK YOU!

...For some reason I feel sexually assaulted... Anyway thanks, i found this pic a while back, don't remember were, but I've adored it sense then.
X3 It is cute, also, may I direct you to the Catgirl Lovers [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/groups/view/Catgirl-Lovers] group? There are many an adorable Neko to be found!
Thanks I'll take a look. That picture is of a catBOY though. XwX Still I'll take a look, and probably sell my soul to them, well what ever is left of it.
X3 There is a Catboy Club [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/groups/view/Catboy-Club] as well!
 

Rainboq

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2009
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41
MrJohnson said:
Lucifron said:
Omnific One said:
I have another one!

Myth: Bethesda makes stable, logical, and bug-free games with a mature attitude.
Fact: They don't, but guess who does?
Myth: BioWare games have deep great games with no lore-breaking or ridiculous retcons.
Fact: Mass Effect 2 was a piece of shit.

Myth: BioWare games have deep, interesting leveling systems.
Fact: Fuck ME2 up the ass with spike.

Myth: BioWare games have varied interesting missions.
Fact: Half of ME2 game time is spent doing samey trust quests.

I guess my opinion is just that BioWare is a bunch of asssholes who simplified their series and games more then the CoD series has now.
Dude, cut down on the ZP style stuff, try to be constructive in your criticism or you're be banned faster than you can say "But I was imitating Yahtzee!"
 

Daveman

has tits and is on fire
Jan 8, 2009
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They didn't make New Vegas? Then why do I love it as much as I loved Oblivion back in the day and yet still hate Fallout 3? Also I was looking forward to Rage...
Scout Tactical said:
Omnific One said:
After reading this thread, I legitimately like Bethesda less. I liked New Vegas and I am looking forward to Rage.
Oh, you too eh?

I guess I don't hate them because I never bought WET or Rogue Warrior...
 

MrJohnson

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May 13, 2009
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Rainboq said:
MrJohnson said:
Lucifron said:
Omnific One said:
I have another one!

Myth: Bethesda makes stable, logical, and bug-free games with a mature attitude.
Fact: They don't, but guess who does?
Myth: BioWare games have deep great games with no lore-breaking or ridiculous retcons.
Fact: Mass Effect 2 was a piece of shit.

Myth: BioWare games have deep, interesting leveling systems.
Fact: Fuck ME2 up the ass with spike.

Myth: BioWare games have varied interesting missions.
Fact: Half of ME2 game time is spent doing samey trust quests.

I guess my opinion is just that BioWare is a bunch of asssholes who simplified their series and games more then the CoD series has now.
Dude, cut down on the ZP style stuff, try to be constructive in your criticism or you're be banned faster than you can say "But I was imitating Yahtzee!"
Ugh. I wasn't really trying to be imitate Yatzhee, but I suppose I probably should have more justification for my opinions. In my defense though that's just the way I talk.
 

Dectilon

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Sep 20, 2007
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"Myth: Bethesda's games don't have a backstory/story and have no depth.
Fact: The Elder Scrolls games have an insane amount of lore. Their lore people can't even keep track of everything."

Isn't this in itself a misconception? I've seen numerous posts that "Oblivion's story was bad", but I don't think I've ever seen anyone say the Elder Scrolls series has a lack of lore. Also, depth doesn't mean the same thing as "if all the lore was printed you could use the pages to fill a deep well".
 

TerranReaper

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Mar 28, 2009
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It amazes me how people are willing to point out Bethesda as being the publisher of certain games but people are all too willing to blame Activision (The Publisher) as opposed to the developer in other topics.

In an on-topic note, I find the praise for Bioware having NO glitches to be astounding. Being a PC gamer, I've had terrible in getting Mass Effect 1 to even work on my computer. While Bethesda games are filled with glitches and bugs, I find it better that I can at least play the game and experience a few minutes of gameplay before experiencing some kind of bug. Nonetheless, they're both good developers and they make good games. It astounds me on the elitism that some people have when they believe their opinions are above others, whether you're a Bethesda fan or a Bioware fan. This thread is full of bias and twisting of facts to make their preferred developer sound a lot better, both developers have flaws, and it seems that no one is going to accept those flaws.
 

DaemonicShadow

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Dec 14, 2010
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The only real thing that gets to me concerning this is when people moan about how buggy BethSofts games are. Yes, some are buggy. Those games are also colossal. If you're gonna make a gameworld that big, I highly doubt you'd have the time or budget to fine comb them. Plus, if they're game-breaking, BethSoft will listen to people and patch it ASAP.
 

MrJoyless

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May 26, 2010
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i guess i wasnt informed enough to be mis informed seeing as i recognize both game makers but dont give a crap if they churn out diamonds or coal as long as i dont end up getting suprised with a crappy game (aka gaming websites/mags getting paid off to make good reviews....im looking at you Hellgate London....)

i dont really look at the makers of the game i look at the user reviews of the game

brand loyalty for me disappeared with the tragically slow pace of blizzard game development i couldnt wait for the next Starcraft or Diablo because it took damn near a decade to get the next one out so i went looking other places

sticking to one company or saying a company is trash because they made some or many crappy games is the broad generalization that gets applied to many things....races, religions, what country you are from, and in my opinion are just as silly as the previous topics

some of my favorite games have come from "trash" game makers like EA (deadspace) or Flagship Studios (Mythos)
 

Meteor4118

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Apr 7, 2008
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Personally I've never truly enjoyed a Bethesda game that wasn't frontlined by Obsidian in someway, I liked New Vegas far more than F3, the story was better, there was the typical humor from the Fallout universe instead of just samey blandness. And they had more than two celebrity VA's. I loved being able to explore and To be honest I personally wasn't really affected by bugs and didn't understand peoples claims of bugginess. Though I may have just been lucky, personally I didn't have a problem that I didn't see in the original F3.

Bethesda sets itself up to fail. They build a huge sandbox, and say you have freedom to do what you want, but you can only do it within the rules we give you. You can explore, but you can only explore... you know on the ground, or within the loaded zone and you can explore all the exploits you'd like that you can find in our system. Enjoy sneaking? While thanks to our terrible pathing and detection, you can sneak all day, in fact you'll even do it in plate, because god knows you should be able to, you'll get skill ups for when you're lucky enough that the enemies don't detect you, and these skill ups can grant you points towards your agility. There's no downside to not crouching, so you might as well do it 24/7. Well at least when you're not jamming on the spacebar to level your acrobatics. And If you don't like the work we do! You can enjoy the legion of free mods made by fans of our engines, but who generally despise our games, if they liked what we offered, they wouldn't make gigantic add-ons to our "quality title".

Bethesda sets up the player, to not enjoy the game, by giving them to much to do, and not allowing them do it all, or simply allowing them to do everything. Oblivion for example doesn't have any reason not to become guild master of everything. There's no downside to being the "greetest aseseen evar." You can still get the fame, to outweigh some infamy to do the god altars, you can beat your horse which because it can't die, just becomes a mobile inventory space. And you can go about your every day and join the other guilds because hey, when it boils down to it, "Death happens" so why would anyone care that you're a mass murdering bastard, when they've got oblivion gates outside but still have time to greet you with a nice how do you do, and complain how awful mudcrabs are.

I'm not saying Bioware is perfect though, I mean anyone who played through Dragon Age Origin's Sloth section will give you a mouthfull of WTF gameplay? But on the whole, Bioware produces a quality game, Characters feel alive, even the ones i can't talk to. One of the biggest complaints i've heard about Bioware games are the people who just stand in one place, stopping you from going past them, and essentially being nothing more than living blocks. But guess what, NOBODY TALKS TO EVERYONE! Bethesda will allow you to talk to every npc, regardless of their purpose in a mission or importance to the game. WHY IS THAT? Who honestly would talk to EVERYONE on a street, or in a town, and why is that even a conceivable option? So that I could find the 3 people in a town that might give me a quest I have to be able to talk to the town drunk, and all of the homeless people? That's not realism, that's a peaceful mass murderer, slaughtering his way through everyone else's free time by chatting them up.
 

veloper

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Therumancer said:
Lucifron said:
Therumancer said:
The point being that both developers are good, however Bethesda is more for the "hard core" RPG gaming crowd, where Bioware is aiming for a more general demographic.
*looks at Dragon Age, Icewind Dale, Baldur's Gate, Planescape Torment, KotOR*

*looks at The Elder Scrolls and Fallout 3*

What the hell are you smoking man?
Now read what I actually wrote.

Not only are a lot of those games so old that they pre-date Bioware as Bioware (Black Isle) but also I addressed several of them directly.

Dragon Age and KoTOR specifically represent the differance I'm talking about. Good games, with good storylines they are, but in the end they are also extremely linear games without much of an exploration element at all.

[snip]

I'm not knocking Bioware, it's simply that I think in the end Bethesda makes better games for a hardcore RPG fan (which I am). Bioware makes better games from the perspective of a more casual player. Both are however good enough where they don't simply attract one demographic though, as a lot of casuals play Elder Scroll games, and a lot of Hardcore players like Bioware RPGs (which I myself do). The style is however very differant and people are going to prefer one over the other when you get down to it.
Wandering around holding the walk button is hardcore now?

Knights of the Chalice is hard. Gothic 2 is hard.
Oblivion is not hard.
Instead of offering a fair challenge, Beth let you exploit loopholes to game their broken system. Time consuming doesn't equal hardcore. TES4 is casual.

On topic: while it's true that Bioware caters to storyfags and Beth caters to a different audience, that also means you can only compare their games on their technical merits and polish.
 

ZippyDSMlee

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Sep 1, 2007
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Omnific One said:
As everyone has inevitably seen, there is a massive Bio vs Beth poll running. And, as usual, everyone is attacking Bethesda with misinformation. So here we go:

Myth: Bethesda made all those terrible (and they are) games like WET, Rogue Warrior, etc.
Fact: Bethesda Game Studios has only made TES and FO3 in recent years. So those terrible games are published by Zenimax, the publishing arm masquerading under the Bethesda name. That's like saying Bioware is terrible because they "made" Spore (EA published it).

Myth: Bethesda's pumping out too many games lately. They are all going to be awful.
Fact: Bethesda (BGS)didn't make NV, and isn't making Hunted, Rage, or Brink.

Myth: Bethesda's games don't have a backstory/story and have no depth.
Fact: The Elder Scrolls games have an insane amount of lore. Their lore people can't even keep track of everything. See the Imperial Library: http://www.imperial-library.info/

That's about it right now. I just can't stand misinformation but I still adore Bioware, so don't take this as an attack :)

Still dose not make Oblivion or FO3 lil more than an over simplistic action game that goes on to long for the content it has....
 

Father Tunde

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Yes, the TeS series does have a lot of lore, it's just they tend to ignore it. Cyrodil was supposed to be a jungle, not a generic Fantasy Forest. I'm half expecting Skyrim to look like the Bahamas.

AlternatePFG said:
Not saying that I dislike Bethesda, but some people simply prefer BioWare. Bethesda makes their games differently from BioWare and vice-versa. BioWare is more linear and story based, while Bethesda makes open world games.
Never played a BioWare game, but how can you argue that Beths games are less linear? Oblivions story ends the same every time (as does every one of it's guilds, none of which allow you to join the enemy factions (Blackwood company, Necromancers, etc)), and the only difference in the Fallout 3 endings is a) Good option, or b) Bad option, neither of which have any real effect on the outcomes in the DLC.