BioWare Co-Founder Accuses JRPGs of Stagnation

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Flamezdudes

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While i adore Bioware and could say that i am a fanboy of them, it seems wrong of them to say this.

Mass Effect - Dark beings never seen before come about to destroy all organic life in the galaxy and only 1 man can stop them. (Spectre's as a special class)

Dragon Age - Dark beings from underneath the earth come to destroy the world. Only one type of hero can stop them, Grey Wardens.

Don't get me wrong, i love both games and Bioware so MUCH and can't wait for Mass Effect 2 but they seem a little like hypocrites.
 

v3n0mat3

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Bioware, I love you guys, but this is where I disagree with you. Look at the newer JRPGs coming out. Tell me they aren't different, or have changed. Look at FFXIII, that's very different from most RPGs today.
 

FinalHeart95

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Well of course he says this, he's part of a developer of WRPGs, why would he give props to the competition?

Some of it is true, but the problem here is that JRPGs are for the overly epic stories. If a story is really, really good, then I'd much rather it be linear. Knowing me, Id' make some dumbass choice to fuck it up.

Also, and I understand he isn't saying he wants this in the article, but the JRPG dying is a bad thing. Gaming is like a species. The more diversity there is to it, the better chance it has to survive.
 

Escapefromwhatever

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God, like BioWare has any room to talk. Sure, each of their games has its own unique features, but one could make a very convincing argument that Mass Effect and Dragon Age are basically just reskinned versions of KOTOR. Compare that with, say, the differences present in some Square Enix RPGS (Final Fantasy, Kingdom Hearts, and The World Ends With You all have incredibly different playstyles), and Zeschuk's statement just seems to make a little less impact.
 

theultimateend

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quellan_thyde said:
This from the same BioWare that has essentially been making the same game since the days of Neverwinter? Pot = kettle \ black.
My thoughts exactly.

I load up Neverwinter and then Load up Dragon Age...I look at this guys point...and I tilt my head like a curious kitten.

Course I'd much prefer a cookie cutter games that give me a story and gameplay I enjoy than most of the western ones that just annoy me.

I take it I was one of the few people who loaded up NWN2 (I realize Bioware didn't make it) and thought it was complete shite? I even played it for a while and that feeling just grew ever stronger.

I know it is my own personal opinion just as he has his, but I'm hard pressed to see the unique quality of western RPGs. I've played a ton and most of them lose my interest about the time I become ultra human, which isn't that far in. "I am now sporting two lightsabers and the ability to crush stars with my taint...fear me."

SuperMse said:
God, like BioWare has any room to talk. Sure, each of their games has its own unique features, but one could make a very convincing argument that Mass Effect and Dragon Age are basically just reskinned versions of KOTOR. Compare that with, say, the differences present in some Square Enix RPGS (Final Fantasy, Kingdom Hearts, and The World Ends With You all have incredibly different playstyles), and Zeschuk's statement just seems to make a little less impact.
I'll quote you since you said what I was trying to say much better than I did.
 

Doug

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Sparrow said:
BioWare: Truth in darkness.

I love these guys. Their games, their concepts, their ideas. They're pretty much bang on with this too.
Brnin8 said:
My thoughts exactly...
Third'd - I have to say, a JRPG doesn't seem to want to be a game, it wants to be an overly long movie. I'm not sure why, but alot of Japanese developers seem to think that way. And I'm sure I read on here, so do Japanese gamers, who even have a different word for non-Japanese games.

Flamezdudes said:
While i adore Bioware and could say that i am a fanboy of them, it seems wrong of them to say this.

Mass Effect - Dark beings never seen before come about to destroy all organic life in the galaxy and only 1 man can stop them. (Spectre's as a special class)

Dragon Age - Dark beings from underneath the earth come to destroy the world. Only one type of hero can stop them, Grey Wardens.

Don't get me wrong, i love both games and Bioware so MUCH and can't wait for Mass Effect 2 but they seem a little like hypocrites.
I would point out that the Geth/{Other bad guys I don't want to spoil} behave very differently to the Darkspawn of Dragon Age. Though I do know what you mean, the Bioware games do seem to have a similar 'framework' if you will for the gameplay. But at least that framework includes choices about where you want to take your {insert main character here} throughout their world/story.

Oh, and all the JRPGs I've seen/tried seem to have an almost pedophilic interest in having party characters under the age of consent... I mean, is it just because Japan seems to have that as a cultural thing or what?
 

slopeslider

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I guess he has a problem with Coca-Cola as well. Same stagnating, unchanging formula. People who love it for that very -reason be DAMNED.-
I like jrpg's for those very reasons. Just like we go to see action movies or thrillers and they all follow the same formula. They can be awesome and original, but they boil down to hero overcomes impossible odds to win in the final fight scene, or hyper-sensitive detective overcomes all odds and finds the killer thru a series of luck and unrealistic proficiency.
I like jrpg's and wrpg's, but saying the jrpg's are stagnating is like saying choice based conversation systems are cliched, or leveling up thru xp is SO 20 years ago.
 

theultimateend

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slopeslider said:
I guess he has a problem with Coca-Cola as well. Same stagnating, unchanging formula. People who love it for that very -reason be DAMNED.-
I like jrpg's for those very reasons. Just like we go to see action movies or thrillers and they all follow the same formula. They can be awesome and original, but they boil down to hero overcomes impossible odds to win in the final fight scene, or hyper-sensitive detective overcomes all odds and finds the killer thru a series of luck and unrealistic proficiency.
I like jrpg's and wrpg's, but saying the jrpg's are stagnating is like saying choice based conversation systems are cliched, or leveling up thru xp is SO 20 years ago.
That soda reference was really good. You think that up on the fly or has that been on your belt for a while? (Not Sarcasm)
 

ZippyDSMlee

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Bioware=Square, whats the difference?

Dailog trees and mechanic aesthetics is about it, so this is clearly the pot calling the cettle black........ there is alot of room for improvement in both Jrpgs rely on grinding and oft times bland equipment setups and sometimes poorly contrived skill systems(*cough*FF12*cough*) while US rpgs are either generic in the all the characters can become the same kind of way or you have strict ridged requirements which make no sense half the time...this is also an issues with some modern RPGs......


I look at Dragon age and I look at the dailog trees and I think hey these don't cut off mid sentance strangely like in ME but whats this why do they end so soon and you can not get all the dailog trees out of a person....ok this is wrong my PC is skilled in conversation I should have a inside look on the dialog tree see what is a good conversation marker what is a bad one and what the next line of in the dailog tree from the slected one I am thinking on asking will be, if you are going to make conversations end with no chance to restart it skilled speakers need these options it beats using quick save/load a million times, another way to do it is use TES/morrowinds personal annoyed meter the more bad hits in a conversation you do the more they want to end the conversation between using color worlds and a lil meter you can guide a convo and get the most out of it, also having a cionvo score of 10-100% is a good way to help people figure out if they are even clsoe to doing convo right....I mean if you are going to have a deep convo system you might as well go all out or lose the dailog tree altogether...

Also I so want someway to change how it handles money(I thought BG was bad,well it is...ammo+daily magic=annoying as frick!) because without a banter skill it rapes your ass on selling items you are lucky to get 1/4 the sell price back when you sell crap in, also backpacks should be 50 a shout and not 10... I really want a traditional over world kinda like Fo3 you have the quick travel system if you want it. Also they ignored what moving can do to combat a mechanic to keep combat orderly would be nice, IE party run makes it so everyone can run from a battle zone at a high rate of speed but this tries them out if use poorly, over wise you need high dexterity to run during combat. Also revive is handled horrably, you should have normal reivie items that will get people up and ready to fight at 25,50 and 100% HP/Mana/stanima with a cool down of 50 for all revive items on that charatcer who used it so it can't be abused....also would not mind with the RT combat in miod that magic went to lower cool down speed so you can use magic more quickly if you have the mana for it, dex can go to mele/range speed after a certain point.. bioware has not quite got the whole RT combat thing down perfectly its still a world away from FF12 or Sedukei with is half assed in comparasion setup, but Sedukei did do something neat I really want to see something like DA mixed with fable it was promised in The witcher a proper action based RPG but it was nothing more than an above average daiblo clone with a unintuitive menu system, fable is down right fun its not prefect but that mixed with a full blood RPG setup would really be great.

But anyway back to the main rant Jrpgs generally have single pathed story progression biowares have multi but when you boil it down you still are doing the same basic things, dailog trees are nice but still imperfect enough to be wanted in everything....
 

JaredXE

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As others have commented before me.....doesn't Bioware do THE SAME GAME OVER AND OVER?

Same cliche party members, same cliche railroad for your character to follow(will you get the choice between 3 planets, 5 planets, or 4 cities this game? Oooh, the suspense is killing me!)

Any Bioware executive calling out other gamemakers for being repetative and unevolving should be beaten with a Moogle for being the most retarded person on the planet.


And I LIKE Bioware games.
 

Doug

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slopeslider said:
I like jrpg's and wrpg's, but saying the jrpg's are stagnating is like saying choice based conversation systems are cliched, or leveling up thru xp is SO 20 years ago.
Well, true, they are - the problem is finding something better to replace them with that keeps all the good whilst losing the bad. The conversation tree system could be better, but I'm at a loss to work out how - short of having a sentient or semi-sentient AI doing the script writing as you go, heh.
 

Danpascooch

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Apr 16, 2009
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With the stuff Bioware has put out, they have the right to say this.

They have to be careful though, another slip up or two, and they won't anymore.
 

Nurb

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There has been some evolution, for instance, the characters have evolved so you dan't tell the difference between male and female XD

 

The DSM

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Mostly true, some have good fresh concepts, but most of the biggies mainly Square wont move on.
 

JoonaspEST

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Judge me stupid for this but my first ever experience with Japanese style cartooning(which elements also go over to the games) was Digimon and Yu-gi-oh. Basicly these show ran on one of our commercial channels every morning as part of the children programm. So i watched it and even enjoyed it until i faced a characteristic of the style. Overuse of dialouge. Basicly with every 2 sec a random guy says a random stuff inbetween the battle's. I started to hate those because i wanted some action also but when it came it was just broken by some boy saying his encourageing words all over again. Feel's the whole show is a shouting arena with little action.

Another irritateing thing I hate with JRPG's is the flashy graphics. I mean after every combe,crit etc is a flashy whole screen everlaping sign saying like: CRITICAL!!.
 

Doug

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danpascooch said:
With the stuff Bioware has put out, they have the right to say this.

They have to be careful though, another slip up or two, and they won't anymore.
Slip up? Where?
 

Danpascooch

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Doug said:
danpascooch said:
With the stuff Bioware has put out, they have the right to say this.

They have to be careful though, another slip up or two, and they won't anymore.
Slip up? Where?
Nothing major, it's just that Dragon Age DLC seemed like robbery, and selling out to EA was not a good idea. (ok, the second one is kinda major)
 

Doug

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danpascooch said:
Doug said:
danpascooch said:
With the stuff Bioware has put out, they have the right to say this.

They have to be careful though, another slip up or two, and they won't anymore.
Slip up? Where?
Nothing major, it's just that Dragon Age DLC seemed like robbery, and selling out to EA was not a good idea. (ok, the second one is kinda major)
Ah, right, ok, yeah, fair enough - although the free DLC was more an kinder way of trying to reduce piracy/reselling, I think, I have to say 'fair enough' - but remember, it could have been worse! They could have been bought out by Activison!
 

Yog Sothoth

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JRPG status:

[..] not told
[X] told

I freaking love Bioware... On a side note, it will be interesting to see if FF XIII can prove them wrong...

theultimateend said:
...

I know it is my own personal opinion just as he has his, but I'm hard pressed to see the unique quality of western RPGs. I've played a ton and most of them lose my interest about the time I become ultra human, which isn't that far in. "I am now sporting two lightsabers and the ability to crush stars with my taint...fear me."
JRPGs don't offer much in the way of open-ended story lines or sandbox game play. Most RPG gamers seem to concede at least that point in my experience...