BioWare Co-Founder Accuses JRPGs of Stagnation

[Mordwyl]

This from the same BioWare that has essentially been making the same game since the days of Neverwinter? Pot = kettle \ black.

What he said, word by word.

Evolution? BioWare please, you're doing the exact same thing. If the JRPGs are too linear the WRPGs still glue themselves to Dungeons and Dragons mechanics, a system designed well over 30 years ago for pen-and-paper RPGs. Point fingers again when you ditch the level advancement, dice-roll combat and heavy emphasis on statistics.

 

[TheRightToArmBears]

Three words to Greg Zeschuk:

No shit, Sherlock.

 

[Arsen]

The problem is the lack of good fantasy atmosphere, characters, etc. Square for instance cared more about rushing a product with better graphics, it became more about marketing than the artistry of the name.

 

[Grayjack]

I think he should start playing Megami Tensei games. Otherwise, he is correct.

 

[Blanks]

I'm going to go ahead and accused Bioware for making RPGs suck ... i didn't like any of bioware's games ... my opinion >.>

but yeah saying they haven't evolved is an overstatement from from my stand point they've all be fun and interesting

 

[toapat]

says the company that also makes linear games.

RPG makers cant bash other RPG makers because they all make very linear story. except for Blizzard, who made WoW, a game with so far 2 linear stories told with virtually no linearity to them.

 

[Doug]

I have to say, Bioware isn't the only one saying that -
http://www.giantbomb.com/profile/red/how-to-fix-jrpgs/30-18940/

 

[flaming_squirrel]

I'm going to go ahead and accused Bioware for making RPGs suck ...it's my opinion >.>

Without any reasoning to back it up? 'Ok'. Then I shall accuse Square enix for making the same game every year for the last decade.

RPG makers cant bash other RPG makers because they all make very linear story. except for Blizzard, who made WoW, a game with so far 2 linear stories told with virtually no linearity to them.

Come again?

 

[ShadowsofHope]

At least in RPG's, I can tell the males from the females. I've liked some JRPG's, but some of the casts at times I feel like I'm roaming around with characters that whine like 2 years olds (the character is supposedly like.. 20) when they dont get what they want, or emotions are somewhat overtly characterized in the concept.

Yes, some RPG's follow the same boring thing as well. Both are losing their touches on originality and innovation slowly due to the stagnation of the popular public they are selling their games to, just some more than others on either side.

 

[slopeslider]

I guess he has a problem with Coca-Cola as well. Same stagnating, unchanging formula. People who love it for that very -reason be DAMNED.-
I like jrpg's for those very reasons. Just like we go to see action movies or thrillers and they all follow the same formula. They can be awesome and original, but they boil down to hero overcomes impossible odds to win in the final fight scene, or hyper-sensitive detective overcomes all odds and finds the killer thru a series of luck and -unrealistic proficiency.
I like jrpg's and wrpg's, but saying the jrpg's are stagnating is like saying choice based conversation systems are cliched, or leveling up thru xp is SO 20 years ago.

That soda reference was really good. You think that up on the fly or has that been on your belt for a while? (Not Sarcasm)

Yeah I just thought of that out of nowhere. And I dont even LIKE coke, but pepsi doesn't have the same following so although it is awesome, it would weaken my point. Thanks for the not sarcasm tag. I would've been wondering why you were offended and sarcastic if you didnt put that there. /honesty

 

[TotallyFake]

This from the same BioWare that has essentially been making the same game since the days of Neverwinter? Pot = kettle \ black.

What he said, word by word.

Evolution? BioWare please, you're doing the exact same thing. If the JRPGs are too linear the WRPGs still glue themselves to Dungeons and Dragons mechanics, a system designed well over 30 years ago for pen-and-paper RPGs. Point fingers again when you ditch the level advancement, dice-roll combat and heavy emphasis on statistics.

Glue themselves to DnD mechanics? They haven't made a D20 game since 2003. Yes, the leveling system clearly has been influenced by DnD, but thats because DnD pretty much defined the RPG. Square games seem vastly different from DnD, and The Elder Scrolls is the only western RPG that springs to mind that also doesn't, but they both still have level advancement, dice-roll combat and heavy emphasis on statistics.

There's a difference between "archetypal" and "cliched". This difference is almost entirely subjective. He's claiming that JRPGs are become tired and worn-out, and that they need to mix things up a bit. Some of them have. Likewise, WRPGs are getting tired and need a shake up. BioWare seem pretty good at gentle shakes, but nothing really massive.

 

[Nigh Invulnerable]

BioWare Co-Founder Accuses JRPGs of Stagnation

Greg Zeschuk, co-founder of RPG luminaries BioWare has accused Japanese RPGs of failing to evolve.

"The fall of the JRPG in large part is due to a lack of evolution, a lack of progression. They kept delivering the same thing over and over. They make the dressing better, they look prettier, but it's still the same experience."

~snip~

Permalink

Said the pot to the kettle...

Seriously though, Dragon Age is a good game, but it's basically a cookie-cutter WRPG with nothing really new, at least in my experience with it thus far. Bioware has done some great RPGs themselves, but I'd hardly say they've done anything revolutionary beyond just making games well.

 

[MattAn24]

Bioware, I love you guys, but this is where I disagree with you. Look at the newer JRPGs coming out. Tell me they aren't different, or have changed. Look at FFXIII, that's very different from most RPGs today.

This. A thousand times this.

I'm getting rather sick and tired of The Escapist just bashing Final Fantasy XIII, the Final Fantasy series AND SquareEnix. Yes, JRPG's are known for their similar story-archs, but hell, go with what works, right?

JRPG'S ARE evolving, I don't care what anyone says otherwise. FFXIII is a prime example (so I neglect to see why you used an image of Lightning as an example)..

Again, I'm no SquareEnix fanboy, but for Christ's sake, back off, quit complaining and stop being so damn bitter about OMGWESTERNRPGSAREAWESOME. I'll have to admit, I really don't like those sort of RPG's much. I just couldn't stand Fallout 3's drawn-out lack of storyline, for example.

Final Fantasy HAS mostly had a fantastic plotline, epic storytelling and great cinematics. Say what you like about SquareEnix or whatever, but they damn well know how to put across a good narrative and keep you immersed in the game world. Yes, a lot of the time it's a rather straight-forward save-the-world plot, but there's the narrative! Sure, you can do whatever the hell you want anywhere you like and it's fine. That's one thing that Final Fantasy XIV will hopefully be fixing from Final Fantasy XI's downfall. FFXI had no real adventurous nature. In an adventure game. It turned into a "Search the Wiki to get the easiest strategy and just keep doing that!" FFXIV has the chance of being completely random in choosing your strategies carefully..

 

[Illogicalmind]

I think he's really only addressing how in a JRPG, the story is, usually, set in stone. Granted, some people absolutely love this. Others like the concept of choice. "Do I want to save that entire village, or leave it to rot and burn? Do I want to save the world, or conquer it? Do I even want to do that? Can I just go off and explore, making my own way in the world without moral obligations?"

That seems to be a hallmark of WRPGs. Choice, and the perception of being able to alter the story. JRPGs are about telling a classic and epic tale with little to no interaction on a personal basis. You're going along for the ride. Both work, I feel.

 

[Tarkand]

He's mainly accusing JRPGs of not giving choice or options.

In most JRPGs, you just follow the story being told and while you do get to play around and kill stuff, your action have very little consequence on the story - even when you save the day. You didn't save the day because of your clever plan, you did it because well, that's what is supposed to happen.

In most WRPG, your choice can change the world somewhat.

In the pen and paper rpg world, we call what JRPG do 'railroading' and it is usually looked down upon as a sign of a bad DM. There's a certain amount of rail roading in WRPG (and even with good DM in pen and paper game), it can't be avoided altogether, but JRPGs would by far be considered very crappy DM and be told that if they just want to tell a story rather than play a game, to just write a book.

 

[Pendragon9]

He does have a bit of truth in his worlds, though considering they helped make a Sonic RPG, I'm taking it with a grain of salt.

 

[Doug]

RPG makers cant bash other RPG makers because they all make very linear story. except for Blizzard, who made WoW, a game with so far 2 linear stories told with virtually no linearity to them.

Come again?

I did think that myself. I don't think he's even played a Bioware game... or an RPG from the west in the last 5 years (hint - Fallout 3)

 

[Illogicalmind]

He's mainly accusing JRPGs of not giving choice or options.

In most JRPGs, you just follow the story being told and while you do get to play around and kill stuff, your action have very little consequence on the story - even when you save the day. You didn't save the day because of your clever plan, you did it because well, that's what is supposed to happen.

In most WRPG, your choice can change the world somewhat.

Glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks that. Anyway, is he wrong in his observation? Possibly. But he's just offering his opinion from his own experience. JRPGs have indeed lost a lot of steam in the West. But, to each his own. No matter what someone says, there are going to be JRPG lovers everywhere.

 

[SageRuffin]

I always ask people who bash JRPGs to provide recent examples of ones they've played which they didn't enjoy, and of course they can never do it because they don't actually play any. They only do it because it's the done thing nowadays and because they lack the emotional maturity to form and discuss their own opinions. So, any takers?

I give them a chance. Something somewhere turns me away from them though...

Tales of Vesperia: I'll admit, Yuri's an ass and he's hilarious, especially when it comes to his win poses and Estelle is in the party. But other than that, I found the game quite underwhelming; I couldn't get into the combat system, even when I did get far enough to unlock everything that was possible, and I don't understand how my online friends love it so much.

Eternal Sonata: I played the demo and loved it. I liked how the combat system played out (namely the light vs dark and "beat" mechanics, other than that it was quite system) and the characters were more or less likable. I got the full game, but it didn't intrigue as much as the demo did for whatever reason.

Rogue Galaxy: An action RPG where you control the characters every move almost always gets brownie points from me, but even in this game I found the fights tedious and boring. Not to mention that fighting itself actually became a bit of a chore, especially with the random encounters.

Final Fantasy Tactics Advance: Don't get me started on this one...

All right... my illness is kicking back up, so I'm gonna go skulk to my bed and build up my character in ME some more.