BioWare Co-Founder Accuses JRPGs of Stagnation

[Logan Westbrook]

BioWare Co-Founder Accuses JRPGs of Stagnation

Greg Zeschuk, co-founder of RPG luminaries BioWare has accused Japanese RPGs of failing to evolve.

"The fall of the JRPG in large part is due to a lack of evolution, a lack of progression. They kept delivering the same thing over and over. They make the dressing better, they look prettier, but it's still the same experience."

That's the opinion of BioWare co-founder Greg Zeschuk, weighing in on the decline of Japanese Role-Playing Games in the west, and while he admits that there are some exceptions - Demon Souls is apparently one of his favorite games - he firmly believes that JRPGs have fallen behind their western equivalents.

"My favorite thing, it's funny when you still see it, but the joke of some of the dialogue systems where it asks, 'do you wanna do this or this,' and you say no. 'Do you wanna do this or this?' No. 'Do you wanna do this or this?' No. Lemme think -- you want me to say 'yes.' And that, unfortunately, really characterized the JRPG."

That JRPGs are overly linear and have certain tropes is hardly a new opinion, what's really interesting is who's saying it. While BioWare games could never be described as linear, they certainly have some touchstones [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/experienced-points/6862-Experienced-Points-The-Writers-of-BioWare] they go to time and time again. This in turn begs the question of whether it is actually fresh ideas that the western audience wants, or whether it just wants choices to make.

Source: Destructoid [http://www.destructoid.com/bioware-co-founder-jrpgs-suffer-from-lack-of-evolution--155782.phtml]




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[Sparrow]

BioWare: Truth in darkness.

I love these guys. Their games, their concepts, their ideas. They're pretty much bang on with this too.

 

[Brnin8]

BioWare: Truth in darkness.

I love these guys. Their games, their concepts, their ideas. They're pretty much bang on with this too.

My thoughts exactly...

 

[Onyx Oblivion]

Well, there is still some light in the JRPG darkness. I recall the golden age of JRPGs...the PS1/SNES days.

Take Lost Odyssey, for an example of a recent light.

EDIT: inb4 JRPG bashing

 

[cainx10a]

As a BioWare fanboy, all I can do is stand behind the opinion of Mr. Zeschuk, but have to admit while JRPGs don't evolve in those departments, some of their meta games can be pretty addictive.

 

[Logic 0]

Finally someone says something about the "but thou must" senario.

 

[Kollega]

I doubt there's any valid counterpoints to that one. Reusing certain tropes is one thing, recycling same formula over and over is another (and much worse) thing.

 

[Mrsoupcup]

BioWare: Truth in darkness.

I love these guys. Their games, their concepts, their ideas. They're pretty much bang on with this too.

Bioware just told those guys off real bad. I think that guy has a point, but still Dragon age while good was a little cookie cutter in terms of RPGs.

 

[LeonLethality]

Finally someone says something about the "but thou must" senario.

I just lost a load of respect for you... I love the thought that if someone says to go somewhere YOU MUST GO THERE! and if someone says don't go somewhere YOU MUST GO THERE... maybe I am oldschool like that

I find they do mix things up in jrpgs but I like the same formula thats what makes them enjoyable but people will never be happy change the game and people will complain for it being different leave it the same and people will complain its not different enough

all in all I like the jrpg formula as long as they have different stories to tell and fun combat they will never get old to me

 

[Cherry Cola]

Valkyria Chronicles was pretty inventive.

Still, JRPG's could use more evolution.

 

[quellan_thyde]

This from the same BioWare that has essentially been making the same game since the days of Neverwinter? Pot = kettle \ black.

 

[OmegaXIII]

I love the Final Fantasy series but this is very true, there needs to be more variety in options available in JRPG story progression

 

[fenrizz]

I for one like the stagnation of the JRPG genre to a certain degree.
Some innovation is to be preferred of course. But I really like the genre (FF is still my favorite), and I'd hate to see a move towards western RPG's open world concept.

I like the stories, and I like the concept of which most of them are based.
That they are mostly very linear is a strength in my opinion because sometimes i get really, really tired of just wandering about in a huge open world.

I like JPRG's because I know excatly what kind of game I'm gonna get each time.
That is why In love the FF series so much. It's the same basic game each time, only with a new story, new cast and new things to collect.

JRPG's (and specially the FF series) will never die.
They have a niche, and I think they'll keep it.

 

[MetaKnight19]

As long as the target audience of the JRPG is happy with the formula, why change it?

 

[Jaebird]

You can complain all you want about how persistent JRPG is with making a choice, or mentioning their linearity, but at least I'm not being bombarded with text options that take more than 10 minutes to get thru for one trivial conversation.

I'm sorry, but when I think of RPGs in general, the leveling and stats are the only things that come to mind. And with story coming runner-up, the fleshing out of your own character's personality falls flat because half the time it doesn't matter what your opinion is in the game.

 

[Hurr Durr Derp]

Bioware isn't exactle the most inventive RPG-maker itself...

While I don't like most JRPGs, and there are certain aspects of JRPGs that I believe should have been left behind a long time ago, I strongly disagree that a lack of progression is the genre's main offense. Sure, there are many classic elements that almost every JRPG clings to, but the same goes for WRPGs and in fact every other genre. It's what makes the genres recognisable.

And as much as everyone claims to love innovation, the truely innovative and potentially genre-changing titles are most often all but ignored by the public.

 

[Heart of Darkness]

I really think he's just trying to say he wants to see more in games, but I really don't want to see JRPGs turn into WRPGs. I mean, a linear storyline isn't bad at all, and the "But Thou Must" story works well when implemented well or entirely subverted. I mean, Final Fantasy IV was a "But Thou Must" story in the second half, but it had a really good story of personal redemption at first. And then we have Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Survivor, which is both very linear but also has multiple endings, and it's an amazing game. And don't get me started on Golden Sun, EarthBound, or Mother 3, either.

I really think his definition of what characterized the JRPG really is just an application of Sturgeon's Law to the many people trying to emulate the success of Final Fantasy.

 

[annoyinglizardvoice]

He's certainly on to something, jrpgs used to be my favourite genre, but they just seem to same-y and use the old tropes and cliches a little to much.

 

[antipunt]

This reminds me of an article I once read. Basically, the advantage of having the Jrpg formula is that you can focus on fleshing out the story/characters. I love Bioware games, but there's always a cost to having a non-linear game (though, of course, the obvious benefits as well)