BioWare Defends Mass Effect 3 Launch-Day DLC

[SovietSecrets]

1300 posts Jesus H christ. People, you do realize that after I post this we only need around 40 more posts to get this thread on the hottest thread of the year list and then it will NEVER die...I probably didn't help just now. Uh...if you hate the DLC so much then just don't buy it, it has around just as much importance as Lair of the Shadow broker, and why does it being developed alongside the game make it bad?

Released 2 months after full game = acceptable

Released at launch = unforgivable

I don't follow.

I do like the cut of your jib.

Also people are just dumb really. They feel because its a day one DLC they are being forced to pay more for the game already and that's just unacceptable. The entire thing about content being cut away from the game is just bunk.

 

[anthony87]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ri0vrJ-y2zM

This guy can explain this much better than anyone here. I agree with him entirely, simply because he's 100% right. I would've been fine with this as long as the DLC was entirely aesthetic, but it's not, and the game hasn't even been released yet, also, the price of the DLC is 1/5, maybe less of the full game, so it should contain that much imo.

The thing is that TotalBiscut's video has been torn to shreds time and time again.

He is wrong, almost 100% so.

I find it ironic that the people who are okay with buying the DLC are "sheeple" or whatever according to Zeel. But then a few of the people who are against the DLC have basically been saying:

"But....butbutbut....TOTALBISCUIT SAID!!!"

And apparently they're free thinkers with their own ideas and whatnot.

 

[SajuukKhar]

Irony, such a wonderful thing to behold.

A sight more beautiful, there is not.

 

[SajuukKhar]

There's....nothing wrong with this. Hell, there's nothing fundamentally wrong with Day One DLC, honestly.

Why? Let's explain with a simple shift in paradigm:

If the DLC for this character had come out three months after the game's release, would this still be a problem for you? If not, then you're whining about absolutely nothing. Bioware could easily have developed it during the testing and marketing phase, and then chosen to delay the release of that DLC for a few months (had the leak not occurred)....and if they had, you wouldn't be bellyaching about it right now. You'd think nothing of it, hell, you wouldn't have even known it happened. That's what's fundamentally wrong with people claiming that Day One DLC is "teh evulz": it revolves around a preconception that gamers are entitled to have access to everything on the day of release, right then and there, regardless of how much you pay. But you're not. You're entitled to whatever the company decides is the "fair" amount. Whatever they decide is part of the "full game experience". You don't get to make that decision, they do because it's their product.

Don't like it? Don't buy it. Mind, I'm not saying it's good business practice. I agree that it's better when a dev team provides as much content to the gamer as possible, but you're not entitled to every single thing they choose to make with their development time. You're entitled to what they decide to put in the box and sell to you. You can't go to a restaurant and demand extra food served with your meal for free, they are going to charge you for any extras you get added to the order. And they could easily withhold items from you without your knowledge and sell you a lesser product, but that doesn't matter because it's their product and they decide what to sell you. You can't get pissy when you keep buying a product KNOWING that it doesn't contain what you want. Either vote with your wallet (by not buying it at all), or shut up.

 

[Epic Fail 1977]

Wow, almost 40 pages for a DLC that looks totally crap? I'm just relieved that Prothy is optional and not part of the "real" game.

 

[Elyxard]

My biggest problem with this is.. the construction of this kind of DLC in the first place is damaging to the franchise as a whole.

Zaeed and Kasumi.. would you really consider them a part of the canon of Mass Effect? They have no connection to anyone else but themselves and are not integrated into the plot as a whole. As a matter of fact, that's probably why ME2 was just a character recruitment simulator, because the game was designed around independent characters that could be dropped out of the plot at will.

This is in stark contrast to ME1, where every crew member was important or became important in the grand scheme of things. You don't have any "Ashley and Kaiden" moments, you don't have the Wrex standoff at the factory, you don't have the Liara parts where she helped explain your prothean connection, you don't have Tali moments where she carried vital information about corrupt affairs of the villains, you don't have any moments like that in ME2.

That's because ME2 was designed around greed. The entire cast of that game was created around non-interdependent parts so that they could shove DLC in more smoothly. That's why the game has so little of a main plot to it. EA has messed with the story of Mass Effect so that they could make more money and Bioware was forced to develop around this. They did a good job, but it's still sad that they had to work like that and it makes you wonder what could have been. You begin to realize why their top developers and writers keep leaving.

The argument that they would just fire those extra developers without the DLC involved is just ridiculous. That's where expansion packs, much more substantial side stuff come in to play. Bethesda has already gone back on board with this. Or heck, they could always be put on the next game in the franchise or the next franchise entirely. This is EA, they always have another project in line. Heck, working on simple cosmetic stuff is perfectly fine fine with me, but not an entire separate character. That crosses the line.

Don't get me wrong, ME2 is still a great game, but this DLC business is crapping all over us and I don't know how anyone can defend it. EA don't exactly have a good track record with this either, in-fact, I would describe them as despicable human beings who destroy franchises to make a quick buck. No one should trust EA, they have never earned it.

 

[SajuukKhar]

would you considering a Prothean grunt who has no real knowalge of everything part of Mass Effects canon?

Also do you remember the days of expansions?
The days of having to wait for a year or more to get new content?
The days when said content was only about 2 of New Vegas' DLC worth of content?
The days where you had to pay 30-40 dollars what you can get from two 10 dollars DLC today?
The days where after you beat said content you had to wait another year or more to get new content?

those days SUCKED.

I don't know about you but I personally don't want to go back to that.

 

[The Lunatic]

would you considering a Prothean grunt who has no real knowalge of everything part of Mass Effects canon?

Also do you remember the days of expansions?
The days of having to wait for a year or more to get new content?
The days when said content was only about 2 of New Vegas' DLC worth of content?
The days where you had to pay 30-40 dollars what you can get from two 10 dollars DLC today?
The days where after you beat said content you had to wait another year or more to get new content?

those days SUCKED.

I don't know about you but I personally don't want to go back to that.

Because paying $10 for a squad member is such a better system.

Say what you like about Expansion packs, but, at least they weren't crap like Weapon skins and Horse armour.

The decently done packs were basically small sequels to the game.

DLC these days are awfully overpriced and provides very little content for what it is.

I can think of only a few examples of decent DLC, the vast majority seems to be minimal work for maximum profit.

 

[SajuukKhar]

I didn't say DLC as is, is perfect.

However the way Bethesda/Obsidian handled the Fallout 3 and New Vegas DLC shows a marked improvement over the expansion system

More Content
Faster
At a less cost in the end.

Two of New Vegas's or Fallout 3's dlc cost 20 bucks and had more content then the 30 dollar Shivering Isles did.

 

[The Lunatic]

This DLC is a small expansion pack, as was most of the major DLC for ME2.

These are examples of "Decent" DLC, Stuff like Borderland's packs (Aside form Mad Moxxi) were very good packs that added a hell of a lot of content, for the same price as this squad member.

I didn't say DLC as is, is perfect.

However the way Bethesda/Obsidian handled the Fallout 3 and New Vegas DLC shows a marked improvement over the expansion system

More Content
Faster
At a less cost in the end.

Two of New Vegas's or Fallout 3's dlc cost 20 bucks and had more content then shivering isles did.

I really don't think it does, and even then you're comparing a company that's likely one of the best DLC producers for their games.

Yes, Bethesda does it well.

But, name one other company that packs nearly as much content into their DLC packs.

Again to come back to Borderlands,

Armoury of General Knoxx features a new vehicle, new enemies, new bosses, new environments, weapons, gear, basically everything that was in the game was increased, new missions which had to be voice acted, new models which had to be created, so on and so forth.

We're talking hours of additional content here.

Cost, $10.

Now compare this.

A new squad member, using an existing model in the game, likely reusing attacks already featured in the game by other characters.

Might be a few added lines of dialogue here and there too.

An extra mission, as to what that will involve is yet to be seen, but, if we base it off the previous games, it's likely to be a 20 minute - 40 minute mission featuring a few bits of dialogue, one morality system option and then a conclusion that changes nothing in the main game.

Cost, $10.


Far from perfect is an understatement.

With Expansions, at the very least you knew for sure there is a sizeable chunk of content there, their content was often heavily publicized as they were basically seen as a second release for a game.

With DLC, you basically have to take it at face value, for the most part, they're overpriced and add very little to the game.

 

[Erttheking]

If you think that it's overpriced and doesn't add to the game then don't buy it, I don't see the problem.

 

[SajuukKhar]

I found just about all of Mass Effect 1, Mass Effect 2's, Dragon Age Origins DLC to be worth the cost.


Also slapping the word "expansion" on it doesn't mean you can know anything about its content level.

Morrowind's Bloodmoon expansion is a perfect example, it lacked anywhere near the content of Tribunal yet was the same price.

Expansion are no less of a face value call as DLC.

Also Mass Effect 2's companion missions do change thing in the game, specifically in Mass Effect 3.

 

[Syphith]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ri0vrJ-y2zM

This guy can explain this much better than anyone here. I agree with him entirely, simply because he's 100% right. I would've been fine with this as long as the DLC was entirely aesthetic, but it's not, and the game hasn't even been released yet, also, the price of the DLC is 1/5, maybe less of the full game, so it should contain that much imo.

The thing is that TotalBiscut's video has been torn to shreds time and time again.

He is wrong, almost 100% so.

Most of what he said is opinion so it can't exactly be "wrong." As I said before, I'm not really a fan of his, as I've only seen a few videos, but I definitely agree with him on his point about what pre-order DLC should be. If you don't, that's fine, that's what makes it an opinion.

He is right about Zaeed and Shale as far as I'm concerned, especially if as you and others have argued, all the DLC is, is the ability to use the Prothean as a party member. Then it's near identical to what we received with those characters for free. While there are somethings that can definitely be argued against in his statement, there's no way it can be "100% wrong" and none of the points that debunk his can be confirmed until we all play the game.

would you considering a Prothean grunt who has no real knowalge of everything part of Mass Effects canon?

Also do you remember the days of expansions?
The days of having to wait for a year or more to get new content?
The days when said content was only about 2 of New Vegas' DLC worth of content?
The days where you had to pay 30-40 dollars what you can get from two 10 dollars DLC today?
The days where after you beat said content you had to wait another year or more to get new content?

those days SUCKED.

I don't know about you but I personally don't want to go back to that.

I wouldn't quote twice if I could avoid it, but I had to address these statements. I bought countless expansions during the 90's and early 2000's and nothing from today's content packs, even two of them, adds up to a single expansion in those days as far as I'm concerned. Especially if you look at the worst of what we get today.

Much of what Bioware releases as DLC today can be as short as an hour or two, so even if you put together two of those on the best day, I can't think of a single RPG expansion pack that was only three or four hours long. Also while New Vegas' content definitely is better than Bioware's DLC track record, only a couple of those would add up to what an expansion pack would be, certainly not all of them, as I'd say out of the set, about half of them were definitely quite short.

The days you say sucked, I loved, as real Expansion Packs allowed for considerable story expansion, instead of the short, near meaningless side-stories we get today. I will say there are a few stand out DLC in recent years, but the majority, do not compare at all to what we used to get in expansions in terms of content or story.

I don't really mean offense and I'm sorry but this-
"The days where you had to pay 30-40 dollars what you can get from two 10 dollars DLC today?"
-Is a ridiculous statement. As there might only be one or two cases where this even comes close to being true.

EDIT:
Just read your most recent post and you apparently believe that all of Bioware's recent DLC content is worth it's price. Which means we could not be further apart on the issue, which is fine. You can buy your DLC, I'll use that same cash on amazing Arcade games which are at the bare minimum twice as long and on buying other great full games to help support Developers that aren't guaranteed to be rolling in dough as soon as their game is released, no matter the level of pollish. Too many great games get ignored in favor of buying every short DLC that comes out. If you can afford to purchase both, my hat's off to you, but I know many people that can't and choose to only buy Bioware DLC, no matter how negligible it is. If they'd listen and give something else a chance, they'd know how bad of a decision they're making, how many amazing games they're missing out on.

 

[The Lunatic]

If you think that it's overpriced and doesn't add to the game then don't buy it, I don't see the problem.

It's extremely rare I do.

But, I am disappointed, when rather than the developers of a game I like, work on weapon skins, small new missions and other such stuff, rather than pooling that time into making a chunk of content and releasing it as an expansion, simply because things like weapon skins and map packs sell better.

I suppose these days, chunks of new content is something developers consider solely to be sequel territory. Even then, that often falls flat.

I found just about all of Mass Effect 1, Mass Effect 2's, Dragon Age Origins DLC to be worth the cost.


Also slapping the word "expansion" on it doesn't mean you can know anything about its content level.

Morrowind's Bloodmoon expansion is a perfect example, it lacked anywhere near the content of Tribunal yet was the same price.

Expansion are no less of a face value call as DLC.

Also Mass Effect 2's companion missions do change thing in the game, specifically in Mass Effect 3.

I'd disagree with you, I didn't personally regard many of them as being worth much amount of money, and I don't recall buying any of them.

An expansion is an extra physical release of the game, rather than "Downloadable content" which is, as the name implies, downloadable.

When you release an expansion, it's often critically appraised, often times people review expansions, and the eye of judgement is placed upon it, as they tend to be large releases of extra content, thus why the effort of releasing a new disc with all this content on has been made.

They tend to be advertised due to all this extra effort, and are generally touted as being a new release of the game.

Yes, there are bad expansion packs, there's no doubting this, but, generally speaking, the vast majority of expansion packs contain more content for a more reasonable price than the vast majority of DLC.