Bioware: FF13 is not an RPG
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..does it really matter? You either enjoy so-called JRPG's, or you don't. You either enjoy RPG's, or you don't. Both are good in their own ways and cater to different groups of people. Why the hell do people care what other people like to play? :| I'm sure there's a plethora of other things you can argue about, instead of this, which is going nowhere, and has been going nowhere for quite a while.
So because a choice you wanted to make wasn't programed you therefore consider it to not be a Role Playing Game at all? This has nothing to do with being a 'bioware fan' it just has to do with the fact that your claim makes no sense. (and the romance part is such an unimportant thing to nitpick) What about the fact that key choices in the game can actually change the shape of the story as a whole, unlike most JRPGs that force you to an unbreakable linear storyline.3nimac said:
Basically, the current use of 'RPG' 'Role Playing Game' is a bit of a misnomer. Sure, once can argue that the 'role play' part is the fact that you follow a story as though you are a member of a play, therefore taking on that role even if you have no real choices in the story. But it just doesn't really live up to the notion of what a 'Role Play' is, especially for people like me who have a history of D&D campaigns.
I think you are misunderstanding what Mr. Wednesday is saying, and in fact, after reading the last paragraph of your post, I can't help but think you're the real Bioware "fanboy".Mr Wednesday said:
First, SE is a much larger entity than Bioware. SE is a far larger company and has multiple projects in various platforms always in the works. The total international success they've received from the FF series cannot be compared to any Bioware product, ME or DA or otherwise at this time- perhaps they will catch up someday if they continue to produce quality products.
I wonder how many Japanese gamers are buying up Bioware products? Unless you are completely ignorant, you'd agree with me that Japanese gamers holds a sizable chunk of buying power and I tend to think that FF is faring much better than ME or DA.
With the risk of sounding like a fanboy myself, it sounds like Bioware feels threatened by SE and is openly showing aggression in this interview.
Most western games do badly in Japan, but I wonder how Mass Effect did, is there a place you can find out?Runding said:
Oh dear lord. I doubt Bioware give much of a shite about Japan, given as they tend to release products on the 360 and the PC, niether of which have a huge market share in that set of Islands.Runding said:
Nor do I think they're particularly worried about being "smaller entity" given their success, much like I imagine Valve doesn't stay awake at night crying about JRPG sales.
You all sound like defensive teenagers defending a slighted band. "He just said that 'cos he's jealous." Maybe he, y'know, actually thinks that?
Edit: One final point, in my last sentence I wasn't saying Bioware were good, I made no real comment on them, only that Final Fantasy is bad. Which, is of couse, just my subjective opinion.
There's a big difference between Role-Playing Games, and Roll-Playing Games. 95% of the games on the market that are called RPG's these days, are in fact Roll-Playing Games. The big difference is in the amount of control given to the player. Is your character just a prop that you can move around and control by making stronger to advance the story told by the game designer? Then you're in a Roll-Playing Game, because because your Role doesn't exist. It's the game developer's Role.
If your control over the character in the game world is complete and absolute, where the player gets to choose what they want to do at any given point and be allowed to do it, then you're now in a Role Playing Game.
Role Play, a common practice used by actors and marriage counselors, allow people to act out a different character as THEY perceive the character.
Bioware is largely guilty of the very crime they accuse SE of. Bioware is closer to being a true RPG because it does offer some choices, but those choices are still WAY too limiting in my opinion. As some have said before me, you get the good, bad, or neutral choices of how to accomplish a task. A true RPG would give you the option to skip it all together and go off and do something else, or tackle it in completely new and unique ways.
The biggest reason why there aren't many Role-Playing Games out there is due to programming constraints. It would be VERY difficult to make a decent looking game, that gives all the control to the players to follow any choice that they choose, and still have decent story lines for each of those paths the player may have chosen. Games from the Fallout series have probably come the closest, out of the more mainstream games on the market. Even then, you still can't choose to try and betray your dad and join up with the Enclave at any point. Hell, now that I think about it, The Sims even classify as a Role-Playing Game close to the same level as FO games.
Both versions of RPG's are fine in their own regards, however, as they both fit into different player's play styles. When I'm feeling creative and want to live my own adventure, I'll play a Role-Playing Game. If I want to veg out a bit, and just watch someone else's story unfold like a movie, then I'll play a Roll-Playing Game.
If your control over the character in the game world is complete and absolute, where the player gets to choose what they want to do at any given point and be allowed to do it, then you're now in a Role Playing Game.
Role Play, a common practice used by actors and marriage counselors, allow people to act out a different character as THEY perceive the character.
Bioware is largely guilty of the very crime they accuse SE of. Bioware is closer to being a true RPG because it does offer some choices, but those choices are still WAY too limiting in my opinion. As some have said before me, you get the good, bad, or neutral choices of how to accomplish a task. A true RPG would give you the option to skip it all together and go off and do something else, or tackle it in completely new and unique ways.
The biggest reason why there aren't many Role-Playing Games out there is due to programming constraints. It would be VERY difficult to make a decent looking game, that gives all the control to the players to follow any choice that they choose, and still have decent story lines for each of those paths the player may have chosen. Games from the Fallout series have probably come the closest, out of the more mainstream games on the market. Even then, you still can't choose to try and betray your dad and join up with the Enclave at any point. Hell, now that I think about it, The Sims even classify as a Role-Playing Game close to the same level as FO games.
Both versions of RPG's are fine in their own regards, however, as they both fit into different player's play styles. When I'm feeling creative and want to live my own adventure, I'll play a Role-Playing Game. If I want to veg out a bit, and just watch someone else's story unfold like a movie, then I'll play a Roll-Playing Game.
He didn't "bash" Square-Enix. He made a point. A fairly decent point.Runding said:
He works in the videogame industry. He made a point relevant to it. He gave his opinion. Suggesting its part of a calculated attack is generally the kind of argument leveraged by those who can't stand the fact their beloved game has been slighted.
He really should close his mouth. All videogames are by definition RPG's. Nowhere in the definition of role-play is there a requirement that you make any choice about the role that you assume as the player.(In the case of video games.) Besides that Bioware's games are not really all that great at the choice thing as it is.
I would have to agree with Mr.Bioware man. I think people get so hung up on the acronym RPG, they forget what it stands for: Role Playing Game. Before Video Games, Role Playing Games were table top games where you created your own unique character and went on an adventure, having complete control over the character's actions and morales. You can't really do that with JRPGs. You just cart the established character around from place to place. I think of final fantasy as more of a Fantasy based adventure game than an actual RPG. "JRPG"s are too linear to be considered Role Playing imo.
Pulp Fiction.Ian Caronia said:
Sin City (the movie at least).
Any book, film, or movie that has had asides and non-linear chronology.
And yes, I realise that in alot of cases, the backstory is being told to fill in the blanks after we've got to know how the characters are in the 'present'. Further more, these are games, not books or films. Linear stories are a limitation of the mediums. I'm pretty sure the good pen and paper DMs, whilst having a good idea of how they think the story will go, enforce the players to stick to their prescribed order.
heh, you're almost on the right track. Let's broaden the term RPG to encompass everything, then maybe we'll start using useful terms like RPS, TPL, ARPG, JRPG, instead.shadow skill said:
Labeling a game as RPG is like calling everything from oaks to roses "a plant", and driving to work in "a vehicle".
I just feel like chiming in.
After what, 15 pages, people still aren't quite agreeing what RPG actually means.
While I agree that role playing is the operative words in RPG (not character growth, nor item management, etc). However, every game do (or at least shoe-horn in) some kind of story to tell, and giving you a role to play in it. I think what sets RPGs apart is the fact that the intent to tell a story takes precedent over other things.
Sure, HALO has a story. But the story is a vehicle for the shooting to happen, not the other way around.
In my opinion, it doesn't matter if you are given a choice to impact a story or not. Others might say that the being able to impact the story is the final and most important operative word G in RPG (which is true), but I feel that the "game" part can come from a lot of aspect. Being able to play out the fights, to walk around, to see the world in itself can be fulfill the "game" requirement for some of us.
Hence I think FF is definitely an RPG. It might not be the epitome of RPGs, but it certainly is. It certainly isn't a wRPG where you get to pick your own portrait, and complete side quests at your own leisure, but that doesn't make it RPGs. It just happened to be a jRPG instead.
After what, 15 pages, people still aren't quite agreeing what RPG actually means.
While I agree that role playing is the operative words in RPG (not character growth, nor item management, etc). However, every game do (or at least shoe-horn in) some kind of story to tell, and giving you a role to play in it. I think what sets RPGs apart is the fact that the intent to tell a story takes precedent over other things.
Sure, HALO has a story. But the story is a vehicle for the shooting to happen, not the other way around.
In my opinion, it doesn't matter if you are given a choice to impact a story or not. Others might say that the being able to impact the story is the final and most important operative word G in RPG (which is true), but I feel that the "game" part can come from a lot of aspect. Being able to play out the fights, to walk around, to see the world in itself can be fulfill the "game" requirement for some of us.
Hence I think FF is definitely an RPG. It might not be the epitome of RPGs, but it certainly is. It certainly isn't a wRPG where you get to pick your own portrait, and complete side quests at your own leisure, but that doesn't make it RPGs. It just happened to be a jRPG instead.
15 pages......and people are still coming to the same, but outrageously stupid, conclusion. WHAT.THE.SHIT?Ghostwise said:In a more non traditional sense, I suppose all video games are role playing games. You embody the role of a character(s) and play through their game. Some are just way more complicated than others...which consequently, ends up making them more personable and enjoyable.
"A role-playing game (RPG) is a broad family of games in which players assume the roles of characters, or take control of one or more avatars, in a fictional setting. Role-playing games also include video games in which players control a character or team who undertake quests, and whose capabilities advance using statistical mechanics."
FF falls under this definition, nuff said.
FF falls under this definition, nuff said.