That's all I read when I hear people complaining about games being worse now. Nostalgia does wonders fogging our points of view - this is the precise reason I don't go back and replay games I loved back in the day. I did that once when I stumbled across my N64, I was a saad panda.
So, while I certainly have some gripes with the new BioWare games, I am sure that if I were playing them side-by-side with their older RPGs as a 14-17 year old I'd love 'em just as much as I did the others.
In another thread I read that people bitched about DA:O's old school combat approach, so logically they had to make the combat more action oriented. And people still *****, even more so. It's not that gamers are whiny primadonnas that can't be pleased. No, this is Bioware's fault 100%. To me, this is another sign that Bioware is losing its edge. Since when is Bioware so headless and submissive to just simply throw in features that players call for without taking a step back to see if the changes work for the game, and contribute to reaching the vision for it?
Because that's, you know, the JOB of a game designer.
I want to clarify something, they changed the combat because they didn't want to remake the same game with a different story. That used to be called innovation, now it's submission? Should we ***** at ultima 7 for doing the same thing?
I know you made an edit but you ignored this issue.
I really have hard time understanding players who just keep complaining that Bioware sucks because they do what the majority likes... seriously. They don't make these games for the few that want every game to be Baldurs Gate of Planescape, they make these a) for money. It is business after all. b)For the loud majority who want these games to be like these. A company that actually listens to it's fans is quite rare.
Five years is a long time in the gaming world. That's about a standard console's lifespan, unless the new model of 30 years takes over.
I also never said game franchises don't have their apologists, but SQUENIX has been taking crap for years, and its overall popularity has been on a steady decline. Even the FF series itse;f has seen a drop since 9 or 10 or so. I'd personally like to think 9, since that title was so godawful it still ranks among five or so PS2 titles I bought and never finished, but that's personal preference.
Final Fantasy will probably still have some of the most rabid defenders on earth even ten years after the series is dead and buried. But it's still not quite sacred. Nto anymore, and not for a long time now. Dirge of Cerebrus (also five years old), as you also mention, caught a lot of crap. Still had its defenders, but that's not the same as being held up in borderline idolatry. Even "user" reviews put the game in a pretty poor position.
First of all, some of that is wrong. FF9 was on PS1. So... I'm gonna assume you meant FF10? The one with Tidus?
Second, I still don't see what your point is. Are you saying it's a GOOD thing that Bioware is "sacred"? Or are you saying that people should stop giving it special treatment?
I mean, I can't agree or disagree with you, because I don't know what you're trying to say.
I can't fathom why people are still freaking out over this. Like people, game developers change over time. Bioware's games have a certain formula to them but no single game (even in the same franchise) is exactly like its predecessor. While I agree DA2 was rushed and suffered from some debilitating problems, its completely asinine to damn the developer for screwing up. They have proven their abilities in the past and they were bound to make a mistake eventually. No developer is perfect.
I just want to add... Gamers ARE prima Donnas... You can never please anyone completely/all of the time... Even less so to a whole community. Not saying that the gamer's expectations are wrong... Just unreal...
Also people tend to flame companies en masse based on just small information or rumours... I see that you edited your post. But you yourself admitted not researching the story properly... So It's ok I guess...
People wanted old school RPGs ala Baldur, hence Dragon Age Origins (since no D&D license) and the fact that Bioware isn't coworking with Atari anymore and Atari are the current holders of the D&D license...
Nice new IP (I know about the previous novels) but people wanted "better" combat (never had an issue with the DA:O combat myself, played it on both PC and PS3) hence Dragon Age 2 combat.
Now people are unhappy... But the thing is... They will be forever unhappy... Impossible to please one person completely/all of the time... Same goes tenfold for thousands of consumers...
Go back and play Baldurs Gate, KotOR and the original Neverwinter Nights.
Everyone fantasizes about things they played when they were younger and turns them into monolithic epic things which can never be superceded, but in my experience that's generally because were more easily impressed, not because the games were better.
In fact, go back and play a fighter in the original Baldur's Gate. Note how deep and tactical the combat is, certainly nothing like the action RPGs of today where you have to select abilities and click more than once in an entire fight.
Also I was genuinely shocked by how bad the writing is in places, especially with the character of Merrill who has such a critical lack of verisimillitude.
She's an interesting case. I haven't got too far into the game yet, but while her story is intriguing, sometimes it just feels like they found a voice actor with a (fairly soft) Welsh accent and let that accent write the character. She seems to spend a lot of time just being a naive, soft-hearted comedy Welsh girl stereotype, which might be a new and lovable thing for North Americans but for me feels slightly on the tail end of good taste.
Also, most of Isabella's lines make me feel like I need a shower.[footnote]Along with the nagging and slightly immersion breaking realization that she clearly didn't dress herself. Seriously, if you want to show off your female characters' tits while remaining convincing, throw in an opportunity for them to naturally wear less or be naked at some point in the story, don't try and pretend someone with a glamour model physique would honestly enjoy wearing clothes which look like they were tailored by someone who normally works in PVC. Meh, it's a pet peeve..[/footnote]
Even here though, I can't help but blame my expectations. Maybe I only notice because some of the dialogue is really good.. there's a bit in the first act where Carver says 'have we ever met a Templar who isn't a colossal prick?' which made me burst out laughing. Sure, not exactly Shakespearian but it felt like natural dialogue, it's the kind of thing I would come out with in the context.
He's also the only 'major' male character I'm ever aware of seeing in a video game who has a fairly convincing reaction to the realization that he's going to die. i.e. shocked regret as opposed to noble posturing or detached gallows humour.
Also, because I just did it recently, the quest with the Saarebas is golden writing. It's not even a moral choice as such, and yet I thought more about the dialogue in that 10 minute side quest than I did about the Geth decision in ME2 which everyone always goes on about. For me, it was a very poignant little story..
..and the fact that despite the illusion of choice you couldn't effect the outcome, that the Saarebas would kill himself regardless of what you said, only made it more so. It's good to be reminded that even as the protagonist your ability to change the world around you is limited.
Yeah it can get vey disconcerting- most of the time the writing is normal bioware standard (i.e. off the charts) but there are times when its so bad its jarring, I wont spoil it but Merrills companion quests are terrible- she acts in a manner no sentient being would, which is strange as the rest of them act ways so believable its uncanny.
[sub] Oh and you dont have to be American to find Merrill (for the most part) adorable, but then I guess I have a weakness for accents....[/sub]
Don't worry about Bioware...they won't be around forever. In time they will be replaced with fresh blood. But by that time there's a chance you won't be into gaming anymore.
Bioware is moving RPGs forward, just not in the direction I and many others like. You could say they're getting mainstream, it's no news actually. But it really sucks for their old audience who were looking forward to a future that didn't arrive.
Well this sums up the situation, Bioware et al have taken RPG into the mainstream but to do that they've butchered their previous design ethic and replaced that with action. To some people this is a revelation, to others its a travesty, but either way there is no point railing against change.. change in the games industry is driven by one thing: $$$ and so long as the majority want simplified action/RPG that is exactly what we will be served up.
Do I regret the future that didn't arrive? yeah damn straight, but you know what? there are other games companies. Bioware has gone from being one of my favourites to one of the companies that I think twice and three times about buying a game they've produced because I know i'll be disappointed. roll on the indie devs.
Manji187 said:
Don't worry about Bioware...they won't be around forever. In time they will be replaced with fresh blood. But by that time there's a chance you won't be into gaming anymore.
When does Baldur's Gate get so great anyways? I'm a few hours in (I had this game when it came out, didn't get past the first 30 minutes) and sure an Inn Keeper said his place was cleaner than an Elfs ass, and I chuckled.... but when does this great stuff happen?
I believe with the Tutu mod it's 150 hours or so, does it drastically change at some point?
Its great from the very first second you load up the game... Just throw away your preconceptions and expectations and have patience, enjoy the journey and don't worry about the destination, become immersed in the story and gameplay... Roleplay your character if you will.
(if you want an easy ride I strongly suggest you either go with a fighter or thief for BG1, especially the premade thief character who has better than normal starting stats. Also a big tip is this: its absolutely vital to get good stats to start with and to allocate the points the the right things for your character type, otherwise you could be shooting your character in the knees before you even start)
Plus of course it really really helps if you're an AD&D fan to start with, otherwise you're going to find it triple-bastard hard.
And once again I say have patience, you can't judge a book by the first page of the introduction... just read the fucking book.
Unfortunately, scaling enemies to fit the level of your party makes any feeling of progress vanish. It didn't work in Oblivion and it doesn't work in Dragon Age 2. What's the point of a bigger health meter and more abilities when street gangs continue to be your equal even at level 20 and beyond?
You never get the feeling of having become truly powerful, nor do you have any epic enemies to work towards. Everything is neatly scaled to your level so you can keep hacking and slashing without giving much thought to anything.
Baldur's Gate 2 pretty much invented that mechanic. Nothing like a mob of Adamantine Golems to smash your face in where a gaggle of kobolds was the last game.
When does Baldur's Gate get so great anyways? I'm a few hours in (I had this game when it came out, didn't get past the first 30 minutes) and sure an Inn Keeper said his place was cleaner than an Elfs ass, and I chuckled.... but when does this great stuff happen?
I believe with the Tutu mod it's 150 hours or so, does it drastically change at some point?
The Gods must be smiling at me, that was just where I last saved! What's cool too, my namesake Sober Thal is short for Thalantyr, and that's the name of a friggin blacksmith there too!
My plan is to attempt finishing Bladur's Gate 1 & 2, then Planescape (another game I bought new when it came out, and just didn't get into). But I hear the Neverwinter games are good too... and there was something called Ice Wind Dale or something.... not sure if they are all Bioware... any recommendations on a play through order on these classic DnD games?
Planescape is excellent. Somewhat lacking in the gameplay department, but still not terrible, and the best story I've ever seen in a game, by a long shot. I suggest you try that first (or last, if you don't want the plot of the rest to pale in comparison).
IWD is pure hack and slash. Sometimes it pretends to have a plot, which just makes it sadder. Still, if you like hack and slash, it fits the bill quite well.
NWN is newer, and 3rd edition. The original has a fairly terrible campaign, or at least, mediocre. One expansion is okay, and another, Hordes of the Underdark, is really quite good. NWN2 follows the same pattern - terrible OC, mediocre expansion (Storm of Zehir) and excellent expansion (mask of the betrayer). NWN2 has some classic Obsidian bugginess added, mind.
My point is not that the accent isn't lovely, more that it kind of feels like a stereotype for Welsh people to be bumbling, inoffensive, self-conscious and naive. Kind of like making black characters incredibly physical, direct and aggressive.. it's not quite racism, it's just a little uncomfortable.
She still strikes me as the best female romance option though, simply because Isabella's attitude to sex makes no sense. I meet sexually liberated 'promiscuous' women quite frequently, both through my course and poly/bisexual circles. Isabella acts more like a nominally female version of Zevran than anything else.. except I liked Zevran.
That said, I really like what they did with Anders (lets face it, he was just a bad comedy character in Awakening), Fenris has good moments (though his accent turns me right off) and the siblings have been great so far. Sebastian Vael also seems cool, although I've only just got him to join the party. So I guess the guys are winning my favour at the moment, go team meat!
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