Bioware...*sigh*

[Ghengis John]

Yet another pretentious snob on the internet. Ho HUM.

I'm sighing at the number of people who are disappointed that the world turns independently of whether they want it to or not. You got BG1, BG2, their expansions, NWN, NWN2, their expansions. Those were all very similar games. You couldn't expect them to keep making the same kind of games forever could you? Even Ford no longer produces the Model T.

 

[jackpipsam]

EA can be blamed for many things... this is not one of them

 

[Trolldor]

Do me a favour..

Go back and play Baldurs Gate, KotOR and the original Neverwinter Nights.

Everyone fantasizes about things they played when they were younger and turns them into monolithic epic things which can never be superceded, but in my experience that's generally because were more easily impressed, not because the games were better.

In fact, go back and play a fighter in the original Baldur's Gate. Note how deep and tactical the combat is, certainly nothing like the action RPGs of today where you have to select abilities and click more than once in an entire fight.

A fighter is the tank class. Go back and play a Druid/Cleric or mage, or maybe a melee rogue built around backstab.

Edit: Fucking oath... priest class... there is no priest class you nonce.

 

[Trolldor]

For fuck's sake.

You prefer the game they made twelve years ago? Then go play the game they made twleve years ago and stop bitching about it.

I think that the priorities of Bioware are misplaced and they just fail to focus on what's really important to making good RPGs.

Hey, here's an outlandish idea: Why don't you create a studio and make your own games if you're not happy with theirs? Seriously, Bioware has been making games since you were seven years old. Who do you think you are trying to teach them "what's really important to making good RPGs"?!

Phew... it's good to let the anger out once in a while. Thanks for that, buddy.

Your quote put a smile upon my face. I see a lot of people bitching about Bioware like a bunch of spoilt prima-donnas, yet - they have no reason to do so.

If they bothered to play the demo, they already knew what the game was going to be like. All the superfluous mechanics taken out to improve graphics, frame rate and cram in a touch more characterisation and story.

If the game truly bugged the moaners that much, they have three options open to them

1.) Play a better game. (They all seem to love KOTOR)
2.) Make their own - albeit a pen and paper RPG.

Less characterisation. Less Story.

 

[ShakyFiend]

Jesus another goddamn nostalgia things-were-so-much-better-in-the-old-days thread, please be sensible DA was a great game (and thats coming from someone who dosent even like it) and as far as I can tell DA:O is only getting so much hate because of the comparisons with the original. As usual in these situations most people admit that, if viewed objectively, it dosent look half as bad.

 

[beniki]

To be fair, a lot of it is just people not wanting to learn new stuff. I remember people complaining about Mass Effect 2 and it's lack of inventory. And then when people tried it, it really worked well.

RPGs are changing. Games as we know them, are changing. As much as we hold the THACO numbers close to our hearts, they were needlessly complicated. I loved the d20 system. I really did. And copying DnD is still one of the best ways to give players a lot of choice in character creation.

But where it falls down is that Bioware can't be everyone's GM. The story can't be tailored to allow for the fact you went rogue instead of paladin. Neverwinter Nights 2 is a great example of this. The third act makes the concept of a combat rogue nearly useless, since most of the mobs are undead, and immune to criticals, and thus back stabs.

I don't consider the new generation of Bioware games to be 'dumbed down' at all. They're trying new things, with lots of clever innovations. And God forbid they make a game that isn't based on paper, pencil and imagination graphics card.

The plain truth is that 'classic' Bioware games are very much still available. Just head down to your book store. And put on your robe and wizard hat...

 

[infinity_turtles]

Gotta say I'm one of those people disappointed with the way Bioware's been doing things for awhile. Sort of expected though. What a lot of the newer fans who like this aren't getting though, is that Bioware has been good at establishing brand loyalty in it's target audience, but they've changed their target audience. That's always going to lead to resentment, and that's even more pronounced here since Bioware was the only AAA developer catering to their previous audience. Older games and indie games are the only things left that properly scratch my gaming itch anymore, since my favorite sorts of games just aren't being made.

I don't hate Bioware for the changes they've made or anything, but I'm certainly not happy when I hear about them.

 

[IceStar100]

I've learned the only RPG's are dead everything a hybred now aday better or worst. I will say I am dispointed in them for putting out a rushed job and giving in to pressure.

 

[Jaime_Wolf]

Would you people please just stop.

In another thread I read that people bitched about DA:O's old school combat approach, so logically they had to make the combat more action oriented. And people still *****, even more so.

This is the most insightful part of your post.

It's not that gamers are whiny primadonnas that can't be pleased. No, this is Bioware's fault 100%. To me, this is another sign that Bioware is losing its edge. Since when is Bioware so headless and submissive to just simply throw in features that players call for without taking a step back to see if the changes work for the game, and contribute to reaching the vision for it?

Pretentious bullshit founded on the idea that true art/good creators shouldn't appeal to the masses. Plenty of people liked the game and that fact that it catered to their interests isn't indicative of some failing on the part of the studio.

Because that's, you know, the JOB of a game designer.

The job of a game designer is to make games. No part of the job description says "Part four: make decisions without taking into account the stated desires of your audience."

And is the cooperation with EA turning Bioware into an oppressive company that bans legitimate customers from playing their games simply for badmouthing them?

You mean the one guy who got banned by a glitch that resulted from the merging of Bioware accounts into the EA system and had the ban overturned with an apology in like two days? Or do you mean the other guy who we're not even sure is real and is probably just the victim of the same/another bug. They stated pretty clearly that a forum ban isn't supposed to prevent you from playing the games you've bought. So one confirmed, reversed mistake and one possible mistake without time to have been reversed, out of how many people that bought the game?

Generally I found myself liking Bioware RPGs less and less over the years. Ever since Baldur's Gate 2 did they start decreasing the scope of their games, actionifying the combat systems in them until the games they produce became a mockery of the games they used to make.

Alternatively, they keep adding action and a ton of people keep liking it and you're just angry that they're making games that aren't the same as the games they used to make. The recent games aren't a "mockery" (lol) of their old games because they're not intended to be clones of their old games anyway. They're not failing to be the old games because they're not intending to be the old games.

Bioware, just admit you aren't able to make games anymore like you used to. Admit that all you're trying to do is get the greatest common denominator of gamers to buy your games so that you can make more money. You obviously don't know anymore how to make a deep and epic RPG, because you're so misguided about the things that make them great. If you just concede this and move on to making semi-linear action games with good stories, that's okay. I liked Mass Effect 2.

I don't even know what to say. This is borderline humourous.

 

[KwaggaDan]

I find comfort in a designer constantly trying something new myself. Mass Effect 1 and 2 tried different things, and I expected DoAO and DoA2 to do the same. Personally I like DoA2, as the combat is more straight forward, but I also struggled on hard in DoAO, so much that I had to abandon the game after getting stuck [spolier] killing the Dwarven blacksmith in the mines.[/spoiler]

Good on you Bioware, just keep doing what you're doing.

 

[SageRuffin]

I say fuck everybody - I still enjoy BioWare for their games. Sure, DA2 may not quite be as grand in scale as the first game, but at least I can go into a combat scenario without falling asleep (and before anyone starts, yes, I grew up on "twitch" action games; relying on numbers is too luck-based).

So you like action games, not tactical rpgs. Your the type of person Bioware caters to now, so you shouldn't have any problem with them.

Um... do you have a problem with that?

Addendum: And what do you mean "I'm the type of person BioWare caters to now?" I've been playing their games since fucking MDK2.

Do i have a problem with you preferring action games ? Certainly not.

But don't we have enough damn "twitch" games ? They're a dime a dozen. No thinking and just mashing buttons put me to sleep, btw.

You don't have issues? Really? That wording from your first quote definitely states otherwise.

And I sure would like to know what kind of universe you've been living in to say that action games are "a dime a dozen". If anything, FPS' are everywhere, with no less than 3 being released within the last 6 six months.

 

[Vrach]

In another thread I read that people bitched about DA:O's old school combat approach, so logically they had to make the combat more action oriented. And people still *****, even more so. It's not that gamers are whiny primadonnas that can't be pleased. No, this is Bioware's fault 100%. To me, this is another sign that Bioware is losing its edge. Since when is Bioware so headless and submissive to just simply throw in features that players call for without taking a step back to see if the changes work for the game, and contribute to reaching the vision for it?
Because that's, you know, the JOB of a game designer.

So what you're saying is... player bitching shouldn't be listened to. Yet now you're condemning BioWare because people *****? Exactly based on what do you deem Dragon Age 2's combat system a failure or a backward-step from Dragon Age: Origins?

And is the cooperation with EA turning Bioware into an oppressive company that bans legitimate customers from playing their games simply for badmouthing them?

Read the article about that again. It's a mistake that's been corrected. And even if it wasn't corrected, it wasn't a ban, it was a suspension, one that would last a few days (3 iirc).

Generally I found myself liking Bioware RPGs less and less over the years. Ever since Baldur's Gate 2 did they start decreasing the scope of their games, actionifying the combat systems in them until the games they produce became a mockery of the games they used to make.

Congratulations. You have an opinion. One that's (generally) popular with older gamers and unpopular with newer ones. If you haven't noticed a pattern, old people like old things. It's because change isn't the favourite thing to most human beings.

Bioware, just admit you aren't able to make games anymore like you used to. Admit that all you're trying to do is get the greatest common denominator of gamers to buy your games so that you can make more money. You obviously don't know anymore how to make a deep and epic RPG, because you're so misguided about the things that make them great. If you just concede this and move on to making semi-linear action games with good stories, that's okay. I liked Mass Effect 2.

A business is trying to target the widest audience possible and actually maximise their profits? The NERVE!

Oh and what's obvious to you... well I'll just refer you to my previous argument. Although maybe instead of condemning an entire company over one of their products that you didn't enjoy (or at least not as much as you did the rest), you should point out the flaws within the product instead and move on.

I'm not that big a fan of DA2 either, but that's one game and it's all you're basing your argument of "your entire company sucks now". Oh and "actionfying" the combat is a good thing. It's a VERY good thing. I understand why you might like some of the last generation combat, but you should understand you do so because you grew up with it. Objectively, action-based combat is a positive step for the industry as a whole as it moves towards a more believable experience. And you'll be able to get your fix of non-action based combat still from indie devs, MMOs and browser games.

PS
Can someone explain to me what's more action-y about DA2's combat system vs. the one in DA: O? Cause honestly, I don't see any difference whatsoever aside from the fact Warriors/Rogues can actually do more than auto-attack now thanks to a better designed Stamina system.

Oh right, instant casts instead of cast times (this is pretty much exclusive to mages methinks?). Can you explain to me the logic behind that being a bad thing?

 

[ksn0va]

Stop feeding the troll!

 

[Keava]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but gamers changed over those years since Baldur's Gate, and obviously don't make majority of consumers. Studios like BioWare, being quite the behemoths don't he scene can't really afford pleasing just that small part of gaming demographic. The world moved forwards and you can see it with everything, games, tv shows, magazines, newspapers - take your pick.

Personally i really enjoyed DA2. Sure it had some annoying bugs (which game hasn't?).I disliked the fact that i couldn't fully customize companions gear, hated the recycled caves, i disliked the fact that even tho i could only change Hawke's armor i still got loads of drops for other classes but in the end i played the game for the story and it's presentation and in that regard it did not disappoint me. For me BioWare did good where it counts, and frankly they never were experts on technical gameplay ever. Each of their games had some quirks/bugs that annoyed many of the playerbase, but seeing Anders do what he did by the end of the game was well worth struggling through all those.

 

[Gunner 51]

Less characterisation. Less Story.

Hmm, I don't know about that. Isabella's story at least involves the MacGuffin that would have sent the Quanari on their way.

Spoiler

Especially if she didn't swipe it to begin with.

But the thing I did like about the characterisation was how it all got split up into three segments with the rest of the game. So the characterisation takes a fair old while in the game world as opposed to a few nights from DA:O. I thought that was pretty smart because most strangers would only open up to people like that after a fairly prolonged period of time.

 

[Squeaky]

Thier just changing thier demographic as much as i may hate them for changing thier games into a action games its just to risky i guess for them to do a game for a "niche" commuinty and with great success its just a great height to fall they cant risk making a brilliant game and it no selling.

 

[Clive Howlitzer]

I like a lot of the old games too but do you really want developers to keep making games the same way they did in the early 2000s or the 90s? I am a weirdo though who liked Dragon Age: Origins AND Dragon Age 2 equally.

 

[Snotnarok]

I still don't see what has people so bent out of shape, so far Dragon Age 2 has been great and ME2 was an amazing leap over it's first game. Annnnd then we get threads like this, seriously I think even if they made a game that was a game a billion times better than Baldurs Gate the people complaining WOULD STILL COMPLAIN.

 

[Nexus4]

Do me a favour..

Go back and play Baldurs Gate, KotOR and the original Neverwinter Nights.

Everyone fantasizes about things they played when they were younger and turns them into monolithic epic things which can never be superceded, but in my experience that's generally because were more easily impressed, not because the games were better.

In fact, go back and play a fighter in the original Baldur's Gate. Note how deep and tactical the combat is, certainly nothing like the action RPGs of today where you have to select abilities and click more than once in an entire fight.

This 100%
Nostalgia has that effect of making you forget everything that was wrong with those games, they were not the flawless, crown jewels everyone seems to think they are.