Birthers become 'Deathers'

[Lt. Vinciti]

What would the government gain by keeping Osama's death a secret for at most 3 years?

Election time begins now, and it'll draw a lot of votes Obamas way.

You don't believe that do you?

Yes I do...

People hate Obama...well they did....


Now they dont...he is the Osamaslayer the Ender of Evil the Killer of alQaeda

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHA3SHyCyoI

Should be the new Obama song....

 

[Sniper Team 4]

If he's not dead, then he and all of Al Qaeda are unbelievable idiots. They could do SO much damage to the U.S. and the world simply by having him release a video tape. So, the question becomes not whether he's dead, but rather, if he is still alive, why hasn't he said so?

Answer: Because he took a bullet to the head and another to the chest.

 

[BabySinclair]

Because these are the people who will stop at nothing to discredit the president, be it stemming from racism, radical conservatism, or just a general stupidity.

...as opposed to the people ignoring any fault of his and accusing anyone who disagrees with him of being racist because he's some sort of messiah? I highly doubt that only the evil conservatives are asking questions here. Both sides of the political fence have a shamefully high number of idiots.

Nope, there are plenty of them too, they however, aren't called into question by the OP so I wasn't going into it.

 

[Kingsman]

I know that this isn't the thinking of the majority of the people, and the 10% of the population at the edge of the bell-curve will always find something unquestionably stupid and insane to believe in.

Still doesn't kill a part of my soul every time I read what their newest baloney is...

 

[Therumancer]

Snip

It's a similar situation to Osama, in that when you get down to it, it revolves around the stupidity of Obama and his supporters. The issue exists because he created it, and allows it to exist. Of course you blame the supporters because they wind up backing Obama because of his party and/or race, and their dislike of the other political party, and don't hold their cantidate to any standards in defending him.

In short when it comes to Osama, blame Barry for this turning into a conspiricy.

Maybe he is slow to counter these claims because it just makes their proponents look so darn dumb.

In all seriousness though, this is like, the third or fourth iteration of this argument that I have read, and I stopped paying attention to birthers long ago. If the line of reason had any merit, birthers would not need to keep adjusting it every time they were shown to be wrong. If he had to spend all his time countering the readjustments of birther arguments, President Obama (a more respectful way of referring to him than Barry) would have no time to ensure that terrorist leaders are caught and killed.

First, he had no birth certificate, next it was phony, next they were calling in to question the wording "Natural Born Citizen" in the Constitution and arguing that it actually implies that both parents must be US Citizens. Now he was either born en route to the US, or renounced his citizenship to go to a school out of the country. Do you even have to renounce your citizenship for that? Additionally, can resigning one's citizenship even be an implicit act, or would you not need to fill out forms? If so, where are the forms that were filled out? I want to see the forms, birthers.

If that line of reasoning is even valid, my friend who is in school up in Quebec for a while is going to have some really surprising news when she tries to come home. But she will still be allowed to run for president since she was born here, and the Constitution says nothing about renouncing one's citizenship for a time, only to regain it.

As for Osama Bin Laden, I was actually somewhat bothered by the reports too. The government catches the most wanted criminal in the world: a 54 year-old man who reportedly receives regular dialysis treatments, and they are forced to shoot him for resisting. Then, they get rid of the body right away.

Of course, I'm not saying that it isn't true, just that it sounds a bit weird, but then few events that are filtered through the news media ever add up completely, especially when filtered further through politics and the intelligence community.

Well, it all comes down to the simple fact that Obama is a public person, and the accusations about his citizenship matter to a LOT of people, enough people for it to be visible on a national level. Anyone who doesn't address an issue like that, is either ducking it for some reason, or is being really stupid, neither of which reflect well on the person in question. It's hard for him to argue that he cares what the people think, while brushing what is a major issue for so many people under the rug.

Also, it's not a matter of people "changing their tune" due to a Birth Certificate being outed. It's a matter of the issue of the validity of that certificate being an issue from the very beginning. People that claimed he didn't have one, were NEVER a major force in the actual accusations, merely the segement Obama supporters chose to address as the "face" of the issue since they were the most easily dealt with.

The stuff about witnesses to his birth, and him renouncing his citizenship to attend schools overseas have been the focus of this issue to those who take it seriously for a very long time. His birth certificate being in Hawaii was known since this started, efforts to get a physical copy of said certificate revolved around issues like where it says he was delivered, largely because it can then be compared to the claims of eye witnesses and so on. Whether he was born in flight, after the plane landed, or in a hospital in Hawaii after the landing are all important details in the case, because apparently there are people claiming all of these things and since he was only born once, which groups are telling the truth is a factor.

The point is that the "Birther" stereotype left wingers attack and ridicule, really doesn't exist to any notable degree, the actual "Obama Citizenship" question is considerably more reasonable, and based around questions that aren't at all stupid, and really even if the questions WERE stupid and so easily dealt with, that just reinforces why something so trivial should have been dealt with before now. The more time that goes by that these issues are ducked, the worse Obama and his supporters look.

To be honest I am NOT saying that I believe Obama isn't a citizen, I have plenty of concerns about Obama without even getting into that. I'm just saying that there are valid questions that have been raised, that I think should be answered. He's actually gotten more attention from me by NOT answering the accusations, than the accusations themselves have.

There was some validity to the claim during the last election that it was too late for those issues to be investigated without derailing the election. To have forced Obama off the ballot until there were answers would have basically turned it into a one party election, and given Mccain the presidency (and my support Of Mccain aside, I'm not entirely comfortable with this kind of precedent and opening the door for everyone to raise questions about the other cantidate at the last minute). Once Obama was president however I think those questions should have been investigated, and the running of th ecountry turned over to the VP until they were, with the VP taking over if they proved to be true. Right now I definatly think they should be answered before the next election actually starts, either that or Obama should step down in silence and allow the Democrats to run another primary to get a cantidate (who might be worse than Obama, to be honest right now I'm none too fond of who it seems will be running against him in the upcoming election).

I'm not saying "lynch Obama" or anything like that, I'm just saying, let's actually investigate the claims officially, and act according to the findings. If this was any other situation people wouldn't be so eager to let him duck the inquiries. If they find nothing, so be it, at the very least we'll be able to stop hearing about it.

When it comes to Bin Ladin, your opinions are very similar to my take on the subject. As I've said before, if nothing else I would have at least had his head chemically preserved and put it up public viewing. I'd let anyone with questions grab a strand of hair from his beard or whatever for DNA testing. Then I'd have whatever is left of the head after X number of months stuck in The Smithsonian as a national relic from the time period, meaning that if 30 years later someone disputes all the current testing, they could grab a couple strands of hair, or just test the skull if it comes down to that. Keeping the head and disposing of the res tof the body being a fair compromise. Besides it also means you could do testing of the retinas, or let numerous dentists independantly verify the dental records and so on.

See, while it's not nice, on BOTH of these issues there is no good way to view this for Obama. He's either lying or he's stupid in letting these issues even exist.

 

[sunburst]

Lol. Very much the Glenn Beck approach to slander, right there. "Obama had him killed to cover his own tracks... or did he? I'M JUST ASKING QUESTIONS GUY!!!"

What does Martin have to hide? Why is he so quick to cast doubt on others? Who is he really?

M? M? Maniac? Moron? Manipulative? All three? I don't know!
A? Asshole! Arrogant Asshole!
R? Republican? That actually makes a lot of sense. Also, probably Racist.
TIN! TIN! TINFOIL HAT?! He wears a tinfoil hat because he's a crazy conspiracy nut! It's all so obvious now!

The most amusing thing in that article is this quote at the bottom:

In the euphoria of Osama's death we're overlooking these things in the same way in the euphoria of Obama's inauguration we overlooked the facts around his birth.

Probably not the best comparison for you to make right now since the facts around Obama's birth have consistently showed that you're an idiot. Might be a good idea to avoid reminding everyone how utterly wrong your last campaign was when pitching a new conspiracy. Friendly advice.

 

[Char-Nobyl]

Well, the differance is that with The Moon Landing we're talking about a video, and video and photographs are not the proof they once were, due to the simple fact that you can make a recording of anything, and even afterwards recordings can be altered.

So in other words, unless every person on Earth is physically present for every major event in history, they can be perfectly justified in claiming that it didn't happen.

Riiiiiiight. That's reasonable.

The conspiricy theories about The Moon Landing being based around the idea that it was all done on a sound stage, and the videos are real, it just wasn't shot on the moon.

This is a somewhat differance case, because no evidence that Obama presents can be accepted since photos, reports of DNA testing, etc.. can all be faked.

...how is that different? Both are cases where people claim that the evidence presented has been falsified. The moon landing conspiracy theorists (re: idiots) think that the video footage was faked. The current batch gaggle of geniuses think that the DNA tests were faked.

On the other hand, if we had the actual body released to the public it means any neigh sayer could have DNA testing done and prove that it is him. It's one thing for Obama to have "loaded" one group of testers, quite another for him to have ALL of them involved in a conspiricy and be able to keep this conspiricy going long past his own presidency, etc...

Wow. So that's your plan? You would have had Osama bin Laden's body touring the US from genetics lab to genetics lab, each one verifying that he's the real bin Laden?

My basic attitude is that he's a moron,

After the brilliant idea you just posted, I'm not surprised.

because by allowing this to happen, he's guaranteed that this will become like "JFK" or the ridiculous "Moon Landing" theories, because he's removed the one piece of evidence that can be used to absolutly disprove falsification. The problem with the Moon Landing is of course the inabillity to provide any real evidence that it wasn't faked, where a body could do that.

I lol'd at this. So Obama is condemned to go down in history in the same way JFK did? Oh, the horror! To be remembered as one of the most charismatic presidents of all time! And as a groundbreaking first for presidents, too (JFK was the first Catholic president)! What a terrible fate!

Osama Bin Ladin's body should have been put on public display, and remained open to any group that wanted to conduct testing to verify the death... at least for the forseeable future.

Islam is kind of like Judaism in regards to its burial customs. The dead are to be laid to rest within 24 hours of death. We abided by this custom, and did so in a way so that his place of internment cannot become a shrine.

Now, riddle me this: what happens when you violate the sacred religious customs of one of the highest profile terrorist groups on Earth? And what happens if you're doing so with the corpse of their leader? Here's a hint: it involves the deaths of quite a few civilians, most of whom aren't as well protected as American citizens.

Now yes, this does mean we'd wind up slicing up the body over a period of time, and certain people might make spiritual arguements about desecrating the dead, and so on, but frankly the guy was a monster, we have a seperation of church and state, and this guy's passing is a big enough deal to enough people where there should be absolutly no doubts as to his passing.

(slow clap) Great plan, man. Great plan. Convincing the small band of morons who think that America and Al Qaeda are conspiring together to fake Osama bin Laden's death would be totally worth the deaths of all those that get killed when Al Qaeda lashes back against any available target because their worst enemy is defiling their religion and the body of their leader in one fell swoop.

Sure, people could argue that maybe Obama cloned an Osama corpse or something, but that would be fringe whack jobs. Right now it doesn't take any kind of stupidly unlikely
occurance for Obama to have had this faked. What's more the speed with which his disposed of the body is almost asking for this to be turned into a conspiricy theory.

I mentioned the burial rituals in Islam earlier. Read those again, in case you've forgotten them already.

It's pretty much a no-win scenario for Obama, and one of his own creation. He either faked it to help carry a re-election, or he didn't and he's a moron in the way he handled it. In either case he took a giant dump on the country because the way the situation turned out we're never going to get absolute closure on the subject. He's opened the door for people to have "sightings" of Osama for the next 20 or more years since every bit of evidence presented could be faked, and it has all been produced by a guy with both the resources and motivation to fake it.

This is the latest in a grand tradition of things being exactly the opposite of how you describe them.

Know what Obama did? He tracked down the most wanted man on Earth, did so in a country where we technically weren't supposed to be, and killed him. Then, he disposed of the body in such a way that it abided by the tenants of the recently deceased's religion (which is shared by quite a few people), and also ensured that the body would not become a shrine in the process. And he did this all within 24 hours. Hell, being the president who put Osama bin Laden's head on a pike is a plus that could win Obama a few normally conservative votes in 2012.

The people who refuse to believe that Osama is dead? They're the same unpleasable nutjobs who wouldn't believe that 9/11 wasn't a government conspiracy if they'd been on the planes. They're the ones who demanded Obama surrender a birth certificate to prove he was a US citizen, and when he did, they demanded a second, better birth certificate. In other words: they're going to be dissatisfied with any outcome, and trying to do so would be a waste of time, effort, and brain cells.

 

[Carlston]

Well if you see the never ending "I MUST SEE DEAD BODY" people posting on the net, I could see why they want proof...

But hey took 2 years to show a birth certificate, how long you think the photos will take?

Right before election?

Bingo

 

[artanis_neravar]

I believe that this whole business is going to be a major vote draw, and the timing is kinda funny. However, I don't think there's a conspiracy, a lot of funny coincidences at best. Though I hate that we're not given any information about it, like why was his wife shot in the leg (unarmed), why was Osama killed (unarmed), well that actually makes it into an execution. Why didn't they bring him to court etc.

If we gave him a trial than he would have a podium to spew his anti-west rhetoric and incite more people against us

 

[Char-Nobyl]

If he's not dead, then he and all of Al Qaeda are unbelievable idiots. They could do SO much damage to the U.S. and the world simply by having him release a video tape. So, the question becomes not whether he's dead, but rather, if he is still alive, why hasn't he said so?

Answer: Because he took a bullet to the head and another to the chest.

I just got a hilarious mental image from your post.

Two Al Qaeda members are standing behind Osama, trying to make it look like they aren't holding him up. Osama, in turn, is wearing a large pair of sunglasses and an oversized hat to cover the bullet hole in his head. They then spend the entire video trying to make it look like he's still alive.

It's like Weekend At Bernie's, only with international terrorists! Shit, I'm starting the screenplay. This is gold.

 

[artanis_neravar]

Well, it all comes down to the simple fact that Obama is a public person, and the accusations about his citizenship matter to a LOT of people, enough people for it to be visible on a national level.

False, just plain false, this issue only matters to a very small group of very vocal people. Just because they are loud and everyone can hear them DOES NOT make them the majority.

 

[Therumancer]

Well, it all comes down to the simple fact that Obama is a public person, and the accusations about his citizenship matter to a LOT of people, enough people for it to be visible on a national level.

False, just plain false, this issue only matters to a very small group of very vocal people. Just because they are loud and everyone can hear them DOES NOT make them the majority.

They don't have to be a majority, just a sizable group.

Truthfully, like most things right now it's probably right around 50% with a lot of left wingers wanting to act like it's a smaller number.

The country is polarized, and this kind of thing falls right around party lines. Obama's supporters feeling he shouldn't have to justify anything, and those who don't support him thinking he should have to answer the questions put before him. In this case we're looking at bigger questions than you usually see, and which have as a result lead to a little more discussion.

If Bush's citizenship was in doubt, or he "flushed" Bin Ladin's body, the same questions would be being asked, and the breakdown with be similar, but it would be the opposite people from what you see now on each side.

 

[badreaper74]

To everyone one who wants to see the photos:

1. Navy Seals are badass and taught tho kill. The first shot would of been to his chest and the second woud of been a head shot.

2. Navy Seals have dam good aim.

3. A shot to the face will fuck your image up. Even if they did release photos there would be very little chance of being able to recognize him with half his face missing.

 

[artanis_neravar]

Well, it all comes down to the simple fact that Obama is a public person, and the accusations about his citizenship matter to a LOT of people, enough people for it to be visible on a national level.

False, just plain false, this issue only matters to a very small group of very vocal people. Just because they are loud and everyone can hear them DOES NOT make them the majority.

They don't have to be a majority, just a sizable group.

Truthfully, like most things right now it's probably right around 50% with a lot of left wingers wanting to act like it's a smaller number.

The country is polarized, and this kind of thing falls right around party lines. Obama's supporters feeling he shouldn't have to justify anything, and those who don't support him thinking he should have to answer the questions put before him. In this case we're looking at bigger questions than you usually see, and which have as a result lead to a little more discussion.

If Bush's citizenship was in doubt, or he "flushed" Bin Ladin's body, the same questions would be being asked, and the breakdown with be similar, but it would be the opposite people from what you see now on each side.

It is nowhere near 50%, not even close

 

[Therumancer]

Well, the differance is that with The Moon Landing we're talking about a video, and video and photographs are not the proof they once were, due to the simple fact that you can make a recording of anything, and even afterwards recordings can be altered.

So in other words, unless every person on Earth is physically present for every major event in history, they can be perfectly justified in claiming that it didn't happen.

Riiiiiiight. That's reasonable.

.

See, this right here is what derails these discussions. You can't make a valid arguement, so you have to start getting into absurdities. There is a big differance between every person having to be present, and having something like a body being made public.

Things like Muslim burial policies are irrelevent to the situation because the US is not only not a Muslim nation, but we have a seperation of Church and State. Religion and spirituality do not influance our policies. In a case like this where our best interests are served by NOT following the customs of another nation, we don't do it, we follow our own policies and customs. Argueing that we did this for diplomatic reasons is nothing but an excuse, and if true is another point in the "Obama is a moron" column if he had the body and disposed of it for this reason.

I get it, you don't like the points I'm making, that's fine, but there is no real way to talk around them. The bottom line always come back to what's actually happened. Obama brought the conspiricy theories on himself when he destroyed the body, he has absolutly no way of providing proof that he didn't make this up. He could have had proof if he had held onto the body, but he didn't... and of course, all the reasons for why he should have held onto the body provide the sparks for people to claim that we never "got" Bin Ladin.

Now understand, just because we didn't get Bin Ladin doesn't mean he isn't dead. I suspect he is, because Obama wouldn't risk the guy popping up just to mess with the US. He doubtlessly is Dead, but due to the way Barry handled this it will remain open to speculation as to whether we had anything to do with it, and of course Barry wants to take credit for it given the upcoming election.

 

[badgersprite]

Dude, people still don't think we landed on the moon and some people believe the whole "Earth is round" thing is just a conspiracy of lies.

This is small cakes compared to the crazy shit people will believe just to be annoying.

 

[Altorin]

When my girlfriend first heard about bin laden, she said "I'll only believe it when I see pictures."

I just looked at her cockeyed and said "uhhh, k".

Sometimes I hate my girlfriend.

 

[Ewyx]

If we gave him a trial than he would have a podium to spew his anti-west rhetoric and incite more people against us

so? What you're saying is, freedom of speech, as long as you agree with it right? Also, everyone has the right to a fair trial, except if you don't like them...

Yeah... core values huh?