I just want goldsellers and those that buy gold for real world currency to die slow painful deaths with multiple diseases while tortured by a raping manatee...
I'm a simple man like that.
I'm a simple man like that.
Blizzard Hits WoW Gold Sellers in the Wallet
- Thread starter Tom Goldman
- Start date
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One arguement that RMTs made back in the day in court is that they were not selling Gold ('Gold' meaning in-game currency, obviously) itself, but rather the time spent accumulating said Gold. What was being bought and sold was basically time, which has value, which circumvented the fact that Gold had no value, and was the property of the company. I forget if this was Farscape or Runequest or whatever, but the RMTs won. User agreements were adjusted accordingly, and now RMTs are not 'Hawking wares at a flea market' as a poster on the first page stated so much as they are 'hawking goods at a venue without a lisence'.
Basically they're virtual scalpers offering you a beer for ten bucks at a (whatever sport you like) game. The buyer might like that, it's not hurting anybody, but it's against the rules. They know that, the buyer knows that, the people in charge know that, but there ain't no rest for the wicked, money don't grow on trees...
I've only ever played FFXI for a MMORPG, but the Special Task Force dedicated to hunting down and eliminating RMTs did such a through job that IGE actaully stopped providing their services. This was unfortunately after FFXI started it's downwards spiral, which many veteran players agree was caused by the RMT hyper-inflation caused by a christmas sale at IGE; hot-ticket items inflated to ten, fifty, or even a hundred times their average value and players who could not cope began quitting en masse. SE's policy at the time was "There are no such things as RMTs, some players simply like to hoard Gil; mining, fishing, or camping for months at a time."
The STF was implemented shortly after (around May), with many jokes about how effective reporting a suspected RMT to a Special Task Force Unit would be responded with their acronym. This was not the case, RMTs were persecuted, and the decline of FFXI slowed considerably.
I know WoW is not in decline, but going by the example set by FFXI I can only see this move by Blizzard as a positive thing.
Basically they're virtual scalpers offering you a beer for ten bucks at a (whatever sport you like) game. The buyer might like that, it's not hurting anybody, but it's against the rules. They know that, the buyer knows that, the people in charge know that, but there ain't no rest for the wicked, money don't grow on trees...
I've only ever played FFXI for a MMORPG, but the Special Task Force dedicated to hunting down and eliminating RMTs did such a through job that IGE actaully stopped providing their services. This was unfortunately after FFXI started it's downwards spiral, which many veteran players agree was caused by the RMT hyper-inflation caused by a christmas sale at IGE; hot-ticket items inflated to ten, fifty, or even a hundred times their average value and players who could not cope began quitting en masse. SE's policy at the time was "There are no such things as RMTs, some players simply like to hoard Gil; mining, fishing, or camping for months at a time."
The STF was implemented shortly after (around May), with many jokes about how effective reporting a suspected RMT to a Special Task Force Unit would be responded with their acronym. This was not the case, RMTs were persecuted, and the decline of FFXI slowed considerably.
I know WoW is not in decline, but going by the example set by FFXI I can only see this move by Blizzard as a positive thing.
It's a good thing when a company has a monetary interest in maintaining the quality of their game. The gold sellers are generally the same wankers that make a business of hacking accounts, hacking the game, and running bots. Dealing with all that not only detracts from the quality of life for players but costs Blizzard manhours to have to sort out.baker80 said:
You don't see people going into a retail store, picking up merchandise and selling it directly to people while in the store, do you? That's what people "don't get" about gold sellers - this is exactly what they do.
That gold is not theirs to sell. It still belongs to Blizzard and is their intellectual property, not the gold sellers. In just about any MMO you're going to see this mentioned in the TOS along the lines of being able to cancel your account at any time. People are deluding themselves if they believe anything in that game world is theirs to own.
That gold is not theirs to sell. It still belongs to Blizzard and is their intellectual property, not the gold sellers. In just about any MMO you're going to see this mentioned in the TOS along the lines of being able to cancel your account at any time. People are deluding themselves if they believe anything in that game world is theirs to own.
Haven't read this whole thread, so I hope I'm not just stating what's been said:
Several games are getting along fine converting out-game money to in-game money through some sort of fixed system (varies by game). Best I've seen so far is Kingdom of Loathing, where ten dollars gets you an item worth (last time I was on) 6 or 7 million units of in-game currency, but there's no way to exchange the money back out of the game.
In this way the game creators sanction the trade, allowing a legal and supported way to connect the people with more time than money and the people with more money than time. And a few out-game purchases fund an otherwise free game! Most of the players get by making in-game money, and a small percentage buy in on behalf of the rest of us.
If Blizzard offered something similar to this, perhaps it would stop this problem cold. I'm totally anti-spammers and anti-farmers, but it does seem like, as others have said, Whack-a-Mole. If Blizzard opened its doors to a reasonable currency exchange, it'd have to deal with some balance issues, but it'd also shoot the spammers right in their wallets - for reals this time.
(Alt: Allow the "bought" money to buy only certain items, perhaps vanity items only. Might be better for balance, might not.)
ETA: Wow, Lerxst, that's put quite well! And way shorter than I could've said it if I'd tried.
Several games are getting along fine converting out-game money to in-game money through some sort of fixed system (varies by game). Best I've seen so far is Kingdom of Loathing, where ten dollars gets you an item worth (last time I was on) 6 or 7 million units of in-game currency, but there's no way to exchange the money back out of the game.
In this way the game creators sanction the trade, allowing a legal and supported way to connect the people with more time than money and the people with more money than time. And a few out-game purchases fund an otherwise free game! Most of the players get by making in-game money, and a small percentage buy in on behalf of the rest of us.
If Blizzard offered something similar to this, perhaps it would stop this problem cold. I'm totally anti-spammers and anti-farmers, but it does seem like, as others have said, Whack-a-Mole. If Blizzard opened its doors to a reasonable currency exchange, it'd have to deal with some balance issues, but it'd also shoot the spammers right in their wallets - for reals this time.
(Alt: Allow the "bought" money to buy only certain items, perhaps vanity items only. Might be better for balance, might not.)
ETA: Wow, Lerxst, that's put quite well! And way shorter than I could've said it if I'd tried.
Realy? because they are ruining your world of warcraft game? That is so sad, although i guess if wow was my only life i would get mad when someone is smart enough to figure out a work around doing all the hard work that i spent 1000 hours doing over the last few years..Arawn.Chernobog said:
I really enjoy how this comment manages to be spiteful and sarcastic while utterly failing to grasp the exceedingly obvious point that was being made. While some people might purchase gold to aid in their experience in WoW (an act that I will not condemn anyone for as one is going to make a payment of a kind for any gain in said game, be it time, subscription fees or simply cut out these imposters and deal in the real currency), others do not like this taking place. Among the parties who do not like this turn of events are the people who made and run the game.FogHornG36 said:
Were such activity not harmful in some way, nobody would throw a fit. But I think even a casual glace at the evidence would tell us that gold selling is not a harmless activity. Such actions allow a player to gain items in the game without having to sit around and play the game themselves. This in turn makes it less necessary to play to excel in the game, which in turn makes it increasingly unlikely that a player will continue sending fifteen bucks a month to Blizzard. Bystanders are inundated with endless spam, a problem that becomes worse as they rise to the ranks. People just trying to play the game will often useful crafting material areas being farmed by an army of robots around the clock and loot rich enemies are slaughtered by automatons. Still others have their accounts compromised, their loot stolen and sold and their characters left naked in the woods. Everyone who is playing the game when gold farming is rampant (as it is in WoW) is affected by such things. Some benefit (the gold farmers and their customers), but the rest deal with annoyance, inconvenience and frustration.
Just because these things happen in a virtual space does not mean they impact is any less real. The time a player might have spent getting that incredible piece of gear only to have it stolen is precisely as real as that time spent doing anything else. And, if there is one thing that people really don't like, it is when the value they built with time and effort is destroyed. Just because you do not see value in such things does not mean others see the world the same way.
Nope, don't even play the game, I hate them for hacking private accounts and utilizing them for their means, thus assaulting private property, if somebody steals ANYTHING from me I'd like the chance to shoot them in the face (no exceptions, ever)FogHornG36 said:
Please don't include me in a blanket-quote because you want to draw attention to a different post you madeGindil said:
This really seems like a futile measure. All it'll do is make the farmers/buyers/sellers take different routes. It punishes Paypal more than anyone since it'll cause both buyers and sellers of virtual product on any game to take their business elsewhere since if this works the other studios will likely follow suit. Like many people have said, if Blizzard really wanted to put an end to this they'd just sell the gold/gear/etc themselves and put the farmers out of business. The farmers have to put in effort, someone at blizzard just needs to hit a few keys. But, Activision-Blizzard prefers to stomp people under their big tyrannical boot.
Though as asinine and mean-spirited this move by Blizzard is, I am glad that they're taking steps to reduce the RMT market. I just wish they found a more productive method. I'd rather seem them focus on account security and putting a dent in the farming that way. But again, Blizzard has such a "blame the victim" policy for hacked accounts, they'd never admit their own security failings.
Though as asinine and mean-spirited this move by Blizzard is, I am glad that they're taking steps to reduce the RMT market. I just wish they found a more productive method. I'd rather seem them focus on account security and putting a dent in the farming that way. But again, Blizzard has such a "blame the victim" policy for hacked accounts, they'd never admit their own security failings.
There's a big factor those who 'support gold selling' leave out. Where does that gold come from? It comes from...
1. Farming bots, which hurt the game economy. Gathering stops being a viable way to make gold if you're competing against a dozen bots flying pre-programed loops 24/7.
2. Hacked accounts. Supporting gold selling is the same as supporting the barrage of emails and in game messages trying to steal your account.
Blizzard is fully in the right to take whatever steps it can to stop this activity. Those arguing against it are anarchist 12 year olds who put WoW on mommy and daddy's credit card.
1. Farming bots, which hurt the game economy. Gathering stops being a viable way to make gold if you're competing against a dozen bots flying pre-programed loops 24/7.
2. Hacked accounts. Supporting gold selling is the same as supporting the barrage of emails and in game messages trying to steal your account.
Blizzard is fully in the right to take whatever steps it can to stop this activity. Those arguing against it are anarchist 12 year olds who put WoW on mommy and daddy's credit card.
Hacking private accounts is not what we are talking about, its about people exchanging gold for real money.Arawn.Chernobog said:
also Eclectic Dreck, i didn't miss the point, you are just mad because your dream like world... of warcraft, is being coruptied by bots, and people who want to cut corners instead of grinding for hours on end, i also understand that yes, for theses people it ruins the game and they grow boord sooner, but its their choise to make.
People like me, i grow boord of mmo's after a week and quit anyway, so i might as well get as much fun out of it as i can, not that i have ever shelled out any real cash for gold anyway. If someone wants something there will always be a black market for it.
So that's when the complains to paypal that the seller didn't give you your goods you agreed on.Lyri said:
Easy customer case to get money back.[/quote]
Assuming the buyer KNOWS his/her gold request was being passed through another website. Realistically they wouldn't.
Gold sellers will be back up and running in an hour. The only way to stop gold sellers is for the MMO to sell gold to its customers at a lower price than what the farmers are willing to offer. More money for the developer, no gold spamming in game. Win win.
I never bought the idea of Chinese kids playing wow to sell gold. I always expected Blizzard staff to be making bucks off the side,
I want 1000 gold please.
+create/item gold=1000
That'll be 50 bucks...
Yeah, that's more believable than Chinese wow sweat shops.
I want 1000 gold please.
+create/item gold=1000
That'll be 50 bucks...
Yeah, that's more believable than Chinese wow sweat shops.
Blizzard finds gold sellers by examining the data from the game servers. Even if they change payment methods/providers, this will not stop Blizzard identifing accounts trading large amounts of gold an banning them.Gindil said:
Any online payment company would rather deal with Blizzard than a gold seller (because there is more money coming in from Blizzard and much less risk of clawbacks or legal issues.)
Privacy? Exactly what private info would these players be concerned about (in relation to this case with Paypal)?Gindil said:
The VAST majority of players don't buy gold and are annoyed by gold spam.
Even if ALL the player who do buy gold leave, it is not going to break Blizzard, or even create a dip in Blizzard's revenue.
The amount leaving (because they can no longer buy gold) will be offset by players returning (because the gold spam that annoyed them has gone).
It is possible, but very unlikely.Gindil said:
Because Blizzard has over 250 people in QAT (more than most game studios employ in total).
Data mining is very reliable in identifing these accounts (that have traded gold).
The 4th amendment does not apply to this case (as Blizzard is not a government agency/officer, nor is Blizzard conducting searches on property owned by the players).Gindil said:
Please explain how you think the 4th amendment could be applied given that Blizzard owns the data, not the player. As such Blizzard has every right to examine the data (and does not have to seize the data to examine it).
You also really think that a player / gold seller could afford to fight Blizzard in court? In a case where they have clearly breached their contract (EULA) with Blizzard?