Blizzard Hits WoW Gold Sellers in the Wallet

[Danpascooch]

So you want WoW to become WarcraftVille?

It would completely ruin the game if nobody had to work for anything, and could just buy whatever they wanted.

The whole gold store stuff would still be controlled by Blizzard, and since the gold would be used to buy ingame stuff, mostly from other players (auction houses), I don't think it would hurt the economy much, since the gold would keep circulating the game world.
Of course, at first some player would have an advantage, but then he uses the gold to buy stuff, and some other player has it. The gold would gradually leave the game world again through NPC traders (repair, resurrection, spells, supplies and whatever they included by now).

People would work less for gold if they could buy it, and then there would be tons more ore spawns and such not tapped, and the price of ore would shoot up, it would cause all sorts of problems, this is a complex and largely unstable economy we're talking about.

Hell, the WoW economy is more complicated than some countries.

 

[TechNoFear]

So, the gold you earn in WoW isn't even yours. Here's where we are now in regards to games and what you own.

1) A disc, maybe

Here's what you don't own.

1) The game
2) The game console
3) Your save file and all the progress you have made

Really folks, is there some point where we will draw the line or can the game industry just EULA ownership of our souls too?

What is stopping you from drawing that line? If it worries you so much, don't buy games.

With the rapid adoption of SaaS (software as a service), cloud and VPN desktop providers, I suggest you try to get used to it.

Funny how pirates always point out the difference between digital goods and real goods and say they are not 'stealing'.

Then complain when the industry reacts and starts adopting new business models/contracts to reduce unauthorised use of their IP.

 

[TechNoFear]

Are you calling me a pirate?

As much as you are calling the game industry the devil, for taking ownership of your soul.

You have some issue with the software industry taking measures to protect itself against piracy (copyright violations) and expect the industry to sell software as if it was a physical product.

Either you are unable to grasp the difference between 'scarce' and 'infinite' goods, or you are a pirate.

 

[Boxinatorizore]

I don't get why everyones getting so pissed that Blizz is attempting to take down rule breakers. I mean, it's not really doing any harm, it may not be the most effective, but no bad is coming out of this.

 

[fordneagles]

This. Won't. Change. ANYTHING.

PayPal is just a means to send money. You sign up with your email address, send money to another email address, they deposit into their bank account. Trying to 'remove' PayPal as an option to pay for this sort of thing is pointless because it's so terribly easy to get around. As long as you don't mention WoW anywhere, how will they catch you? As for checking player accounts for spontaneously acquired gold, that wouldn't work either because a lot of people send gold to other characters (their own or others) for free or for various other reasons that entirely are NOT anything to do with gold buying/selling. You just can't police this sort of thing.

P.S. I absolutely cannot *stand* people who buy or sell gold/items/whatever. I am not encouraging anyone to do anything of the sort by writing this post. I am just making my point that what Blizzard and PayPal are trying to do with this is utterly useless

 

[TechNoFear]

I think the game industry has gone too far fighting piracy and is harming legitimate customers as a matter of routine. Billion dollar corporations suing customers is also becoming common place. This kind of behavior would be unacceptable in any other industry and IMO it is unacceptable in this one.

Again, clearly a difference between industries producing infinite goods and scarce goods.

Industries producing scarce goods charge their customers with theft in these cases (not copyright infringement).

But this thread is not about a 'Billion dollar corporations suing customers'. Gold sellers are not customers.

You clearly 'rent' access to the MMO server. Stop paying and your access is removed, just the same as if you stop paying your rent (or trash the property) you get evicted.

 

[Baresark]

Blizzard is absolutely full of crap on this one.



How would this hurt their fanbase? A vast majority of people who play the game are 100% against gold sellers and spammers. How would this have repercussions?

First, this causes the gold spammers to go underground with their network. It also causes people to find other avenues to get the same goods. So instead of using Paypal, they might use Flattr or some other means.

In extreme circumstances, they may close their Blizzard account and play another game, citing privacy concerns.

The other problem comes in when it's Blizzard complaining to someone who may be innocent. Given how Blizzard has been acting recently (suing anyone for IP reasons) it's more likely that this can actually cause legal problems should someone actually take the 4th Amendment [http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=22338] route. Not saying it'll happen but again, I'm pointing to all the things that could happen on the worst scale of things.

I spent all weekend dealing with this. First I was accused of buying gold, which I find amazing because my level 43 character has bought nothing on the auction house except 2 bags, and I only possess 201 Gold. 50 of it came from the head of my guild. Other than that, it's from selling loot I get from mobs and running instances. The second time I was accused of trying to sell my WoW account. I, for one, am on the verge of deleting all my characters ( I have 2 characters, both below level 40 from the Burning Crusades era), canceling my WoW account, and committing to not buying any more Blizzard games. How many times do you need to get slapped in the face before you stop giving someone money to slap you in the face?

Also, as you say, Paypal isn't the only way to sell stuff on the internet. This is a fine example of security adversely effecting the innocent.

 

[Baresark]

I don't get why everyones getting so pissed that Blizz is attempting to take down rule breakers. I mean, it's not really doing any harm, it may not be the most effective, but no bad is coming out of this.

Well here's my problem:

- People are grinding to get this gold
- People are paying a monthly fee

Yet all progress made (by any player) is the property of Blizzard.

Consider it this way, if you put 1000's of hours into a game only to have the game company that made the game erase your file because "it's their property", would that piss you off? It's a matter of principle and before these game companies are done, you won't even own the computer a game is installed on (already happening with the PS3).

You, my friend, have pointed out the major problem with Intellectual Properties (IP), and IP rights. This is only an extension of what is happening with it in other areas such as music and movies. It was inevitable really, our whole system in regards to these issues is completely corrupt.

 

[Baresark]

Are you calling me a pirate?

As much as you are calling the game industry the devil, for taking ownership of your soul.

You have some issue with the software industry taking measures to protect itself against piracy (copyright violations) and expect the industry to sell software as if it was a physical product.

Either you are unable to grasp the difference between 'scarce' and 'infinite' goods, or you are a pirate.

I think you are way off base. He didn't say a single thing that indicated he pirated software. He pointed out a valid problem with a growing industry. IP is a problem in a lot of ways. Mostly because people are being charged money for digital goods, then are not given any ownership rights of it. He shouldn't be called a criminal simply because you do not agree with him. A valid argument is that perhaps someone should develop a system for a game such as WoW, that you do not store any data at all on your own hard drive. Then you have a clear cut difference between what is owned, and what is not. As soon as that data is put onto a storage device that you own, it is no longer just a digital good, but is an item that uses a portion of a finite storage medium that you DO own.

I'll put it simply, they should offer people the EULA BEFORE they purchase a product, not after they have already spent their money on it.

It really sucks because I for one love digital distribution, and that is my preferred way of buying any software.

 

[Baresark]

I think the game industry has gone too far fighting piracy and is harming legitimate customers as a matter of routine. Billion dollar corporations suing customers is also becoming common place. This kind of behavior would be unacceptable in any other industry and IMO it is unacceptable in this one.

Again, clearly a difference between industries producing infinite goods and scarce goods.

Industries producing scarce goods charge their customers with theft in these cases (not copyright infringement).

But this thread is not about a 'Billion dollar corporations suing customers'. Gold sellers are not customers.

You clearly 'rent' access to the MMO server. Stop paying and your access is removed, just the same as if you stop paying your rent (or trash the property) you get evicted.

You shouldn't throw around terms like "infinite goods". Those do not actually exist. Scarcity can reach as low as humanly conceivable, but nothing is infinite. The cost of accessing a webpage can be almost nothing, but it can never be nothing.

 

[Baresark]

I don't get why everyones getting so pissed that Blizz is attempting to take down rule breakers. I mean, it's not really doing any harm, it may not be the most effective, but no bad is coming out of this.

Well here's my problem:

- People are grinding to get this gold
- People are paying a monthly fee

Yet all progress made (by any player) is the property of Blizzard.

Consider it this way, if you put 1000's of hours into a game only to have the game company that made the game erase your file because "it's their property", would that piss you off? It's a matter of principle and before these game companies are done, you won't even own the computer a game is installed on (already happening with the PS3).

You, my friend, have pointed out the major problem with Intellectual Properties (IP), and IP rights. This is only an extension of what is happening with it in other areas such as music and movies. It was inevitable really, our whole system in regards to these issues is completely corrupt.

Someone earlier said "Intellectual Property is not compatible with civilization" (or something like that). It's true. If things keep going this way and if gamers keep supporting this nonsense, we may see another video game crash.

Speaking of music, alot of tv shows that have been put on DVD can no longer use the original music because the music industry wants royalties again. I think that is also why we will never see a re-release of Earthbound, fuckin' copyright laws have changed for the worse since it was first released.

I do believe that whoever said that quoted the late great Leonard Read. He was a great man who was completely against the, what he considered, out of control copyright laws of the 1940's and 1950's. He is no doubt turning in his grave as this thread is burning. It seems like a lot of people would rather see something turn to dust from disuse, then to let people have it. It's also a very popular item in certain educational areas. There was actually a professor at Harvard University that took to video recording all of his lectures so none of the students could discuss the material online with each other. He felt that people were paying for the education and anyone not paying to take his class should not be allowed to have it.

 

[FogHornG36]

Free enterprise, and this is America, if you got the bread, you should be able to cut corners and jump ahead, in reality, they are just ruining their own game in buying gold and all this fancy equipments, because the real fun is in the journey, and not in the destination.

 

[squid5580]

I've been playing for years, and it's NEVER been easier to make gold, the average quest gives you 20 gold + a 10g item to vendor, add that to your gathering while you're questing and random rare drops and money is just raining down on you.

All but the most casual of player are doing just fine for cash unless they're desperately in need of epic flying on all of 10 alts.

I try to make it clear that the guild is heavily against gold buying, as you're just opening yourself up to being hacked.

As for ...

Ban accounts taking part in EULA-breaking activity? Sure. But it's utter bullshit that Blizzard has the legal standing to interfere with a business deal between third parties, or tell people who may and who may not hold a tournament where people compete at playing a Blizzard game. (Which Blizzard also does.)

I know nothing about the tournaments, but when you sign the UELA in WoW, you agree that all virtual money and items remain the property of Blizzard, therefore all these companies are selling stuff they don't own. I'd say that's enough of a problem, legally.

I just wish people would STOP buying that crap, it fills the game with spam, it gets newbies hacked and puts them off the game, and it's not even a real advantage, any really decent gear, you've generally got to raid for. There's bits an pieces you can buy for 15-20,000 gold, but mostly just try playing the game.

Wait what?? You mean after someone spends 50 bucks plus the expansions, paying another $15 a month you really expect people to put in time and play the game? That is crazy talk.

I can't believe there is a need for goldsellers in the first place.