Bullying: Stop the complaining.

[Twilight_guy]

Bulling is a serious issue. Not everyone deals with it well and some people get emotional damage from bullying. I knew someone who was bullied as a child and she still held a grudge that defined her life well over 40 years later. Just because you dealt with it (or so you say, you'd be surprised at the wonderful world of human psychology) doesn't mean it isn't an issue or it can be dealt with as easily by someone else. It is an issue and one that needs to be addressed so that kids know what to do. Dealing with bullies is as much a life skill to be taught as learning to make friends.

I was bullied, mostly in junior high school and high school. I've dealt with it, but it will probably always make me more wary of people as a result.

 

[mrhateful]

I believe that bullying occurs when low life redneck kids intermix with normal kids ie. public school and as such if it weren't for school being public there would be no problem.

 

[Yopaz]

I disagree. Violence solves things, quite a few things actually.

Well you and I have had different experiences there it seems. I have tried violence as a solution to some of the bullying I have face in the past. The result was that I would just get ganged up on rather have one person against me. So the chance of getting beaten by one ended with me being beaten by 4 persons.

I have also seen people who have actually managed to beat up their bully and get into all kinds of problems because of it. Some getting off with a suspension and some getting a criminal record which made it all but impossible to get a job even decades afterwards.

Even if you have had positive results by turning to violence be aware of the possibility that it might not solve your problems. Your experiences aren't universal facts.

I was being a smartarse to your comment of "Violence solves Nothing" in the most general sense.

Actually, if you were to check the post you originally quoted and this post you might spot that I wasn't the one who said that violence solves nothing. I was simply pointing out that advising violence as a solution is pretty stupid.

 

[generals3]

You know what i don't get with bullying and suicides resulting from it: if you've stopped fearing death and started pondering suicide why not use that lack of fear of death to stand up for yourself? I mean really, death scares the shit out of me and if i were ever bullied that would probably be the reason why i would avoid settling things with fists (sometimes fists kill). But if i wouldn't fear death oh god i'd have myself a joy standing up for myself until the bitter end. Just think about it: if the beating ends up killing you, what did you lose? Nothing because you would have committed suicide anyway. However in this case the a-hole who bullied you would get his rightful punishment because he would be charged with manslaughter. (it might be a milder sentence since you fought too but he'll most likely won't get away as easily as when you commit suicide) And, the more likely scenario, if you don't end up dead odds are people will start respecting you more because you stood up for yourself and suicide might not even be "needed" (it's never needed but some people apparently think it is) anymore because the bullying would stop or decrease.

Suicide as a consequence of bullying is the most silly and illogical concept ever.

Now on bullying in general. Is it ever acceptable? No. But it is part of life just like getting mugged in dodgy neighborhoods. And as such we should both hunt down the culprits (bullies and thieves in my analogy) but also teach people to protect themselves from those culprits (in case of bullies: to stand up for yourself, seek help or be bigger than the aholes and in the analogy: avoid those neighborhoods). I actually fear that by putting so much attention on the culprits we start forgetting to actually teach the victims to deal with those issues.

 

[Ragsnstitches]

He's pressuring the victims of bullies to grow some balls, which is both degrading and demeaning to the victim, which is coincidentally (or not) the same result as bullying.

I find it sad that we live in a society where people actually believe that being told to rise to the challenges before them is degrading and demeaning.

I find it sad that we live in a society where standing up for others is a hard concept to grasp and is met with resistance.

I find it infuriating that people act like bullying is a minor thing. "Oh I've been bullied blah blah blah, and look at me now"... yeah your a condescending, unsympathetic/empathetic, self gratifying asshat. Congratulations.

I find it sickening that people still find ways to rationalise abuse and redirect the pressure of adjustment to the victims. Doubly so when they think useless advice is all they need to do that.

I find it a complete mindfuck, that we live in an age where we revere historical and contemporary figures who stood up for other people and for things bigger then themselves, but completely miss importance of empathy and compassion, the traits these Icons promoted. We see their strength and courage and value that, which is fine, but forget that these people stood up for those that couldn't and took the hits for them.

The OPs advice is about as useful as a cooking book during a famine. There are situations where intervention is necessary to pull someone out of despair. Telling a victim to man up is the same to them as a bully verbally abusing them or emasculating them, simply because they don't have the requisite courage to do that. The advice translates to condescension.

You know what i don't get with bullying and suicides resulting from it: if you've stopped fearing death and started pondering suicide why not use that lack of fear of death to stand up for yourself? I mean really, death scares the shit out of me and if i were ever bullied that would probably be the reason why i would avoid settling things with fists (sometimes fists kill). But if i wouldn't fear death oh god i'd have myself a joy standing up for myself until the bitter end. Just think about it: if the beating ends up killing you, what did you lose? Nothing because you would have committed suicide anyway. However in this case the a-hole who bullied you would get his rightful punishment because he would be charged with manslaughter. (it might be a milder sentence since you fought too but he'll most likely won't get away as easily as when you commit suicide) And, the more likely scenario, if you don't end up dead odds are people will start respecting you more because you stood up for yourself and suicide might not even be "needed" (it's never needed but some people apparently think it is) anymore because the bullying would stop or decrease.

Suicide as a consequence of bullying is the most silly and illogical concept ever.

Now on bullying in general. Is it ever acceptable? No. But it is part of life just like getting mugged in dodgy neighborhoods. And as such we should both hunt down the culprits (bullies and thieves in my analogy) but also teach people to protect themselves from those culprits (in case of bullies: to stand up for yourself, seek help or be bigger than the aholes and in the analogy: avoid those neighborhoods). I actually fear that by putting so much attention on the culprits we start forgetting to actually teach the victims to deal with those issues.

It's hilarious that you argue logic when you fail to grasp the the actual consequence to bullying.

It's not loss of a persons will to live, it's loss of a persons self-worth. Given enough time a victim of bullying starts to think the same way as the bully. They see themselves as petty, weak, useless. Depending on the source of the bullying it can infer other things (abusive parents infers you aren't wanted, abusive faculty members implies that your bullies are right and you are wrong, useless advice like "man up" infers you are less then a man, etc.)

At a point they don't even feel like lashing out, they can't even see how they could be wrong. If a bully is able to whittle someone that far down, the family fails to notice or doesn't care and the people in our society who have power to intervene don't, then the "LOGICAL" conclusion for the victim is that the bully is right and he is worthless and deserves the punishment.

But no one want's to live like that, so they choose the most rational course of action giving how fucked up their values are. They kill themselves in a fit of self-loathing, not in anger.

EDIT: In case that isn't clear, for some victims of bullying, the bully isn't even an aggressor. I mean, it's the victim, after all, who's at fault. It's his flaw and he can't figure out what that flaw is. Since the bully will keep bullying no matter how much that person changes. It won't even cross his mind to confront the bully because the bully is merely reacting to the victims aggravating and pathetic presence.

EDIT EDIT: There is an alternative outcome, where people do turn on their bullies... it's called going psycho and killing a bunch of people. You know, School shootings and the such.

 

[FallenTraveler]

Wouldn't a more apt solution to the bullying problem be to teach kids to stand up for themselves and others? The most common solutions that are being presented today are some of the most asinine things.

1. Telling a teacher
2. Ignoring it
3. ETC.

Most responses to bullies seem to be running away from the problem or shirking off the responsibility of the problem to a third party, RATHER then dealing with the issue yourself.

I can't believe you said that bullying is something that you can ignore or that people will help you. That's simply not always true.

I was bullied for years, so much so I had to switch schools. It's not something you can necessarily ignore. I told people, I fought back. It didn't stop. I did ignore it, it didn't stop. So yeah, bullying is a serious thing. Awareness should be tantamount, self defense should be prioritized. But don't tell people that bullying shouldn't be covered. We need to make schools safer, we need to make people safer, and maybe once the kids are safer, then the adults will become safer. Saying people are like that in the real world is such a terrible argument. Once you let this whole non-bullying thing take affect it will seep into the rest of society because those kids will head into society.

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

Wouldn't a more apt solution to the bullying problem be to teach kids to stand up for themselves and others?

While i disagree that solving bullying should be entirely up to kids (i mean come the fuck on kids cant police themselves well in ANY other area, i dont expect them to do it alone for this one. Theres a reason parenting is a thing. Kids cant make good decisions. In hindsight its EASY to just "let it go" but kids (while they can be VERY smart) dont always have the emotional maturity needed to make that leap to acknowledge they can do something. They can feel trapped and worthless. And while you agree its pointless to discuss that no one DESERVES to be bullied i think its pointless to discuss "All kids should do a Rocky come back and pep themselves up to stand up to constant abuse on a daily basis" because some just lack the emotional strength. They are kids.

The part i bolded i feel is the best solution. Im going to teach my son these things:

Bullies are a minority. The people who want a nice safe society for all outnumber those who revel in the suffering of others.

If you REMIND bullies they are a minority by encouraging decent people to take action the bully has NO other option but to stop. No bully can fight 30 people at once. Or hope to do anything at all. Strength in numbers is basically how society works. People who hate murder outnumber those who dont. Rules are enforced by consensus and you should remind your kid that banding together with other people who suffer is a good idea.

 

[Yopaz]

I disagree. Violence solves things, quite a few things actually.

Well you and I have had different experiences there it seems. I have tried violence as a solution to some of the bullying I have face in the past. The result was that I would just get ganged up on rather have one person against me. So the chance of getting beaten by one ended with me being beaten by 4 persons.

I have also seen people who have actually managed to beat up their bully and get into all kinds of problems because of it. Some getting off with a suspension and some getting a criminal record which made it all but impossible to get a job even decades afterwards.

Even if you have had positive results by turning to violence be aware of the possibility that it might not solve your problems. Your experiences aren't universal facts.

I was being a smartarse to your comment of "Violence solves Nothing" in the most general sense.

Actually, if you were to check the post you originally quoted and this post you might spot that I wasn't the one who said that violence solves nothing. I was simply pointing out that advising violence as a solution is pretty stupid.

I did not advise that violence is the solution. I just said that violence was a solution to my issue. It is also the answer to other issues outside of bullying. MMA fighting for example. It is the solution to that job.

Saying violence was the answer to your problem is as much as advising someone to use violence as saying "I advise you to use violence" even if you care to admit it or not. Oh, also did you really think it was necessary to come up with another smart ass comment about fighting as a career choice? Well, at least that comment made me realize how stupid I was to ever try having a reasonable discussion with you.

 

[ClockworkPenguin]

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Spoiler

So basically; 'I stopped being sad and started being awesome.' Sure thing there tough guy. Say, you know what's even less fucking helpful then churning out the same old platitudes of 'tell a teacher/just ignore it'? Giving out condescending and victim blaming platitudes like 'jus stand up fur yurself HURR DURR' as if the concept of throwing a fucking punch back at them would never have dawned on them had you not imparted this slice of fucking genius. You can have all the confidence/gusto/perseverance/courage/heart of the cards you like and try to take them on; but at the end of the day, if you're outnumbered or the aggressor in question is simply bigger and stronger, then you're quite simply going to get your ass handed to you no matter how fervently you fight back. Some kids just aren't cut out to solve their problems with their fits and in this day and age they shouldn't fucking well need to and you're being extremely myopic or extremely disingenuous to think that merely putting up a fight in and of itself is somehow going to magically resolve the issue. As others have pointed out, even if you do come out on top in an altercation there's still the looming prospect of the bully coming back with more of his friends and possibly brandishing weapons or you could end up getting in trouble with the school just for acting in self defense. I'm talking solely about physical bullying here, the other side of things gets kind of complicated and I'll admit forthright I have no idea what to suggest there, but standing up for yourself in a fight is fairly fucking self evident; that advice is hardly a revelation for people and it isn't necessarily going to solve their problem, circumstances vary from person to person and the solution for your problem may not apply and could in fact only exacerbate matters. I'm not going to pretend that I have any decent answers for this either, I never really experienced any kind of routine physical abuse so I don't know what state of mind that would leave me in or how to surmount this kind of problem, but this line of self-aggrandising victim blaming bullshit isn't going to do anything to improve their confidence, it's just adding insult to injury. Literally.

My post wasn't personal, for me or anyone else. Standing up for yourself is an internal thing as well as a physical one. I'd never blame someone for fighting back against a bully, but the culture of victimization surrounding bullying makes the bullied kids feel worse about themselves because they were never taught the tools or skills to cope with being hurt by other people- and I don't mean in terms of fighting. The bullies have every right to be blamed, but the only ones who can stop the bullied from slipping into depression is the bullied kid him/herself; in a perfect world we wouldn't have to teach kids to have internal confidence in their individuality because it wouldn't be threatened by other people, but it is challenged by others, and our kids need to know how to handle bullying instead of disempowering them.

And who gives them these skills if they don't first seek help. The answers wont magic into their brains. No problems in life are a binary between going it alone and getting someone else to sort it out for you.

Its a truth that life will throw shit at you. But the people who survive it best aren't the toughest or the most bad-ass. They are the people with the firmest support network of friends and advisor's, who help give you the strength and resources to deal with it.

I was able to deal with bullying much better after I started seeing the school councillor. She taught me the skills to deal with all that shit. But if I never went for help in the first place, I would never have been equipped with the emotional tools to actually do so.

 

[Kmadden2004]

I seriously hope the OP doesn't have any children, because they'd make a terrible parent.

Standing up for the bullies and acting like it's some Darwinist rite of passage is the most lunk-headed, idiotic, bullshit stance to take here. Bullying is an act of sadism, there is no defending it.

And putting the blame on the victim is possibly the most unhelpful, offensive response you could possibly go with. Do not sit there and say that it's their fault because a pack of malicious pricks decide to make it their personal project to make that person's life a living hell just for their personal amusement.

Equally, don't sit there and say that it's my fault I was off and on anti-depressants and anti-anxiety medication all through my teenage life, and don't claim that it's my fault I was driven into a mental breakdown at the age of 16. Telling a victim of bullying to "man up" is tantamount to telling somebody with a broken leg to "walk it off".

The kind of bullying that you're talking about, the kind that leads kids to self-harm and suicide, is not the kind that you can "settle in the park later that night" (yeah, like you're some Jimmy Dean persona). It is like water torture, it's a constant erosion of any and every shred of self-esteem and self-worth over the course of a number of days, weeks, months and years. The human psyche, especially at such a delicate period in its development, can only take so much. And when you're in the same situation that I was in at a boarding school, where the bullies have access to you 24 hours a day, seven days a week, trust me; that kind of bullying fucks with your head.

I'd wager the real reason why you see fit to put so much blame on the victim is because, at the end of the day, it just means you don't need to do anything about it. Your complacency makes you just as culpable as the bullies.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

snip.

Well I was bullied constantly in school and when I went home my Dad would make our lives hell so...I'm sorry but not everything is as super easy as you point out. I can say that if it wasn't for video games I would probably be dead now.

I have PTSD and anxiety disorder now. That's something that isn't curable. So telling kids just to deal with it is pretty irresponsible. Bullying is mental and physical abuse we wouldn't put up with an adult doing it to a child so why are we okay with children doing it to other children.

It's the bullies we should be punishing not the children we should be telling 'put up and shut up'. It's nothing but victim blaming.

 

[NinjaDeathSlap]

You know what i don't get with bullying and suicides resulting from it: if you've stopped fearing death and started pondering suicide why not use that lack of fear of death to stand up for yourself? I mean really, death scares the shit out of me and if i were ever bullied that would probably be the reason why i would avoid settling things with fists (sometimes fists kill). But if i wouldn't fear death oh god i'd have myself a joy standing up for myself until the bitter end. Just think about it: if the beating ends up killing you, what did you lose? Nothing because you would have committed suicide anyway. However in this case the a-hole who bullied you would get his rightful punishment because he would be charged with manslaughter. (it might be a milder sentence since you fought too but he'll most likely won't get away as easily as when you commit suicide) And, the more likely scenario, if you don't end up dead odds are people will start respecting you more because you stood up for yourself and suicide might not even be "needed" (it's never needed but some people apparently think it is) anymore because the bullying would stop or decrease.

Suicide as a consequence of bullying is the most silly and illogical concept ever.

Now on bullying in general. Is it ever acceptable? No. But it is part of life just like getting mugged in dodgy neighborhoods. And as such we should both hunt down the culprits (bullies and thieves in my analogy) but also teach people to protect themselves from those culprits (in case of bullies: to stand up for yourself, seek help or be bigger than the aholes and in the analogy: avoid those neighborhoods). I actually fear that by putting so much attention on the culprits we start forgetting to actually teach the victims to deal with those issues.

> Trying to apply logic (well, I say logic...) to someone who's been tormented to the point of suicidal tendencies.

Well there's you problem!

Also, while I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you're not advocating murder as an alternative to suicide, what you just said veers creepily close to the sort of mentality that drives school-shootings. 'Well, I want to die anyway, I might as well go out in a blaze of glory and make all my bullies pay for their crimes.'

 

[StBishop]

Phoebe Prince couldn't "Deal with it" but she didn't tell anyone and took her own life.
Why should anyone being hard done have to just "deal with it" and the people who are described as "Just dealing with it" are often the ones who commit suicide.

Telling a teacher is standing up for yourself, just not in a way your familiar with, in fact actually telling someone about it is a bravery in its self because its a very sensitive issue. So much bullying goes on because most students are under the impression that nobody cares, that it doesn't matter, or that they should "just deal with it" especially males which is why Irish males between 18-24 Have the highest suicide rate in the country

If the media does anything with its huge pumping out of bullying material i hope its at least the students become more open with telling someone about their problems and people, especially teachers, become more sensitive to the issue rather than sweeping it under the rug.

This whole concept of machismo in the face of a bulling is outdated and when the idea is shared by the elders who the young rely on it the concept perpetuates

I think you have the impression OP is suggesting people "suck it up" or "harden the fuck up". I don't think that's what they're suggesting at all. I think they're suggesting you confront your bullies and actually deal with the problem rather than ignore it or tell a teacher.

I totally agree with OP. Ignoring bullies never works in highschool. Ignoring people who're being silly does, but people who dislike you and want to hurt you (any harm, not just physical) doesn't work.

Confrontation isn't always best, but it's a damn sight better than ignoring it.

Telling a teacher never worked for anyone when I was at highschool. I like to think that's changed a bit as older teachers retire and the younger generations move into teaching, but it's not assured.

I think that dealing with bullies (in a direct manner) is a much better option than telling or ignoring.

That said, I don't think bullying needs to be downplayed. If my child is a bully I will ruin their social life entirely to the point they with they'd been bullied. It's a despicable act and I don't think enough parents are willing to accept that their child is a bully, and thus, most under-react.

 

[mgirl]

You know what i don't get with bullying and suicides resulting from it: if you've stopped fearing death and started pondering suicide why not use that lack of fear of death to stand up for yourself?

Suicidal thoughts does not equate to no longer fearing death. In instances of bullying, I'd imagine it's about escaping the torment, having such low self worth that the costs of suicide is outweighed by the benefits, in the mind of the individual that is.

 

[klown]

I think the media hypes certain parts of the bullying, while forgetting to mention that pretty much everyone has bullied someone in their life. As someone who moved to an American high school from a different Country, I was able to look at things from an outside point of view. The ones who were bullied in turn bullied others, who then bullied other people.

I agree that it needs to stop though, while I was always a big person and always looked menacing so no one really made fun of me in anyway, not everyone has that. I think the punishment needs to be harsher. I'm pretty sure a bully would stop if the punishment was forceful and swift.